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Scalping costs in Forex vs Futures or Stocks
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Scalping costs in Forex vs Futures or Stocks

  #11 (permalink)
Elite Member
Bala, PA, USA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
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Trankuility View Post
What is the min deposit amount to trade futures? Any brokers you can recommend? I currently use MB Trading (for Forex) with NinjaTrader 7.



I'm positive. I use MB Trading as well. You pay spread + commission. Spread is generally lower than many non-Ecn's, but you definitely pay spread. Usual spread amounts are comparable to Oanda spread.

Who controls the spread on FX, the brokers? So, I can be trading with a cost of 0.5 pips right now, and 3 minutes later on my next trade they are taking 4 pips from me?

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  #12 (permalink)
Breathe the body deep.
California
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: FxTrade/Ninjatrader
Broker/Data: Oanda/MBT
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Trankuility's Avatar
 
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Regarding ECN brokers: The spreads are variable, depending on the market. ECN's don't set the spread. They just match you with other traders who are willing to buy/sell at your price. For that service they charge a commission. You can always see what the spread is using the market analyzer function (with NinjaTrader) or in MBT's platform.

Even though spreads vary moment to moment they usually stay within a tight range, which is usually lower than non-ECN's. It also depends on how you trade. I don't use the DOM feature, level 2, etc. But supposedly if you know how, you can sometimes get 0 spread. From what I understand getting 0 spread on trades isn't something you can do immediately time after time, so scalping with 0 spread at a high frequency isn't doable.

Regarding Market Maker brokers: They charge only spread, no commissions. They set the spread, so it will usually be a fixed amount except in adverse market conditions. Problem is they take the opposite end of your trade. So even though total cost is less then ECN, can you be sure they aren't screwing you somehow?


Last edited by Trankuility; January 10th, 2011 at 11:12 PM.
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  #13 (permalink)
Elite Member
Honolulu, Hawaii
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: ATC/TT, AMP/Zen-Fire, AMP/CQG
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monpere View Post
Who controls the spread on FX, the brokers? So, I can be trading with a cost of 0.5 pips right now, and 3 minutes later on my next trade they are taking 4 pips from me?

Yup!

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  #14 (permalink)
Elite Member
Honolulu, Hawaii
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: ATC/TT, AMP/Zen-Fire, AMP/CQG
Favorite Futures: TF
 
bluemele's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,547 since Jun 2010
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Trankuility View Post
Regarding ECN brokers: The spreads are variable, depending on the market. ECN's don't set the spread. They just match you with other traders who are willing to buy/sell at your price. For that service they charge a commission. You can always see what the spread is using the market analyzer function (with NinjaTrader) or in MBT's platform.

Even though spreads vary moment to moment they usually stay within a tight range, which is usually lower than non-ECN's. It also depends on how you trade. I don't use the DOM feature, level 2, etc. But supposedly if you know how, you can sometimes get 0 spread. From what I understand getting 0 spread on trades isn't something you can do immediately time after time, so scalping with 0 spread at a high frequency isn't doable.

Regarding Market Maker brokers: They charge only spread, no commissions. They set the spread, so it will usually be a fixed amount except in adverse market conditions. Problem is they take the opposite end of your trade. So even though total cost is less then ECN, can you be sure they aren't screwing you somehow?

My understanding or knowledge is that the ECN's are basically just FCM's who have a credit line with other FCM's or basically they get their liquidity from other sources. For example, ATC Brokers gets theirs from FXCM. FXCM probably has several lines opened up with DB and other large FOREX transaction market makers (BANKS, etc..).

Oanda and several others HEDGE every single trade that a customer makes. So, while you are buying, they are buying as well but with another broker but probably at a better spread.

When you are dealing w/ Forex the broker can make all the difference. In my opinion it doesn't matter who the broker is, they will or can cheat you. ATC does it through fills that sure do delay and get filled at a pip or so off on every entry! You will never get your bid/ask you see on the screen or at least I should say it is rare!

If you are with a shite broker, than you will get screwed over and over again.

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  #15 (permalink)
Elite Member
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Futures Experience: Intermediate
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Trankuility View Post
What is the min deposit amount to trade futures? Any brokers you can recommend? I currently use MB Trading (for Forex) with NinjaTrader 7.



I'm positive. I use MB Trading as well. You pay spread + commission. Spread is generally lower than many non-Ecn's, but you definitely pay spread. Usual spread amounts are comparable to Oanda spread.

MB is one of the better brokers.

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  #16 (permalink)
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Dukascopy! Dukascopy! Dukascopy!

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  #17 (permalink)
Elite Member
Germany
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: MT4, StrategyRunner
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I just clicked the Velocity Futures banner at the top of this page, here are some commission examples:

Euro FX Globex (6E) Commissions | Velocity Futures


You'll have to do the maths to see what is cheaper. I doubt that there will be a huge difference compared to MB spot FX although I cannot comment on things such as slippage and liquidity with MB.

InteractiveBrokers is good since you can trade futures and spot FX from one account. Their Spot FX is pretty competitive,too, and execution is fast.

you can check out their spreads here: http://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/main.php

Spreads fluctuate between 0.5 and 1 pip on the EUR/USD and commissions go down to 2 USD per 100k USD round turn if you do lots of volume.

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  #18 (permalink)
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Fullerton, CA
 
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MetalTrade View Post
Dukascopy! Dukascopy! Dukascopy!

Why? Why? Why?

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  #19 (permalink)
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They are like minimum 50% cheaper than any USA forex broker, have very fast fills/stable infrastructure.

And... the only guys I know personally trading forex and earning money are with Dukascopy. They are all Europeans though.

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  #20 (permalink)
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bluemele View Post
Oanda and several others HEDGE every single trade that a customer makes. So, while you are buying, they are buying as well but with another broker but probably at a better spread.

This doesn't sound like a hedge if they are taking the same side. Don't you meant to say they take the opposite side?

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