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ACD trading By Mark Fisher
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ACD trading By Mark Fisher

  #231 (permalink)
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ACD

Markets in Profile. I never get tired of listening to Mr. Jim Dalton webinars. I was confused when I first heard from Jim Dalton during one of his presentations that he is not a Market Profile Trader ( about a year ago).

I was like , I have spent 200 hours reading his book, articles, listening to webinars etc.. and now after all this he is talking about that he is not a market profile trader? I gave up on using Market Profile to trade CL.

After a year of using Mark Fisher ACD method to day trade CL and using concepts of Mr. Dalton to get a handle on market structure etc..I finally understand what he meant when he said " He is not a Market Profile" trader.

In summary, I would not have been able to trade successfully solely based on Mark Fisher book. For me, Jim Dalton book gave macro picture and mark Fisher book gave " EXECUTION" of macro picture. It is just not possible to cover everything in one book.

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ACD trading By Mark Fisher-2012-01-01_1032_jd.png  

Last edited by mfbreakout; January 1st, 2012 at 11:07 AM.
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  #232 (permalink)
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ACD

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Thanks Fat Tails for sharing your knowledge.

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ACD


Following is an example , how Mr. Steidlmayer expanded my ACD.

" Once the market completes its growth phase and becomes static, a third stage occurs which makes the market most efficient. A price that best serves all participants is located and utilized. Essentially, the market is heavily influenced by the first two stages, while the third stage exerts a latent influence through time. Price handicaps the market in the same way weight handicaps a racehorse- ultimately, both are slowed as a result.

In terms of distribution, market movement would be contained by a CENTRAL PRICE where distribution and development are proportionally related to the static range of the distribution".

I used to read paragraphs like above again and again but could not get a handle on my LOVE- CL (lol). And finally, I read Mark Fisher and CL being down $8 in 3 days and then up $12 in next 6 days started to make sense and how to EXECUTE it.

Once, I got through initial phase of ACD success, there were days when i needed more than ACD. That's when my earlier readings of market profile, Mr. Vic Sperandeo, Market Wizards books etc.. started to help.


Point being, if i have to do it again, I will first read a book which helps with EXECUTION ( for me it is MF book) and then read all the other wonderful books.

I started with Market Wizard and about 100 other wonderful books but all of them had little to show in terms of EXECUTION. At first stage of my development I needed a book from a master trader like Mark Fisher.


Note: I do not want to start a discussion as to which book is better etc.. Just sharing my thoughts for new traders.

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ACD

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What value do you place on the webinars on FIO?

 

Fat Tails View Post
The charts do not show the breakout levels and pivots, on which the ACD method is based.

Below is yesterday's chart for CL 02-12. The main ETH pivot (and prior day's VWAP) are located at 100.82. The blue range is the pivot range, which can be considered as a trend filter. The gray range is the night session range (101.72 - 100.68), the red bit is the opening range for the first 45 minutes. Fisher uses 45 minutes for CL, but smaller opening periods for other instruments.

The A-Down level is obtained by subtracting 8 ticks from the lower end of the opening range, the C-Down level by subtracting 13 ticks from the lower end of the opening range. For a valid A-Down, CL should remain at least 23 minutes (half the opening period) below the A-Down level.

A valid A-Down was made at 10:48 AM EST. There was a short signal at 11:18 AM, as indicated by the MACDBBLines (zero line rejection, second entry). As possible targets you could have taken the floor pivot S1 or the prior day's low, which had to be tested.

Chart attached:

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Here is a link I found that is a bit outdated, but shows some basics to the technique. So, basically it is really a breakout system with predetermined breakout levels measured by ATR.

You have A level trades that either succeed or fail. If they fail, then C level trades are basically A level trades except placed a little further out.

The issue with this boy is in a ranging market I could see a few days of getting your ass kicked.

Curious, but does the book talk about TP area?

Link:
http://www.investopedia.com/articles/technical/04/032404.asp#axzz1iEG4ak00

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  #236 (permalink)
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bluemele View Post
Here is a link I found that is a bit outdated, but shows some basics to the technique. So, basically it is really a breakout system with predetermined breakout levels measured by ATR.

You have A level trades that either succeed or fail. If they fail, then C level trades are basically A level trades except placed a little further out.

The issue with this boy is in a ranging market I could see a few days of getting your ass kicked.

Curious, but does the book talk about TP area?

Honestly, I do not know, what you call TP area.

Mark Fisher's book has nothing to do with market profile. @mfbreakout just mentioned that he likes to combine the price-volume analysis as suggested by Jim Dalton with the breakout system of Mark Fisher.

I personally do not use market profile. Market profile is more based on the mode of a price-volume distribution, whereas I prefer to use the VWAP with standard deviation bands. The VWAP is the arithmetic average of the price volume distribution.

I also do not use the breakout levels as defined by Mark Fisher ( A and C levels). The problem is that the breakout level is only confirmed, when price stays above the breakout level for more than half the opening period. So you have to wait for that time to expire and then enter on a retracement back to the breakout level, if possible (see chart 1 attached).

The noise bands do not require any opening range, but simply refer to the opening price itself. The advantage is that you do not need to wait for 45 minutes and then for the confirmation, but the range plots immediately.

Attached Thumbnails
ACD trading By Mark Fisher-cl-02-12-5-min-30_12_2011-chart-1.jpg   ACD trading By Mark Fisher-cl-02-12-5-min-30_12_2011-chart-2.jpg  
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MF,
You are giving gems on this site.. ACD/MP/VP are some of the best concepts out there.. Your beyond ACD concept is another gem.. Good stuff.. Those Shaolin Kung Fu moves (along with a few others) started me off on butt kicking rap song posting campaigns....ha

Happy New Year!!

LL Cool J -- It Gets No Rougher - YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqwzTkb8j9I

Jedi
"and may the force be with you.."


Last edited by Jedi; January 1st, 2012 at 05:10 PM.
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Fat Tails View Post
Honestly, I do not know, what you call TP area.

Mark Fisher's book has nothing to do with market profile. @mfbreakout just mentioned that he likes to combine the price-volume analysis as suggested by Jim Dalton with the breakout system of Mark Fisher.

I personally do not use market profile. Market profile is more based on the mode of a price-volume distribution, whereas I prefer to use the VWAP with standard deviation bands. The VWAP is the arithmetic average of the price volume distribution.

I also do not use the breakout levels as defined by Mark Fisher ( A and C levels). The problem is that the breakout level is only confirmed, when price stays above the breakout level for more than half the opening period. So you have to wait for that time to expire and then enter on a retracement back to the breakout level, if possible (see chart 1 attached).

The noise bands do not require any opening range, but simply refer to the opening price itself. The advantage is that you do not need to wait for 45 minutes and then for the confirmation, but the range plots immediately.


Fat Tails,
How do I learn more about the noise bands? Is it a download? How do I get it?
Thx,
Jedi

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Jedi View Post
Fat Tails,
How do I learn more about the noise bands? Is it a download? How do I get it?
Thx,
Jedi

The noise band is a simple indicator, but it requires the use of a session template.

The daily noise is the smaller of (High - Open) and (Open - Low), or the smaller move from the open, which I consider being the move which was required for testing the value area, but did not attract the majority of the traders.

The indicator calculates the average noise for the last M and N days. Default setting is M = 10 days and N = 20 days. The average noise is the added and subtracted from the current open. The chart attached below shows the noise for the last two trading days.

The indicator can be found in the download section as SessionNoiseBands.

https://futures.io/download/ninjatrader-7/indicators/750-download.html?view

Attached Thumbnails
ACD trading By Mark Fisher-cl-02-12-15-min-30_12_2011.jpg  
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  #240 (permalink)
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Fat Tails View Post
The noise band is a simple indicator, but it requires the use of a session template.

The daily noise is the smaller of (High - Open) and (Open - Low), or the smaller move from the open, which I consider being the move which was required for testing the value area, but did not attract the majority of the traders.

The indicator calculates the average noise for the last M and N days. Default setting is M = 10 days and N = 20 days. The average noise is the added and subtracted from the current open. The chart attached below shows the noise for the last two trading days.

The indicator can be found in the download section as SessionNoiseBands.

https://futures.io/download/ninjatrader-7/indicators/750-download.html?view

Fat Tails,
Thx! This concept makes a lot of sense and is very similar to the ACD concept.. I can see how this concept can be very complimentary to VWAP as well.. I'll put it on and try it out.. Much thanks and Happy New Year!!
Jedi

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