How to use volume in your trading - Traders Hideout | futures io social day trading
futures io futures trading


How to use volume in your trading
Updated: Views / Replies:175,610 / 677
Created: by cunparis Attachments:203

Welcome to futures io.

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

futures io is the largest futures trading community on the planet, with over 90,000 members. At futures io, our goal has always been and always will be to create a friendly, positive, forward-thinking community where members can openly share and discuss everything the world of trading has to offer. The community is one of the friendliest you will find on any subject, with members going out of their way to help others. Some of the primary differences between futures io and other trading sites revolve around the standards of our community. Those standards include a code of conduct for our members, as well as extremely high standards that govern which partners we do business with, and which products or services we recommend to our members.

At futures io, our focus is on quality education. No hype, gimmicks, or secret sauce. The truth is: trading is hard. To succeed, you need to surround yourself with the right support system, educational content, and trading mentors Ė all of which you can find on futures io, utilizing our social trading environment.

With futures io, you can find honest trading reviews on brokers, trading rooms, indicator packages, trading strategies, and much more. Our trading review process is highly moderated to ensure that only genuine users are allowed, so you donít need to worry about fake reviews.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading sites:
  • We are here to help. Just let us know what you need.
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive in our community.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, we can help you find it.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.

You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

Reply
 203  
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 

How to use volume in your trading

  #211 (permalink)
 Vendor: www.innovative-trading-solutions-online.com 
Hartford, CT. USA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: AMP/CQG, Kinetick
Favorite Futures: TF
 
RJay's Avatar
 
Posts: 677 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 726 given, 740 received


sam028 View Post
Maybe using the "duration", the time elasped between N ticks during X minutes with more than Y volume ?

I'm not using a lot volume indicators, for futures contracts, I'll try to explain why.
Let's say I'm a big guy.
I can play with 5000 ES cars.
I'm not speculating, I don't care if the ES is going up or down, I'm just here to hedge the huge stocks portfolios I'm managing for my institutional customers.
I just want to be delta neutral, that's it.
So, when I (in fact my bots) have to buy/sell my futures contracts, to keep my portfolios in a delta neutral position, do you want everybody being able to see it (hey !!! Mr X is hedging, now, let's use this information !!!) ?
Hell no, that will be very bad for me !
So, what am I doing ? Selling 1K ES MKT ?
No, I'm splitting my 1k orders in small orders, using VWAP, and sell/buy them as fast as possible.
So, no big volume then. Just more ticks/seconds for this "hedge point". But this point is important, and means something.
In fact, if 10 big Mr X do the something at the same time/price.

Try to google "A Smooth Transition Autoregressive Conditional Duration Model" and/or "Autoregressive Conditional Duration: A New Model for Irregularly Spaced Transaction Data", you'll maybe have another point of view, and maybe something smarter than just volumes indicators.

I'm not working on this for a long time, so I'm maybe wrong, but I like the idea...

Hi Sam,

I have made a major commitment to research every aspect of volume.

I have been at it for 4 months now.

I have learned a lot. I really should release some more volume indicators to the VIP area.

With all the ways of measuring volume that I have developed now at my disposal, I have posed this question to myself.

If I were a mega trader how would I enter and exit the markets without anyone seeing me do it?

I am using "The Secret" to accomplish this.

I would like to think I am making progress.

I also believe that they breakdown their orders size to say under the radar.

I am now working at data collection methods of these orders to reassemble their orders to see what is really going on!!!

Time will Tell,

RJay

P.S. HJay, thanks for linking to that news indicator. I love it!!!!!

Reply With Quote
 
  #212 (permalink)
Trade with the flow
Paris, France
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Market Delta & Ninjatrader
Favorite Futures: ES
 
cunparis's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,563 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 1,157 given, 2,032 received


RJay View Post
If I were a mega trader how would I enter and exit the markets without anyone seeing me do it?

I have a few comments here:

1 - the CME order reporting changes help to mask large orders by breaking them up into smaller ones. This helps large traders hide their size.

2 - A hundred 100 lot orders should mean about the same thing as ten 1,000 lot orders. Just cause someone trades 1,000 lots doesn't mean he knows more than the 100 lot traders. It's the collective total that's important. If there are a hundred 100 lot traders against a million 1 lot traders, who will win?

3 - Price moves along and then it will turn. Why? Usually cause it a change in supply & demand. If price runs into supply, it'll turn down. If price meets demand, it'll rise. Think of an item on sale at a store. Its price will move up and down just like a futures contract. When there is no demand and a lot of supply a retailer will mark the price down. Demand comes in and supply dries up so price goes up.

The GF1 is a new camera from Panasonic. Some of us photography enthusiasts have been waiting years for this camera. It sells for $899. I went to amazon.com the other day and the price was $1199. $1199 for a $899 camera. Why? Cause amazon.com ran out and when they do they link to another retailer (taking a small commission). The other retailer figures they'll only get buyers if amazon is out and if that's the case they can put a higher price.

So what we want is to see a change in the supply/demand. I use HVC for this. HVC shows a large number of shares traded in a short range. That means, using supply as an example, price was rising looking for sellers and sellers appeared. So price couldn't rise. Thus a short range and high volume.

This also shows a transfer of ownership from buyers to sellers. The sellers will defend their position by selling into any attempts to move above their entry price. As a result price will usually test the supply point and if there is not enough demand price will then head down looking for demand.

Sometimes demand comes in and price will push above the sellers' entry price. This is called a breakout and usually results in at least a scalp profit.

HVC isn't the only way to use volume. VSA is also very useful. When I created this thread I had intended to make some VSA indicators, but I ended up not needing them because HVC works well enough for me.

I'm also experimenting with Cory's Volume Stop but I prefer to let someone explain how they use it cause I'm still playing around with it.

So there are lots of tools for the job but it all comes down to supply & demand and detecting a change from one to the other. Those are your turning points. Add a HH or LL for an entry and put the stop under the turning point (the HVC low or the low prior to it) and sit back and relax.

Here are two CL trades I did on Friday. I look for several setups to line up, increasing my chances for a winning trade:

1 - HVC
2 - A sine wave or phase shift cross (see my version of the d9 phase shift oscillator in the VIP section)
3 - Bullish / Bearish divergence in volume momentum (not seen, it only works on tradestation)
4 - A brooks H2/L2 pattern

When all 3 line up it's a high probability trade. I go for a couple of those and then I quit.

Attached Thumbnails
How to use volume in your trading-20091023-cl-trades-blz.png  
Reply With Quote
 
  #213 (permalink)
Trade with the flow
Paris, France
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Market Delta & Ninjatrader
Favorite Futures: ES
 
cunparis's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,563 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 1,157 given, 2,032 received



Dragon View Post
Thanks Cunparis for the download update. BTW, I am really looking forward to using a volume pattern paintbar by itself without the histogram.
Chris

I discovered an easy way to do this, you can find it here:

https://futures.io/free_downloads/ninjatrader/indicators/135-download.html?action=jump

Reply With Quote
 
  #214 (permalink)
Trade with the flow
Paris, France
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Market Delta & Ninjatrader
Favorite Futures: ES
 
cunparis's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,563 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 1,157 given, 2,032 received


mroalan View Post
hi all,have been following for awhile, does anyone market any of the systems as a package.a lot of you here are far to technical for me but i understand the effect of volume.

I'm not sure what you mean by "package". Just pick 1 indicator, I think Cory's volume stop is easier to use than my HVC so I'd suggest starting with that. Learn to use it. Master it. Could take a week, could take a month. Then once you're successful with it then try adding something else if necessary.

Reply With Quote
 
  #215 (permalink)
Trade with the flow
Paris, France
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Market Delta & Ninjatrader
Favorite Futures: ES
 
cunparis's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,563 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 1,157 given, 2,032 received

Here is friday's chart with both volume patterns & volume stop.

I'm very impressed with the volume stop and will be using it this week. If I see HVC & Volume Stop signaling at the same time then I think it's an even higher probability trade. In this chart VS got 8/8 trades correct. Pretty amazing.

Attached Thumbnails
How to use volume in your trading-20091023-cl-volume-stop-hvc-comparison.png  
Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to cunparis for this post:
 
  #216 (permalink)
Big game hunter
NY
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Esignal, MBT navigator
Favorite Futures: Currencies
 
Posts: 2,526 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 1,397 given, 2,570 received


cunparis View Post
Here is friday's chart with both volume patterns & volume stop.

I'm very impressed with the volume stop and will be using it this week. If I see HVC & Volume Stop signaling at the same time then I think it's an even higher probability trade. In this chart VS got 8/8 trades correct. Pretty amazing.

Nice chart , I'm slowly reading through your thread here and find it very thorough Cunparis , thanks . I might even give the volume stop indi a try monday . I have been seeing potential in volume divergence and volume exhaustion . The latter is good at pointing to reversals . When I see a BIG volume spike with the trend then a countertrend signal , it usually means price will reverse if even for a short while .

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Eric j for this post:
 
  #217 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Columbus, OH
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: NT 8, TOS
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Silvester17's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,332 since Aug 2009
Thanks: 4,579 given, 10,313 received


cunparis View Post
Here is friday's chart with both volume patterns & volume stop.

I'm very impressed with the volume stop and will be using it this week. If I see HVC & Volume Stop signaling at the same time then I think it's an even higher probability trade. In this chart VS got 8/8 trades correct. Pretty amazing.

That's exactly what I use as a confirmation tool. But instead of HVC & VolumeStop, I use VolumeSpike & VolumeStop. And if you have an increase in Volume, that's another indication of a possible reversal. Together with some price patterns you'll get some pretty high probability trades.

Reply With Quote
 
  #218 (permalink)
Trade with the flow
Paris, France
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Market Delta & Ninjatrader
Favorite Futures: ES
 
cunparis's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,563 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 1,157 given, 2,032 received


Silvester17 View Post
I use VolumeSpike and VolumeStop. pretty good in detecting reversals. I think far better than the ones from Emini-Watch.

You my friend are really on to something here! I'm kind of "attached" to using HVC cause I've been using it for over 6 months now. But I'm very impressed with the two indicators you mention.

For a long time I have traded with only 1 price-based indicator (sinewave / phase shift osc) and 2 volume indicators (better volume & my own volume momentum). My volume momentum isn't possible with NT 6.5 cause the data feed doesn't give upticks & downticks, if it were I'd port it and be done with tradestation.

I really feel that limiting myself to 1 price indicator and using volume indicators is much more practical than having many price indicators.

Now, volume patterns + volume stop + volume spike = the ultimate volume trading chart.

Check it out, Friday's CL.

Man I was really sick yesterday, up all night puking and pooping. But on the good side I get to stay in all day, told my wife I was too sick to do anything but sit at the computer. Otherwise I wouldn't have had time to look at these other approaches to trading volume.

Attached Thumbnails
How to use volume in your trading-20091023-cl-volume-stop-hvc-volume-spike.png  
Reply With Quote
 
  #219 (permalink)
Trade with the flow
Paris, France
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Market Delta & Ninjatrader
Favorite Futures: ES
 
cunparis's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,563 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 1,157 given, 2,032 received


Eric j View Post
Nice chart , I'm slowly reading through your thread here and find it very thorough Cunparis , thanks . I might even give the volume stop indi a try monday . I have been seeing potential in volume divergence and volume exhaustion . The latter is good at pointing to reversals . When I see a BIG volume spike with the trend then a countertrend signal , it usually means price will reverse if even for a short while .

Thanks for the compliment. I totally agree with your thinking. Whenever there is a volume spike it means all those shares were bought/sold from the other side. And when high volume traders go against the trend they usually stop the trend.

I love trading reversals because I can keep a tight stop and go for a quick win, not giving a crap about what the market is doing. I usually set my stop under the high/low of the last 2 bars and take profit at the same as my risk. If I risk 15 ticks I take profit at 15 ticks. As you can see in the charts, these volume patterns have > 50% success rate so a 1:1 ratio works well. I also find they work best in the morning session.

For a while I traded breakouts but my stop was often 30-40 ticks. After a few days losing a couple trades, I went back to trading reversals.

Reply With Quote
 
  #220 (permalink)
 Vendor: www.innovative-trading-solutions-online.com 
Hartford, CT. USA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: AMP/CQG, Kinetick
Favorite Futures: TF
 
RJay's Avatar
 
Posts: 677 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 726 given, 740 received



DavidHP View Post
I've found an example of a volume indicator that I would love to understand more.

There are lots of posts on Traders Lab about it but they seem to want to keep it private. (I'm not criticizing them just my comment).
Here is a quote from that site:
"intensity indicator"
"This indicator detects trade that is of such characteristics that it can only be done by commercial traders"

Seems as if this indicator measures 'intense' volume on a chart. I think similar to the Volume Spike indicator or Cory's VolumeStop indicator.

It measures volume in a way that may not be possible in NT because of the data feed limitations.

I've always thought that volume leads price and this type of indicator would give us a head's up of that condition.

Anyone have any idea how to produce this?

DavidHP,

This looks and sounds like my latest project.

Can you provide any more info that might give insight into how it works.

Chart types, time frames, any coded chit-chat!!!

Thanks,

RJay

Reply With Quote

Reply



futures io > > > How to use volume in your trading

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)

Jigsaw Trading: TBA

Elite only

FuturesTrader71: TBA

Elite only

NinjaTrader: TBA

Jan 18

RandBots: TBA

Jan 23

GFF Brokers & CME Group: Futures & Bitcoin

Elite only

Adam Grimes: TBA

Elite only

Ran Aroussi: TBA

Elite only
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cumulative Delta Volume Trading Big Mike The Elite Circle 980 December 10th, 2017 07:17 AM
volume trading indicator tony2604 Traders Hideout 10 March 17th, 2011 03:34 PM
Volume trading - fictive scenario trendisyourfriend The Elite Circle 6 December 16th, 2010 05:16 PM
Price & Volume Trading Journal ZTR Trading Journals 117 February 21st, 2010 04:02 AM
Multi Volume/Time Frame Trading wh The Elite Circle 7 September 15th, 2009 05:55 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:52 PM.

Copyright © 2017 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts
Page generated 2017-12-16 in 0.21 seconds with 20 queries on phoenix via your IP 54.91.38.173