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I only traded the ES a few times. It was to slow for me, I felt bad trading it, couldn't handle staying in a trade for 2 hours before my first target of a few ticks was hit.
The instruments I trade are more active (Dax, Cl, 6e, ...) so I don't have your problem.
Can you help answer these questions from other members on NexusFi?
@jmejedi , the problem of ES is that there are too many orders at every price, so there is a big orders queue, u will be filled when is your turn, and in a queue of 2000 orders, the price have to be touched many time before you got filled.
On other instruments like 6E or Cl or DAX, etc.. there's not a so big orders queue, and your order is filled faster, other than that these instruments are more volatile than ES.
So there are 2 ways to resolve your issue, trading ES using market orders or buying at ask and selling at bid, or changing trading instruments.
Platform: NinjaTrader (It's a love/hate relationship)
Trading: CL, TF, 6E
Posts: 169 since May 2010
Thanks Given: 60
Thanks Received: 314
X_Trader has a feature called "estimated position in queue" or EPIQ. It attempts to count down the contracts filled since you entered your position, minus the contracts added since. It does a pretty good job of showing you how close you are to being filled. Many have asked Ninja to add a feature like this, but I think they are scared of TT since the DOM lawsuit.
ES is a brutal market to trade. I've been trading for 7 years and I won't even attempt to trade it. What you are describing is just one of the reasons why. ES is so liquid that is has become very efficient. There are estimates that 65-85% of the volume on ES is entered by Bots, not humans. ES is the de-facto hedge instrument for many institutions as they don't need to provide margin against other CME instruments. Due to the immense volume, ES is the playground of the arbitrageurs. They will eliminate the inefficiencies that we need in order to profit. ES is simply not volatile enough anymore for me to make the kind of money I need to justify this business. I primarily trade CL and TF because they are on different exchanges.
P.S. - If you're really lucky, you will look back at some point in the future and realize that Michael was right.
Its actually THE most helpful comment you got in here, since everyone's advice told you what happens, instead of you learning on your own. That comment also saved you thousand of dollars in losses if you took it to heart. In all seriousness, you should not be trading live if you can't figure out the basics of bid/ask order flow( if anyone disagrees with that statement, i would LOVE to hear it). It shows you lack experience trading that instrument( notice how im not talking about overall in trading, im not judging you. I know people are delicate to criticism). Trade on sim( one that doesn't immediately fill you once it touches price, ninja does a decent job in simulating this), make money consistently on sim, then trade live.
You guys can makes jokes or make fun of me all you want, but im trying to help. Im just tired of all the negativity that people have, and how they quickly discredit everyone that tries to help. Just because you can't make money trading, doesn't mean you need to project it towards other traders. There'a a wealth of information on this forum if you want to make money, i suggest you start reading before you trade live. I've ultimately decided to keep close contact with a select few who trade live ( some are from this forum who aren't profitable yet, but they show they're very serious about it), and pull back more of my time on this forum. I think i've given alot of good advice, and im tired of the criticism every time i try to help which is why im scaling back my time.
Wish you best of luck, and remember that trading is a process that will probably take many months to years, and you, just like everyone else, are NOT the exception to that rule.
Yeah, yeah, bid, ask, limit, order flow, market depth, yaddy, yaddy, yaddy. I never traded ES, but forget all that, it get's close to your target and stalls out or hits your target and doesn't fill then close that sucker manually. Think about it, you're gonna risk 8+ ticks to make 1 or 2 ticks? It makes no sense.
I am trading ES, YM, TF and sometimes FDAX. Often I question myself, which of these is the appropriate instrument to trade. Each of them has a different character. In my opinion FDAX is very volatile, a bit like crude oil, maybe due to lower liquidity. …
shows you the difference in "slippage" when trading the ES when you get in/out using market orders compared to other instruments.
This is why alot of people are moving away from this instrument.
Remember, slippage is not always associated to illiquid instruments, you get slippage due to extremely high liquid instruments as well, like the ES.
You get in/out usng market orders, at 12.5 per tick, thats $25. going for 2 point target($100), your paying $30 dollars due to slippage including commission.
30/100= 30%
So your giving away 30% of your profit when you dont want to be a "dick for a tick"....
As a result, your expectancy needs to be higher to factor in slippage.
Ill give you another pointer. You can get in using limit, and exit using market, that will "soften" your losses due to slippage. The downside is you will miss some winners.
Another great reason as to why you should do your own homework, and read/learn everything you can from posts on this forum. Just because someone posts something doesn't mean its true and you should take it to heart, you need to check to make sure its valid( another reason you need to be on sim).
After a while, you know which traders know what they're talking about, and which ones aren't.
That first post that fat tails made with the different stats on the link i provided to you is something institutions would probably pay for.... Post like that are the "Holy Grail". I suggest you go on there and hit the thanks button. He's more patient than i am when it comes to the "negativity" i was describing about earlier, which is why he still posts more than i do. You should be very thankfull for that.
