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Order Management
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Order Management

  #1 (permalink)
Elite Member
Boston, MA
Trading Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: IB
Favorite Futures: EUR/USD
Posts: 42 since Apr 2010
Thanks: 1 given, 3 received

Order Management

I algo trade using NT and the algo that I use has 5 entry orders with a profit target for each entry order. Five in five out. However, I've come to realize that my commissions are really taking a bite out of my returns. Is there any way to enter with 1 large lot and scale out with 5 different smaller lots? 1 in 5 out? Thanks.

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  #3 (permalink)
Elite Member
Trading Experience: Advanced
Platform: NT
revtrader's Avatar
Posts: 57 since Jul 2009
Thanks: 177 given, 43 received


If you are trading futures, I do not know any broker that offers the commission structure you want. The commission are based on 1/2 of the commission PER contract when you enter the trade and the other 1/2 of the commission PER contract when you exit the trade. So if you are trading 5 contracts - it will be 5 in and it will be 5 out. Many brokers will negotiate lower commissions based on the volume of contracts you trade on a monthly basis. However, if you find a broker that will accommodate your desired commission structure please let us know. I for one would be very interested if a broker would offer this structure.

I cannot comment on trading forex, options or stocks as I do not trade those markets.

Happy Trading.

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  #4 (permalink)
Elite Member
Boston, MA
Trading Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: IB
Favorite Futures: EUR/USD
Posts: 42 since Apr 2010
Thanks: 1 given, 3 received

Order Management

I've now come to realize that what I want to do is accomplished through unmanaged orders. Once you turn your orders to unmanaged = true, then you can submit your orders the way you want. I trade forex and I have been submitting 5 entry orders so that I could attach 5 profit targets. However, given that I am placing 10 - 12 trades a day, the commission really eat into my profit. Now I just have to learn the nuances of unmanaged orders. Any help out there would be highly appreciated.

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  #5 (permalink)
Elite Member
Dartmouth NS
Trading Experience: Intermediate
Platform: MC, MC.Net, NT, TWS
Broker/Data: IB / IQFeed / Kids
Favorite Futures: Forex, stocks
bnichols's Avatar
Posts: 638 since Feb 2010
Thanks: 64 given, 460 received

If I understand the question correctly, with IB as far as I know there's no way to reduce the Forex commission by restructuring the trade since commission applies to what traders tend to consider execution quantity.

Whether you buy/sell 250,000 units all at once or in 5 installments of 50,000 units the commission is the same. In other words we pay at least minimum commission upon entering a trade and upon exit, no matter how we enter or exit.

Specifically, for monthly trade amounts < USD $1 billion, when IB states that commission is " (0.2 basis point) * (trade value) with a minimum of USD $2.50", the word "trade" in the phrase "trade value" refers to sale/purchase of the quote currency and purchase/sale of the base currency of a given currency pair and applies the commission to the transaction.

Therefore as far as I know there are only 2 ways to reduce the commission burden with IB; namely,

1. avoid entry / exit quantities less than 50,000 units (number of units corresponding to the $2.50 minimum commission)

2. trade more than $1 billion / month for the 25% discount, which depending on our circumstances may not be as much of a stretch as it might seem. In concrete terms this amounts more or less to moving an average 50 million units a day, or 25-50 executions involving 1 - 2 million units each. In terms of in/out currency day trades this means 13 trades of 2 million units each or 26 trades of 1 million units each, which even with IB's relatively low leverage ought to be accessible to an experienced, active retail trader with a $50,000 account.

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