Is trading gambling? - Traders Hideout | futures io social day trading
futures io futures trading


Is trading gambling?
Updated: Views / Replies:9,870 / 88
Created: by Big Mike Attachments:1

Welcome to futures io.

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

futures io is the largest futures trading community on the planet, with over 90,000 members. At futures io, our goal has always been and always will be to create a friendly, positive, forward-thinking community where members can openly share and discuss everything the world of trading has to offer. The community is one of the friendliest you will find on any subject, with members going out of their way to help others. Some of the primary differences between futures io and other trading sites revolve around the standards of our community. Those standards include a code of conduct for our members, as well as extremely high standards that govern which partners we do business with, and which products or services we recommend to our members.

At futures io, our focus is on quality education. No hype, gimmicks, or secret sauce. The truth is: trading is hard. To succeed, you need to surround yourself with the right support system, educational content, and trading mentors – all of which you can find on futures io, utilizing our social trading environment.

With futures io, you can find honest trading reviews on brokers, trading rooms, indicator packages, trading strategies, and much more. Our trading review process is highly moderated to ensure that only genuine users are allowed, so you don’t need to worry about fake reviews.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading sites:
  • We are here to help. Just let us know what you need.
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive in our community.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, we can help you find it.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.

You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

View Poll Results: Is Trading Gambling?
Yes 37 33.94%
No 72 66.06%
Voters: 109. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 1  
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 

Is trading gambling?

  #1 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Favorite Futures: E-mini ES S&P 500
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 46,238 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 29,350 given, 83,218 received

Is trading gambling?

Some months ago I posted this poll on the home page:

Please register on futures.io to view futures trading content such as post attachment(s), image(s), and screenshot(s).


So basically 70% believe trading is not gambling, and 30% believe it is.

I am creating this thread for a discussion on the subject. I've also re-created the poll, so you can vote here a second time and we'll see what it looks like this time around.

Is trading gambling?

That is the question. It's interesting to see how trading is perceived by family, friends, strangers... just look at this thread for examples of how negative most people view trading:

https://futures.io/traders-hideout/7362-do-you-admit-being-trader.html

I think it is fair to say that in general, most people view gambling negatively as well. I mean as a profession. If you say that your "job" is to gamble, you'll probably get some frowns. But then there are professional poker players, isn't there job to gamble?

What is different about a professional poker player and a trader?

Some would argue that trading is gambling because when you don't know the outcome of something but "place a bet", you are gambling. When you put an order in the market, you don't know the outcome. You are betting the outcome will be in your favor, by playing the odds. Sounds like gambling.

Some would argue that trading is NOT gambling because a lot of people (myself included) hold the view that when someone says "gambling" they mean placing a bet with very little chance of winning or positive outcome. For instance, I don't like to gamble. When I go to Vegas, I am more interested in seeing the sites and bars, clubs, enjoying a good meal or show, etc. I play the tables but not much and when I do it's not something that gives me a lot of joy.

So I think the answer to the question likely has to do with how you interpret the word gambling. If you, like me, interpret it to more or less mean "place a losing bet", then trading isn't gambling if done correctly. Of course the argument can once again be made that poker isn't gambling if done correctly, either.

So which is it?

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Big Mike for this post:
 
  #2 (permalink)
Quick Summary
Quick Summary Post

Quick Summary is created and edited by users like you... Add FAQ's, Links and other Relevant Information by clicking the edit button in the lower right hand corner of this message.

 
  #3 (permalink)
Elite Member
MIAMI,FL
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: Private
Favorite Futures: Zn,6E,6J
 
sharky's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,060 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 624 given, 3,875 received

hmmm


my 2 cent's, i say the market obey's it's own rules about 80% of the time,so if you have years of pratice and study more than even me i mean you understand the market and understand that when the market does this it will probally do this not will do this but probally do this then i say the other 20% is call it what you want gut,instinct,luck or gambling...sharky

KILLING THE MARKETS DAILY
Reply With Quote
 
  #4 (permalink)
Student Of The Markets
New York
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Charts, TOS
Favorite Futures: E-mini S&P 500
 
Posts: 753 since Aug 2010
Thanks: 448 given, 433 received

Gambling Law & Legal Definition

A person engages in gambling if he stakes or risks something of value upon the outcome of a contest of chance or a future contingent event not under his control or influence, upon an agreement or understanding that he or someone else will receive something of value in the event of a certain outcome. Gambling does not include bona fide business transactions valid under the law of contracts, such as the purchase or sale at a future date of securities or commodities, contracts of indemnity or guaranty and life, health or accident insurance.

I underlined and bold the key reason trading is not gambling IMO. My trades are placed based on my experience, education and what I see not by just randomly place a trade on the fly and take a chance that it will win or not.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to itrade2win for this post:
 
  #5 (permalink)
Elite Member
Wodonga Australia
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT, MT4
Broker/Data: tba
Favorite Futures: tba
 
Linds's Avatar
 
Posts: 290 since Jul 2010
Thanks: 348 given, 277 received

Trading with a confirmed positive expectancy is not gambling
Trading profitably occurs when you trade with a positive expectancy.
You can limit risk and you can maximise gain.
A loss on the races guarantees 100% Loss of amount risked on that bet
A loss on a trade in a validated positive expectant method will (generally-depending on the methodology) be less than 100% of that risked
A win on most positive expectant methods will be more than 100% of that risked

The trick is to arrive at a positive expectant method and many dont ever validate that - are they the 90%?

A trading method with negative expectancy is indeed gambling.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Linds for this post:
 
  #6 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Favorite Futures: E-mini ES S&P 500
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 46,238 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 29,350 given, 83,218 received

Interesting responses so far.

Some people on this forum say that your trading career should be finite, I mean that eventually you will lose so you should quit while you are ahead. All part of the zero sum game theory.

I've never been good at math but I really don't subscribe to that. Sitting aside old age and diminished capacity as an individual --- just like a quarterback that gets older on the field is more prone to injuries and isn't as fast as he once was --- I have a hard time believing that in the end, if you trade long enough, you will eventually lose.

I wish I could remember specifically the users that have made this argument on futures.io (formerly BMT) before, but hopefully they will see this thread.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Big Mike for this post:
 
  #7 (permalink)
Membership Temporarily Revoked
NYC
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: graph paper and pencil
Favorite Futures: harp
 
dutchbookmaker's Avatar
 
Posts: 187 since Dec 2010
Thanks: 9 given, 107 received

If your trades truly have positive expected value then it can only be argued that if you trade long enough you will win, not lose.
A new bar just recently opened near me and it is not like there are a shortage of bars to go to.
Is the owner gambling with the starting capital that has been put up or is the owner running a business?
Surely, the owner must think they have an edge on other people running bars or they would not have bothered.
The reality though is that you probably would get better odds at a roulette table than being able to run a bar at a profit in the long run. Trading is much harder than running a bar.
To view "legit business" as some kind of ATM machine and not huge gambles is foolish IMO. So to me the question really has no meaning to start with. Running a business is gambling.

Reply With Quote
 
  #8 (permalink)
Student Of The Markets
New York
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Charts, TOS
Favorite Futures: E-mini S&P 500
 
Posts: 753 since Aug 2010
Thanks: 448 given, 433 received


dutchbookmaker View Post
If your trades truly have positive expected value then it can only be argued that if you trade long enough you will win, not lose.
A new bar just recently opened near me and it is not like there are a shortage of bars to go to.
Is the owner gambling with the starting capital that has been put up or is the owner running a business?
Surely, the owner must think they have an edge on other people running bars or they would not have bothered.
The reality though is that you probably would get better odds at a roulette table than being able to run a bar at a profit in the long run. Trading is much harder than running a bar.
To view "legit business" as some kind of ATM machine and not huge gambles is foolish IMO. So to me the question really has no meaning to start with. Running a business is gambling.


Running a business is taking on a risk no question about it. I ran a very successful marketing company and then sold it in 2009. Our economic system is built on individuals willing to take risks for the benefit of financial gain. The difference between failure and success in a business entity is a well thought out business or trading plan. In any business trading included, your edge is your experience, education, vision and skills. You can add perseverance and passion to that.

There will always be a difference in opinion with any topic, but what question comes to mind to me regarding this topic is, for those who view trading as gambling. My question is are you admitting that you are a gambler?

For those who are in this business looking to make fast money then yes, I would say they are gambling. But for those who look at trading as their business and who they are then I would say no they are not gambling.

Reply With Quote
 
  #9 (permalink)
Elite Member
Honolulu, Hawaii
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: ATC/TT, AMP/Zen-Fire, AMP/CQG
Favorite Futures: TF
 
bluemele's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,547 since Jun 2010
Thanks: 3,806 given, 2,826 received

Everything we do is a gamble or circumstance w/ risk.

gam·ble   
[gam-buhl] Show IPA
verb, -bled, -bling, noun
–verb (used without object)
1. to play at any game of chance for money or other stakes.
2. to stake or risk money, or anything of value, on the outcome of something involving chance: to gamble on a toss of the dice.
–verb (used with object)
3. to lose or squander by betting (usually fol. by away ): He gambled all his hard-earned money away in one night.
4. to wager or risk (money or something else of value): to gamble one's freedom.
5. to take a chance on; venture; risk: I'm gambling that our new store will be a success.
–noun
6. any matter or thing involving risk or hazardous uncertainty.
7. a venture in a game of chance for stakes, esp. for high stakes.

After all this, does it really matter what we call things or what our perception may be?

Reply With Quote
 
  #10 (permalink)
Membership Revoked
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
 
Posts: 1,081 since May 2010
Thanks: 2,092 given, 595 received


IMHO the question should be :

Are people who are successfully trading for a living the same as people who are successfully gambling for a living ?



...There are many similarities IMHO.

Reply With Quote

Reply



futures io > > > Is trading gambling?

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)

Linda Bradford Raschke: Reading The Tape

Elite only

Adam Grimes: TBA

Elite only

NinjaTrader: TBA

January

Ran Aroussi: TBA

Elite only
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Save The Gambling Bankers zt379 News and Current Events 5 August 23rd, 2011 09:59 AM
Starved Budgets Inspire New Look at Internet Gambling Quick Summary News and Current Events 0 August 14th, 2011 10:30 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:41 AM.

Copyright © 2017 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts
Page generated 2017-12-12 in 0.14 seconds with 21 queries on phoenix via your IP 54.145.51.250