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why doesn't it take me out . . .
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why doesn't it take me out . . .

  #21 (permalink)
Elite Member
las vegas
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
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@Michael.H, I did not intend my post as a personal attack against anyone, and I apologize if you or anyone else took it personally. IMO expectancy can't account for stopping out because your limit order didn't fill, because the assumption is that it will. To anyone else reading this, I simply recommend that you do what makes sense to you.

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  #22 (permalink)
Senior Member
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Michael.H View Post
Ill give you another pointer. You can get in using limit, and exit using market, that will "soften" your losses due to slippage. The downside is you will miss some winners.

Very true, regardless of the market traded. I have my ATS now coded to enter on Limit only and exit at Market. Not perfect, but given the boundries of markets, it's the best way I found so far.

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  #23 (permalink)
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Michael.H View Post
Another great reason as to why you should do your own homework, and read/learn everything you can from posts on this forum. Just because someone posts something doesn't mean its true and you should take it to heart, you need to check to make sure its valid( another reason you need to be on sim).

After a while, you know which traders know what they're talking about, and which ones aren't.

That first post that fat tails made with the different stats on the link i provided to you is something institutions would probably pay for.... Post like that are the "Holy Grail". I suggest you go on there and hit the thanks button. He's more patient than i am when it comes to the "negativity" i was describing about earlier, which is why he still posts more than i do. You should be very thankfull for that.

Michael,

I am always enjoying your posts. Out of all the traders on this forum, I believe yours to typically be the most informative to me from a 'traders' perspective.

I hope you continue to impart wisdom.

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  #24 (permalink)
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It might, it might not. But you omitted something else. You assumed that a newer trader doesn't move his stop to break-even after it goes up 2 ticks, out of fear that it will go back and stop him out. So their account is more like +2,+0,+1, -10.

Trading is a psychological game, nothing else. Once you figure that out, then things start to make sense. Bid/ask, order flow, bla bla bla as you described it.... its just a way to measure it. Thats why i say do your homework. You need to figure out what everyone does, that DOESNT work( meaning they lose money)... Thats it..lol
All this crap about " i spent 10k and after 7 years i can't make money" is just nonsense.

I was a biopsych major( its a mix of psychology and biology).... One of my favorite classes i took then was a graduate level course about social psychology.
The first slide he put up on the first day of class," You are not special"... That may sound mean, but its true.
That was many years ago, but i'll never forget it. Everyone thinks that their different, or their the exception to the rule. Well, if that was true, then trading would really be random, and unprofitable. You can guess where im going with this, so ill leave it at that.

Thanks for the posts, its nice to hear that some poeple listen, which is why i still post. But, again, there's very little else i can give. There just isn't that much to trading. You have to do your homework, and adapt with the market.



vegasfoster View Post
@Michael.H, I did not intend my post as a personal attack against anyone, and I apologize if you or anyone else took it personally. IMO expectancy can't account for stopping out because your limit order didn't fill, because the assumption is that it will. To anyone else reading this, I simply recommend that you do what makes sense to you.


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The following 4 users say Thank You to Michael.H for this post:
 
  #25 (permalink)
Just starting out...
Ill.
 
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aslan View Post
Interesting comment. I assume you mean things are not equal due to latency, ability to pull order quickly, skill, etc. Once two orders are in the queue, they should be treated equally and executed in order. If they aren't, everyone should pack up and stop trading now.

I don't think it's that widely unknown that all orders aren't treated fairly. It's no mystery that hedge funds and other institutions place their servers RIGHT at the exchange. In some cases they plug themselves directly into them. Ask yourself who really drives the price - if you're seeing a big move in the ES and at the same time the Dow is getting a lot of bids away from current price and then they automatically disappear once the market gets there... congrats, you've learned that trading isn't fair.

If you think you're having latency issues... here is an interesting article I think you all will find interesting... might have some problems with rent though.

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  #26 (permalink)
Just starting out...
Ill.
 
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inimical View Post
I don't think it's that widely unknown that all orders aren't treated fairly. It's no mystery that hedge funds and other institutions place their servers RIGHT at the exchange. In some cases they plug themselves directly into them. Ask yourself who really drives the price - if you're seeing a big move in the ES and at the same time the Dow is getting a lot of bids away from current price and then they automatically disappear once the market gets there... congrats, you've learned that trading isn't fair.

If you think you're having latency issues... here is an interesting article I think you all will find interesting... might have some problems with rent though.

Heres the link...

want to trade faster go to antarctica

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  #27 (permalink)
Elite Member
las vegas
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
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I better understand where are you coming from and I was not trying to belittle market delta, order flow, and other similar types of analysis. My intention is to always help people and as I read the thread I did not see any solutions to his problem being presented and that was the solution I wanted to present. Perhaps I did a poor job of emphasizing the point, but I truly believe that letting a trade go from almost hitting your profit target to break even or a full stop out is really bad in many ways. Every situation is different, but if it's sitting on my target and not filling or has tried several times to push past a price point and failed and it's close enough, then l lock it in. In this instance, I was not trying to make any other recommendations in regard to trade management. Hopefully there are no hard feelings.


Michael.H View Post
It might, it might not. But you omitted something else. You assumed that a newer trader doesn't move his stop to break-even after it goes up 2 ticks, out of fear that it will go back and stop him out. So their account is more like +2,+0,+1, -10.

Trading is a psychological game, nothing else. Once you figure that out, then things start to make sense. Bid/ask, order flow, bla bla bla as you described it.... its just a way to measure it. Thats why i say do your homework. You need to figure out what everyone does, that DOESNT work( meaning they lose money)... Thats it..lol
All this crap about " i spent 10k and after 7 years i can't make money" is just nonsense.

I was a biopsych major( its a mix of psychology and biology).... One of my favorite classes i took then was a graduate level course about social psychology.
The first slide he put up on the first day of class," You are not special"... That may sound mean, but its true.
That was many years ago, but i'll never forget it. Everyone thinks that their different, or their the exception to the rule. Well, if that was true, then trading would really be random, and unprofitable. You can guess where im going with this, so ill leave it at that.

Thanks for the posts, its nice to hear that some poeple listen, which is why i still post. But, again, there's very little else i can give. There just isn't that much to trading. You have to do your homework, and adapt with the market.


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  #28 (permalink)
Elite Member
CA
 
Futures Experience: Master
Platform: Marketdelta and Ninja
Broker/Data: Velocity
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Posts: 670 since Apr 2010
Thanks: 64 given, 521 received

There never was

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