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Use your brain! Mechanical indicator-based systems don't work
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Created: by cunparis Attachments:3

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Use your brain! Mechanical indicator-based systems don't work

  #91 (permalink)
Senior Member
sea side
 
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Posts: 217 since Dec 2009
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Cunparis,

below it is

https://futures.io/traders-hideout/2244-two-line-trading-7.html#post21910

post # 68

BTW, how you "manage" your CPU, I have all fast, but recently not quite satisfied with my CPU, think now how to test that and tweak if necessary, like in Vista remove some unnecessary processes, etc.

Krgds,
Andrew


cunparis View Post
I must have missed it, can you post a link? I had computer problems, CPU was > 90C and I had to take everything apart and clean it and put it back together.


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  #92 (permalink)
Elite Member
Ireland
 
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Shivaya's Avatar
 
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Cunparis,

Have to agree. Way back when TradeStation was first launched we (1 programmer, 1 institutional trader and myself) designed many systems and found NONE that made money intraday but several that made money on daily data. The only way to make money was to trade a basket of markets with various systems. So a fund was essential.

The best system was a fade one. Every time the market went against by say 40 points add and keep adding for total of 4 times then kill at stop for big loss. It had fantastic PF etc and we traded it and made money 73% winners. But it was such a 'I feel lousy trading this dog system' that no one wanted to take responsibility for it.

The best systems also made us relook at so many trading rules. Like 'no stops' made many systems very profitable. Some gap systems were great. Again all daily.

In the end that fund grew huge and is still running but remember you only have to make 15% a year consistently and you can have hundreds of millions to manage.

I returned to discretionary trading and use old systems as indicators.

The best strategy for myself is ironically 'stop and reverse'. For years I was never out of the market, always either long or short. I took big hits and huge gains.

Few know how to reverse a trade wisely. You might like to focus some attention on this.

Trade wisely

Kind Regards

Shivaya

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  #93 (permalink)
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Mopaditi's Avatar
 
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Pit traders?



Andrew View Post
Cunparis,

Exactly !!!
That's why I'm trying to find as much as possible on "old school" as well as on pit trading.
BTW have you seen in Fredy's thread what I've wrote you about idea of a few simple "raw" volume indicators ?

Krgds,
Andrew

I've wondered what relevance "pit trading" has in the markets that are completely electronic like the eminis.

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  #94 (permalink)
Trade with the flow
Paris, France
 
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Lynx21 View Post
Nope, not selling anything, just sharing some information to make my 10 post to download something that I wanted to look at. So you can go back to making stupid claims without anyone pulling you up on it because i'm now gone.

I find his reply very disrespectful and it's a shame that a professional trader comes to the forum to share an experience and that is the reply he gets. I hope you won't leave on his account as I assure you he does not speak for the majority here.

I found your post interesting and I'm very curious to hear about the method used to teach your new traders. Would you mind sharing some insights there? Are they given the basics and then they come up with their own setups? Does your company give them a list of setups to trade? I've always been curious how that works for trading firms.

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  #95 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Columbus, OH
 
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Silvester17's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,332 since Aug 2009
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first I have been on the other side of the fence too, but a little longer than 8 years. even the same location. and I can assure you, I've never seen any trader not using indicators.

and do you really think in order to be a good trader you need to trade a decent size? which is the better trader: trading 5000 lots for 20 - 30 points per week, or trading 10 lots for 30 - 50 points?

he says volume is a useless information, you need to watch order flow and open interest. well order flow is part of the volume. and imo open interest is not very useful.

I do agree to be careful about buying indicators, systems etc.

there are more remarks I have to laugh about. (sim, graduates, )

now go ahead and blame me if he's not coming back. as he said, he only needed 10 posts so he can download something (prob an indicator lol).

now please feel free to delete that post and put me on ignore again.

since I already know nobody will miss my posts, I'll better not waste anymore time.

good luck to all.

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  #96 (permalink)
Trade with the flow
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Silvester17 View Post
now please feel free to delete that post and put me on ignore again.

since I already know nobody will miss my posts, I'll better not waste anymore time.

I only delete posts that are rude, disrespectful, argumentative, or off-topic. I find your last post much more respectful than the first one, and also notice that I deleted his reply too so I'm not picking on you.

I think when he was talking about indicators, he meant price indicators just as I meant in my OP.

I look forward to his reply.

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  #97 (permalink)
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Silvester17 View Post

which is the better trader: trading 5000 lots for 20 - 30 points per week, or trading 10 lots for 30 - 50 points?

Everything else being equal the former. Lynx21 already gave a couple of reasons. Another is trading that sort of size you will need to start 'working orders' in all but the most liquid of markets. This is a skill that the 10 lot trader has not needed to learn yet.

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  #98 (permalink)
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Lynx,

I guess, that is not the only reason why you are here

Krgds,
Andrew


Lynx21 View Post

Oh and for the record.... no I wasn't downloading an indicator, I was messing around with data files...


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  #99 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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Lynx21 View Post
First off all in regards to your comment about size doesn't reflect the skill of the trader. If you do infact come from a professional background, then you'll know that as your profit targets are met, your limits are increased by the firm. Your size is increased until a point where the firm feels you can't handel anymore size. If you have successive down days, your limits are lowered until you hit your targets again for higher limits.

Yor second comment about who is the better trader, the trader doing 20-30 pts a week on 5000 lots, or the trader doing 30-50pts a week on 10lots. For someone who is supposed to be a professional trader, that is one hell of a ridiculous comment. Well, first of all, i've partly answered this stupid question in the begining of the post. If the trader on 10 lots was so much better, then the firm would increase his limits and he wouldn't only be trading just 10 lots. Secondly, when trading large size, you don't have as much freedom in regards to getting filled at every price like you would on just 10lots, so a trader trading much larger size has to be more selective of his trades to be able to use his full limit, so trades will be taken at slightly different places and will be iceburged or ghosted into the market. I would know this because back when the Bund was much more liquid, I was trading 5000 lots in that market, as well as doing various spreads in the Bund, Bobl and Schatz, and I still trade 2000 lots in the emini spoo every day.

In regards to volume... there's nothing like miss quoting someone to try and make yourself look better is there? You strike me as if you have some complex issue's and are trying to prove something to everyone... What i actually said, and everyone is able to go read the post to see.... traders tend to fall into two camps, those who find volume useful and those that don't find it useful. I said that 'I PERSONALLY' don't find volume useful at all because volume on it's own doesn't give you any information. A volume indicator is not telling you what side of the market the trades are taking place, and at what exact price the size is trading, and volume alone isn't able to show you were supply is being aborbed by demand or where demand is being absorbed by supply, and this is extremely important when you are trading large size, which goes back to my point of a trader trading larger size has to be more selective in order to execute all his size. Seeing as you clearly think you know it all, tell me this... with just volume alone, how are you able to see where people are stuck long or short in the market and at exactly what prices their stops are liquidating which provides the best opportunity to use large size? You obviosuly don't know this, and you obviously haven't traded any size before, and this leads us nicely back to the first question of who's the better trader... the 10lot tea boy on the trading desk, or the 5000 lot trader...

As for you laughs about comments regarding sims/graduates.... Once again if you were indeed a professional trader, you'll know that there is a very high cost involved in training new traders on a trading desk. The cost of of CQG, TT, Reuters etc per head on the desk is extremely expensive, and it's not cost effective to have people just sat on a simulator for months, and that's why firms quickly weed out the no hopers such as yourself. Also you're stating you're a professional trader at a firm or investment bank that has no graduate recuitment program? Your spare bedroom doesn't count as a professional outfit you know...

Also, yet another point... if you were or are a professional trader... what are you doing trading through AMP which is an introducing retail broker? That's what you have listed in your profile...

You see, the problem here my friend... when you prance around talking rubbish trying to pretend you're something that you're not, one day you bump into someone who is actually someone who you're trying to portray yourself to be, and they pick you to bits infront of everyone for everyone to see you for the fool that you are. Have some respect for the industry and the people that have earned the right to be a professional trader.

Oh and for the record.... no I wasn't downloading an indicator, I was messing around with data files...

my sincere apologies. you're absolutely right. I made that all up.

please continue with your contributions. very much appreciated.

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  #100 (permalink)
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"Unfortunately" that is must to avoid most retail brokers and search/use as "direct" and pro service as trader can (clearing firms, but again not all) due to various reasons

Krgds,
Andrew


Lynx21 View Post

what are you doing trading through "ABC" which is an introducing retail broker?


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