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Walk the Walk, traders showing their profits and sim/demo
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Walk the Walk, traders showing their profits and sim/demo

  #41 (permalink)
Elite Member
Berlin, Europe
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader, MultiCharts
Broker/Data: Interactive Brokers
Favorite Futures: Keyboard
 
Fat Tails's Avatar
 
Posts: 9,651 since Mar 2010
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tigertrader View Post
Not, if I have my position on beforehand, then it's called self-fulfilling prophecy, or MAP (Mutually Assured Profit).

This confirms the assumption that I made on feedback from knowledge sharing. But this example is not that much about sharing knowledge than playing an oligopoly game. Getting in first is half the profit, getting out first the other half.

Today's move in sugar futures probably made some of the trend followers cry.

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  #42 (permalink)
Elite Member
Germany
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: MT4, StrategyRunner
Favorite Futures: ES,EUR/USD,Oil
 
TheSeeker's Avatar
 
Posts: 123 since Dec 2010
Thanks: 64 given, 65 received

I have been playing with the idea of documenting my performance for others to view myself lately, not to brag or start a signal service in the future, but to make exchange of setups, tricks etc. with other traders easier.

If you could be somewhat sure that I'm a profitable trader, you might be more inclined to share some of your wisdom with me knowing that you could get useful info in return, right ?

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  #43 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Favorite Futures: E-mini ES S&P 500
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 46,238 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 29,350 given, 83,221 received


futures.io (formerly BMT) was (is) built on the pay it forward concept.



It means that as you contribute something positive to the community, it will come back to you and benefit you in the end. It does not mean a 1-to-1 sharing ratio where you only contribute what you get back, or only get back what you contribute.

The more involved you are in the community, the more you help new traders, the more you talk about methods and risk management and money management, psychology, the more you discuss market types, patterns, behaviors, etc etc -- the more you learn about yourself, the more you reinforce your own beliefs or call them into question. This is the fundamental difference between futures.io (formerly BMT) and other sites. Other sites are all about "why should I", futures.io (formerly BMT) is all about "here you go, glad to help".

I encourage you to start your own trading journal here on futures.io (formerly BMT). It will help your trading! And, you can post screen shots and statements there if you like to provide yourself more accountability. Many traders will find this information helpful, sure, but you are posting it for yourself as well.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

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  #44 (permalink)
Membership Revoked
new york
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninjatrader
Broker/Data: mb trading
Favorite Futures: 6e
 
bobbyacim's Avatar
 
Posts: 184 since Feb 2010
Thanks: 598 given, 140 received


TheSeeker View Post
I have been playing with the idea of documenting my performance for others to view myself lately, not to brag or start a signal service in the future, but to make exchange of setups, tricks etc. with other traders easier.

If you could be somewhat sure that I'm a profitable trader, you might be more inclined to share some of your wisdom with me knowing that you could get useful info in return, right ?

Souns like a GREAT idea

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  #45 (permalink)
Elite Member
Germany
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: MT4, StrategyRunner
Favorite Futures: ES,EUR/USD,Oil
 
TheSeeker's Avatar
 
Posts: 123 since Dec 2010
Thanks: 64 given, 65 received

Hello Mike,

I agree with you, the 1-to1 sharing ratio runs counter to the idea of a good discussion forum and it's not my plan to only share with those who are supposedly profitable. After all, I'm still a novice and probably always will be.

I hope to find the time to share sth. useful on futures.io (formerly BMT) in the coming months !










Big Mike View Post
futures.io (formerly BMT) was (is) built on the pay it forward concept.



It means that as you contribute something positive to the community, it will come back to you and benefit you in the end. It does not mean a 1-to-1 sharing ratio where you only contribute what you get back, or only get back what you contribute.

The more involved you are in the community, the more you help new traders, the more you talk about methods and risk management and money management, psychology, the more you discuss market types, patterns, behaviors, etc etc -- the more you learn about yourself, the more you reinforce your own beliefs or call them into question. This is the fundamental difference between futures.io (formerly BMT) and other sites. Other sites are all about "why should I", futures.io (formerly BMT) is all about "here you go, glad to help".

I encourage you to start your own trading journal here on futures.io (formerly BMT). It will help your trading! And, you can post screen shots and statements there if you like to provide yourself more accountability. Many traders will find this information helpful, sure, but you are posting it for yourself as well.

Mike


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  #46 (permalink)
Membership Revoked
new york
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninjatrader
Broker/Data: mb trading
Favorite Futures: 6e
 
bobbyacim's Avatar
 
Posts: 184 since Feb 2010
Thanks: 598 given, 140 received


tigertrader View Post
Hey, while we're at it, why don't we post our tax returns?

The majority of my trading career, my trading was on display, and to a certain degree my P&L was pretty well known. When you are trading in a pit, you spend all day trying to disguise or conceal what your position is, so other traders don't take advantage of that knowledge, but you could see for yourself how big other traders traded, and how they traded.

You could also discern what kind of day they had by simply asking them , " how was your day?" The standard reply for a bad day, (and it's none of your business) was, "at least I got my health." A really good day might elicit, " I killed 'em." Traders rarely divulged to other traders, except for their best buddies, what was their exact P&L... because it wasn't really your business. However, exact P&Ls and even year-ends had a way of becoming known, because clerks always gossiped to other clerks.

Unless, a trader is trying to establish a track record, because he wants to manage OPM, I see no reason why he would want to publish his P&L. It's really nobody's business, except for the I.R.S, and he has nothing to prove to anyone, nor does he owe it to anyone. I think it's the readers responsibility to filter whom and what he wants to read and believe, and whom and what he wants to dismiss.

An alternative to publishing one's P&L would be for Mike to have an incentive based trading contest, where everybody starts with the same amount of money and there is a leadership board, like others have suggested. But if you are a serious and active trader, I don't think you will have the time for such a contest.

This is the only "performance" based endeavor where the supposedly successful people don't want to show proof of their success. mmmmmm, I wonder.....

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  #47 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Favorite Futures: E-mini ES S&P 500
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 46,238 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 29,350 given, 83,221 received


bobbyacim View Post
This is the only "performance" based endeavor where the supposedly successful people don't want to show proof of their success. mmmmmm, I wonder.....

I disagree with your statement. Take a trip to Wall Street or The Hampton's. And, if you truly have a desire to improve your own personal trading, I beg you to please move past this obsession of how much other people make or why they won't share their most intimate details with you online in a public forum.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

Reply With Quote
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  #48 (permalink)
Fortitudo et Honor
Austin, TX
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: TradeStation
Favorite Futures: Futures
 
Posts: 882 since Mar 2011
Thanks: 128 given, 703 received

Sometimes, I wish I had some other strategies to compare performance metrics.

I don't know why, but I still continually search the interweb for terms like "return retracement ratio" and "RINA index" and "total efficiency", "entry efficiency" etc.

Sometimes it's just out of curiosity, but mostly I'm trying to guage if my strategies are above par, below par, etc.

"A dumb man never learns. A smart man learns from his own failure and success. But a wise man learns from the failure and success of others."
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  #49 (permalink)
Fortitudo et Honor
Austin, TX
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: TradeStation
Favorite Futures: Futures
 
Posts: 882 since Mar 2011
Thanks: 128 given, 703 received


Big Mike View Post
I disagree with your statement. Take a trip to Wall Street or The Hampton's. And, if you truly have a desire to improve your own personal trading, I beg you to please move past this obsession of how much other people make or why they won't share their most intimate details with you online in a public forum.

Mike

I think most people realize there's no "upside" in proving themselves on an internet chat forum. Either you believe someone or you don't.

I think that no one is going to lose any sleep if members of an internet chat forum doubt their prowess or sincerety.

Every forum has posers.

I also think a lot of guys on futures.io (formerly BMT) are trying to pay it forward as you said....but are hesitant to divulge intimate details about trading, just because again...even if there's an ounce of downside, there's little to no appreciable upside (of revealing your EXACT strategy/method along with your profits).

I find myself, even being obscure and indirect with my code consultant....even though we have signed agreements of discretion. It's just better the less he knows as far as specifics go.

Who knows, maybe I'm kidding myself....maybe my strategies and ideas aren't worth as much as I think....but if there's even a chance that I'd lose money because others would be camping in my spot.....

I guess the realization we all have to come to is that the "pay it forward" mentality will help on this site and benefit us all in the long run.

However, I also feel like some information that's revealed, and not "earned" through sweat and tears is of little use. Take Bugs journal for example. The guy could be a soothsayer or a swami or just really good. Either way, I find it curious that people keep feeding the animals when it comes to these mysterious numbers he publishes.

I personally would never trade them, even if they were "magical" (which I'm not convinced that they are). Simply for the fact that if I can't learn the underlying principles and how to generate them myself...I'm relying on someone else to make money and if that guy up and dies or moves to antirctica, now I have to go back to my own "systems."

In essence, part of the real value of learning is that you have a much more intimate knowledge of understanding and how to actually apply things when you discover them for yourself (with a little help maybe) vice someone just publishing a profitable approach.

"A dumb man never learns. A smart man learns from his own failure and success. But a wise man learns from the failure and success of others."
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