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Most Funding Firms are a Scam


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Most Funding Firms are a Scam

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  #41 (permalink)
TraderCornel
Redmond, WA
 
 
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chipwitch View Post
Well, if you're seeking monetary remediation, I should think presenting your case to those entities might be more fruitful than posting in a forum about it.

It's not about monetary remediation but about truth and helping those that are being scammed. That is why I choose to post it here. Otherwise, I would have been in court.

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  #42 (permalink)
 chipwitch 
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TraderCornel View Post
It's not about monetary remediation but about truth and helping those that are being scammed. That is why I choose to post it here. Otherwise, I would have been in court.

So, it's an audience you're looking for? A soapbox to stand on? I'm sorry I'm just not understanding the point of all this. I haven't been around fio very long but it seems to me that only a small minority of members here use funding firms. Just spit balling here... I'd go so far as to say that the general advice given here is to avoid them.

Frankly I find words like "scam" and "always" and "everywhere" and "all of them" to be red flags. They're exaggerations. You're "always" using those words (and others like them) "everywhere". See what I mean?

I suspect you're going to be disappointed if you're expecting to rally people here to your cause. Most of us are pretty rational. I can't speak for others, but I believe there are two sides to every story... I've only heard yours so tend to take it with a grain of salt, especially since "everyone" I know who has used a funding firm had very different experiences from yours.

I wish you luck. If you do pursue remediation, I hope you'll come back and tell us how that went. It would be one way for us to see the other side of the story in a transcript.

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  #43 (permalink)
 COTtrader 
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TraderCornel View Post
Most Funding Firms are a Scam. I traded supposedly live for three of them after I made it through evaluation. I trade it Stocks and Forex. They paid me once 5k. Then when I was due to get 30k, they refused to pay and restricted my trading. This is most likely because they did not let me trade a live account. They even blocked me from being able to close a position and would not answer emails for days.

So recently I decided to try a futures evaluation account. What I discovered was the same scam, except done in a different way. I had rouge orders show up in my account at times when I tried to close positions because the company does not have trade desk you can call. No matter how many times I tried, a new order would show up. I had no way of closing it for about 30 seconds. Other traders in the same company had the same problem lasting minutes to hours.

So here are some suggestions on how to identify funding scams.

  1. They promise high payout. (Real Firms at the very best give you 50%)
  1. Quick Evaluation. (Real firms want a track record of at least 6 months to a year)
  1. No trade desk to call. (Real firms give you a number to call if orders need to be canceled)
  1. No live consumer support; phone or chat. (Real firms have a contact person you can talk too)
  1. Claim they can't access your trading account to give you any information or cancel orders. (Real Firm have back-office access)
  1. Rogue order. (Orders that show up in your account that were not placed by you)
  1. Un-cancelable orders. (When you try to close orders a new one is placed, or you can not cancel them)
  1. Blocked from trading the account without explanation.
  1. Paid Simulation Trading. (They place you on simulation trading even after you pass evaluation, but claim they'll pay you anyway.)
  1. They Blame everything on technology.(Constant software or network problems. They never want to fix anything for real)
  1. Blaming every problem on your computer and/or your internet connection.
  1. Holding you gains hostage. (they always have a reason to not pay you)
  1. No payment or one payment.(they may pay you once, but no more after that, claiming you are not a good trader, and/or they just can't take the risk, etc...)
  1. Blaming you for everything.
  1. They never do anything wrong.
  1. When caught doing these, they claim that they are testing your ability to react to emergencies.

I have traded for 24 years, and this is what I have learned in dealing with firms.

Video below, is not mine. It shows a trader that happened to record a similar experience to mine; i.e. rouge orders that he could not close. It lasted 45 minutes. (in the second video he explains what happened)

Skip to 11:07 and it goes on to the end


Update 5.23.2022
Hear the trader Himself explain what happened: Skip to minute 13:44 to 17:50



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  #44 (permalink)
 forgiven 
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I think everyone should experience one of the try outs . The risk management experience is well worth the 150.00 or so. Just keep in mind their business model is selling trader stuff to mostly day traders that have seven out multicable funded trading accounts . It is not looking for prop traders . Should they come across someone that can trade lights out , there going to rap a 2000.00 or more educational package around it .. for sale . There going to be welcomed to the educational side of the firm .

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  #45 (permalink)
Dumm Treydor
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I appreciate your posts and shared experiences, and everybody else's inputs.

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  #46 (permalink)
TimExcellent
New Zealand
 
 
Posts: 2 since Apr 2022
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I signed up here because I have the intention of passing one of these challenges.

It seems to be an issue at the moment, there are others on Twitter complaining as well about these firms - the one I heard the trader was upset with Top Step about not paying him out $8k (honestly I have no idea if he was sim or what) for breaching the round turn trades he had done >270. Its clear in TS's rules there are limits you only have to read them, they dont want highly volatile traders, I'm assuming they have designed the rules in a way where if they have investors they are seeking a specific performance or volatility perhaps.

I had no idea there was some what of a history with Apex Trading (I now am concerned I guess, but I think once I know I can pass one of these I'll move to TS perhaps or Merrit Black from SMB Capital has a futures Prop firm now as well), they ran a promo for cheap access to their "$50k" account, which if you actually look at it you have $1500 in risk, which simply means you would need to be deadly accurate - hopefully I am, I seem to be ok at this but not there yet. Its similar with TS (expensive) you have $3000 in risk on the "$50k" account size. They all have pretty clear rules if you take the time to read and not just treat it as a shot at free money.

Anyway not there yet as learning a system from Market Stalkers (Deana Angelo) that is specifically designed to help you build the skills to pass - but you actually have to develop those skills first, I see it as something that is likely to take more than 6 months.

The only question I really have in my mind is who is funding the funded trader prop firms - thats the only thing that isnt clear to me, if they have serious investors or whatever behind them then I think that would satisfy me long term. At present its just about the cost (which is below the monthly exchange fee somehow of me paying the exchange fees), if they do actually pay out on top of that deal then its a pretty good deal.

All the rules are certainly helpful for me I have to say, theres something about having to follow a set of someone elses rules.

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  #47 (permalink)
 bobwest 
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bulldogtrader88 View Post
I work for Topstep. I saw that video on Youtube....


bulldogtrader88 View Post
I work for Topstep so I can't get funded with them due to conflict of interest. However, I can say....

Hi @bulldogtrader88,

I have deleted these two posts for vendor self-promotion, as well as another post in a different thread.

When you speak as an employee of a company, and present a pro-company message, then your post falls under vendor self-promotion, which is not allowed on the forum.

I don't think that you did anything deliberately against the rules, and I am sure that you mean well, and just meant to convey your own experience and knowledge of the situations. However, you are speaking for the company, not as an individual trader relating your experience with a company you have no connection with.

Please take a look at the post I made in the other thread regarding your post there, where it is explained in more depth:



Bob.

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  #48 (permalink)
TimExcellent
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bobwest View Post
Hi @bulldogtrader88,

I have deleted these two posts for vendor self-promotion, as well as another post in a different thread.

When you speak as an employee of a company, and present a pro-company message, then your post falls under vendor self-promotion, which is not allowed on the forum.

I don't think that you did anything deliberately against the rules, and I am sure that you mean well, and just meant to convey your own experience and knowledge of the situations. However, you are speaking for the company, not as an individual trader relating your experience with a company you have no connection with.

Please take a look at the post I made in the other thread regarding your post there, where it is explained in more depth:

Bob.

I'll just comment I agree with bulldogtrader88, that trader in the twitter complaint thread against TS was quite silly, he clearly broke the rules, there is a trend for some reason of people claiming and complaining these funding companies are screwing them over in some way or another.

Read the rules the funding companies make very clear and you'll see they just want people with a process and see you develop a skill, if you win, they win, making probably what amounts to $20-40/month (probably less when you consider how many staff thy likely have) on a traders subscription and a couple reset fee's probably isnt much of a sustainable business - people pass them and do well when they do. There would be a decent incentive to make sure the rules are able to be met and that you have opportunity to succeed within those rules.

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  #49 (permalink)
 bobwest 
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TimExcellent View Post
I'll just comment I agree with bulldogtrader88, that trader in the twitter complaint thread against TS was quite silly, he clearly broke the rules, there is a trend for some reason of people claiming and complaining these funding companies are screwing them over in some way or another.

Read the rules the funding companies make very clear and you'll see they just want people with a process and see you develop a skill, if you win, they win, making probably what amounts to $20-40/month (probably less when you consider how many staff thy likely have) on a traders subscription and a couple reset fee's probably isnt much of a sustainable business - people pass them and do well when they do. There would be a decent incentive to make sure the rules are able to be met and that you have opportunity to succeed within those rules.

@bulldogtrader88's post was deleted because he was attempting to speak for the company, and it would be out of bounds in this context for him to do so. He probably did not realize this, which he has acknowledged in the other thread I mentioned.

Whatever non-affiliated traders may think about the rules of any funding company is legitimate material for discussion, of course, if it is based on their actual experience and belief. Not everyone will necessarily agree, which can make for a better discussion in the end.

Bob.

When one door closes, another opens.
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  #50 (permalink)
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TimExcellent View Post
I signed up here because I have the intention of passing one of these challenges.

It seems to be an issue at the moment, there are others on Twitter complaining as well about these firms - the one I heard the trader was upset with Top Step about not paying him out $8k (honestly I have no idea if he was sim or what) for breaching the round turn trades he had done >270. Its clear in TS's rules there are limits you only have to read them, they dont want highly volatile traders, I'm assuming they have designed the rules in a way where if they have investors they are seeking a specific performance or volatility perhaps.

I had no idea there was some what of a history with Apex Trading (I now am concerned I guess, but I think once I know I can pass one of these I'll move to TS perhaps or Merrit Black from SMB Capital has a futures Prop firm now as well), they ran a promo for cheap access to their "$50k" account, which if you actually look at it you have $1500 in risk, which simply means you would need to be deadly accurate - hopefully I am, I seem to be ok at this but not there yet. Its similar with TS (expensive) you have $3000 in risk on the "$50k" account size. They all have pretty clear rules if you take the time to read and not just treat it as a shot at free money.

Anyway not there yet as learning a system from Market Stalkers (Deana Angelo) that is specifically designed to help you build the skills to pass - but you actually have to develop those skills first, I see it as something that is likely to take more than 6 months.

The only question I really have in my mind is who is funding the funded trader prop firms - thats the only thing that isnt clear to me, if they have serious investors or whatever behind them then I think that would satisfy me long term. At present its just about the cost (which is below the monthly exchange fee somehow of me paying the exchange fees), if they do actually pay out on top of that deal then its a pretty good deal.

All the rules are certainly helpful for me I have to say, theres something about having to follow a set of someone elses rules.

To add some context to the trader who claimed that we "stole $8,200" from his account. The trader had been warned 6 times within a 4 month period about the 200 contract limit. 2 of the 6 times we deleted a trading session and the other 4 he was warned. All of this was while he was on SIM. Additionally, since this is a target and not a rule it doesn't make the account ineligible for funding, the day just gets deleted.

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