Automated trading on VPS - Traders Hideout | futures io social day trading
futures io futures trading


Automated trading on VPS
Updated: Views / Replies:40,406 / 90
Created: by edgefirst Attachments:4

Welcome to futures io.

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

futures io is the largest futures trading community on the planet, with over 90,000 members. At futures io, our goal has always been and always will be to create a friendly, positive, forward-thinking community where members can openly share and discuss everything the world of trading has to offer. The community is one of the friendliest you will find on any subject, with members going out of their way to help others. Some of the primary differences between futures io and other trading sites revolve around the standards of our community. Those standards include a code of conduct for our members, as well as extremely high standards that govern which partners we do business with, and which products or services we recommend to our members.

At futures io, our focus is on quality education. No hype, gimmicks, or secret sauce. The truth is: trading is hard. To succeed, you need to surround yourself with the right support system, educational content, and trading mentors Ė all of which you can find on futures io, utilizing our social trading environment.

With futures io, you can find honest trading reviews on brokers, trading rooms, indicator packages, trading strategies, and much more. Our trading review process is highly moderated to ensure that only genuine users are allowed, so you donít need to worry about fake reviews.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading sites:
  • We are here to help. Just let us know what you need.
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive in our community.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, we can help you find it.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.

You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

Reply
 4  
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 

Automated trading on VPS

  #71 (permalink)
Elite Member
Houston,Tx
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: Mirus Futures/Zen-Fire
Favorite Futures: TF
 
ThatManFromTexas's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,302 since Feb 2010
Thanks: 1,208 given, 4,293 received


sam028 View Post
@ThatManFromTexas and @RM99, don't you want to try one of my VPS ?
I will have free slots next week, testing 1 or 2 weeks won't cost you anything, and if you use later another commercial solution, you'll have something to compare with.

@sam028

I'm interested, but please clarify something for me;

I discretionary trade. My goal is to have a more secure connection to ZenFire so that I don't get "Connection Lost" even though I still have internet connection.

From reading this thread it sounds like the remote setup wouldn't really benefit me that much.

Am I not understanding this correctly?

With remote I would use my local computer to logon to the remote system and operate Ninja trader from the remote?

Would there be lag time between My computer and the remote setup watching the chart?

I trade on one chart.

I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
Reply With Quote
 
  #72 (permalink)
Administrator: Retired Backtester
 Vendor: speedytradingservers.com 
Rennes France
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: IB/Kinetick
Favorite Futures: Futures
 
sam028's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,366 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 3,572 given, 3,982 received


ThatManFromTexas View Post
@sam028

I'm interested, but please clarify something for me;

I discretionary trade. My goal is to have a more secure connection to ZenFire so that I don't get "Connection Lost" even though I still have internet connection.

From reading this thread it sounds like the remote setup wouldn't really benefit me that much.

Am I not understanding this correctly?

With remote I would use my local computer to logon to the remote system and operate Ninja trader from the remote?

Would there be lag time between My computer and the remote setup watching the chart?

I trade on one chart.

The probability to have a "Connection Lost" with a machine which is using a secured and redundant network is much smaller than with a computer with a retail Internet connection.
I won't say it never happen, because it can happen, but it's not frequent. The Battle of the Bots runs on one of these VPS, and I had 2 or 3 "Connection Lost" when I was using a ZF feed (in 4 months, NT up 24/7). These last two weeks, with a Rithmic data feed given by @mattz from Optimus, I had no "Connection Lost" (only during the week-end I think).

When you use Remote Desktop, your home computer is just a smart terminal, only used to display the remote screen, and sending mouse/keyboard signals to the remote computer.

You will have lag from your computer and the VPS, but honestly (and I don't say that because you're very very old and very very slow ), it's very hard to "feel" a difference between your own computer and the remote one. Well, this what I see with my own VPS, and I'm far away from it (4500 miles, >150ms). I'll make a quick video and post it later.

But if you trade with only one chart, you don't need a very powerful machine, or being <2ms from CME/NYSE, you need a good Internet provider!

Success requires no deodorant! (Sun Tzu)
Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to sam028 for this post:
 
  #73 (permalink)
Elite Member
Houston,Tx
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: Mirus Futures/Zen-Fire
Favorite Futures: TF
 
ThatManFromTexas's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,302 since Feb 2010
Thanks: 1,208 given, 4,293 received



sam028 View Post
The probability to have a "Connection Lost" with a machine which is using a secured and redundant network is much smaller than with a computer with a retail Internet connection.
I won't say it never happen, because it can happen, but it's not frequent. The Battle of the Bots runs on one of these VPS, and I had 2 or 3 "Connection Lost" when I was using a ZF feed (in 4 months, NT up 24/7). These last two weeks, with a Rithmic data feed given by @mattz from Optimus, I had no "Connection Lost" (only during the week-end I think).

When you use Remote Desktop, your home computer is just a smart terminal, only used to display the remote screen, and sending mouse/keyboard signals to the remote computer.

You will have lag from your computer and the VPS, but honestly (and I don't say that because you're very very old and very very slow ), it's very hard to "feel" a difference between your own computer and the remote one. Well, this what I see with my own VPS, and I'm far away from it (4500 miles, >150ms). I'll make a quick video and post it later.

But if you trade with only one chart, you don't need a very powerful machine, or being <2ms from CME/NYSE, you need a good Internet provider!

OK, make sure I understand this.

Are you saying the way I trade doesn't really justify using a remote setup if I can eliminate the "Connection Lost" problem? Because that was what I got from reading the other posts. The problem is, I don't know what causes the "Connection Lost" issue. I have DSL and cable , with a Cisco (Lynsys) dual broadband router that does auto fail over from one broadband to the other. If that actually happened I would still lose my connection to Zenfire and have to reconnect, even though I never really lost internet connection. But I seldom ever lose my internet connection. Just my connection to Zenfire.

In a nutshell, given the way I trade, does it make sense to use a remote setup? If so please answer the following. If not, thank you for your help!

With my computer acting as a terminal to your remote site;

When I click to send an order, I'm sending some databit that triggers your system to actually send the order to the exchange and there is not a connection between me and ZenFire?

Right now when I get "Connection Lost" my internet connection is still working, I lose connection to ZenFire. Using your system , I would be connected to you and you would be connected to ZenFire. Would my connection to you be as fragile as my present connection to ZenFire?

If I were to get disconnected from you, how would I know if the order was sent?

Is there any chance of me getting disconnected from you, I call the trade desk and they don't show an order pending and then your system transmitting the order?

Sorry if this seems like trite questions but... actually.. I am very old and very slow... and that's why I make it a point to pin you young "Whipper Snappers" down on a point so you don't hood wink me...

I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to ThatManFromTexas for this post:
 
  #74 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Favorite Futures: E-mini ES S&P 500
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 46,238 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 29,350 given, 83,221 received

Advantages for discretionary traders mainly include:
- ability to have a separate computer with your trading stuff
- log in from anywhere in the world, home, office, whatever
- runs 24/7
- fastest internet connection without colo at exchange for 100x the price

For people who turn their computers off daily, or share their computer with kids/spouse, this can be a big plus. Or even if you have a slow computer, using the remote server is a big plus in speed then - although if you are just charting you won't really see this.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

Reply With Quote
The following 5 users say Thank You to Big Mike for this post:
 
  #75 (permalink)
Elite Member
Houston,Tx
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: Mirus Futures/Zen-Fire
Favorite Futures: TF
 
ThatManFromTexas's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,302 since Feb 2010
Thanks: 1,208 given, 4,293 received


Big Mike View Post
Advantages for discretionary traders mainly include:
- ability to have a separate computer with your trading stuff
- log in from anywhere in the world, home, office, whatever
- runs 24/7
- fastest internet connection without colo at exchange for 100x the price

For people who turn their computers off daily, or share their computer with kids/spouse, this can be a big plus. Or even if you have a slow computer, using the remote server is a big plus in speed then - although if you are just charting you won't really see this.

Mike

@Big Mike

Thanks for the response.

My main concern is not having to worry about losing connection to Zenfire.

When everything is working properly, it's great. I haven't had a problem with speed or fills. It's the constant worry when in the middle of a trade I will lose connection with ZenFire. My internet connection stays up even when I get "Connection Lost".

Are you saying my connection to a remote system would not be as fragile as my connection to Zenfire is now?

If that's the case, and I don't see a reduction in speed due to getting info to and from the remote system, this could be very helpful.

Thanks.

I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
Reply With Quote
 
  #76 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Favorite Futures: E-mini ES S&P 500
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 46,238 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 29,350 given, 83,221 received

If your internet connection is flaky, then you'll still be flaky with a VPS. What I mean is if when you lose Zen Fire you also lose Google, CNN, futures.io (formerly BMT), etc -- can't access anything -- then you won't be able to access the VPS, either.

But if you only lose zen fire, and google is fine, then it is either a problem on ZF side or its the route between you and them. A VPS will minimize this because the route between ZF and the VPS, both being in chicago, is much closer/simpler.

If you are in the middle of a trade on your local computer (no vps) and you lose zen fire, your OCO's won't work.

If you are in the middle of a trade via the VPS, and you lose your internet connection locally (no google, nothing) then you won't be able to get to the VPS --- but the OCO's will still work, because the VPS is still up and running just fine without you.

Hope that clarifies.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to Big Mike for this post:
 
  #77 (permalink)
Administrator: Retired Backtester
 Vendor: speedytradingservers.com 
Rennes France
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: IB/Kinetick
Favorite Futures: Futures
 
sam028's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,366 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 3,572 given, 3,982 received


ThatManFromTexas View Post
OK, make sure I understand this.

Are you saying the way I trade doesn't really justify using a remote setup if I can eliminate the "Connection Lost" problem? Because that was what I got from reading the other posts. The problem is, I don't know what causes the "Connection Lost" issue. I have DSL and cable , with a Cisco (Lynsys) dual broadband router that does auto fail over from one broadband to the other. If that actually happened I would still lose my connection to Zenfire and have to reconnect, even though I never really lost internet connection. But I seldom ever lose my internet connection. Just my connection to Zenfire.

Yes, in your case, eliminate the "Connection Lost" is the best solution.


Quoting 
In a nutshell, given the way I trade, does it make sense to use a remote setup? If so please answer the following. If not, thank you for your help!

With my computer acting as a terminal to your remote site;

When I click to send an order, I'm sending some databit that triggers your system to actually send the order to the exchange and there is not a connection between me and ZenFire?

Yes, RDP only between you and the VPS, no ZenFire.


Quoting 
Right now when I get "Connection Lost" my internet connection is still working, I lose connection to ZenFire. Using your system , I would be connected to you and you would be connected to ZenFire. Would my connection to you be as fragile as my present connection to ZenFire?

If you still be able to connect to Internet, I presume it will not be fragile.

Quoting 
If I were to get disconnected from you, how would I know if the order was sent?

You don't know, unless your Internet connection is back again, or if you call your broker (it's different with a Strategy, where you can send information to a cell phone, SMS or email).

Quoting 
Is there any chance of me getting disconnected from you, I call the trade desk and they don't show an order pending and then your system transmitting the order?

No, I don't see how it can be possible.

Quoting 

Sorry if this seems like trite questions but... actually.. I am very old and very slow... and that's why I make it a point to pin you young "Whipper Snappers" down on a point so you don't hood wink me...


Success requires no deodorant! (Sun Tzu)
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to sam028 for this post:
 
  #78 (permalink)
Elite Member
Las Cruces, NM
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Tradestation, NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: TradeStation, Mirus/ZenFire
Favorite Futures: NG, Gold
 
Posts: 22 since Sep 2009
Thanks: 150 given, 53 received


RM99 View Post
I had the same problem TMFT, where if I lost connection for more than 10 seconds or so, it would dump all my data for simming (so I had to CONSTANTLY save). If I lost connection for more than 30 seconds or so, it would totally log me out of my platform.

Even for a discretionary guy, with the trade desk on speed dial, it would be pretty harrowing to fly blind in the middle of a trade position until you log back in to see what's what...even if it's a couple of minutes. Of course you can always leave your stops on the trade server, but still.

I checked out cloud, but it seemed like every company I called, said "we don't really do that" when I described to them what I wanted....a simple machine connected to the internet with a reliable power/connection that I could access remotely.

If someone finds a cloud server that runs flawlessly for less than $70/month, I'm all ears.

RM99, I use TradeStation and I understand what you are talking about. Having a VPS or cloud located in a data center would give you a faster and more reliable internet connection to TradeStation servers.

You probably called the sales department and got that kind of reply. However, using clouds to run applications like TradeStation and NinjaTrader is not how people typically use the servers--99.9% of their clients, I guess, are using these for web hosting. I would not be surprised when they said "we don't really do that", but what they really meant was that they are not sure if the clouds can do what you want them to do. Yes, they can.

Go with Amazon AWS and choose a Windows 2008 image in a "m.small" instance, it won't cost your more than 70 bucks a month and you get 1.6GB of RAM. If you go with their reserved instance plan, it would only cost you 5 cents an hour when you are using it. Don't forget to generate an Elastic IP and associate with your server instance--won't cost anything but you get a static IP which means more reliable connection.


Last edited by edgefirst; May 21st, 2011 at 10:16 AM.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to edgefirst for this post:
 
  #79 (permalink)
Elite Member
Las Cruces, NM
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Tradestation, NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: TradeStation, Mirus/ZenFire
Favorite Futures: NG, Gold
 
Posts: 22 since Sep 2009
Thanks: 150 given, 53 received

ThatManFromTexas, I have taken courses in computer networks and I will try to answer your first question.


Quoting 
Are you saying the way I trade doesn't really justify using a remote setup if I can eliminate the "Connection Lost" problem? Because that was what I got from reading the other posts. The problem is, I don't know what causes the "Connection Lost" issue. I have DSL and cable , with a Cisco (Lynsys) dual broadband router that does auto fail over from one broadband to the other. If that actually happened I would still lose my connection to Zenfire and have to reconnect, even though I never really lost internet connection. But I seldom ever lose my internet connection. Just my connection to Zenfire.

Yes, when we use our internet connections at home for web browsing and emailing, we usually feel that we never lose the connection but in fact, that can happen for a multitude of reasons--congestion in the route, server too busy, etc. However, the internet is designed to cope with these problems. Your network traffic would try to find a different route, or the web site can balance the load of its servers so that if one server is too busy (heavily loaded), the traffic would be directed to less busy servers. All these happen without the users even noticing it.

I have no definitive answer to why we get "Connection Lost" to ZenFire servers unless I have done an investigation. The most probable reason I can think of is that when ZenFire servers send price data to your PC, they use a protocol called UDP which is different from TCP that is used when you are browsing the web and checking emails. UDP is commonly used where one server is "broadcasting" to thousands of users, which is exactly the case with market data servers. The most important difference between these two protocols is that UDP is one-directional, meaning that the ZenFire server does not know whether your PC has received the data. It is like sending mail to someone and not requiring a receipt. If data is lost in the transmission, the ZenFire server would not know about it, and the NinjaTrader application running on your PC may have doubt but cannot be sure, until a certain period of time (usually a few seconds) has passed without any incoming data. Then NinjaTrader would flag a "Connection Lost" event and re-initiate a data request to the server.

I am not 100% sure this is what would have happened during a ZenFire "Connection Lost" but this is my best guess based on my knowledge.


If you connect to a remote server, and run NinjaTrader on that server, your connection to the server is using TCP and the ZenFire data server would still use UDP to send price data to your remote server. You would still get disconnections, but it might occur less frequently than it would when you connect directly to ZenFire.

By the way, since you are connecting to ZenFire, you would want to locate your server close to where ZenFire servers are. It may not be in Chicago so you might want to check with the company. I know TradeStation data servers are located in a few different places (Texas, Florida, and other locations).


Last edited by edgefirst; May 21st, 2011 at 07:53 PM.
Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to edgefirst for this post:
 
  #80 (permalink)
Elite Member
Las Cruces, NM
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Tradestation, NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: TradeStation, Mirus/ZenFire
Favorite Futures: NG, Gold
 
Posts: 22 since Sep 2009
Thanks: 150 given, 53 received



Big Mike View Post
If your internet connection is flaky, then you'll still be flaky with a VPS. What I mean is if when you lose Zen Fire you also lose Google, CNN, futures.io (formerly BMT), etc -- can't access anything -- then you won't be able to access the VPS, either.

In our city we have DSL and Cable Modem. I have used both and I strongly recommend Cable Modem. DSL technology uses telephone lines, which are not built for transmission of high-frequency signals. On the contrary, cables are designed to transmit high-frequency TV signals, which is 1000x higher than signal frequency for phone lines. Cable wires are much thicker and better shielded against ambient noise than telephone wires. The cable connection is more reliable and consistent.


Quoting 
But if you only lose zen fire, and google is fine, then it is either a problem on ZF side or its the route between you and them. A VPS will minimize this because the route between ZF and the VPS, both being in chicago, is much closer/simpler.

You want to be closer to where ZenFire servers are. It may not be Chicago.



Quoting 
If you are in the middle of a trade on your local computer (no vps) and you lose zen fire, your OCO's won't work.

Just checked: it is true if you use NinjaTrader because OCO's are managed on your local PC (or the remote server if you run Ninja on that server).

If you use IB or TradeStation, OCO's are managed on their servers, which means if you send an OCO (e.g., stoploss + profit target) to their servers, the order will remain effective even if you are disconnected (until it expires, or cancelled during a broker reset--not sure if IB or TS do that).


Last edited by edgefirst; May 21st, 2011 at 10:39 AM.
Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to edgefirst for this post:

Reply



futures io > > > Automated trading on VPS

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)

Linda Bradford Raschke: Reading The Tape

Elite only

Adam Grimes: TBA

Elite only

NinjaTrader: TBA

January

Ran Aroussi: TBA

Elite only
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Renko Automated Trading Apig NinjaTrader 4 May 21st, 2015 11:55 AM
automated trading with esignal ALFASSY eSignal 4 July 21st, 2011 02:54 PM
Markets with the Most Automated Trading!!! RJay Traders Hideout 6 April 2nd, 2011 12:02 PM
The allure of automated trading Big Mike Psychology and Money Management 33 March 26th, 2011 11:00 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:35 AM.

Copyright © 2017 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts
Page generated 2017-12-13 in 0.52 seconds with 20 queries on phoenix via your IP 54.226.132.197