...What matters most is an understanding of the forces of demand and supply. It's not about schematics or "laws" or any of the other layers of complexity which have been added for you or by you. It's about a level of simplicity that is foreign to what you're wrestling with... ...And while I agree that what one calls a particular feature, like "shakeouts", is not particularly important, it is absolutely important that the trader understand exactly what buyers and sellers are trying to do so that he may know whether to go along with it or trade counter to it...

...As to terminology and hand tools and power tools and so forth, none of that is really pertinent. What matters most is an understanding of the forces of demand and supply. It's not about schematics or "laws" or any of the other layers of complexity which have been added for you or by you. It's about a level of simplicity that is foreign to what you're wrestling with. Nor does it have much to do with psychology. It has much more to do with learning to trade in real time, not via hindsight charts, "marked-up or otherwise", which I suspect has been your primary mode of instruction.
...

As far as the term Spring goes, it may not be Wyckoff, but it seems to be a useful tool from what I've seen. Maybe Wyckoff had another name for it. I don't know. I do know that I've seen the concept work often and if one has the balls to take a trade at or near that location the risk is at it's minimal with the reward being much greater.

I find it refreshing to see such a comment. It has become quite clear in the past months (at least to me) that hindsight charts should be banned on all forums

Hi @DbPhoenix,

I read your last comment with great interest.. Would you be kind to elaborate on those in bold? Thanks in advance..

Springs and Terminal Shakeouts are a part of Volume Spread Analysis by Tom Williams.

Thank you for your post. It's always nice to feel wanted, though, in this case, I can't help you. I'm neither upset nor annoyed, but you're trying to reconcile a half-dozen different interpretations of something which you have no interest in reading, much less studying. This is a recipe for failure. And while I don't enjoy watching people fail (I've seen plenty in twenty years), there's little to nothing I can do to stop them.

As to terminology and hand tools and power tools and so forth, none of that is really pertinent. What matters most is an understanding of the forces of demand and supply. It's not about schematics or "laws" or any of the other layers of complexity which have been added for you or by you. It's about a level of simplicity that is foreign to what you're wrestling with. Nor does it have much to do with psychology. It has much more to do with learning to trade in real time, not via hindsight charts, "marked-up or otherwise", which I suspect has been your primary mode of instruction.

As regards charts, though, I will point out, even though it's a hindsight chart, that the trader who posted the ES chart earlier could have profited handsomely by applying a knowledge of demand and supply and trend to his chart. This trade had nothing to do with "springs" and shakeouts. In fact, it began long before the subject of shakeouts arose. The first entry was at 0530EST, even if the trader wasn't at his computer (the trades are there whether the trader is or not). The second was at 0900. The third was at 1020. A familiarity with waves and supply lines and the MAEs of retracements (50%) would have kept him in the trade all the way to the bottom. And while I agree that what one calls a particular feature, like "shakeouts", is not particularly important, it is absolutely important that the trader understand exactly what buyers and sellers are trying to do so that he may know whether to go along with it or trade counter to it. The focus on bars which is characteristic of vendors is misplaced as it is of no importance whatsoever.

I do wish you well. You seem to be sincere about all this. Perhaps you will eventually decide to study Wyckoff's own work.

I don't know about terminal shakeouts and never use the term. I thought the term spring came from Bob Evans when he owned Stock Market Institute. I think the terms Ice and creek came from him as well.

As far as hind sight charts go, I would disagree that they are not useful, but I've been wrong before. Is there not value in annotating a chart of what had happened to try and make a determination as to scenarios as to what could happen next?

D

I don't know about terminal shakeouts and never use the term. I thought the term spring came from Bob Evans when he owned Stock Market Institute. I think the terms Ice and creek came from him as well.

As far as hind sight charts go, I would disagree that they are not useful, but I've been wrong before. Is there not value in annotating a chart of what had happened to try and make a determination as to scenarios as to what could happen next?

D