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I'm interested, but please clarify something for me;
I discretionary trade. My goal is to have a more secure connection to ZenFire so that I don't get "Connection Lost" even though I still have internet connection.
From reading this thread it sounds like the remote setup wouldn't really benefit me that much.
Am I not understanding this correctly?
With remote I would use my local computer to logon to the remote system and operate Ninja trader from the remote?
Would there be lag time between My computer and the remote setup watching the chart?
I trade on one chart.
I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.
My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
Can you help answer these questions from other members on NexusFi?
The probability to have a "Connection Lost" with a machine which is using a secured and redundant network is much smaller than with a computer with a retail Internet connection.
I won't say it never happen, because it can happen, but it's not frequent. The Battle of the Bots runs on one of these VPS, and I had 2 or 3 "Connection Lost" when I was using a ZF feed (in 4 months, NT up 24/7). These last two weeks, with a Rithmic data feed given by @mattz from Optimus, I had no "Connection Lost" (only during the week-end I think).
When you use Remote Desktop, your home computer is just a smart terminal, only used to display the remote screen, and sending mouse/keyboard signals to the remote computer.
You will have lag from your computer and the VPS, but honestly (and I don't say that because you're very very old and very very slow ), it's very hard to "feel" a difference between your own computer and the remote one. Well, this what I see with my own VPS, and I'm far away from it (4500 miles, >150ms). I'll make a quick video and post it later.
But if you trade with only one chart, you don't need a very powerful machine, or being <2ms from CME/NYSE, you need a good Internet provider!
Are you saying the way I trade doesn't really justify using a remote setup if I can eliminate the "Connection Lost" problem? Because that was what I got from reading the other posts. The problem is, I don't know what causes the "Connection Lost" issue. I have DSL and cable , with a Cisco (Lynsys) dual broadband router that does auto fail over from one broadband to the other. If that actually happened I would still lose my connection to Zenfire and have to reconnect, even though I never really lost internet connection. But I seldom ever lose my internet connection. Just my connection to Zenfire.
In a nutshell, given the way I trade, does it make sense to use a remote setup? If so please answer the following. If not, thank you for your help!
With my computer acting as a terminal to your remote site;
When I click to send an order, I'm sending some databit that triggers your system to actually send the order to the exchange and there is not a connection between me and ZenFire?
Right now when I get "Connection Lost" my internet connection is still working, I lose connection to ZenFire. Using your system , I would be connected to you and you would be connected to ZenFire. Would my connection to you be as fragile as my present connection to ZenFire?
If I were to get disconnected from you, how would I know if the order was sent?
Is there any chance of me getting disconnected from you, I call the trade desk and they don't show an order pending and then your system transmitting the order?
Sorry if this seems like trite questions but... actually.. I am very old and very slow... and that's why I make it a point to pin you young "Whipper Snappers" down on a point so you don't hood wink me...
I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.
My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
Advantages for discretionary traders mainly include:
- ability to have a separate computer with your trading stuff
- log in from anywhere in the world, home, office, whatever
- runs 24/7
- fastest internet connection without colo at exchange for 100x the price
For people who turn their computers off daily, or share their computer with kids/spouse, this can be a big plus. Or even if you have a slow computer, using the remote server is a big plus in speed then - although if you are just charting you won't really see this.
My main concern is not having to worry about losing connection to Zenfire.
When everything is working properly, it's great. I haven't had a problem with speed or fills. It's the constant worry when in the middle of a trade I will lose connection with ZenFire. My internet connection stays up even when I get "Connection Lost".
Are you saying my connection to a remote system would not be as fragile as my connection to Zenfire is now?
If that's the case, and I don't see a reduction in speed due to getting info to and from the remote system, this could be very helpful.
Thanks.
I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.
My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
If your internet connection is flaky, then you'll still be flaky with a VPS. What I mean is if when you lose Zen Fire you also lose Google, CNN, futures.io (formerly BMT), etc -- can't access anything -- then you won't be able to access the VPS, either.
But if you only lose zen fire, and google is fine, then it is either a problem on ZF side or its the route between you and them. A VPS will minimize this because the route between ZF and the VPS, both being in chicago, is much closer/simpler.
If you are in the middle of a trade on your local computer (no vps) and you lose zen fire, your OCO's won't work.
If you are in the middle of a trade via the VPS, and you lose your internet connection locally (no google, nothing) then you won't be able to get to the VPS --- but the OCO's will still work, because the VPS is still up and running just fine without you.
Yes, in your case, eliminate the "Connection Lost" is the best solution.
Yes, RDP only between you and the VPS, no ZenFire.
If you still be able to connect to Internet, I presume it will not be fragile.
You don't know, unless your Internet connection is back again, or if you call your broker (it's different with a Strategy, where you can send information to a cell phone, SMS or email).
RM99, I use TradeStation and I understand what you are talking about. Having a VPS or cloud located in a data center would give you a faster and more reliable internet connection to TradeStation servers.
You probably called the sales department and got that kind of reply. However, using clouds to run applications like TradeStation and NinjaTrader is not how people typically use the servers--99.9% of their clients, I guess, are using these for web hosting. I would not be surprised when they said "we don't really do that", but what they really meant was that they are not sure if the clouds can do what you want them to do. Yes, they can.
Go with Amazon AWS and choose a Windows 2008 image in a "m.small" instance, it won't cost your more than 70 bucks a month and you get 1.6GB of RAM. If you go with their reserved instance plan, it would only cost you 5 cents an hour when you are using it. Don't forget to generate an Elastic IP and associate with your server instance--won't cost anything but you get a static IP which means more reliable connection.
ThatManFromTexas, I have taken courses in computer networks and I will try to answer your first question.
Yes, when we use our internet connections at home for web browsing and emailing, we usually feel that we never lose the connection but in fact, that can happen for a multitude of reasons--congestion in the route, server too busy, etc. However, the internet is designed to cope with these problems. Your network traffic would try to find a different route, or the web site can balance the load of its servers so that if one server is too busy (heavily loaded), the traffic would be directed to less busy servers. All these happen without the users even noticing it.
I have no definitive answer to why we get "Connection Lost" to ZenFire servers unless I have done an investigation. The most probable reason I can think of is that when ZenFire servers send price data to your PC, they use a protocol called UDP which is different from TCP that is used when you are browsing the web and checking emails. UDP is commonly used where one server is "broadcasting" to thousands of users, which is exactly the case with market data servers. The most important difference between these two protocols is that UDP is one-directional, meaning that the ZenFire server does not know whether your PC has received the data. It is like sending mail to someone and not requiring a receipt. If data is lost in the transmission, the ZenFire server would not know about it, and the NinjaTrader application running on your PC may have doubt but cannot be sure, until a certain period of time (usually a few seconds) has passed without any incoming data. Then NinjaTrader would flag a "Connection Lost" event and re-initiate a data request to the server.
I am not 100% sure this is what would have happened during a ZenFire "Connection Lost" but this is my best guess based on my knowledge.
If you connect to a remote server, and run NinjaTrader on that server, your connection to the server is using TCP and the ZenFire data server would still use UDP to send price data to your remote server. You would still get disconnections, but it might occur less frequently than it would when you connect directly to ZenFire.
By the way, since you are connecting to ZenFire, you would want to locate your server close to where ZenFire servers are. It may not be in Chicago so you might want to check with the company. I know TradeStation data servers are located in a few different places (Texas, Florida, and other locations).
In our city we have DSL and Cable Modem. I have used both and I strongly recommend Cable Modem. DSL technology uses telephone lines, which are not built for transmission of high-frequency signals. On the contrary, cables are designed to transmit high-frequency TV signals, which is 1000x higher than signal frequency for phone lines. Cable wires are much thicker and better shielded against ambient noise than telephone wires. The cable connection is more reliable and consistent.
You want to be closer to where ZenFire servers are. It may not be Chicago.
Just checked: it is true if you use NinjaTrader because OCO's are managed on your local PC (or the remote server if you run Ninja on that server).
If you use IB or TradeStation, OCO's are managed on their servers, which means if you send an OCO (e.g., stoploss + profit target) to their servers, the order will remain effective even if you are disconnected (until it expires, or cancelled during a broker reset--not sure if IB or TS do that).
), it's very hard to "feel" a difference between your own computer and the remote one. Well, this what I see with my own VPS, and I'm far away from it (4500 miles, >150ms). I'll make a quick video and post it later.
