How to use volume in your trading - Traders Hideout | futures io social day trading
futures io futures trading


How to use volume in your trading
Updated: Views / Replies:170,255 / 677
Created: by cunparis Attachments:203

Welcome to futures io.

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

futures io is the largest futures trading community on the planet, with over 90,000 members. At futures io, our goal has always been and always will be to create a friendly, positive, forward-thinking community where members can openly share and discuss everything the world of trading has to offer. The community is one of the friendliest you will find on any subject, with members going out of their way to help others. Some of the primary differences between futures io and other trading sites revolve around the standards of our community. Those standards include a code of conduct for our members, as well as extremely high standards that govern which partners we do business with, and which products or services we recommend to our members.

At futures io, our focus is on quality education. No hype, gimmicks, or secret sauce. The truth is: trading is hard. To succeed, you need to surround yourself with the right support system, educational content, and trading mentors – all of which you can find on futures io, utilizing our social trading environment.

With futures io, you can find honest trading reviews on brokers, trading rooms, indicator packages, trading strategies, and much more. Our trading review process is highly moderated to ensure that only genuine users are allowed, so you don’t need to worry about fake reviews.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading sites:
  • We are here to help. Just let us know what you need.
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive in our community.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, we can help you find it.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.

You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

Reply
 203  
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 

How to use volume in your trading

  #511 (permalink)
Elite Member
Portugal
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninjatrader, Multicharts
Broker/Data: Amp Futures/Zen-Fire
Favorite Futures: ES, 6E
 
Braulio's Avatar
 
Posts: 230 since Aug 2009
Thanks: 404 given, 216 received

Michael,

Know exactly what you mean, although not that easy to see, once you get used to it there's nothing like it!
Saw that happening today on the 6E between 13:52 and 14:00(GMT+1).
I don't record my trades but when I go back to market replay to make a video of it (I use Ninja), it doesn't look the same. I mean, I don't see EXACTLY what I saw when I was live in the market!
The speed at which I saw things happening in the ladder isn't the same.
Maybe market replay doesn't replicate everything that happens, or at the same speed, I don't know.
But I think a video is really helpful and an excellent training tool!

Let us know when you have it ready!


Michael.H View Post
Thats why i think most people fail. They treat everything with rigid rules, like if they see alot of trades at the bid, then someone is selling real hard, so you must go short. If a hammer forms, you need to take a long. If you get a green bar at a MA, you go long.

You will never make money doing that. You need to see what happens, and then react.

If you see huge orders being traded at the bid, and it stalls there for 5 min, and fails to go lower( meaning all it can muster is 1-2 ticks more to the downside), and starts trading back up, then thats bullish. Now if you see orders picking up at the ask a few ticks higher after this, then you have a reason to go long with a reasonably small stops. Its exactly what cunparis said, someone is absorbing the selling, or its a limit buyer. You don't know until the market tips its hand.

People treat their indicators like a buy and sell switch. Thats why you constantly hear people on these forums talking about how its impossible to make money.

I kind of wish i could show you guys a video ( I record all my live trades), but the files are huge, and my DOM is on there, with my account number.

If enough people are interested, i could try to do one using the ladder and record without my dom( with chart trader on) so you guys can see the trade. Ill put a separate dom up on sim so you can see the level II


Reply With Quote
 
  #512 (permalink)
Trade with the flow
Paris, France
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Market Delta & Ninjatrader
Favorite Futures: ES
 
cunparis's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,563 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 1,157 given, 2,030 received

VSA is very useful. It makes assumptions about the volume, where it occurred and who was the dominant side. Some of those assumptions can be clarified/proven by looking at time & sales and/or volume profiles & ladders.

Be careful using indicators such as buy/sell pressure as all this is very context specific and those indicators ignore context. One can study time & sales, DOM, & volume ladder rather than use an indicator.

Reply With Quote
 
  #513 (permalink)
Elite Member
Germany
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: FlatTrader
Broker/Data: GFT and Interactive Brokers
Favorite Futures: ES, DAX
 
Posts: 531 since Aug 2010
Thanks: 2,121 given, 719 received



Quoting 
I am experimenting with the buysellvolume and buysellpressure indicators from ninjatrader .....

@mystic,

I also experimented with both of them but found no value or at least I couldnīt figure any out.



Quoting 
Try Investor R/T (or MarketDelta,but IRT is cheaper and just as good) .. the volume breakdown indicator does what you want.

@josh,

Thanks for the tip.
Iīm curious if one can also use Gomiīs volume delta bars but as far as I remember, he use bid and ask values to generate the bars. Do you use IRT and if yes, have you compared it with gomiīs delta bars and what are your experience / conclusion with IRT?

Thanks and best Regards,
Abde

Reply With Quote
 
  #514 (permalink)
Membership Revoked
new york
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninjatrader
Broker/Data: mb trading
Favorite Futures: 6e
 
bobbyacim's Avatar
 
Posts: 184 since Feb 2010
Thanks: 598 given, 140 received



Silvester17,

Yes it is a very powerful tool indeed, gives me a holistic view of the market like nothing I have ever seen before!

Do you merge multiple profiles together to get a longer time frame picture of the market?
I do both, analyze the sessions and the longer term profile the nite before.

Reply With Quote
 
  #515 (permalink)
Elite Member
Portugal
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninjatrader, Multicharts
Broker/Data: Amp Futures/Zen-Fire
Favorite Futures: ES, 6E
 
Braulio's Avatar
 
Posts: 230 since Aug 2009
Thanks: 404 given, 216 received

Are you using an indicator for your VSA? Because I use range bars, time is something I don't take advantage of. With the bettervolume indicator, Fat Tails says it can't be used on all time frames. Between 3 to 10 minutes is the best choice. How are you using VSA?

Do you look at time&sales with your PACEOFTAPE indicator? I use it on the 6E to measure market activity. The mornings are usually boring to trade (GMT+1). Thank you for this great indicator by the way


cunparis View Post
VSA is very useful. It makes assumptions about the volume, where it occurred and who was the dominant side. Some of those assumptions can be clarified/proven by looking at time & sales and/or volume profiles & ladders.

Be careful using indicators such as buy/sell pressure as all this is very context specific and those indicators ignore context. One can study time & sales, DOM, & volume ladder rather than use an indicator.


Reply With Quote
 
  #516 (permalink)
Elite Member
Georgia, US
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: Various
Favorite Futures: Various
 
josh's Avatar
 
Posts: 4,897 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 5,143 given, 11,242 received


Abde View Post
@josh,

Thanks for the tip.
Iīm curious if one can also use Gomiīs volume delta bars but as far as I remember, he use bid and ask values to generate the bars. Do you use IRT and if yes, have you compared it with gomiīs delta bars and what are your experience / conclusion with IRT?

Thanks and best Regards,
Abde

Adbe,

I used to use IRT but when I stopped using volume profiling I found it not worth the additional cost as I had to have another program to place orders. I have not used gomi's stuff in actual trading but when I've put them on the chart I've found them to be similar. If you use NT for everything and can get gomi's stuff to work, it's worth it to me not to have to run 2 programs. But like I said I don't use any of that stuff much. You can try IRT for a month at a time, it's $75 per month and quite a nice program, just not for my needs.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to josh for this post:
 
  #517 (permalink)
Elite Member
Germany
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: FlatTrader
Broker/Data: GFT and Interactive Brokers
Favorite Futures: ES, DAX
 
Posts: 531 since Aug 2010
Thanks: 2,121 given, 719 received


Quoting 
Adbe,

I used to use IRT but when I stopped using volume profiling I found it not worth the additional cost as I had to have another program to place orders. I have not used gomi's stuff in actual trading but when I've put them on the chart I've found them to be similar. If you use NT for everything and can get gomi's stuff to work, it's worth it to me not to have to run 2 programs. But like I said I don't use any of that stuff much. You can try IRT for a month at a time, it's $75 per month and quite a nice program, just not for my needs.

josh,,

Thanks for your answer. I will try gomis volume delta bars and see if itīs useful.

Reply With Quote
 
  #518 (permalink)
Just starting out...
London
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Pair Options
Favorite Futures: Stocks
 
Posts: 7 since Apr 2011
Thanks: 0 given, 0 received


cunparis View Post
VSA is very useful. It makes assumptions about the volume, where it occurred and who was the dominant side. Some of those assumptions can be clarified/proven by looking at time & sales and/or volume profiles & ladders.

Be careful using indicators such as buy/sell pressure as all this is very context specific and those indicators ignore context. One can study time & sales, DOM, & volume ladder rather than use an indicator.

Thank you, this is some advice worth taking when trading in general

Reply With Quote
 
  #519 (permalink)
Elite Member
Berlin, Europe
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader, MultiCharts
Broker/Data: Interactive Brokers
Favorite Futures: Keyboard
 
Fat Tails's Avatar
 
Posts: 9,651 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 4,226 given, 25,600 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary

Limits of Volume Spread Analysis


Braulio View Post
Are you using an indicator for your VSA? Because I use range bars, time is something I don't take advantage of. With the bettervolume indicator, Fat Tails says it can't be used on all time frames. Between 3 to 10 minutes is the best choice. How are you using VSA?


The better volume indicator is a VSA indicator, in the sense that it exclusively relies on the analysis of spread and volume. It uses a lookback period of 20 bars and identifies events, where either the product of volume and range, the ratio of volume per range or volume itself are highest or lowest over the lookback period.

The problem occurs, when you use it in a way that some of these 20 bars are pre-session bars (which always have a lower volume) and some of them regular session bars. You will get lot of signals, when the regular session starts, which you have to ignore.

For example, if you use the better volume on a 15 minute chart, it will give you reliable signals prior to the session start. Then it will trigger lots of signals anyhow, which cannot be used. Once you are 20 x 15 minutes = 5 hours into the session, the signals will have the same quality as before. So there is a blind spot after the session start. Even if you reduce the lookback period to 10 bars, the blind spot will still be 2 and half hours.

Now with 5 min bars, the blind spot is about 100 min, with 3 minute bars it is exactly one hour. If you just use 1 min bars, the blind spot will only be 20 minutes, but 1 min bars may not be reliable, at the high volume bar may just show a large order that was dropped. I have personally found that signals from 1 min bars are not significant, and I want to see a sustained pressure over a longer period of time.

The Better Volume indicator works well on daily charts, as these are not affected by low pre-session volume.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Fat Tails for this post:
 
  #520 (permalink)
Elite Member
Portugal
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninjatrader, Multicharts
Broker/Data: Amp Futures/Zen-Fire
Favorite Futures: ES, 6E
 
Braulio's Avatar
 
Posts: 230 since Aug 2009
Thanks: 404 given, 216 received


Fat Tails,

That makes sense but how about a 24h market like the 6E?
The product/ration of volume and range oscillates all the time. Sure it has an European, US and Asian session but it's not linear. In the European session, for example, I can see the market stop for 2/3 hours after RTH and start again when the forex markets open (before US RTH).

This means I have to count another blind spot after I see the market start again, because it's low pressure volume, right?


Fat Tails View Post
The better volume indicator is a VSA indicator, in the sense that it exclusively relies on the analysis of spread and volume. It uses a lookback period of 20 bars and identifies events, where either the product of volume and range, the ratio of volume per range or volume itself are highest or lowest over the lookback period.

The problem occurs, when you use it in a way that some of these 20 bars are pre-session bars (which always have a lower volume) and some of them regular session bars. You will get lot of signals, when the regular session starts, which you have to ignore.

For example, if you use the better volume on a 15 minute chart, it will give you reliable signals prior to the session start. Then it will trigger lots of signals anyhow, which cannot be used. Once you are 20 x 15 minutes = 5 hours into the session, the signals will have the same quality as before. So there is a blind spot after the session start. Even if you reduce the lookback period to 10 bars, the blind spot will still be 2 and half hours.

Now with 5 min bars, the blind spot is about 100 min, with 3 minute bars it is exactly one hour. If you just use 1 min bars, the blind spot will only be 20 minutes, but 1 min bars may not be reliable, at the high volume bar may just show a large order that was dropped. I have personally found that signals from 1 min bars are not significant, and I want to see a sustained pressure over a longer period of time.

The Better Volume indicator works well on daily charts, as these are not affected by low pre-session volume.


Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Braulio for this post:

Reply



futures io > > > How to use volume in your trading

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)

Linda Bradford Raschke: Reading The Tape

Elite only

Adam Grimes: TBA

Elite only

NinjaTrader: TBA

January

Ran Aroussi: TBA

Elite only
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cumulative Delta Volume Trading Big Mike The Elite Circle 980 December 10th, 2017 07:17 AM
volume trading indicator tony2604 Traders Hideout 10 March 17th, 2011 03:34 PM
Volume trading - fictive scenario trendisyourfriend The Elite Circle 6 December 16th, 2010 05:16 PM
Price & Volume Trading Journal ZTR Trading Journals 117 February 21st, 2010 04:02 AM
Multi Volume/Time Frame Trading wh The Elite Circle 7 September 15th, 2009 05:55 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:36 AM.

Copyright © 2017 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts
Page generated 2017-12-12 in 0.16 seconds with 20 queries on phoenix via your IP 54.145.51.250