Wyckoff Trading Method - Traders Hideout | futures io social day trading
futures io futures trading


Wyckoff Trading Method
Updated: Views / Replies:250,104 / 1,384
Created: by David_R Attachments:696

Welcome to futures io.

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

futures io is the largest futures trading community on the planet, with over 90,000 members. At futures io, our goal has always been and always will be to create a friendly, positive, forward-thinking community where members can openly share and discuss everything the world of trading has to offer. The community is one of the friendliest you will find on any subject, with members going out of their way to help others. Some of the primary differences between futures io and other trading sites revolve around the standards of our community. Those standards include a code of conduct for our members, as well as extremely high standards that govern which partners we do business with, and which products or services we recommend to our members.

At futures io, our focus is on quality education. No hype, gimmicks, or secret sauce. The truth is: trading is hard. To succeed, you need to surround yourself with the right support system, educational content, and trading mentors Ė all of which you can find on futures io, utilizing our social trading environment.

With futures io, you can find honest trading reviews on brokers, trading rooms, indicator packages, trading strategies, and much more. Our trading review process is highly moderated to ensure that only genuine users are allowed, so you donít need to worry about fake reviews.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading sites:
  • We are here to help. Just let us know what you need.
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive in our community.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, we can help you find it.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.

You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

Reply
 696  
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 

Wyckoff Trading Method

  #911 (permalink)
Banned: Vendor self-promotion
Phoenix AZ
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: IB
Broker/Data: IB
Favorite Futures: NQ
 
DbPhoenix's Avatar
 
Posts: 470 since Dec 2012
Thanks: 95 given, 1,543 received

Just for the hell of it, here are a blow-up of one of the RIMM charts displayed in SJ's pdf link. Below is a "blank" non-log chart of the part of it to the right of the bold, black, vertical line (one can use the area to the left of the line for context).

For those of you who've read Wyckoff's course in the original, what would he have done here and where and why?

(Note that there is a slight difference in trendlines when using log charts, but in this segment it's not enough to matter.)

Please register on futures.io to view futures trading content such as post attachment(s), image(s), and screenshot(s).


Please register on futures.io to view futures trading content such as post attachment(s), image(s), and screenshot(s).

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to DbPhoenix for this post:
 
  #912 (permalink)
Elite Member
Sherborne, United Kingdom
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: QTrader
Broker/Data: IB/CQG
Favorite Futures: Retrospectroscope - for 20/20 Hindsight
 
SisyphusStone's Avatar
 
Posts: 115 since Aug 2012
Thanks: 68 given, 197 received

If it's of any interest, Gary Fullett at ltg-trading has been trying to get Amos Cohen to do a Wyckoff PnF webinar for a while now and promises that it will be early in the New Year. Not sure if it's going to be one of his free ones on a Sunday night - always worth watching anyway and I've learned more about the subtleties of Wyckoff chart reading from Gary than from any other source.

David Weis uses Wyckoff's PnF method and posts charts from time to time in his nightly free letter. Apologies if I am pointing out what you guys probably already know, but my understanding of the basic tenet with Wyckoff, is that you take the count across the row with the greatest number of 'O's and 'X's of the consolidation and then project conservatively from the base of the consolidation and more aggressively from the low of the column that the break-out initiates from. In this case (on the ES) the target range would be 1472.5 to 1473.75. You can then do sequential counts on minor consolidations throughout the trend and watching for clustering.
Weis also uses the same technique on renko 'blocks' to good effect.

Incidentally, you can also use Andrews' Pitchforks/Median Lines to good effect on PnF charts and watch for CoB signals at intersections with PnF counts.

Best
SS

"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes the laws."
Mayer Amschel Rothschild (1744 -1812)
Attached Thumbnails
Wyckoff Trading Method-es-pnf-03012013.png  
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to SisyphusStone for this post:
 
  #913 (permalink)
Trading for Profit
Chicago + Illinois/USA
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: ThinkOrSwim
Favorite Futures: Stock
 
StockJock's Avatar
 
Posts: 256 since Aug 2010
Thanks: 15 given, 148 received



SisyphusStone View Post
If it's of any interest, Gary Fullett at ltg-trading has been trying to get Amos Cohen to do a Wyckoff PnF webinar for a while now and promises that it will be early in the New Year.

Thanks. Let us know if it gets scheduled.


SisyphusStone View Post
David Weis uses Wyckoff's PnF method and posts charts from time to time in his nightly free letter.

Do you have a link to subscribe to his newsletter?

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to StockJock for this post:
 
  #914 (permalink)
Elite Member
East Central Kansas,USA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TOS, AmiBroker
Broker/Data: IB & TDAmeritrade
Favorite Futures: ZF, ES, stocks
 
Posts: 6 since Dec 2011
Thanks: 77 given, 5 received


DbPhoenix View Post
Just for the hell of it, here are a blow-up of one of the RIMM charts displayed in SJ's pdf link. Below is a "blank" non-log chart of the part of it to the right of the bold, black, vertical line (one can use the area to the left of the line for context).

For those of you who've read Wyckoff's course in the original, what would he have done here and where and why?

(Note that there is a slight difference in trendlines when using log charts, but in this segment it's not enough to matter.)

Please register on futures.io to view futures trading content such as post attachment(s), image(s), and screenshot(s).


Please register on futures.io to view futures trading content such as post attachment(s), image(s), and screenshot(s).

Db,

I think Wyckoff would be looking for a backup test on declining volume to the prior area (#7)of the SOW area. I'm just guessing for I have not studied his original material.
Warren

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to Warren for this post:
 
  #915 (permalink)
Trading for Profit
Chicago + Illinois/USA
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: ThinkOrSwim
Favorite Futures: Stock
 
StockJock's Avatar
 
Posts: 256 since Aug 2010
Thanks: 15 given, 148 received

Db,

I managed to estimate the dates for the chart from the brochure. (February 1, 2001 to November 18, 2003) Here is a daily PnF chart for RIMM for those dates. I know their chart is weekly, but right now I don't know how to make a weekly PnF chart.

Please register on futures.io to view futures trading content such as post attachment(s), image(s), and screenshot(s).

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to StockJock for this post:
 
  #916 (permalink)
Banned: Vendor self-promotion
Phoenix AZ
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: IB
Broker/Data: IB
Favorite Futures: NQ
 
DbPhoenix's Avatar
 
Posts: 470 since Dec 2012
Thanks: 95 given, 1,543 received


Warren View Post
Db,

I think Wyckoff would be looking for a backup test on declining volume to the prior area (#7)of the SOW area. I'm just guessing for I have not studied his original material.

Warren

I don't want this to come off as a trick question, but, as SJ points out, the pdf chart spans the period from early '01 to late '03. Since the only reason one would look for the test you describe would be to go short, I hope that W would be short long before this. But, yes, if one were not already short, that would be one thing to look for.

What everyone would be, and was, looking for, though, was an end to all this. Remember, again, that it's early 2001, and 9/11 gave many people an excuse to buy, but even that proved not to be "the bottom".

What one wants to do, then, is look for those clues that suggest a bottom, or at least a bottoming process, is in place. If you were around then, you'll remember how much trouble people had with this (and if the Fed hadn't intervened, one wonders just how long it would have taken). It's obvious in hindsight, and so simple that one wonders how anybody could have missed it. But if one backs up and walks it forward, it becomes not quite so obvious and considerably less simple.

One looks at the market first, of course, but since the market and RIMM were moving pretty much in lockstep, there's little that is inconsistent between the two movements, and since my RIMM data doesn't go back to 2001, let's use the market as a proxy.

Walk it forward, as they say, beginning from the left edge, and see what comes to you.

Please register on futures.io to view futures trading content such as post attachment(s), image(s), and screenshot(s).

Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to DbPhoenix for this post:
 
  #917 (permalink)
Elite Member
detroit,mi
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: NT
Favorite Futures: NQ
 
sudhirc's Avatar
 
Posts: 300 since Sep 2011
Thanks: 1,470 given, 326 received

Just introduced to Wyckoff last week and i'm facinated by it and learning to read the PA without indicators.

Db, can you go through my comments and let me know how would You read this chart.

@DbPhoenix

Attached Thumbnails
Wyckoff Trading Method-image11.jpg  
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to sudhirc for this post:
 
  #918 (permalink)
Elite Member
San Jose, Ca
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninja
Broker/Data: AMP/CQG
Favorite Futures: Something moving
 
David_R's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,510 since Nov 2009
Thanks: 2,267 given, 2,371 received


DbPhoenix View Post
Just for the hell of it, here are a blow-up of one of the RIMM charts displayed in SJ's pdf link. Below is a "blank" non-log chart of the part of it to the right of the bold, black, vertical line (one can use the area to the left of the line for context).

For those of you who've read Wyckoff's course in the original, what would he have done here and where and why?

(Note that there is a slight difference in trendlines when using log charts, but in this segment it's not enough to matter.)

Please register on futures.io to view futures trading content such as post attachment(s), image(s), and screenshot(s).


Please register on futures.io to view futures trading content such as post attachment(s), image(s), and screenshot(s).

DB,

I have not read the original course, so excuse me if I mention something non-W, but does no demand part of the W vocabulary, or is that more VSA? Would he have gone short after seeing the lack of demand? If not I would think a short would be made after the thrust bar.

David

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to David_R for this post:
 
  #919 (permalink)
Banned: Vendor self-promotion
Phoenix AZ
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: IB
Broker/Data: IB
Favorite Futures: NQ
 
DbPhoenix's Avatar
 
Posts: 470 since Dec 2012
Thanks: 95 given, 1,543 received


sudhirc View Post
Just introduced to Wyckoff last week and i'm facinated by it and learning to read the PA without indicators.

Db, can you go through my comments and let me know how would You read this chart.

@DbPhoenix

You learned all this in a week? Good Grief!

Please register on futures.io to view futures trading content such as post attachment(s), image(s), and screenshot(s).


To begin with, W categorized his trend lines into four types: the support and overbought lines in advances and the supply and oversold lines in declines. I changed this for myself to demand and supply lines with the understanding that when price breaks through a supply line, it is overbought, and that when it breaks through a demand line, it is oversold. All of which may sound like babble until one sees it in a chart, at which point the breaks through the lines and their significance should become obvious. In any event, "demand" and "supply" are consistent with what the trendlines are supposed to do as well as being consistent with the core of W's method.

So, in a downtrend, one begins with the "supply" line, which you have done, drawn across the first two swing highs. The lower line, whether one calls it "demand" or "oversold" is drawn parallel or near to parallel with the supply line and begins with the first swing low between those two swing highs. Your demand line, therefore, should start with 9/11. The problem here is that 9/11 is very likely lower than it would have been otherwise, i.e., one may be dealing less with a market event than with the 9/11 event itself, and anything drawn off of it may be misleading. The fact that the lows of July and October do not reach this line must take all of this into account, i.e., that they do not reach the line may not in and of itself mean anything. The same cautions apply to however one may interpret any failure to exceed -- or not -- the 9/11 low.

As for volume, it is useful, mostly as confirmation of whatever interpretation one is forming regarding the price action, but it is not necessary. First, a selling climax need not be accompanied by climactic volume. Climactic volume is often associated with buyers' efforts to support the price, even though those efforts fail to halt price's progress downward (it is important to understand that accumulation takes place on the way down, not just at the bottom, which is why the stride changes well in advance of the low point). Climactic volume, then, can and often does precede the actual selling climax. Second, volume is nothing more than a record of transactions. What matters more than volume is what price is doing. Volume tells you that a transaction has taken place; what price does tells you whether demand or supply has the stronger hand.

As for whether a bar is wide or narrow and where it closes, take care. If I had to choose the one characteristic that separates so many of the Wyckoff variants from Wyckoff himself it would be that they focus on bars and spreads and closes while Wyckoff focuses on the continuous nature of price. Those who have spent a great deal of time -- and money -- studying VSA, for example, have a lot of trouble with this, and perhaps the only way of reprogramming oneself is to switch to line charts for a time and eliminate volume entirely. In this way, one can develop a sensitivity to price movement that others can only dream about.

Even before one gets to trendlines, though, it is wise to be always cognizant of the waves. These are an essential part of the analytical process. Relying on trendlines alone is bad practice.

Compare the buying waves with the selling waves in this chart. What do you notice?

Please register on futures.io to view futures trading content such as post attachment(s), image(s), and screenshot(s).

Reply With Quote
The following 6 users say Thank You to DbPhoenix for this post:
 
  #920 (permalink)
Banned: Vendor self-promotion
Phoenix AZ
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: IB
Broker/Data: IB
Favorite Futures: NQ
 
DbPhoenix's Avatar
 
Posts: 470 since Dec 2012
Thanks: 95 given, 1,543 received



David_R View Post
DB,

I have not read the original course, so excuse me if I mention something non-W, but does no demand part of the W vocabulary, or is that more VSA? Would he have gone short after seeing the lack of demand? If not I would think a short would be made after the thrust bar.

David

Not to be dismissive, but this isn't something I want to get into. I've pointed out some of the differences between W's own work and the work of the adapters and modifiers but there's no point in picking on anybody. If one wants to trade Wyckoff, he'll not only read Wyckoff but engage it: read it, study it, play with it, practice with it, trade it, evaluate it. If he'd rather work with VSA or Evans or SMI or whoever or whatever, that's perfectly okay by me. My only concern is that he not believe that he's working with Wyckoff. That just muddies the water.

Therefore, if the answers to your questions are important to you, I suggest you download the course and scan it using Ctrl+F for things like "ice" and "creek" and "spring", which you won't find. Scan also for "thrust" and "shakeout" to learn what these terms meant to Wyckoff. Scanning for words like "springboard" will also be illuminating.

Db

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to DbPhoenix for this post:

Reply



futures io > > > Wyckoff Trading Method

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)

Jigsaw Trading: TBA

Elite only

FuturesTrader71: TBA

Elite only

NinjaTrader: TBA

Jan 18

RandBots: TBA

Jan 23

GFF Brokers & CME Group: Futures & Bitcoin

Elite only

Adam Grimes: TBA

Elite only

Ran Aroussi: TBA

Elite only
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Webinar: Wyckoff Method Tuesday, May 10th @ 4:30 PM Eastern Time DrGary The Elite Circle 23 January 27th, 2016 10:50 PM
TF trading using CCI method-it works ESFXtrader Emini Index Futures Trading 426 December 21st, 2014 07:27 PM
A simple trading method that produces results. kevinhenjum Elite Automated Trading 29 November 9th, 2011 11:00 AM
GomCluster Trading Method RODLM Elite Automated Trading 10 October 28th, 2011 07:05 AM
Is here anybody who is trading Felton method? Experiences? redford007 Trading Reviews and Vendors 3 June 6th, 2011 06:01 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:04 PM.

Copyright © 2017 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts
Page generated 2017-12-16 in 0.16 seconds with 20 queries on phoenix via your IP 54.163.210.170