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Use your brain! Mechanical indicator-based systems don't work
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Use your brain! Mechanical indicator-based systems don't work

  #101 (permalink)
Senior Member
sea side
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: NinjaTrader
 
Posts: 217 since Dec 2009
Thanks: 86 given, 25 received

Silvester,

I saw you've wrote a lot of good posts, just my 2 cents, we are here on Mike's forum to talk to each other, to discuss, to share, to feed (who can) and to learn (who wants), but not to fight with each other.

However I've noted that a lot traders has "aggressive or contrarian nature" as it's just one of trader professional features

Krgds,
Andrew


Silvester17 View Post
my sincere apologies. you're absolutely right. I made that all up.

please continue with your contributions. very much appreciated.


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  #102 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Columbus, OH
 
Futures Experience: None
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Silvester17's Avatar
 
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Lynx21 View Post
I'm not here to fall out with anyone, as mentioned in a previous post, I was looking into Ninja Trader and the data files because I thought it would be quite useful for a couple of the newer guys on the desk to be able to replay days etc out of the office in their own time. As mentioned, I was required to make 10 posts to be able to download them, and in return I've shared some of my knowledge (hence why i made 10 posts in a very short space of time).

Slivester.... i'm not saying you know nothing about trading etc or devaluing any contributions that you have made here in this community, but here in this thread, you clearly have been talking about something that you have very little or no experience with... it's clear for anyone with that level of trading experience to see, and it's represented by the amount of PM's i've had from other people here who are also are calling you up on your alledged experience. If you have indeed been trading for over 8 years, it's clear you're not trading any size, and one has to ask, that why after over 8 years of alleged professional trading, why you're noting doing so?

So seeing as I do have the experience, this makes me believe that one of the following is true...

1. You have no experience on a trading to desk at all, and believe you can get away with implying that you do as the majoirty of people here won't have the experience to call you up on it....

2. You got your foot in the door at one point on a small trading desk, but you didn't perform that well and either got shown the door, or the cost of monthly desk fee's were eating into your profits because you weren't making enough. If this is the case, then this reflects your experience and abilities as a trader

3. You started in the back office but never made it to the front...

Either way, anyone from a professional background will tell you that on a trading desk, as crude as it may seem, it's all about how much money you make... period... The best rise to the top and are rewarded with highler limits. Like i've said before, it's clear for anyone to see that you haven't traded any size before, and after so many years of alledged trading in the professional industry, you are either just lying or you are a very poor trader. You are only as guilty as you show yourself to be.

almost got it right. I used to be a mailman, so I was able to sneak in the trading room.

before I leave can I ask you for a favor (even if I offended you)? without my disrespectful posts, would you have come back to this forum? I had a feeling you just made 10 posts so you can download whatever you needed.

as my experience as a mailman I know professional trading is pretty demanding and I was not sure if you are going to spend time in this forum on your spare time. not much for you to gain here.

good trading to all.

ps are you chelsea or arsenal?

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  #103 (permalink)
Membership Revoked
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Lynx21 View Post
I have to agree with the op in regards to indicators. This is the first time i've ever signed up to a forum like this, and admittedly it has been to use some other resources available on the site. However, I must say that i'm completely shocked at the amount of people who seem to think that indicators hold the answers in trading, especially day trading. I'm not going to bang on about myself, but i've been an intraday trader for just short of a decade on the otherside of the fence from retail traders, so if you only ever take one bit of advice from me, forget about indicators.... period. I mentioned in another post here that in all my years as a professional trader, i've never once come across anyone relying on indictors to trade who has made a career out of trading (maybe selling indicators). If you want to be a trader, just forget about indicators all together. Now i'm sure there will be people that will aruge that they make money with indicators, but I bet you that they haven't been trading that long, and i bet you they're not trading any decent size. All these guru's selling mentorship for monthly fee's etc and teaching to trade using indicators.... ask yourself this... have you ever been into an online trading room where the so called guru is trading 3000-5000 lots per trade and taking between 20 and 30pts out of the emini sp every week using indicators? I'm guessing not.... someone trading a 20lot using a few indicators who has only been trading a few months to a couple of years isn't someone in a position to call themselves experienced. To give you an example, when we take on new university graduates on our trading floor, the ones that make the cut after their initial training, are normally trading 100 - 150 lots per trade in the emini sp 500 at the end of their first year...

Don't buy any indicators off anyone, and don't buy any mentorship off anyone using indicators who's trading 5 -10lots and only makes a few hundred dollars a few times a week. I know a lot of retail traders are only looking to make $200-$400 a day, and if this is your goal, then fine, but if someone who is trying to charge you monthly fee's for an indicator or trading room and are telling you that they are an experienced trader, but they're only making a couple of grand a week, then just walk away as that's appauling performance for an actual experienced trader.

Don't learn the hard way, learn what actually moves the market, otherwise you're just funding the losses of someone else using indicators.

Just to clarify my thinking, you work for a firm that allows traders to make directional bets on the S&P with 2-5K lots with house money?

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  #104 (permalink)
Elite Member
Seattle
 
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Silvester17 View Post

ps are you chelsea or arsenal?

GUNNERS FOR LIFE!!!!!!

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  #105 (permalink)
Elite Member
NA
 
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Blz17 View Post
GUNNERS FOR LIFE!!!!!!


Victoria Concordia Crescit

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  #106 (permalink)
Senior Member
sea side
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: NinjaTrader
 
Posts: 217 since Dec 2009
Thanks: 86 given, 25 received

Well

I was, as most of us very glad, that pro trader appeared here and we can talk to him a bit, but...

Usually "serious" firm has it's own historical data base, so not need to search in free sources

Silvester is contributing a lot to that forum and deserve certain respect even if he was not right, but...
when person told : sorry !
it's not correct and good continue to press that person

Yes, most of us here are beginners and "retailers" as I call it and we are here to learn, to discuss and to help each other.



Krgds,
Andrew




Lynx21 View Post
I'm not here to fall out with anyone, as mentioned in a previous post, I was looking into Ninja Trader and the data files because I thought it would be quite useful for a couple of the newer guys on the desk to be able to replay days etc out of the office in their own time. As mentioned, I was required to make 10 posts to be able to download them, and in return I've shared some of my knowledge (hence why i made 10 posts in a very short space of time).

Slivester.... i'm not saying you know nothing about trading etc or devaluing any contributions that you have made here in this community, but here in this thread, you clearly have been talking about something that you have very little or no experience with... it's clear for anyone with that level of trading experience to see, and it's represented by the amount of PM's i've had from other people here who are also are calling you up on your alledged experience. If you have indeed been trading for over 8 years, it's clear you're not trading any size, and one has to ask, that why after over 8 years of alleged professional trading, why you're noting doing so?

So seeing as I do have the experience, this makes me believe that one of the following is true...

1. You have no experience on a trading to desk at all, and believe you can get away with implying that you do as the majoirty of people here won't have the experience to call you up on it....

2. You got your foot in the door at one point on a small trading desk, but you didn't perform that well and either got shown the door, or the cost of monthly desk fee's were eating into your profits because you weren't making enough. If this is the case, then this reflects your experience and abilities as a trader

3. You started in the back office but never made it to the front...

Either way, anyone from a professional background will tell you that on a trading desk, as crude as it may seem, it's all about how much money you make... period... The best rise to the top and are rewarded with highler limits. Like i've said before, it's clear for anyone to see that you haven't traded any size before, and after so many years of alledged trading in the professional industry, you are either just lying or you are a very poor trader. You are only as guilty as you show yourself to be.



Last edited by Andrew; January 16th, 2010 at 10:57 AM.
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  #107 (permalink)
Elite Member
Seattle
 
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CDesai13 View Post

Victoria Concordia Crescit

Holy crap. I actually didn't know anything about Victoria Concordia Crescit so I googled and got my learn on. "Victory comes from harmony" pretty much sums up how the Gunners play and what makes their style incredibly unique.

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  #108 (permalink)
Senior Member
sea side
 
Futures Experience: None
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Posts: 217 since Dec 2009
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That's Latin language

Win, Concord, Grow


Blz17 View Post
Victoria Concordia Crescit


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  #109 (permalink)
Elite Member
toronto canada
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninjatrader
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Posts: 7 since Sep 2014
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This thread has kinda changed from the original intent which was a great point.

Indicators have their place but at the same time you have to continualy monitor them to ensure they continue to work in present market conditions.

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  #110 (permalink)
Elite Member
Como, Italy
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Tradestation, IB
Broker/Data: Tradestation, IB
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Posts: 158 since Aug 2014
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I may be some years late to reply this post but I would not be so skeptical with mechanical trading. I manage a little prop company and we trade since 5 years emerging cash markets. We trade them the old way...so buy the bid, sell the ask. Since two years we started to look further to automated trading as well.

In the last two years we developed and put at work some mechanical strategies on different kind of instruments and results are not great but not bad at all.

It's just different from manual trading, profit and consistency of the profit can't be compared to manual trading but can be better measured.
Indicators can help when you develop a trading strategy but I would say that the importance of an indicator can weight 20% on the strategy, the remaining is position and money management.
Also a strategy can work for some time then stop working and loose money and then start working again. That's why you can't run just only one strategy but you need to have different kind of strategies working in as many instruments as possible. So future, stocks, currencies, options.
Off course it is a long process and I can't say we are already there, actually we aren't even close, but it just make sense to me.

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