Charts: tick vs time ?? - Traders Hideout | futures io social day trading
futures io futures trading


Charts: tick vs time ??
Updated: Views / Replies:7,065 / 24
Created: by abaker Attachments:1

Welcome to futures io.

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

futures io is the largest futures trading community on the planet, with over 90,000 members. At futures io, our goal has always been and always will be to create a friendly, positive, forward-thinking community where members can openly share and discuss everything the world of trading has to offer. The community is one of the friendliest you will find on any subject, with members going out of their way to help others. Some of the primary differences between futures io and other trading sites revolve around the standards of our community. Those standards include a code of conduct for our members, as well as extremely high standards that govern which partners we do business with, and which products or services we recommend to our members.

At futures io, our focus is on quality education. No hype, gimmicks, or secret sauce. The truth is: trading is hard. To succeed, you need to surround yourself with the right support system, educational content, and trading mentors Ė all of which you can find on futures io, utilizing our social trading environment.

With futures io, you can find honest trading reviews on brokers, trading rooms, indicator packages, trading strategies, and much more. Our trading review process is highly moderated to ensure that only genuine users are allowed, so you donít need to worry about fake reviews.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading sites:
  • We are here to help. Just let us know what you need.
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive in our community.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, we can help you find it.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.

You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

Reply
 1  
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 

Charts: tick vs time ??

  #11 (permalink)
Elite Member
Lubbock TX
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: Stage 5 Trading
Favorite Futures: CL
 
MWinfrey's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,879 since Jul 2009
Thanks: 1,449 given, 3,306 received

The problem i see in using timebased bars is that entry at barclose can be so many times at the end of a move. However, I like the idea of timebased charts specifically 5 minute, but take the entry intrabar when the previous bar hi/lo is taken out. See my thread https://futures.io/elite-group-trading-methods/8035-mwinfreys-5-minute-odyssey.html#post94262 or AR01's thread at https://futures.io/elite-trading-journals/4795-ar01-our-journey.html#post52526.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to MWinfrey for this post:
 
  #12 (permalink)
Elite Member
Lubbock TX
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: Stage 5 Trading
Favorite Futures: CL
 
MWinfrey's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,879 since Jul 2009
Thanks: 1,449 given, 3,306 received


DionysusToast View Post
I use compressed tick charts. By compressed I mean a chart that is zoomed out to where you can't easily identify each candle but you can easily identify each swing. A 300 tick for the ES and a 100 tick for the NQ 'squashed up' is what I use to see where the market has been. To be honest, I could use any chart as long as it shows all the swings.

I do also occasionally peek at the 5 min chart. I use this specifically to look for 'textbook' setups that will pull retail traders into positions. For instance, a move up and then a candle with a long tail at the top. I will them use DOM/T&S to see if the sellers that buy into the reversal are mostly retail and if there are signs of false bids on the ask and icebergs on the offer. If I see this, I'll go long.

So the idea is to see all of the action but not have any focus on any specific bar but rather to keep an overall view on the day unfolding. Then keep a 5 min chart open to see if you can fade trapped traders.

I have used the compressed tick or volume charts as well but never came to terms with their use. I like their look because you get a sense of the waves that price is truly making. Very little hidden from view but again, I just never came to terms with their use.

Reply With Quote
 
  #13 (permalink)
Elite Member
East Coast
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader,
Favorite Futures: es
 
Posts: 83 since Aug 2010
Thanks: 272 given, 24 received

Iceberg



DionysusToast View Post
I use compressed tick charts. By compressed I mean a chart that is zoomed out to where you can't easily identify each candle but you can easily identify each swing. A 300 tick for the ES and a 100 tick for the NQ 'squashed up' is what I use to see where the market has been. To be honest, I could use any chart as long as it shows all the swings.

I do also occasionally peek at the 5 min chart. I use this specifically to look for 'textbook' setups that will pull retail traders into positions. For instance, a move up and then a candle with a long tail at the top. I will them use DOM/T&S to see if the sellers that buy into the reversal are mostly retail and if there are signs of false bids on the ask and icebergs on the offer. If I see this, I'll go long.

So the idea is to see all of the action but not have any focus on any specific bar but rather to keep an overall view on the day unfolding. Then keep a 5 min chart open to see if you can fade trapped traders.

DionysusToast,

Thank you for the post. Could you provide a screen shot of signs of false bids on the ask and icebergs on the offer? TIA

Reply With Quote
 
  #14 (permalink)
Elite Member
Pt Vala
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Proprietary
Favorite Futures: CL, EUR, DAX
 
Posts: 58 since Apr 2010
Thanks: 12 given, 30 received


DionysusToast View Post
...I will them use DOM/T&S to see if the sellers that buy into the reversal are mostly retail ...

How do you spot retail in DOM/T&S?

Reply With Quote
 
  #15 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Bangkok
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: MultiCharts.NET, S5, Ninj
Broker/Data: AMP, S5, IB
Favorite Futures: ES
 
DionysusToast's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,668 since Nov 2010
Thanks: 776 given, 8,721 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary


fusion View Post
DionysusToast,

Thank you for the post. Could you provide a screen shot of signs of false bids on the ask and icebergs on the offer? TIA

It would need to be a recording, not a screen shot as it's changes over time that you need to see.

An explanation will probably do though.

Icebergs : Let's consider the NQ as icebergs are easy to spot there. Let's say you have 50 contracts on the inside bid, then you see 30 trades come in, then another 10 come in, then another 20 come in and STILL you have ~50 contracts on the inside bid - this is a sign there's an iceberg order there. As trades come into the level, the amount of contracts bid doesn't reduce despite trades hitting the bid.

Fake bids : Much easier. Look 2 or 3 levels away from the inside bid/ask for large numbers of contracts. As price moves to that level, the contracts get pulled, the quantity reduces rapidly without many (or any contracts hitting it).


uexkuell View Post
How do you spot retail in DOM/T&S?

Small trades vs large trades. Someone that puts in a 500 lot order on the ES is not a retail player. Similarly - someone that puts through a 1 lot order at the high of the day more than likely is a retail player. Of course, you need to read up on the CME tick reporting changes that occured in 2009 to get a handle on how to do this. It's easier on non-CME markets that still report the old way.

There's a video here - http://www.screencast.com/t/MZC6QytRnY - that explains the CME changes.

Pete

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to DionysusToast for this post:
 
  #16 (permalink)
Elite Member
Pt Vala
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Proprietary
Favorite Futures: CL, EUR, DAX
 
Posts: 58 since Apr 2010
Thanks: 12 given, 30 received


DionysusToast View Post
... someone that puts through a 1 lot order at the high of the day more than likely is a retail player.

Two problems with this statement:

- How can you know in realtime (not in hindsight) that we are at the day's high?

- Today big "smart" orders are split up into small chunks as we all know and as the link you cited (see below) extensively explains again. Therefore a 1 lot order can very well be placed by an algo no matter if we are in the middle or at an extreme of the day.



DionysusToast View Post
There's a video here - http://www.screencast.com/t/MZC6QytRnY - that explains the CME changes.


Reply With Quote
 
  #17 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Bangkok
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: MultiCharts.NET, S5, Ninj
Broker/Data: AMP, S5, IB
Favorite Futures: ES
 
DionysusToast's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,668 since Nov 2010
Thanks: 776 given, 8,721 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary


uexkuell View Post
Two problems with this statement:

- How can you know in realtime (not in hindsight) that we are at the day's high?

- Today big "smart" orders are split up into small chunks as we all know and as the link you cited (see below) extensively explains again. Therefore a 1 lot order can very well be placed by an algo no matter if we are in the middle or at an extreme of the day.

1- we are at todays high when we are trading at higher prices than we have traded so far today

2 - Bot/CME split orders can be re-assembled. You just need to have the smarts to do it. Seriously.

Reply With Quote
 
  #18 (permalink)
Elite Member
Pt Vala
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Proprietary
Favorite Futures: CL, EUR, DAX
 
Posts: 58 since Apr 2010
Thanks: 12 given, 30 received


DionysusToast View Post
Bot/CME split orders can be re-assembled. You just need to have the smarts to do it. Seriously.

Care to give a hint on how this could be achieved?

Reply With Quote
 
  #19 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Bangkok
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: MultiCharts.NET, S5, Ninj
Broker/Data: AMP, S5, IB
Favorite Futures: ES
 
DionysusToast's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,668 since Nov 2010
Thanks: 776 given, 8,721 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary


uexkuell View Post
Care to give a hint on how this could be achieved?

Let me be totally honest with you. I am currently involved in a commercial venture and one of the products does this.

I'd prefer not to be promoting this on the trading forums as I enjoy participating on them and I don't want (or see the need) to be using forums as a means of commercial gain. There's enough scammers on the forums already - although futures.io (formerly BMT) seems to have very few. I'd rather not be considered as one, rather my very few customers will know me as a supplier of niche products.

Let's just say that if I worked it out - anyone can.

Reply With Quote
 
  #20 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Columbus, OH
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: NT 8, TOS
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Silvester17's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,332 since Aug 2009
Thanks: 4,579 given, 10,313 received



DionysusToast View Post
Let me be totally honest with you. I am currently involved in a commercial venture and one of the products does this.

I'd prefer not to be promoting this on the trading forums as I enjoy participating on them and I don't want (or see the need) to be using forums as a means of commercial gain. There's enough scammers on the forums already - although futures.io (formerly BMT) seems to have very few. I'd rather not be considered as one, rather my very few customers will know me as a supplier of niche products.

Let's just say that if I worked it out - anyone can.

ouch!!! that's was a big mistake.

I bet you'll be flooded with pm's. at least I can hear your inbox screaming for help.

anyway I don't know about re-assembling split orders, but your thinking makes a lot of sense.

Reply With Quote

Reply



futures io > > > Charts: tick vs time ??

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)

Linda Bradford Raschke: Reading The Tape

Elite only

Adam Grimes: TBA

Elite only

NinjaTrader: TBA

January

Ran Aroussi: TBA

Elite only
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
NinjaTrader tick charts for Scalping the 6E Euro TickTrader Currency Futures 5 October 15th, 2011 10:27 AM
Is the 6E 12.50 a tick? Best time to trade it Texas time? skyfly Currency Futures 7 August 7th, 2011 10:49 AM
Tick Charts For Swing Trading? srgtroy Traders Hideout 5 July 8th, 2011 02:10 PM
Renko charts on non-tick data? Xyzzy Platforms and Indicators 4 June 1st, 2011 09:47 PM
Tick charts question martifc Traders Hideout 3 January 21st, 2011 12:43 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:57 PM.

Copyright © 2017 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts
Page generated 2017-12-11 in 0.16 seconds with 40 queries on phoenix via your IP 54.145.16.43