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Does time have meaning as price is trending or turning? Tick vs Min candles
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Does time have meaning as price is trending or turning? Tick vs Min candles

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Does time have meaning as price is trending or turning? Tick vs Min candles

Does time have meaning as price is trending or turning? I ask this because I typically use tick charts for the ES and avoid minute charts. The rise and fall of price makes much more sense to me, they are a less erratic with a burst of volume, and charts are more sensible. You will see a series of candles that are building, you will not see one huge long candle comprising the same one minute or five munute price change event. But it seems like NOT having time incorporated in some way will discard a valuable piece of evidence.

I do not want to confine this idea to only Tick, there are others with a lot of merit, but I do not have my head fully wrapped around them yet.

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JohnPS View Post
Does time have meaning as price is trending or turning? I ask this because I typically use tick charts for the ES and avoid minute charts. The rise and fall of price makes much more sense to me, they are a less erratic with a burst of volume, and charts are more sensible. You will see a series of candles that are building, you will not see one huge long candle comprising the same one minute or five munute price change event. But it seems like NOT having time incorporated in some way will discard a valuable piece of evidence.

I do not want to confine this idea to only Tick, there are others with a lot of merit, but I do not have my head fully wrapped around them yet.


That would include Range bars?

I trade on range bars because I do not like dealing with the sudden long bar. CL can go a LONG way in 5 minutes.

I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
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Range bars - Yes. An other example of a non-time based price movement.

Would there be more value in this data it time were added back in somehow?

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Time does not move markets (although time passes as markets move). Mass and velocity is what's important, I have found time to be irrelevant in intraday trading. I use daily charts (or higher) for long term trends and interday trading though.

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JohnPS View Post
Range bars - Yes. An other example of a non-time based price movement.

Would there be more value in this data it time were added back in somehow?

Yes. Sharp, i.e. quick price moves, especially against the trend, are often corrected...I try to fade them. I like both range and time bars and am thinking of having both chart types of one symbol on my screen.

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JohnPS View Post

Would there be more value in this data it time were added back in somehow?

Probably depends on the type of trading you do. There's an Inverted Time Histogram indicator on the NT forums; you could try adding that to your chart and seeing for yourself how it works. In my experience using it with CV Bars pretty much duplicates displaying a volume histogram beneath time-based bars.

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futuretrader View Post
Probably depends on the type of trading you do. There's an Inverted Time Histogram indicator on the NT forums; you could try adding that to your chart and seeing for yourself how it works. In my experience using it with CV Bars pretty much duplicates displaying a volume histogram beneath time-based bars.

Type of trading?
Intraday, scalping mostly, holding a trade for 1 minute to 60 minutes.

Inverted Time Histogram - and the rest?
FutureTrader, I looked and came up empty handed on this, could you possibly post this? I will set up a chart as you have described.

The goal is to un-mask the intention of the Market, non-time based charts can show price movement as it occurs where time based charts mask this somewhat if the interval is large enough to contain the price move.

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Yes. Sharp, i.e. quick price moves, especially against the trend, are often corrected...I try to fade them. I like both range and time bars and am thinking of having both chart types of one symbol on my screen.

OK I tried this idea and it is interesting, not sure this is what you had imagined. In the lower portion I have the ES twice on one chart, one as 4 range and one as 120 sec. The vol histogram on the bottom is tied to the 120 sec chart, the upper portion I have the ES 4 Range again, but because it is by itself the candles are evenly distributed across the chart. I have time markers showing the disparities. The upper 4 Range chart describes trends with less noise.

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JohnPS View Post
Does time have meaning as price is trending or turning? I ask this because I typically use tick charts for the ES and avoid minute charts...

Your perception and trading will take a new dimension when you take into account three things: price, volume and time and the overall concept of value which act as the binding force for all these three elements. In my opinion, you should not underestimate the importantce of value in trading. Value is the core concept behind any trade. It is the motivating force behind all transactions. Many traders have no idea where past and present developing value is or when responsive or initiating activity is more likely to kick in. So a good question at this stage would be how do we identify or determine value in the market ? This way you would evacuate such question as to know whether or not a tick, range or time chart is the way to go to see where value is.

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