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Friendly challenge question to vendors
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Created: by josh Attachments:0

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Friendly challenge question to vendors

  #11 (permalink)
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TradeRunner View Post
Especially as your trading revenue is probably going to be erratic having consistent revenue stream coming in from training would have its advantages.

Why would, or how can, someone who has an erratic revenue stream in their own trading try to help others learn how to have a consistent revenue stream from trading?

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  #12 (permalink)
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bluemele View Post
I think grabbing a few students consistently is easier than grabbing a few points for most traders that have not decided to master their art.

So, given this, would it stand to reason that a large percentage (you said "most") of people selling something trading-system-related can themselves not consistently profit from it? And thus, it would be unwise to buy from "most" vendors?

Let me reiterate, I'm certainly not trying to open fire on vendors here--I think that even if the vendor can't make money from it, that some useful things can be learned. As in all fields, people selling things are what make the world go round. More power to them. I believe 100% in charging money for a valuable service or education, and don't believe that anyone should be expected to give anything away for free. I'm just exploring the logic behind it.

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  #13 (permalink)
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I'm very much sure that it is easier to earn money in teaching how to trade than earning money trading.

I think we can all agree on that part. How many teachers are showing a P&L ? And yes, they are allowed to, if they are just saying : WE are taking this trade, or WE have taken this trade instead of YOU should take this trade.

So the myth that every vendor using to hide themselves that they are not allowed is not true. They can absolutely they just have to say THEY are doing it and not giving advise.

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  #14 (permalink)
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a few thoughts:

- fulfillment of the traders mind, i can imagen that after 12 of 15 years you would like to do something else for lets say: 1 day a week.

- lets say that the vendor is only having 10 great weeks per year where he makes big runs. what to do with the rest of the time?

- status, when you're a teacher of trading i think you get more recognition/ positive response. if that's true then that will go with the fulfillment, cause money can buy much but not all status.

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  #15 (permalink)
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josh View Post
Why would, or how can, someone who has an erratic revenue stream in their own trading try to help others learn how to have a consistent revenue stream from trading?

maybe because there is there is no such thing as a consistent trading revenue stream? You can only take what the market gives you. For example you may be really good at trading during high volatility, so when the volatility dries up then you are not going to be able to make as much. Trying to make a fixed $ amount every day is not going to work. You profits will have peaks and troughs but your mortgage company/utility companies etc doesn't care about that they just want paying every month!

Why does Mike run this site? It must take some of his focus away from trading (and therefore reduce his profits from trading). I would guess that one of the reasons is that it gives him a steady income from advertising and membership payments.

(Perhaps "erratic" was the wrong word to use how about "variable")


Last edited by TradeRunner; February 9th, 2011 at 09:05 AM.
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  #16 (permalink)
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This is a pretty funny story. I promise it is applicable.

Before website forums became really popular, many of us were using a service called Usenet, which is like a web based forum but text only - no pictures. Anyway, one of forums I used to hang out in for digital photography had this dude that...

Remember back when digital photography was really going mainstream. Well, there were seemingly hundreds of "new" digital photography vendors popping up all over the web. Something like 90% of were located in New York (don't get me started) . I swear, it was every week someone would post a message about being ripped off by one of these businesses.

Now, that dude I mentioned earlier got fed up reading all the stories, and did something beautiful. He took his digital camera and drove around town; he was located in New York, and took pictures of these digital photography stores. He slapped the pics up on his website and let them speak for them self. He single handedly put many of them out of business for good and saved thousands of dollars for some happy consumers. Gotta love a happy ending

These aren't the pictures, but believe me, some of them were even worse.
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  #17 (permalink)
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Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

We had a guy in our platoon who was a horrible shot and barely qualified with his issue weapons. He went to the instructor class and still shot incredibly poor. However, when he coached us, all of our shots improved and the amount of expert shots in our platoon increased dramatically.

Perhaps the person selling the system is relying on sheer numbers to make more than he would trading, on a more reliable basis.

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  #18 (permalink)
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There are many reasons that people teach. Sometimes people just like to teach. A good friend of mine was the valedictorian of my class in high school. He had a 1600 SAP and 36 ACT, which are both considered perfect. He got scholarship offers from around the states. When asked what he wanted to do the answer was always the same, "I want to teach high school." He always got the same response, "You could be so much more." That was frustrating to him. Why didn't they think teaching was something important? He was teacher of the year a few years ago in my home state.

My dad had a batting average of .525 his senior year in college and was drafted into major league baseball. He declined. He was playing baseball to get the scholarship to pay for college. His goal was to teach high school and coach a high school baseball team to win the state championships. He won the states in his fourth year coaching high school.

Just a few examples for exceptions to the rule. Some people just have different goals.

Andrew

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  #19 (permalink)
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Obviously, your friend and father have a calling, which is very good! But, we cannot compare trading teachers with other disciplines. Other professions have educational standards which help serve to vet qualified applicants. Trading has none. No credentials, accreditation or educational background required. Every hack or whack gets to swing this bat.

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  #20 (permalink)
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josh View Post
There are so many nice vendors who have answered questions and helped me for free, and I first of all want to say thanks to those who have. Now, on to my question.

Why in the world would someone offer trading training to others? In any field where the potential for return for one's own self is limited (say, an hourly job), then training makes sense. But in trading the potential is virtually unlimited. Why would a vendor charge $100, $1000, or even $1000? Why not just make the money trading?

If I'm a truly successful trader and therefore qualified to train others, then if a trader comes and offers me $10000 to show them my methodology or whatever, why would I do this? $10K? Please, it's in a day's work, and far easier than working with someone new who doesn't know what they're doing.

I'm an educator of sorts, but in my field, the top 10 or so people in the WORLD still make less than $200K per year. My only real option for money is to teach. So, basically, my question to all vendors is this:

IF you are making great money like you say you are, WHY are you selling your methods for a fraction of what you would make in a day?

I agree with you questioning this. It took me a very long time to learn and create a proprietary system that is profitable. The foundation for my system is derived from when I managed money at a few big firms and feel It would be a mistake and disservice to myself to give away what I worked long and hard for (my edge). However, that's just my opinion. I do wonder what the backgrounds are of these vendors selling systems. Did they ever manage money? How did they come up with their system? And why are they giving away their edge?

One important thing to remember about these trading systems. Just because it works for one person doesn't mean it will work for you. Everyone interprets/sees information differently and has their own unique goals and risk tolerances. I will say that it's helpful to work with some sort of mentor or trading partner to discuss your situation and receive feed back when first starting out. I could also see someone that is just starting out to participate in some sort of training room/chat room to learn about the markets, set up's/systems, etc. to establish a general base for understanding the markets and trading them. But I wouldn't recommend staying in them for too long. You wouldn't want to risk becoming reliant upon someone else's analysis of the markets and trade signals. Take what you learn from these rooms or mentors and tweak it to make it your own. Trading is a very self-reliant activity. Only you can make yourself successful as most of trading is cognitive and that is the true hurdle. Not a system. By human nature, we want to find the holy grail of trading which is where a lot of vendors come in. Do you think CTA's and Managed Fund Portfolio Managers are concerned with finding the next best system? But don't get me wrong here, I'm sure there certainly are some out there that do right for their clients. I'm just speaking generally and don't want to see people get ripped off. You can learn a ton about trading just by reading this forum.

Cheers, PB

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