Wyckoff Trading Method - Traders Hideout | futures io social day trading
futures io futures trading


Wyckoff Trading Method
Updated: Views / Replies:236,785 / 1,384
Created: by David_R Attachments:696

Welcome to futures io.

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

futures io is the largest futures trading community on the planet, with over 90,000 members. At futures io, our goal has always been and always will be to create a friendly, positive, forward-thinking community where members can openly share and discuss everything the world of trading has to offer. The community is one of the friendliest you will find on any subject, with members going out of their way to help others. Some of the primary differences between futures io and other trading sites revolve around the standards of our community. Those standards include a code of conduct for our members, as well as extremely high standards that govern which partners we do business with, and which products or services we recommend to our members.

At futures io, our focus is on quality education. No hype, gimmicks, or secret sauce. The truth is: trading is hard. To succeed, you need to surround yourself with the right support system, educational content, and trading mentors – all of which you can find on futures io, utilizing our social trading environment.

With futures io, you can find honest trading reviews on brokers, trading rooms, indicator packages, trading strategies, and much more. Our trading review process is highly moderated to ensure that only genuine users are allowed, so you don’t need to worry about fake reviews.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading sites:
  • We are here to help. Just let us know what you need.
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive in our community.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, we can help you find it.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.

You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

Reply
 696  
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 

Wyckoff Trading Method

  #181 (permalink)
Elite Member
Norway
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: MultiCharts, CQG, NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: CQG, DTN IQFeed
Favorite Futures: EURO
 
Laurus12's Avatar
 
Posts: 376 since Nov 2010
Thanks: 557 given, 349 received

Hello Pryme.

I see what you are telling, but I do not agree with your overall picture. One important aspect we should be aware of is that about 85 percent of total activity we see in a market is caused by the "Composite Man" and other professionals. Another thing off course is that professionals are competing for the best prices, also being very much aware of each other making sure there are no professional interest in the opposite direction of theirs.

Now we do not know exactly at which levels the "Composite Man" set his acceptable range for distribution on the CL range discussed, but we know that the "Composite Man" would like to keep price as high as possible to get the best selling prices. Also meaning that the "Composite Man" are both buying and selling within the same range to keep the price within its acceptable range, but off course in this case selling more than buying to do their cause. This is also an important part to be aware of; the "Composite Man" is always both selling and buying during a campaign, which can at times complicate things. This, as in the CL 60min case, will be kept on as long as there are buying worth selling to in the market. So to take your C 4 bar as an example where you wrote: "...shows clearly that there is no supply left at this area.. as the supply has been absorbed...". This is not the case. What C 4 shows is that demand/buying is leaving the market. Demand has been absorbed. Further if we should keep us within exchange time as an requirement for the discussion the second bar after C 4 at 6 pm which is an narrow spread up bar, and hypothetically say this was at for example 3 pm, this would be a clear "No Demand" bar (VSA term).

We can ask ourselves a simple question; why do we have the highest volume at the top of the CL range? Simply because this is where the largest interest was, meaning the overall situation was professional selling/distribution into the bars going up. Often when the bars are going down the most heavy selling has passed. Your bar C 3 is going up on lower volume meaning demand is starting to go away. The next bar is going down easy on lower volume for same reason. When we have high volume up bars crossing the middle of the trading range, this can simply mean that price has reached the set range within the main range itself for what the "Composite Man" has accepted as acceptable price levels to start selling. Bar C 1 most likely satisfy this condition.

I agree with you when it comes to part D 1 when you say demand coming in, which made me think that this can be short lived. BUT, was it "one" large position to trick people like us to start buying on the way down making sure that the "Composite Man" have enough volume to sell to? Many people are using the Volume Ladder to follow large positions, though the "Composite Man" likes many small. As you probably remember in the Wyckoff study a part of the "Composite Mans" campaign is deception. Bar D 2 as a high volume Markdown could support this. It will be interesting to see what comes next.

Have a nice weekend

Laurus

Edit: Adding picture by PrymeTyme

“If you wish to see the truth, then hold no opinions for or against anything.” - Hsin Hsin Ming
Attached Thumbnails
Wyckoff Trading Method-cl60.png  

Last edited by Laurus12; February 13th, 2011 at 08:35 AM.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Laurus12 for this post:
 
  #182 (permalink)
Elite Member
V/Austria
 
Futures Experience: Master
Platform: MT4/Ninja/TT/MultiCharts
Favorite Futures: FX / Indices
 
Posts: 88 since Oct 2010
Thanks: 32 given, 92 received

Hi Laurus



good stuff , your wrote there , thnx as i was biased by thinking that this is an area of accumulation .. i only looked
for signs that proof this.. and overlooked the distribution signs ...


as bars A1 B1 and C2 shows clearly that supply swamps the . market but i thought that this supply isnt from the SM

i mean even though most activity is from the professionals .. doesent mean that they can fight the market .. they have to start campaigns .. in order to sell or buy from the public and to remove resistance levels.. and i thought that the SM
has testet the levels of resistance .. in order to know the quantiy or quality of supply at that level.. and as the volume is that high .. there has to be plenty of supply .. wich they now have to absorb.. or likewise..

iam still not 100 percent convinced that its distribution.. but i like the discussion about that chart as it helps me alot and focus on more aspects.. wich will help me in the future analysis..

lets talk about the C4 low volume wide spread up bar , iam not sure that this could be called a no demand bar
as the spread of the bar .. is quite wide.. i would say if we take the effort and result contex into this bar..
then that means we had little effort with nice results.. hence no resistance for the price to advance..

would you say that the SM had distributed all there positions so that this bar had no problem in advancing ?

i mean the small spread up bar u described is a no demand bar.. but that only means that the SM has withdrawn from trading at that time .. why ? well too watch if supply has been absorbed.. in a case of accumulation.. or they are not interrested in an upmove .. in a case of distribution...

the rallie back to the ice .. will reveal more information.. will be interresting to watch

take care .. wish u a nice sunday

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to PrymeTyme for this post:
 
  #183 (permalink)
Elite Member
Norway
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: MultiCharts, CQG, NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: CQG, DTN IQFeed
Favorite Futures: EURO
 
Laurus12's Avatar
 
Posts: 376 since Nov 2010
Thanks: 557 given, 349 received


Pryme, thanks to you too. I appreciate it a lot, because most often we do not have teachers to challenge us when we study this craft by ourselves, for my part I do not have any. So challenges is very important to shake my standings and make me think and challenge what I have learned. High value I think.

If we take the supply at A1, B1 and C2 and said this was not the professionals or the "Composite Man", being on the top of the "food chain", this would mean that the "Dumb Money"/retailers was stronger than the "Composite Man". To be that this would mean the retailers and other larger capital "Dumb Money" had to be coordinated with a common goal and with larger capital, which has yet to come. I am not sure how it is with common banks speculating in the CL, but if we said so, they with other investment funds are not always amongst the Smart Money. I know for a fact that some investment funds, and banks from time to time, with large capital that are amongst the really "Dumb Money". I say "really dumb", because they should know better before torching other peoples money. So the "Composite Man" has some good times in covering their investments.

Regarding bar C 4 I agree with you, the bar is too wide. This is why I used the second bar after closing time at 6 pm, just as an illustration on a "No Demand" bar.

- "...would you say that the SM had distributed all there positions so that this bar had no problem in advancing ?..."
Yes, but on the initiative of the Smart Money themselves as a test to check if demand was gone before starting to mark price down with expectations of minimal risk. A ST in Wyckoff terms. The same with the second "No Demand" 6pm bar after (not by SM). It confirms that there are no interest in buying, meaning Markdown risk is low (as you know).

A nice Sunday to you too

Laurus

“If you wish to see the truth, then hold no opinions for or against anything.” - Hsin Hsin Ming

Last edited by Laurus12; February 13th, 2011 at 10:38 AM.
Reply With Quote
 
  #184 (permalink)
Elite Member
Norway
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: MultiCharts, CQG, NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: CQG, DTN IQFeed
Favorite Futures: EURO
 
Laurus12's Avatar
 
Posts: 376 since Nov 2010
Thanks: 557 given, 349 received


David_R View Post
I commented in your quote. By the way, no expert opinion, just how I see it.

D

D, I liked your comments. Good and firm analysis I think. You also added more useful observations than I did, which gave a good overview. Good observation with the hidden test on the 12/27
Please register on futures.io to view futures trading content such as post attachment(s), image(s), and screenshot(s).
. No need to put your self down by saying "no expert opinion" I think I am going to read it more than once.

Laurus

“If you wish to see the truth, then hold no opinions for or against anything.” - Hsin Hsin Ming
Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Laurus12 for this post:
 
  #185 (permalink)
Elite Member
San Jose, Ca
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninja
Broker/Data: AMP/CQG
Favorite Futures: Something moving
 
David_R's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,510 since Nov 2009
Thanks: 2,267 given, 2,371 received

CL bigger picture

Nice exchange of thoughts on CL.

I think its important to remember to not get too focused on one area of a chart. As Dr. Gary would say, "learn to soften your focus." I think the meaning is to take a step back and have a broader view of what is going on. The area that has been discussed is important, but not the only thing going on and by itself may have lesser meaning. It's like saying just because I see an upthrust type bar I should short.

I've posted a weekly, Daily and a wider view of the 60 min. The weekly is still in an uptrend although there is weakness. SOT and we have taken out 10 weekly closes, i think, with last weeks close. 2 weeks ago CL closed near its highs for the week and this week near/on the lows. The daily shows a break in TL support and we do have a lower high and lower low in place, right?

I think the 15 minute painted and different picture than the 60 minute and the area in question was re-distribution. The background on the 60 minute was lower lows and lower highs, there was a Lower low and a lower high put in on the Daily before this leg down began. In reality we area really still in just one big trading range that spans 85-93. I think if 85 breaks we get more downside movement, but I don't know where. There is lots of support areas below, but the longer term supply line is around the 82 area. Resistance above looks like the 86 area.

David

Attached Thumbnails
Wyckoff Trading Method-cl_big_picture.jpg   Wyckoff Trading Method-cl_60min.jpg   Wyckoff Trading Method-60_closeup.jpg  
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to David_R for this post:
 
  #186 (permalink)
Elite Member
Norway
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: MultiCharts, CQG, NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: CQG, DTN IQFeed
Favorite Futures: EURO
 
Laurus12's Avatar
 
Posts: 376 since Nov 2010
Thanks: 557 given, 349 received


David_R View Post
Nice exchange of thoughts on CL.

I think its important to remember to not get too focused on one area of a chart. As Dr. Gary would say, "learn to soften your focus." I think the meaning is to take a step back and have a broader view of what is going on.....

David

Very good points David. This was also the reason for the final feeling/impression I sat with after reading your comments on Ctmvas' 6A chart. From what you pointed out on his 6A chart you managed to indirectly communicate this through your comments. Well done. One can never have reminders of this sort enough times. Previously the overfocus got to me repeatedly. It is not until a half year ago this started to be the past, but I still fall for it once in awhile. This is one of the reasons for liking the Wyckoff Method, it makes me zoom in and out of the market looking for patterns on all time frames. I am almost finished with a new home office for my trading and a "step back - broader view" reminder is going to be stuck on the wall.

Thanks,
Laurus

“If you wish to see the truth, then hold no opinions for or against anything.” - Hsin Hsin Ming
Reply With Quote
 
  #187 (permalink)
Elite Member
Quebec
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader wt Rancho Dinero's profiling tools
Broker/Data: Stage 5 trading/AMP/CQG
Favorite Futures: ES, NQ, YM
 
trendisyourfriend's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,697 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 3,041 given, 4,496 received

VSA/Wyckoff - The story of the blind men and an elephant

Guys i have been following this thread and still i have this thought about the old parable about the blind men and an elephant. Here is the Jain version to put things into context:

Source: Blind men and an elephant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
the story says that six blind men were asked to determine what an elephant looked like by feeling different parts of the elephant's body. The blind man who feels a leg says the elephant is like a pillar; the one who feels the tail says the elephant is like a rope; the one who feels the trunk says the elephant is like a tree branch; the one who feels the ear says the elephant is like a hand fan; the one who feels the belly says the elephant is like a wall; and the one who feels the tusk says the elephant is like a solid pipe.

I have a question for you, how do you do to pull the trigger, i mean you always seem to debate whether or not this price action segment is accumulation/distribution or this or that. You sound like philosophical actors debating about the nature of life. Your trading cosmology seems to give so much room to discretion that i wonder how you can decide which price level is the one where you want to pull the trigger.

How do you remove uncertainty in your mind about what you are seeing? It seems to me that this science is prone to errors even more so than with other approaches. Ask six individual students of this science what is in front of them and you'll possibly get 6 different answers.

Just want to understand what is so seducing in such a fuzzy science where you might feel like one among this group of the six blind men ?

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to trendisyourfriend for this post:
 
  #188 (permalink)
Just starting out...
Thailand
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT, SierraCharts, eSignal
Favorite Futures: EUR/USD, CL, GC, SI
 
Posts: 22 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 43 given, 42 received


trendisyourfriend View Post
Guys i have been following this thread and still i have this thought about the old parable about the blind men and an elephant. Here is the Jain version to put things into context:

Source: Blind men and an elephant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
the story says that six blind men were asked to determine what an elephant looked like by feeling different parts of the elephant's body. The blind man who feels a leg says the elephant is like a pillar; the one who feels the tail says the elephant is like a rope; the one who feels the trunk says the elephant is like a tree branch; the one who feels the ear says the elephant is like a hand fan; the one who feels the belly says the elephant is like a wall; and the one who feels the tusk says the elephant is like a solid pipe.

I have a question for you, how do you do to pull the trigger, i mean you always seem to debate whether or not this price action segment is accumulation/distribution or this or that. You sound like philosophical actors debating about the nature of life. Your trading cosmology seems to give so much room to discretion that i wonder how you can decide which price level is the one where you want to pull the trigger.

How do you remove uncertainty in your mind about what you are seeing? It seems to me that this science is prone to errors even more so than with other approaches. Ask six individual students of this science what is in front of them and you'll possibly get 6 different answers.

Just want to understand what is so seducing in such a fuzzy science where you might feel like one among this group of the six blind men ?

Interesting thoughts. But the six blind men have no common basis to work from, they are ask to feel something called an 'elephant' (which they have no idea what it is) and give their impressions. Contributors of this thread have a common set of principles to work from, we know what the elephant looks like, we just sometimes are not sure of the part of the elephant we are seeing.
I don't feel blind when I use the Wychoff method, it helps me put the pieces together to get an idea of what is happening and where things can happen. I've tried other approaches but never felt comfortable with them as I seemed to be in a constant state of anxiety, with Wychoff I've removed most of that anxiety.

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to martied16 for this post:
 
  #189 (permalink)
Elite Member
V/Austria
 
Futures Experience: Master
Platform: MT4/Ninja/TT/MultiCharts
Favorite Futures: FX / Indices
 
Posts: 88 since Oct 2010
Thanks: 32 given, 92 received


trendisyourfriend View Post
Guys i have been following this thread and still i have this thought about the old parable about the blind men and an elephant. Here is the Jain version to put things into context:

Source: Blind men and an elephant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
the story says that six blind men were asked to determine what an elephant looked like by feeling different parts of the elephant's body. The blind man who feels a leg says the elephant is like a pillar; the one who feels the tail says the elephant is like a rope; the one who feels the trunk says the elephant is like a tree branch; the one who feels the ear says the elephant is like a hand fan; the one who feels the belly says the elephant is like a wall; and the one who feels the tusk says the elephant is like a solid pipe.

I have a question for you, how do you do to pull the trigger, i mean you always seem to debate whether or not this price action segment is accumulation/distribution or this or that. You sound like philosophical actors debating about the nature of life. Your trading cosmology seems to give so much room to discretion that i wonder how you can decide which price level is the one where you want to pull the trigger.

How do you remove uncertainty in your mind about what you are seeing? It seems to me that this science is prone to errors even more so than with other approaches. Ask six individual students of this science what is in front of them and you'll possibly get 6 different answers.

Just want to understand what is so seducing in such a fuzzy science where you might feel like one among this group of the six blind men ?

Hi Trend

thats something u got with all methologys .. different opinions .. but they could lead to the same conclusion in the end... a methology might be nothing for someon who needs crystal clear instructions.. like MA crosses and divergence .. or similar indicator style trading systems.... where it says if A and B happens do C..

thats somehing a monkey could do.. i agree that some methologys are pretty vague .. like elliot wave principle..
but thats not the case .. with wyckoff or vsa ... if 6 wyckoffians look at a chart 5 out of 6 come to the same conclusion... but if 6 ellioticans look at a chart .. u might get 6 different wave counts ... but they may lead to the same conclusion..

iam nowhere near a wyckoffian pro .. iam still a student .. and thats why we have several different opinions and discuss them here.. and thats good as it helps.. alot...

also nothing is black and white in the markets.. but some good conclusions can be made... and the more signs go towards an accumulation pattern .. then i would wait for a breakout above the resistance.. and a succesfull retest of that resistance.. wich would turn support, then pull the trigger.. wich is pretty conservative...but fits my personality.. and thats another point .. no method fits my personality more then vsa and wyckoff.. as i simply don use indicators .. and i want to be able to know why price did waht it did.. ie. beeing able to read the markets like a book... and judge the market by its own actions... to me wyckoff is the best method out there ..
i hav analyzed several charts during the 7 months i studied wyckoff .. and i had several aha effects . wich i never had before.. and i can say with confidence that 75% off my analyzes where correct ie a profitable trade.. i never had that experience before..

and as this thread continues ... we will have more and more common thoughts about a particular chart, ie come to the same conclusion...




cheers

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to PrymeTyme for this post:
 
  #190 (permalink)
Just starting out...
Thailand
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT, SierraCharts, eSignal
Favorite Futures: EUR/USD, CL, GC, SI
 
Posts: 22 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 43 given, 42 received

Bonds


Looks like the bonds have broken down out of a trading range and are currently retesting that breakdown.
Interestingly, the 60 min shows a head and shoulders pattern. Note the low volume after the initial thrust down from the TR and also the head was formed on lower volume. Looks like the shorts piled in at the 118'20 area in the day session but overnight seems to be heading up.
I'm fairly surprised at the low volume move down considering it was a 2 month base, but the breaking of the ice was done on news - headfake? Spring? Will be interesting to watch as it unfolds.

Attached Thumbnails
Wyckoff Trading Method-zb-03-11-daily-9_24_2010-2_12_2011.jpg   Wyckoff Trading Method-zb-03-11-60-min-2_13_2011.jpg  
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to martied16 for this post:

Reply



futures io > > > Wyckoff Trading Method

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)

Linda Bradford Raschke: Reading The Tape

Elite only

Adam Grimes: TBA

Elite only

NinjaTrader: TBA

January

Ran Aroussi: TBA

Elite only
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Webinar: Wyckoff Method Tuesday, May 10th @ 4:30 PM Eastern Time DrGary The Elite Circle 23 January 27th, 2016 10:50 PM
TF trading using CCI method-it works ESFXtrader Emini Index Futures Trading 426 December 21st, 2014 07:27 PM
A simple trading method that produces results. kevinhenjum Elite Automated Trading 29 November 9th, 2011 11:00 AM
GomCluster Trading Method RODLM Elite Automated Trading 10 October 28th, 2011 07:05 AM
Is here anybody who is trading Felton method? Experiences? redford007 Trading Reviews and Vendors 3 June 6th, 2011 06:01 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:14 AM.

Copyright © 2017 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts
Page generated 2017-12-11 in 0.19 seconds with 20 queries on phoenix via your IP 54.226.34.209