NexusFi: Find Your Edge


Home Menu

 





Wyckoff Trading Method


Discussion in Traders Hideout

Updated
      Top Posters
    1. looks_one David_R with 263 posts (437 thanks)
    2. looks_two Gary Fullett with 190 posts (329 thanks)
    3. looks_3 supermht with 161 posts (171 thanks)
    4. looks_4 StockJock with 124 posts (101 thanks)
      Best Posters
    1. looks_one DbPhoenix with 3.8 thanks per post
    2. looks_two David_R with 1.7 thanks per post
    3. looks_3 Gary Fullett with 1.7 thanks per post
    4. looks_4 supermht with 1.1 thanks per post
    1. trending_up 791,530 views
    2. thumb_up 2,014 thanks given
    3. group 195 followers
    1. forum 1,411 posts
    2. attach_file 699 attachments




 
Search this Thread

Wyckoff Trading Method

  #541 (permalink)
 
Gary Fullett's Avatar
 Gary Fullett   is a Vendor
 
Posts: 214 since Feb 2012
Thanks Given: 85
Thanks Received: 375


StockJock View Post
Gary,

Even with the use of the parallel reverse trend line, do these lines need to be replotted whenever there is larger retracement or slight change of slope in the trend. Or do these lines stay the same whereas the larger retracements and slope changes are then considered overbought or oversold conditions?


Lines are always done to tell you the "story" of the market. When there is a change in the "story", the lines need to change as well. The "story" is price, action, and volume.


Gary

There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures and options. Past performance is not indicative of future results. The opinions expressed here are those of Gary Fullett, and are not to be taken as a recommendation to buy or sell commodity futures or options. This is for educational purposes only.
Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
Thanked by:

Can you help answer these questions
from other members on NexusFi?
Pivot Indicator like the old SwingTemp by Big Mike
NinjaTrader
Better Renko Gaps
The Elite Circle
Cheap historycal L1 data for stocks
Stocks and ETFs
REcommedations for programming help
Sierra Chart
Trend Direction Force Index (TDFI)
Platforms and Indicators
 
  #542 (permalink)
 
Gary Fullett's Avatar
 Gary Fullett   is a Vendor
 
Posts: 214 since Feb 2012
Thanks Given: 85
Thanks Received: 375


StockJock View Post
Gary,

If I'm to watch the chart for the E-Mini NASDAQ 100 Futures, then what do I look for if its not patterns? Aren't up trends, down trends and ranges patterns? Is Price/Volume divergence considered a pattern? The Wyckoff training teaches divergences between the Optimism/Pessimism Index and the Wyckoff Wave, but those indicators aren't available on most trading platforms. Do you use them?

There are also the Trend Barometer, Technometer, Force and Momentum indicators which also are not available in most trading platforms. I never see these discussed in forums with Wyckoff as a topic. I get the impression that they are not necessary.

Anyway, what do I look for in the NASDAQ 100 and what does "leadership" for the S&P 500 spread mean? Should I watch at the 60 and daily S&P 500 or the E-Mini S&P 500 Futures? Do I focus on the Indicies or the Futures? For that matter, in what context are you using the word "spread" for the S&P? I'm familiar with the spread as the difference between the high and low of a price bar. Sometimes "spread" is used when speaking of option trading.

The Trend Barometer, Technometer, Force and Momentum and Optimism/Pessimism, I do not use as they are stock indicators and I don't trade stocks for the most part. These indicators are in the Wyckoff course, and SMI teaches it, but it doesn't really pertain to commodities.

Regarding patterns, what I am referring to is patterns like head-and-shoulders and the various patterns that are taught as classical patterns. So I don't look at head-and-shoulders as a pattern, but I look at it as the testing and retesting process of supply and demand. When you look at a pattern, many times you lose focus of what the market is trying to say. Many times, head-and-shoulders become a self fulfilling prophecy for traders. Like all patterns, sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. Wyckoff's desire was to be more accurate than a pattern.

I look for Nasdaq to be stronger or weaker than the S&P (this is either the emini or S&P 500). The reasoning is two fold. One, the Nasdaq is a broader index than the S&P, and two, it is more speculative in nature. So when traders are more aggressive in the Nasdaq, it will show more leadership.

Gary

There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures and options. Past performance is not indicative of future results. The opinions expressed here are those of Gary Fullett, and are not to be taken as a recommendation to buy or sell commodity futures or options. This is for educational purposes only.
Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #543 (permalink)
 
Gary Fullett's Avatar
 Gary Fullett   is a Vendor
 
Posts: 214 since Feb 2012
Thanks Given: 85
Thanks Received: 375



StockJock View Post
Gary,

Is there any similarity in purpose to the Optimism/Pessimism Index and the Commitments of Traders (COT) Report? I know that they are calculated differently and they are from different sources, but the concept of optimism seems like it would encourage traders to be committed and vice versa.


The Optimism/Pessimism wave is a proprietary SMI tool. I don't know how it relates to COT. Please remember that the COT reports are lagging indicators and not always so accurate.

Gary

There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures and options. Past performance is not indicative of future results. The opinions expressed here are those of Gary Fullett, and are not to be taken as a recommendation to buy or sell commodity futures or options. This is for educational purposes only.
Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #544 (permalink)
 
Gary Fullett's Avatar
 Gary Fullett   is a Vendor
 
Posts: 214 since Feb 2012
Thanks Given: 85
Thanks Received: 375


supermht View Post
I am reading the pattern, is this a retest?



Both are retests. What is key about retests is how the market acts and reacts at these levels. Because a market is at support or resistance, it does not mean buy or sell respectively. You must judge the volume and price as we approach these areas. Trend plays a major role because you are looking to buy supports and not necessarily sell resistance (unless to take profits). If a market does not behave the way you expect it to behave, this, in your mind, should create a red flag. One should have his own set of rules in how he wants to trade market behavior. We can all look at Wyckoff and have different parameters in how we execute trades.

Gary

There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures and options. Past performance is not indicative of future results. The opinions expressed here are those of Gary Fullett, and are not to be taken as a recommendation to buy or sell commodity futures or options. This is for educational purposes only.
Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
  #545 (permalink)
 
traveller's Avatar
 traveller 
Vancouver, Canada
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: SC
Trading: Guitar
Posts: 118 since Mar 2012
Thanks Given: 222
Thanks Received: 181

Just a couple of trades in EU and some reasoning.

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	2012-03-09_0644_001.png
Views:	215
Size:	94.0 KB
ID:	65730  
Visit my NexusFi Trade Journal Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #546 (permalink)
StockJock
Chicago + Illinois/USA
 
Posts: 256 since Aug 2010
Thanks Given: 15
Thanks Received: 154


Gary Fullett View Post
Please remember that the COT reports are lagging indicators and not always so accurate.

I don't know if its possible to have a leading indicator that takes data from a chart, unless you know of them. It seems that the O.P. Index is a lagging indicator too just like the COT report. What do you think? There's a lot of government money used to compile the data for the COT report and a lot of traders use it. It unfortunate that it's not accurate, but then what indicator is accurate? Only price and volume are the most accurate indicators. Its hard to find accuracy in trading. I heard or read somewhere that successful trading is finding the most probable opportunities almost like the skills developed by successful card players. I'm not sure if that's an accurate comparison.

Quoting 
Calculating an Optimism/Pessimism Index is extremely simple. The volume traded during intra-day up waves is added to the index and the volume traded during the intra-day down waves is subtracted from the index. A sample day is divided into intra-day waves where every reversal of five minutes or more is a wave.

The other SMI indicators are based on similar concepts. There's no trading platform that I know of that can perform these calculations, so I think that makes them proprietary.


Gary Fullett View Post
The Trend Barometer, Technometer, Force and Momentum and Optimism/Pessimism, I do not use as they are stock indicators and I don't trade stocks for the most part. These indicators are in the Wyckoff course, and SMI teaches it, but it doesn't really pertain to commodities.

Apparently, all of the SMI indicators are derived from waves of volume. So you're saying that trading commodities doesn't involve volume? Apparently, the forex market doesn't have actual volume either. Traders use a synthetic type of volume calculated from the properties of the price bars. Possibly, Wyckoff's method doesn't apply to forex either?

Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #547 (permalink)
 
traveller's Avatar
 traveller 
Vancouver, Canada
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: SC
Trading: Guitar
Posts: 118 since Mar 2012
Thanks Given: 222
Thanks Received: 181

Just going over some charts... establishing clues for moves out of Trading Ranges. This is my mission for the next little while- Practice Practice Practice.

So here is a recent one for EU- Pretty straight forward if you can establish what you are looking for and plenty of time to do it with multiple safe entry points. Most on the right hand side of the range.

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	2012-03-10_0849.png
Views:	185
Size:	85.7 KB
ID:	65843  
Visit my NexusFi Trade Journal Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #548 (permalink)
 
Gary Fullett's Avatar
 Gary Fullett   is a Vendor
 
Posts: 214 since Feb 2012
Thanks Given: 85
Thanks Received: 375


StockJock View Post
I don't know if its possible to have a leading indicator that takes data from a chart, unless you know of them. It seems that the O.P. Index is a lagging indicator too just like the COT report. What do you think? There's a lot of government money used to compile the data for the COT report and a lot of traders use it. It unfortunate that it's not accurate, but then what indicator is accurate? Only price and volume are the most accurate indicators. Its hard to find accuracy in trading. I heard or read somewhere that successful trading is finding the most probable opportunities almost like the skills developed by successful card players. I'm not sure if that's an accurate comparison.

There are companies in the past who have manipulated and been fined for misrepresenting COT reporting. Price, action and volume are the only indicators that are live and not lagging. Everything else takes market behavior and is in hindsight.




Quoting 
Apparently, all of the SMI indicators are derived from waves of volume. So you're saying that trading commodities doesn't involve volume? Apparently, the forex market doesn't have actual volume either. Traders use a synthetic type of volume calculated from the properties of the price bars. Possibly, Wyckoff's method doesn't apply to forex either?

Volume is difficult in the forex market but can be calculated. Since forex is an intra-bank market, there is much volume that can't be determined. So there lies the problem.


Gary

There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures and options. Past performance is not indicative of future results. The opinions expressed here are those of Gary Fullett, and are not to be taken as a recommendation to buy or sell commodity futures or options. This is for educational purposes only.
Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #549 (permalink)
StockJock
Chicago + Illinois/USA
 
Posts: 256 since Aug 2010
Thanks Given: 15
Thanks Received: 154

Gary,

Can the Wyckoff method be used for trading US Treasury Bonds? I can't find charts for bonds, where do you get them? Do their charts have volume or are they like forex and commodities which don't have volume? Is your chart here showing bond trading or the trading of bond futures?


Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #550 (permalink)
 
Gary Fullett's Avatar
 Gary Fullett   is a Vendor
 
Posts: 214 since Feb 2012
Thanks Given: 85
Thanks Received: 375



StockJock View Post
Gary,

Can the Wyckoff method be used for trading US Treasury Bonds?

Yes


Quoting 
I can't find charts for bonds, where do you get them?

I use CQG, but you can get bond charts from any data provider. They have both futures and the cash markets.


Quoting 
Do their charts have volume or are they like forex and commodities which don't have volume?

Commodities have volume, and bond futures have volume. The 30 year bond is no longer the standard trade any more. The volume and open interest has switched to the 10 year note due to the smaller duration.


Quoting 
Is your chart here showing bond trading or the trading of bond futures?

Bond futures.


Gary

There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures and options. Past performance is not indicative of future results. The opinions expressed here are those of Gary Fullett, and are not to be taken as a recommendation to buy or sell commodity futures or options. This is for educational purposes only.
Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote




Last Updated on November 12, 2021


© 2024 NexusFi™, s.a., All Rights Reserved.
Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama City, Panama, Ph: +507 833-9432 (Panama and Intl), +1 888-312-3001 (USA and Canada)
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice. There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
About Us - Contact Us - Site Rules, Acceptable Use, and Terms and Conditions - Privacy Policy - Downloads - Top
no new posts