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"ease" of Easy Language isn't worth the limitations
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"ease" of Easy Language isn't worth the limitations

  #1 (permalink)
Fortitudo et Honor
Austin, TX
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: TradeStation
Favorite Futures: Futures
Posts: 882 since Mar 2011
Thanks: 128 given, 710 received

"ease" of Easy Language isn't worth the limitations

I've had it. I'm completely regretting going with TS and EL.

Any pain and suffering that might have been endured learning C (vs EL) is miniscule compared to the pain and suffering caused by having to do tireless workarounds (both in code and modifying my strategies to fit EL/TS capabilities).

If you set aside the backtesting frustrations, which are endless. Limited tick data (6 months) for advanced bar types. You cannot backtest with a whole pluarality of strategy limitations (intrabarordergeneration, intrabarpersist, dll, etc).....it's still a giant PITA.

I'm trying to simply reference values from one chart and use the signals in execution on another chart. Same symbol...nothing fancy or elaborate or out of the realm of "normal" trading strategies. In essence, I'm trying to automate using multi-time frame analysis.

Discretionary traders do this all the time. You look at price action and signals from one chart to verify what's ongoing in another time frame. (i.e. something as simple as gaining trend information from a large time frame to taylor your trade entries on a shorter time frame).

You'd think this would be simple? And it is.......but wait, there's a catch. In order to do this "inherently" using the TS built in functions....1) You can only trade off one chart....it only takes entry/exit signals from the first data series. 2) and more importantly, you can't backtest. WTF!

Issue one isn't THAT big of a deal, but let's say you want to use 3 different time frames....a long, intermediate and short length chart of the same symbol. Let's say your entry criteria is a fundamental change on the "lower" time frame. That might sometimes happen on the intermediate chart (signaling an entry on the long chart) or sometimes it might happen on the short chart (signaling an entry on the intermediate chart).

But wait you say, you can run strategies on the same symbol on different charts.....and the answer would be...yes you can...but it comes with another TS limitation...."Note when this option is selected, the strategy will not perform the usual position checks before placing an order and the position match value WILL NOT be used to determine if the order is place." Again....WTF! In essence, you can do it, at your own peril, if the two strategies happen to want a piece of action at the same time, there's no guarantee that you won't get multiple order entries (or opposing cancellations)...etc.

I can't even run a simple OCO (order cancels order) bracket without using a gawd awful macro. Or let me clarify, you CAN, but it comes with all sorts of TS limitations....you can do it, but not IOG, it has to be end of bar, and it can't update more than 15 seconds apart.
Simulate and trade live at the same time....nope. Can't do that. Have to pay for an additional data stream and run a totally separate platform. Awesome.

I have to admit, at first I thought, hey, this EasyLanguage stuff isn't so bad.....

But that's what they don't tell you. It's not so bad if all you want to do is stand in front of your computer with a club and grunt when a new bar opens and you want to buy something and groan when that bar closes and you want to sell it back. God forbid you want to backtest something more advanced than that.

At the end of my rant, I'll close by saying, chances are if you're reading this...you'd already made your decision...but if you're just starting out.....and you've mistakenly selected EL/TS, get out now. RUN!

I realize some others (like Ninja) have reliability issues, but that's getting better. I gladly accept the complexity of C over EL at this point, at least I don't have to change my strategies in order to fit the platform limitations.

Can anyone point me in the direction of some "translators" that convert ELD's into Ninja code? Or thinkscript or whatever. I'm seriously contemplating switching.

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  #2 (permalink)
 Vendor: www.jigsawtrading.com 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: MultiCharts.NET, S5, Ninj
Broker/Data: AMP, S5, IB
Favorite Futures: ES
DionysusToast's Avatar
Posts: 2,860 since Nov 2010
Thanks: 788 given, 9,818 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary

I totally agree - it's why I left. I feel your pain.

I can get depth, I can get inside bid/ask, I can get every trade BUT I can't match any of this up as they are all in separate feeds that are not synchronised.

I miss some of the features of TS but Ninja is a better platform for extending in my opinion. It just takes non 'OO' programmers a bit of reading up to get acclimatised to the concepts.

If you are making the transition from TS -> Ninja, feel free to ask me questions. In fact, might not be a bad idea to have a thread about it.


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  #3 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
New Zealand
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Mac OS X
Broker/Data: MB Trading/AMP/LMAX
Favorite Futures: SL-1210 M5G
Posts: 72 since Jun 2011
Thanks: 2 given, 32 received

Many of the problems you describe were the reasons why Multicharts was created.

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  #4 (permalink)
Fortitudo et Honor
Austin, TX
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: TradeStation
Favorite Futures: Futures
Posts: 882 since Mar 2011
Thanks: 128 given, 710 received

Thanks guys,

I forgot to mention....TS doesn't offer a "trial" period...another lovely issue. So you have to spend 6 months paying fees without actually trading in order to decide if it's for you or not.

Do either MC or Ninja brokers offer a "trial" period?

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  #5 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
New Zealand
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Mac OS X
Broker/Data: MB Trading/AMP/LMAX
Favorite Futures: SL-1210 M5G
Posts: 72 since Jun 2011
Thanks: 2 given, 32 received

MC offers a trial and a free version as well.

The free version has no autotrading or power language editing functionality, including not being able to import custom indicators built by others.

The best thing to do at this stage if you want to try MC is download the MC DT, see if you like the interface, etc. Once you are happy sign up for the trial.

Best way to describe powerlanguage is that it is an extension of easylanguage. You should be able to import much of your existing code and make it work with a few changes.

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  #6 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Favorite Futures: E-mini ES S&P 500
Big Mike's Avatar
Posts: 46,581 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 29,660 given, 85,195 received

MultiCharts was created from ground up as an autotrading solution. You might check it out.


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