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Good to see this thread is picking up steam. Evans was the guy who coined springs, upthrust, ice and crossing the creek. I don't think this should be disregarded. It might be my imagination but I would bet Wyckoff would enjoy this analogy. I also have a feeling he would like the Weis Wave as it shows more easily his principle of buying and selling waves. Who knows though. I don't think one needs to be a purist to be successful. Williams contribution of VSA has helped some make good money although it just doesn't click for me.
As for historical charts - it is easy to make a pretty chart and to show after the fact where the trades are. I think DB Phoenix wants us to be wary of a vendor who shows these things as a sign of expertise. I was talking with David Weis the other day and told him - "I'm finding really good trades all the time, just not on the right hand edge of the chart".
Again - not to put words into DB P's mouth but I think we all need to do our own homework and lots of it. No vendor is going to infuse us with the ability to trade. I also think each trader needs to find his own way. I day trade using 1 hour, 5 minute, 1600 tick and 512 tick charts for the Euro futures. I have volume on the time charts and the Weis Wave on the tick charts and it works for me - (meaning I've consistently made some money but not enough to quit my day job). Its basically a Frankenstein approach using elements of Wyckoff, Evans, Weis and Williams. In my mind they are all related and can play nice.
For my learn the progression was as follows:
1) Read Wyckoff, Williams, Evans etc. - basically anything I could get my hands on and didn't cost anything.
2) Annotate historical charts - this evolved into looking at one market and then looking at one market for one period of time every day (Euro from 7 am est to 12 noon)
3) Perform bar by bar walk forwards of my charts which evolved into playbacks
4) Trade EUR/USD micro lots while charting Euro futures
5) Trade Euro Futures - study original materials
Forex is great for learning because you can take tiny position sizes and don't need 25k to open an account. Futures are good for day trading because of the regulations in the US and because of the tax implications. Basically a portion of your earnings get taxed as long-term capital gains even if you day trade with futures.
Now you really did it. You got us all worked up and excited about talking about Wyckoff. I knew you were here for a reason. Bring it on and straighten us up about the true teaching of Wyckoff. There should be a seperate discussion on the Weis Wave, just like there's a seperate discussion about VSA. They may be related, but discussing all of them in the same thread is confusing. Those who justify discussing VSA and Weis in a Wyckoff thread are missing the point of the discussion. Db, you are correct that this thread should find some focus and I've mentioned that several times in the past in this thread that is now approaching 1,000 posts.
Part of the core of the Wyckoff analysis includes the 9 Buying and the 9 Selling tests; of which, include both bar charts with the phase analysis and point and figure charts. Omitting parts of what Wyckoff taught because they are too difficult to understand does not make it a Wyckoff method no matter how much charisma the person has or how many PhDs they have. Db, you are correct and that's why we would like you to stay.
If we start using current charts instead of past chart, we are giving trading advice to others. We could show each other how we anticipate our trades as if we would be doing our own journals in this discussion.
I agree that VSA should be separate but honestly - there is only a few Wyckoff purists in this thread. DB P wants to eliminate springs and upthrusts - the majority of recognized Wyckoff experts learned from SMI which included this material. Also DB P doesn't use point and figure so he can't really help there. Someone like DB P needs to lead this discussion if its going to remain pure and I'm pretty sure he is busy with trading? and TL forums.
Gotcha. I wondered if it had to do with "how" the Forex and Futures markets trade. I don't want to insinuate that any market or instrument is "easy", but it seems like both of those markets are a step closer to a purer form of technical analysis than what has become of equities/options. I myself trade options, but have begun wondering whether there are just too many outlier factors that affect them.
If there's real interest, why not start another thread devoted to reading through and discussing Wyckoff's work, chapter by chapter? That's an approach that works well in other fields.
the retest has less volume than prior low, but since background is still negavie and we haven't got demand or SOS, I will not enter, I need JOC or SOS to prove the background
