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Basic Education for Beginner Trader

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  #11 (permalink)
yperez953
Miami, FL
 
 
Posts: 6 since May 2022
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deaddog View Post
If you've been trading sym for 2 years I have to assume you've tried a few different approaches.
What kind of problems have you been having?

Why ES?

I'm just not sure what else I need to learn or do. I have traded on different sims but I have been all over the place trying different things and instruments and just experimenting. As of very recently is when I have really been trying to just concentrate on the ES with a specific strategy that I just made up myself and I'm not even sure if its a correct setup but I have been making a consistent 2 points or so daily then I just shut it down. Although on some trades I get a scary drawdown. If I can do that every day consistently, then that's all I need for now until I can scale it up slowly. I'm just not sure how to go about risk management and stop loss size for this strategy.

I chose the ES mainly because of my schedule. I have a day job and I can only trade from about 8:00PM to 10:00PM Eastern U.S. time. I'm not sure if mainly something else may be a better fit for me to trade but I like the ES's liquidity, tick value, and volatility doesn't seem too crazy after hours.

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  #12 (permalink)
 DavidHP 
Legendary Market Wizard
New Orleans, La (Mardi Gras City)
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Ninjatrader / Optimus Futures / AmpFutures
Trading: ES / 6E / 6B / CL
 
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Posts: 1,403 since Aug 2009
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First thing to do is drop the SIM.
SIM is what most people do and it is 'adequate' but it is difficult to get the real experience of trading, risk and management in a sim environment. When you trade sim, there is no risk and if you mess up, there is no penalty but when you trade real time and live the risk and reward are real. (It makes a difference)

If you like ES try Micro ES (MES)and trade it realtime not sim.
It will alllow you to trade and not worry so much about the large swings.
It trades similar to ES but gives a lot less profit / loss but it makes a difference in the way you trade.

If you are wanting to 'learn' to trade and this is your choosen instrument having something less 'stressful' will allow you to develop confidence without risking your account yet it is not risk free like SIM.

Be patient and get some screen time with live trading.


yperez953 View Post
I'm just not sure what else I need to learn or do. I have traded on different sims but I have been all over the place trying different things and instruments and just experimenting. As of very recently is when I have really been trying to just concentrate on the ES with a specific strategy that I just made up myself and I'm not even sure if its a correct setup but I have been making a consistent 2 points or so daily then I just shut it down. Although on some trades I get a scary drawdown. If I can do that every day consistently, then that's all I need for now until I can scale it up slowly. I'm just not sure how to go about risk management and stop loss size for this strategy.

I chose the ES mainly because of my schedule. I have a day job and I can only trade from about 8:00PM to 10:00PM Eastern U.S. time. I'm not sure if mainly something else may be a better fit for me to trade but I like the ES's liquidity, tick value, and volatility doesn't seem too crazy after hours.


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  #13 (permalink)
yperez953
Miami, FL
 
 
Posts: 6 since May 2022
Thanks: 6 given, 5 received



DavidHP View Post
First thing to do is drop the SIM.
SIM is what most people do and it is 'adequate' but it is difficult to get the real experience of trading, risk and management in a sim environment. When you trade sim, there is no risk and if you mess up, there is no penalty but when you trade real time and live the risk and reward are real. (It makes a difference)

If you like ES try Micro ES (MES)and trade it realtime not sim.
It will alllow you to trade and not worry so much about the large swings.
It trades similar to ES but gives a lot less profit / loss but it makes a difference in the way you trade.

If you are wanting to 'learn' to trade and this is your choosen instrument having something less 'stressful' will allow you to develop confidence without risking your account yet it is not risk free like SIM.

Be patient and get some screen time with live trading.

Your message is right inline with what I have have been planning to do. The reason I have stayed on SIM is just to experiment and try different things without risking blowing up my account. But you make a very true point that in SIM you never really get the real feel of the market and your reactions. I have been thinking on starting on the MES as soon as I fine tune my strategy and figure out risk management for that style of trades.

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  #14 (permalink)
 DavidHP 
Legendary Market Wizard
New Orleans, La (Mardi Gras City)
 
Experience: Advanced
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Posts: 1,403 since Aug 2009
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Great!

No reason to wait. You will find that live trading has a way of 'fine tuning' things much quicker.


yperez953 View Post
Your message is right inline with what I have have been planning to do. The reason I have stayed on SIM is just to experiment and try different things without risking blowing up my account. But you make a very true point that in SIM you never really get the real feel of the market and your reactions. I have been thinking on starting on the MES as soon as I fine tune my strategy and figure out risk management for that style of trades.


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But Learning to Dance in the Rain ! ! !
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  #15 (permalink)
 Pariah Carey 
Legendary E-mini dictator for life
Memphis TN
 
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yperez953 View Post
I'm just not sure what else I need to learn or do. I have traded on different sims but I have been all over the place trying different things and instruments and just experimenting. As of very recently is when I have really been trying to just concentrate on the ES with a specific strategy that I just made up myself and I'm not even sure if its a correct setup but I have been making a consistent 2 points or so daily then I just shut it down. Although on some trades I get a scary drawdown. If I can do that every day consistently, then that's all I need for now until I can scale it up slowly. I'm just not sure how to go about risk management and stop loss size for this strategy.

I chose the ES mainly because of my schedule. I have a day job and I can only trade from about 8:00PM to 10:00PM Eastern U.S. time. I'm not sure if mainly something else may be a better fit for me to trade but I like the ES's liquidity, tick value, and volatility doesn't seem too crazy after hours.

You want volatility. The more the better. Iíd find a way to trade during the day. Those evening hours are the slowest and you might get some good moves now because yeah the volatility is pretty feverish, but it will not always be that way. It used to be typical for ES to not move more than a few points in the hours before the European markets opened.

Look into swing trading if day trading doesnít fit your schedule. I love it, holding overnight and over the weekend. You can make a lot of money in the markets when youíre just doing nothing. And others are correct, you just have to find your own way and come up with what works for you.

Become an elite member here. It will open up more content for you to absorb, and it gives you credibility. Just my opinion, but non elite members on this board donít have much useful to say.

I hope youíre thirsty because what youíre basically asking for is to drink from the firehouse lol.

Money make ya handsome
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  #16 (permalink)
thoughtful
Klamath Falls OR
 
 
Posts: 57 since Apr 2020
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chipwitch View Post
You make an awful lot of claims without evidence. What are you selling?

I'm not selling anything. SIGH.

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  #17 (permalink)
 JBWTrader 
Murrays Bay
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NT*,Tradestation
Trading: ES, NQ
 
Posts: 61 since Aug 2017
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OP, do you have coding skills ? Stats skills ?
I hope so...why ? to well it makes it easier to test a theory. You can backtest and Sim until "proven". You will save a lot of money that way.
this is a very tough game with many many possibilities.
Statistical approaches seem to have the best chance of survival.
This sort of thing will either grab you or it wont
the charts showing bars are a bit like voodoo in my opinion...markets are mostly random and what i am writing here just doesnt cut it in terms of the reality. Quantum random distribution.
Look that up. There is a reason the "nerds" are winning this game

thats not to discourage you but if you think reading, trading live, having an idea and running with it live is going to cut it, you are badly badly mistaken and best not to delve into this game without rigorous research. Dont mistake luck with finding something significant either...a common mistake...

The above might sound negative but you will begin to understand when you start burning thru money and not having any answers....
FInd true demonstratable edge, automate (if possible but this will be a very complex exercise in itself)

but who knows you might have a gift that 99.99% dont have when trading live

best of luck

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  #18 (permalink)
Symple
Zuerich / Switzerland
 
 
Posts: 554 since Sep 2021
Thanks: 647 given, 1,299 received


Pariah Carey View Post
Just my opinion, but non elite members on this board donít have much useful to say.

@Pariah Carey

This is an absolutely arrogant and false statement. It gives a deep impression about your understanding and tolerance towards other members of this forum. Basically, you should shame yourself into the ground with such a statement.

Just as an info for all not "Elite Members": There were already discussions here in the forum about what a membership in this area brings.

Two answers I have read at that time:

1. It helps to support the forum directly financially. (You can also do this indirectly, but that's another topic).

2. What is posted in the "Elite Member" section is simply put the icing on the cake.

Sorry @yperez953 for disturbing this thread, but what the other guy is saying is not on at all.

Symple

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  #19 (permalink)
 bobwest 
Site Moderator
Sarasota FL
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart
Trading: ES, YM
 
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Symple View Post
@Pariah Carey

This is an absolutely arrogant and false statement. It gives a deep impression about your understanding and tolerance towards other members of this forum. Basically, you should shame yourself into the ground with such a statement.

Just as an info for all not "Elite Members": There were already discussions here in the forum about what a membership in this area brings.

Two answers I have read at that time:

1. It helps to support the forum directly financially. (You can also do this indirectly, but that's another topic).

2. What is posted in the "Elite Member" section is simply put the icing on the cake.

Sorry @yperez953 for disturbing this thread, but what the other guy is saying is not on at all.

Symple

@Symple, I think you took offense to part of what @Pariah Carey said, but that you missed, and don't actually know, this part:

Pariah Carey View Post
Become an elite member here. It will open up more content for you to absorb

Whether someone wants to become an Elite member is up to them, of course.

You have posted often, and are certainly welcome to continue as you have.

But there are a lot of posts behind the Elite wall that are not available to non-Elite members. Many of the longer-term trade journals and many of the longer-lasting discussion threads are started there and stay there. My opinion, which is not unbiased, but which is based on long-term experience with the forum (and I was a member long before I was a moderator), is that the more interesting discussions usually go on there. On average, 70 - 80% of the posts in the forum are by Elite members: some are in the public sections, and some are not.

But a person has to decide to take the chance that there is something good there, and it is a chance. Maybe nothing is really going on there... and it does cost a hundred dollars (one time), after all. The fee has actually been a useful screening tool, because it requires a willingness to make a commitment, without seeing what is there first. And after all, maybe you won't get anything for your money. Some take the rest of the forum as a sample and a preview, some don't. Part of the function of the fee is to help select members who truly have an interest, frankly.

There are a few non-Elite members who have gone on for years, some making useful contributions over that time, and there is nothing wrong with this. Are they missing something? Well, they don't know, do they?

Most who don't take that plunge simply drift away after a time, because they find the forum is not for them.

We shouldn't let this discussion of the Elite/non-Elite question take up too much of this thread (and I have been guilty of adding to it, of course), but since it has come up, I thought I would add in my perspective. So, for what it's worth, yes, there is more content available there, and it often is the most valuable content, too. My opinion -- not an unbiased one, but not an uninformed one, either.

Everyone should do what they want on the subject, of course, and I expect they will.

Bob.

When one door closes, another opens.
-- Cervantes, Don Quixote
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  #20 (permalink)
Symple
Zuerich / Switzerland
 
 
Posts: 554 since Sep 2021
Thanks: 647 given, 1,299 received


@bobwest

So far I agree with your posting. However, I must say that the way @Pariah Carey has expressed itself there is not necessarily this what one has so as acceptance and tolerance against other members of this forum. This in specific if one does not even know the background of many of such members.

Since I do not want to pick here now but also further on the subject, also ready to apologize if necessary and if I was a bit abusive, I put but rather on a quiet weekend with a lot of rest also for @Pariah Carey

Hope this has calmed the discussion and also me it happens from time to time that I do not always find the exact tone one in certain situations so halt one needs.

Now I hope that the thread continues as before.

Further a nice weekend for all.

Symple

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