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Trapped traders - a source of consistent profitability?
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Trapped traders - a source of consistent profitability?

  #21 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
USA
 
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Posts: 7 since Oct 2010
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thank you bids very much. i will try to apply this response to my learning process and i'll post any other questions that may appear in the future.

i would also love to hear your life story as well.

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  #22 (permalink)
Membership Temporarily Revoked
United Kingdom
 
Futures Experience: Master
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ideaman View Post
Hi Bids:
I've been pondering this question for quite awhile and still haven't found the answer. Who is moving the market? Everybody out there are using high tech quants, TA, fundamentals etc.etc you name it, waiting to jump on the next rally or decline. The pits know who the big guns are so they too are watching. So how can any big gun move the market to their desired level without being discovered and front run'd?

TIA,

Dominick

This is a good type of question that a new trader should be asking. There's a lot of ignorance out there in general about how the markets work because people simply don't know. Once you reach the level where you're a big fish, it isn't as simple as just buy or sell as many contracts as you want. When you start moving up in the layer cake, stuff like iceburg orders and dark liquidity pools come into play, all designed to hide a players hand to avoid an abnormal impact by large orders executing...

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  #23 (permalink)
Membership Temporarily Revoked
United Kingdom
 
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dwusbu View Post
thank you bids very much. i will try to apply this response to my learning process and i'll post any other questions that may appear in the future.

i would also love to hear your life story as well.

No special story, at the end of the day trading is just a job like any other job. Many people getting onto the bank line at 5:30am Mon - Fri are making hand over fist trading each day, but we're just regular people like everyone else... Yeah people like to hear a rags to riches story, but the reality is go to school, graduate, get a job, and if you're good at your job and work hard you make money.

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  #24 (permalink)
Elite Member
Italy (IT)
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
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LukeGeniol's Avatar
 
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Bids View Post
This is a good type of question that a new trader should be asking. There's a lot of ignorance out there in general about how the markets work because people simply don't know. Once you reach the level where you're a big fish, it isn't as simple as just buy or sell as many contracts as you want. When you start moving up in the layer cake, stuff like iceburg orders and dark liquidity pools come into play, all designed to hide a players hand to avoid an abnormal impact by large orders executing...

Don't think there'are dark liquidity pools for Futures Markets , or at least I'm not aware, anyway they have not a directly impact on market behavior, but for what I know they only take off liquidity, and this is an issue for stocks, especially for those with little capital.
About iceberging and HFT, they can be tracked with some tricks, but is not simple to figure out their impact on order flow, a more comprehensive analysis is needed.

Take your Pips, go out and Live.
Luke.

Last edited by LukeGeniol; November 4th, 2010 at 05:52 PM. Reason: corrected some words
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  #25 (permalink)
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LukeGeniol View Post
Don't think there'are dark liquidity pools for Futures Markets , or at least I'm not aware, anyway they have not a directly impact on market behavior, but for what I know they only take off liquidity, and this is an issue for stocks, especially for those with little capital.
About iceberging and HFT, they can be tracked with some tricks, but is not simple to figure out their impact on order flow, a more comprehensive analysis is needed.

It wasn't a definitive answer, it was merely stating that other things come into play higher up the ladder. I also never said it's specific to futures markets, the original question was a general question about 'the market' I don't think how to track iceberg orders is really something that anyone here is ever going to have to do even if they are quite successful later on down the line....

HFT, don't get me started on that, its impact on most prop traders is extremely minimal. It's just a good excuse for the useless ones who every few years come up with new excuses. For a while it was the flipper who was stopping them from making money, and now days it's HFT apparently lol, or in reality it could just be because they can't move with the times. If one of my traders had a bad run and blamed it on HFT then I would tell him to go home and not come back. If you're a good trader then you can adapt to the market as it changes and as new technology comes along. If you reach a point where you can't adapt, then you've simply reached your personal level of incompetence.

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  #26 (permalink)
Elite Member
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Bids View Post
...If you want to trade then you need to learn how to play the dog eat dog game as that is what trading is and that is how you should view it. To do this you need to read the orders that are trading and resting at each price too see what is actually happening, then you will learn the games that are being played every day. Stay away from software like market delta as it's just a gimmic. If it did what it said on the tin, then every investment bank and prop firm would be using it...

Bid, how do you interpret 'the orders that are trading and resting at each price' ? Can you give just ONE example of a trade setup that is compatible with this approach ?

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  #27 (permalink)
Just starting out...
Phoenix, AZ, US
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: TradeStation
Favorite Futures: ES, EUR/USD
 
Posts: 6 since Nov 2010
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Be Very Cautious of Posts from Bids

Be very cautious of posts from Bids. Especially when he refers to his blog. Almost all of his blog posts are a copy/paste from Futex.
Here are 2 examples:
From Inconsistent to Consistent – what does it take to be a successful trader? | Futex
Bids & Offers: From Inconsistent to Consistent - what does it take to be a successful trader?

The Psychology Behind Gut Feel | Futex
Bids & Offers: The Psychology Behind Gut Feel

TradeStack

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  #28 (permalink)
Market Wizard
virginia
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
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so who cut & paste who?

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  #29 (permalink)
Just starting out...
Phoenix, AZ, US
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: TradeStation
Favorite Futures: ES, EUR/USD
 
Posts: 6 since Nov 2010
Thanks: 0 given, 2 received

Well, for the Psychology post, it was posted on Futek on 24 Sep 2010. It was posted on bids&offers on 18 Oct 2010.
You tell me.
Care to comment Bids?

TradeStack

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  #30 (permalink)
Elite Member
Canada
 
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check out new post at bigmikestrading and traderslaboratory about "BIDS"

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