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Charts: tick vs time ??


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Charts: tick vs time ??

  #11 (permalink)
 
MWinfrey's Avatar
 MWinfrey 
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The problem i see in using timebased bars is that entry at barclose can be so many times at the end of a move. However, I like the idea of timebased charts specifically 5 minute, but take the entry intrabar when the previous bar hi/lo is taken out. See my thread or AR01's thread at .

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  #12 (permalink)
 
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DionysusToast View Post
I use compressed tick charts. By compressed I mean a chart that is zoomed out to where you can't easily identify each candle but you can easily identify each swing. A 300 tick for the ES and a 100 tick for the NQ 'squashed up' is what I use to see where the market has been. To be honest, I could use any chart as long as it shows all the swings.

I do also occasionally peek at the 5 min chart. I use this specifically to look for 'textbook' setups that will pull retail traders into positions. For instance, a move up and then a candle with a long tail at the top. I will them use DOM/T&S to see if the sellers that buy into the reversal are mostly retail and if there are signs of false bids on the ask and icebergs on the offer. If I see this, I'll go long.

So the idea is to see all of the action but not have any focus on any specific bar but rather to keep an overall view on the day unfolding. Then keep a 5 min chart open to see if you can fade trapped traders.

I have used the compressed tick or volume charts as well but never came to terms with their use. I like their look because you get a sense of the waves that price is truly making. Very little hidden from view but again, I just never came to terms with their use.

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  #13 (permalink)
 fusion 
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DionysusToast View Post
I use compressed tick charts. By compressed I mean a chart that is zoomed out to where you can't easily identify each candle but you can easily identify each swing. A 300 tick for the ES and a 100 tick for the NQ 'squashed up' is what I use to see where the market has been. To be honest, I could use any chart as long as it shows all the swings.

I do also occasionally peek at the 5 min chart. I use this specifically to look for 'textbook' setups that will pull retail traders into positions. For instance, a move up and then a candle with a long tail at the top. I will them use DOM/T&S to see if the sellers that buy into the reversal are mostly retail and if there are signs of false bids on the ask and icebergs on the offer. If I see this, I'll go long.

So the idea is to see all of the action but not have any focus on any specific bar but rather to keep an overall view on the day unfolding. Then keep a 5 min chart open to see if you can fade trapped traders.

DionysusToast,

Thank you for the post. Could you provide a screen shot of signs of false bids on the ask and icebergs on the offer? TIA

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  #14 (permalink)
 uexkuell 
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DionysusToast View Post
...I will them use DOM/T&S to see if the sellers that buy into the reversal are mostly retail ...

How do you spot retail in DOM/T&S?

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  #15 (permalink)
 
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fusion View Post
DionysusToast,

Thank you for the post. Could you provide a screen shot of signs of false bids on the ask and icebergs on the offer? TIA

It would need to be a recording, not a screen shot as it's changes over time that you need to see.

An explanation will probably do though.

Icebergs : Let's consider the NQ as icebergs are easy to spot there. Let's say you have 50 contracts on the inside bid, then you see 30 trades come in, then another 10 come in, then another 20 come in and STILL you have ~50 contracts on the inside bid - this is a sign there's an iceberg order there. As trades come into the level, the amount of contracts bid doesn't reduce despite trades hitting the bid.

Fake bids : Much easier. Look 2 or 3 levels away from the inside bid/ask for large numbers of contracts. As price moves to that level, the contracts get pulled, the quantity reduces rapidly without many (or any contracts hitting it).


uexkuell View Post
How do you spot retail in DOM/T&S?

Small trades vs large trades. Someone that puts in a 500 lot order on the ES is not a retail player. Similarly - someone that puts through a 1 lot order at the high of the day more than likely is a retail player. Of course, you need to read up on the CME tick reporting changes that occured in 2009 to get a handle on how to do this. It's easier on non-CME markets that still report the old way.

There's a video here - [COLOR=#800080]http://www.screencast.com/t/MZC6QytRnY[/COLOR] - that explains the CME changes.

Pete

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  #16 (permalink)
 uexkuell 
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DionysusToast View Post
... someone that puts through a 1 lot order at the high of the day more than likely is a retail player.

Two problems with this statement:

- How can you know in realtime (not in hindsight) that we are at the day's high?

- Today big "smart" orders are split up into small chunks as we all know and as the link you cited (see below) extensively explains again. Therefore a 1 lot order can very well be placed by an algo no matter if we are in the middle or at an extreme of the day.



DionysusToast View Post
There's a video here - [COLOR=#800080]http://www.screencast.com/t/MZC6QytRnY[/COLOR] - that explains the CME changes.


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uexkuell View Post
Two problems with this statement:

- How can you know in realtime (not in hindsight) that we are at the day's high?

- Today big "smart" orders are split up into small chunks as we all know and as the link you cited (see below) extensively explains again. Therefore a 1 lot order can very well be placed by an algo no matter if we are in the middle or at an extreme of the day.

1- we are at todays high when we are trading at higher prices than we have traded so far today

2 - Bot/CME split orders can be re-assembled. You just need to have the smarts to do it. Seriously.

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  #18 (permalink)
 uexkuell 
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DionysusToast View Post
Bot/CME split orders can be re-assembled. You just need to have the smarts to do it. Seriously.

Care to give a hint on how this could be achieved?

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uexkuell View Post
Care to give a hint on how this could be achieved?

Let me be totally honest with you. I am currently involved in a commercial venture and one of the products does this.

I'd prefer not to be promoting this on the trading forums as I enjoy participating on them and I don't want (or see the need) to be using forums as a means of commercial gain. There's enough scammers on the forums already - although futures.io (formerly BMT) seems to have very few. I'd rather not be considered as one, rather my very few customers will know me as a supplier of niche products.

Let's just say that if I worked it out - anyone can.

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DionysusToast View Post
Let me be totally honest with you. I am currently involved in a commercial venture and one of the products does this.

I'd prefer not to be promoting this on the trading forums as I enjoy participating on them and I don't want (or see the need) to be using forums as a means of commercial gain. There's enough scammers on the forums already - although futures.io (formerly BMT) seems to have very few. I'd rather not be considered as one, rather my very few customers will know me as a supplier of niche products.

Let's just say that if I worked it out - anyone can.

ouch!!! that's was a big mistake.

I bet you'll be flooded with pm's. at least I can hear your inbox screaming for help.

anyway I don't know about re-assembling split orders, but your thinking makes a lot of sense.

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