Is anything better than order flow? - futures io
futures io



Is anything better than order flow?


Discussion in Traders Hideout

Updated
      Top Posters
    1. looks_one RickM with 8 posts (19 thanks)
    2. looks_two Cools81 with 6 posts (3 thanks)
    3. looks_3 yiman with 4 posts (4 thanks)
    4. looks_4 HiLatencyTRDR HLT with 4 posts (11 thanks)
      Best Posters
    1. looks_one tigertrader with 15 thanks per post
    2. looks_two trendisyourfriend with 12 thanks per post
    3. looks_3 FuturesTrader71 with 7 thanks per post
    4. looks_4 RickM with 2.4 thanks per post
    1. trending_up 8,785 views
    2. thumb_up 178 thanks given
    3. group 610 followers
    1. forum 82 posts
    2. attach_file 12 attachments




Welcome to futures io: the largest futures trading community on the planet, with well over 150,000 members
  • Genuine reviews from real traders, not fake reviews from stealth vendors
  • Quality education from leading professional traders
  • We are a friendly, helpful, and positive community
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts
  • We are here to help, just let us know what you need
You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

 
Search this Thread
 

Is anything better than order flow?

(login for full post details)
  #11 (permalink)
 fwddetent 
West New York, NJ
 
Experience: None
 
Posts: 8 since Jul 2011
Thanks: 5 given, 8 received

Really the question you should be asking is how has orderflow been working for you, I mean really. All the fancy terms being slung around here is crazy. Fancy terms like liquidity distribution, deltas, foot prints, whatever!

Everybody here needs to learn how to read a chart.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to fwddetent for this post:

Can you help answer these questions
from other members on futures io?
AddPlotNames2a support thread
NinjaTrader
CQG historical tick data missing trade direction (buy/se …
Traders Hideout
Transferring from computer to computer
TradeStation
convert sierra chart graph to Ninja traders 8
NinjaTrader
East West Petroleum Corp - EW (Canada) – EWPMF (USA) …
Stocks and ETFs
 
Best Threads (Most Thanked)
in the last 7 days on futures io
Ninjatrader Margin Update for Major Events & New Ann …
31 thanks
FootPrintV2 Chart for NT8
18 thanks
Is DOM worth using if I only have access to best 5 bid a …
7 thanks
There is more to trading than charts
6 thanks
Trader Guardian Angel
5 thanks
 
(login for full post details)
  #12 (permalink)
 yiman 
London
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninjatrader, multicharts, MT4
Broker: IB, PFG Best
Trading: 6E, EMD, TF
 
Posts: 264 since Jul 2009
Thanks: 110 given, 156 received


Nasdaq1517 View Post
Where does a beginner go to learn order flow?


Sent using the futures.io mobile app

Try nobsdaytrading or jigsaw

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #13 (permalink)
RickM
Brisbane
 
 
Posts: 11 since Dec 2018
Thanks: 3 given, 19 received


Hi MWF2200

This is just how I trade the market every day, just my opinion.

On the order book, there is always a slight imbalance of Asks or Bids at any one time but normally it ranges between 5 - 8% in favour of one side. A small excess of Asks may tempt the market long or a small excess of Bids may tempt the market to go short but it all depends on the urgency of excuted market orders. For a tradable imbalance to occur, we need volume levels at three times average levels to increase ONE side of the order book by at least 30%. So for example on the ES, volume is 3 times average daily volume and the Asks on the order book are averaging 30% higher in order numbers over Bids - we have a strong and reliable tradable bullish trend that we can profit from. We are also hopeing to capture a cascading stop loss event as an extra bonus, a pay day in itself.

The relationship therefore is market orders need to dominate limit orders by three to one to create this reliable imbalance, the point where this strategy breaks down is if a market that is being heavily absorbed.

Simply we can't trade a market unless the Market orders are dominating Limit orders, or orderflow strategy's will mostly fail because delta data will be useless.

mwf2220 View Post
I found the articles here - https://www.jumpstarttrading.com/order-flow-trading/ - to be quite helpful, and the webinar that Gomi did on his indicator was also very useful to me. He focused quite a bit on the different elements of his footprint charts, but the concepts that underpin them should help you better understand the processes -

I'd also recommend checking out these threads on FIO:





Hope that helps.




Unfortunately, I'm no expert, so I was hoping that @RickM might explain the bolded part of his comment below. I feel like I have a relatively good understanding of the interaction between market and limit orders and how they move, stop, and/or reverse price, but I've been thinking lately about the relationship between delta and volume, too. For example, let's assume you are trading a 10R chart on the MES/ES. If you have a +100 delta on 500 volume compared to a +100 delta on 5000 volume at a similar time of day, I feel like the second bar shows much more conviction than the first bar, which might have just been slicing through a pocket of illiquidity as the market searches out more orders.

When I read your comment, I wondered if you were talking about something similar, but, even if not, I'd be interested to here more about what you meant.

Thanks!


Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to RickM for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #14 (permalink)
Cools81
Melbourne, Australia
 
 
Posts: 14 since Jul 2022
Thanks: 9 given, 13 received

Hats off to any retailer out there that can scalp footprint charts. Beyond my capabilities My "orderflow is simple. I like to see the auctions, get a discount when I see its abosorbed, exhausted and most importantly in line with macro play (from fc v target wl) at the right time. Heres one example in the US session close that just happened. Note the full auction (risk) and tests of POC (entry).



Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Cools81 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #15 (permalink)
najw
prague and czech republic
 
 
Posts: 2 since Aug 2022
Thanks: 0 given, 1 received


Trader709 View Post
Hi All,
Does anyone know any better way than orderflow technical analysis in financial markets ?
Thank you kindly,
Traderr

you never have order flow data, if you want quality data cost start on 10k and more

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to najw for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #16 (permalink)
RickM
Brisbane
 
 
Posts: 11 since Dec 2018
Thanks: 3 given, 19 received

What are you talking about?

On MT4 its $9 a month
CME data its $35 a month.

Its good enough if the trader knows how to use it.


najw View Post
you never have order flow data, if you want quality data cost start on 10k and more


Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to RickM for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #17 (permalink)
 mwf2220 
Abu Dhabi United Arab Emirates
 
Experience: None
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Philip Capital
Trading: futures
 
mwf2220's Avatar
 
Posts: 112 since Sep 2020
Thanks: 1,064 given, 250 received


RickM View Post
Hi MWF2200

This is just how I trade the market every day, just my opinion.

On the order book, there is always a slight imbalance of Asks or Bids at any one time but normally it ranges between 5 - 8% in favour of one side. A small excess of Asks may tempt the market long or a small excess of Bids may tempt the market to go short but it all depends on the urgency of excuted market orders. For a tradable imbalance to occur, we need volume levels at three times average levels to increase ONE side of the order book by at least 30%. So for example on the ES, volume is 3 times average daily volume and the Asks on the order book are averaging 30% higher in order numbers over Bids - we have a strong and reliable tradable bullish trend that we can profit from. We are also hopeing to capture a cascading stop loss event as an extra bonus, a pay day in itself.

The relationship therefore is market orders need to dominate limit orders by three to one to create this reliable imbalance, the point where this strategy breaks down is if a market that is being heavily absorbed.

Simply we can't trade a market unless the Market orders are dominating Limit orders, or orderflow strategy's will mostly fail because delta data will be useless.

Thanks for the response - I appreciate it. How do you generally see or measure this imbalance? The DOM? The DOM and Delta? Something else?

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #18 (permalink)
najw
prague and czech republic
 
 
Posts: 2 since Aug 2022
Thanks: 0 given, 1 received


RickM View Post
What are you talking about?

On MT4 its $9 a month
CME data its $35 a month.

Its good enough if the trader knows how to use it.


its are worthless data ,not order flow data,same order book (each 2 broker have hide order in order book) when you have lucky you make good trade

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #19 (permalink)
RickM
Brisbane
 
 
Posts: 11 since Dec 2018
Thanks: 3 given, 19 received


najw View Post
its are worthless data ,not order flow data,same order book (each 2 broker have hide order in order book) when you have lucky you make good trade

Hi Najw

We don't need to care about any hidden order flow data, the data we have already shows us fantastic average imbalance readings already. Any missing data won't change this imbalance.
I am a firm believer that we should only be worried about data in front of our eyes, then trade what we believe its telling us.

Cheers

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to RickM for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #20 (permalink)
RickM
Brisbane
 
 
Posts: 11 since Dec 2018
Thanks: 3 given, 19 received



mwf2220 View Post
Thanks for the response - I appreciate it. How do you generally see or measure this imbalance? The DOM? The DOM and Delta? Something else?

Hi mwf2220

The imbalance starts in the DOM then will be present in the delta 10 seconds to 1 minute later. I believe we need to follow the imbalance on the DOM if recent data shows little signs of being absorbed. In other words, I want to see imbalance on the DOM producing imbalance on the delta levels by the end of each 1 minute candle.

Cheers

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to RickM for this post:


futures io Trading Community Traders Hideout > Is anything better than order flow?


Last Updated on September 27, 2022


Upcoming Webinars and Events
 

NinjaTrader Indicator Challenge!

Ongoing
     



Copyright © 2022 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, Ph: +507 833-9432 (Panama and Intl), +1 888-312-3001 (USA and Canada), info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts