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Most Funding Firms are a Scam


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Most Funding Firms are a Scam

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  #21 (permalink)
 bobwest 
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phantomtrader View Post
Well since you won't post the names, I will.

The funding company is Apex (Darryl Martin)

The software is TruTrade AutoRipper - https://trutrade.io/software/

You bought/leased this software for about $10-12,000.

The cancellations are generated by the SOFTWARE, not Apex or anyone else. It's running on Ninja with Rithmic datafeed.
...

The BOT is triggering those cancellations. There's obviously a bunch of coding errors in the software. But whatever it is, the company lacks transparency and in this industry, that's the first sign for STAY AWAY.

Hi @phantomtrader,

A couple of things:

- Can you let us know where you got the connection to the trutrade software? Is it from the video (which, probably like many people, I have not sat through)?. The OP hasn't mentioned it, so we don't know.

- If in fact the OP's issues with the "rogue trades" is from the software, that is important, and it also suggests he has less of a complaint with the funding company, so it matters to what he is saying. @TraderCornel, can you respond to this? Were you using this trading software? Do you think that the trading software is at fault, or is the funding company?

- Although the long review post on trutrade is interesting, there is already a review thread on FIO for this company. Any material on the software, pro or con, should go there:


It seems to me that this thread has gotten a little off-topic. Please help us understand the turn it is taking.

Bob.

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  #22 (permalink)
 phantomtrader 
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bobwest View Post
Hi @phantomtrader,

A couple of things:

- Can you let us know where you got the connection to the trutrade software? Is it from the video (which, probably like many people, I have not sat through)?. The OP hasn't mentioned it, so we don't know.

- If in fact the OP's issues with the "rogue trades" is from the software, that is important, and it also suggests he has less of a complaint with the funding company, so it matters to what he is saying. @TraderCornel, can you respond to this? Were you using this trading software? Do you think that the trading software is at fault, or is the funding company?

- Although the long review post on trutrade is interesting, there is already a review thread on FIO for this company. Any material on the software, pro or con, should go there:


It seems to me that this thread has gotten a little off-topic. Please help us understand the turn it is taking.

Bob.


Hi Bob: I'm attaching a screenshot of the Live Trading with Matthew YouTube video uploaded yesterday by the OP. In the upper left hand corner you'll see "TruTrade Auto Ripper". OP says that this trader had the same problem with "rogue" trades.
Therefore, I assume it's the same bot executing the trades in the OP's account.
The cancellations are driven by the software, not a live person attempting to compromise the account. If that were the case, Rithmic would report the trade as a "CLOSE", not a cancellation. The term "cancellation" is generated by the software.
Also attached is a screenshot of sim trades I took with Rithmic datafeed where I manually closed the trades. Note that the exit point says "CLOSE", not cancellation.

It's the software, not someone manipulating the OP's account. Hope this answers your question.

Forgot to mention the caption under the video:
"Live Trading with Matthew + 509.00 NASDAQ Auto Ripper Pro full auto"

autoRipper


NQ 06-22 (ninZaRenko 12_2) 2022_05_23 (9_52_52 AM)

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  #23 (permalink)
TraderCornel
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bobwest View Post
Hi @phantomtrader,

A couple of things:

- Can you let us know where you got the connection to the trutrade software? Is it from the video (which, probably like many people, I have not sat through)?. The OP hasn't mentioned it, so we don't know.

- If in fact the OP's issues with the "rogue trades" is from the software, that is important, and it also suggests he has less of a complaint with the funding company, so it matters to what he is saying. @TraderCornel, can you respond to this? Were you using this trading software? Do you think that the trading software is at fault, or is the funding company?

- Although the long review post on trutrade is interesting, there is already a review thread on FIO for this company. Any material on the software, pro or con, should go there:


It seems to me that this thread has gotten a little off-topic. Please help us understand the turn it is taking.

Bob.

I was not using TruTrade and I have no experience with them.

The image below shows you the company and that it was their Oder Management System that rejected the cancellation saying it was complete, except it was still live and it was not placed by the user. All you could do is place a new order, but you always had a live Oder in the account without being able to cancel it sometimes for a very long time, just like the trader in the video.


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  #24 (permalink)
 phantomtrader 
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TraderCornel View Post
I was not using TruTrade and I have no experience with them.

The image below shows you the company and that it was their Oder Management System that rejected the cancellation saying it was complete, except it was still live and it was not placed by the user. All you could do is place a new order, but you always had a live Oder in the account without being able to cancel it sometimes for a very long time, just like the trader in the video.


Really. When why did you say this:
"Video below, is not mine. It shows a trader that happened to record a similar experience to mine; i.e. rouge orders that he could not close. It lasted 45 minutes.

starts at 11:07 to the end"

So what you posted isn't true? I think we need a clarification.

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  #25 (permalink)
TraderCornel
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phantomtrader View Post
Really. When why did you say this:
"Video below, is not mine. It shows a trader that happened to record a similar experience to mine; i.e. rouge orders that he could not close. It lasted 45 minutes.

starts at 11:07 to the end"

So what you posted isn't true? I think we need a clarification.

@phantomtrader, seems you are a pretty good researcher. So, I'm not questioning your assessment of TruTrade. But the truth is I have no experience with them.

Also, I can understand the confusion, but please note that I give an explanation about the similarities in the third sentence of the quote you mentioned.

i.e. rouge orders that he could not close

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  #26 (permalink)
TraderCornel
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WoodyFox View Post
The company is apex trader funding...owned by Darrel Martin who was banned here on futures.io many years ago. Some of his troops have been banned also. He also owns apex trading institute, was also affiliated with another trading prop firm (leeloo trading) before he had A falling out with the lady owner.

When are you people going to learn that these companies are there for one thing. Figure it out.

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

Bingo. Well done.

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  #27 (permalink)
 phantomtrader 
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TraderCornel View Post
@phantomtrader, seems you are a pretty good researcher. So, I'm not questioning your assessment of TruTrade. But the truth is I have no experience with them.

Also, I can understand the confusion, but please note that I give an explanation about the similarities in the third sentence of the quote you mentioned.

i.e. rouge orders that he could not close

So then your contention is that Apex's order management system would not let you close the trade. But I assume you're using NinjaTrader and Rithmic which is the platform they refer to at their website.

According to their rules, when you have a technical issue, you should exit your trade directly on R Trader, which is correct. Did you do that? In effect, you're saying that Rithmic failed to close your trade.
You can open Rithmic and get the log of all your trades. I assume you did this. Did it show an attempted exit that wasn't filled? Did it show an outside party executing trades on your account?
It's pretty easy to figure out.

Scroll to 5:00 in the video: https://support.apextraderfunding.com/hc/en-us/articles/4406419325723-Do-I-contact-you-or-NinjaTrader-if-I-need-to-flatten-because-of-technical-issues- The person describes what
you're supposed to do in the event of a technical issue. But your contention is that Apex's order management system is to blame and not Rithmic. How do you know that?

I'm not defending either one. However, I don't think you understand what really happened with those trades. Did you talk to Apex? What did they say about it?

Something is not right about this whole scenario.

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  #28 (permalink)
TraderCornel
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phantomtrader View Post
So then your contention is that Apex's order management system would not let you close the trade. But I assume you're using NinjaTrader and Rithmic which is the platform they refer to at their website.

According to their rules, when you have a technical issue, you should exit your trade directly on R Trader, which is correct. Did you do that? In effect, you're saying that Rithmic failed to close your trade.
You can open Rithmic and get the log of all your trades. I assume you did this. Did it show an attempted exit that wasn't filled? Did it show an outside party executing trades on your account?
It's pretty easy to figure out.

Scroll to 5:00 in the video: https://support.apextraderfunding.com/hc/en-us/articles/4406419325723-Do-I-contact-you-or-NinjaTrader-if-I-need-to-flatten-because-of-technical-issues- The person describes what
you're supposed to do in the event of a technical issue. But your contention is that Apex's order management system is to blame and not Rithmic. How do you know that?

I'm not defending either one. However, I don't think you understand what really happened with those trades. Did you talk to Apex? What did they say about it?

Something is not right about this whole scenario.

Yea, my point exactly, they give you the run around; only if you did this and only if you did that. But FYI, I did all that and more and could not close it only after a while. I contacted NinjaTrader and their Log showed the rouge order without a tracible route and my attempts to close the order without sucess. When I contacted Rithmic they blamed NinjaTrader saying it was possibly a 3rd party plugin, but I was not using a plugin at the time. Also, that does not explain why the order showed up in the first place and why I could not close it from their software. This is present in all the firms that are using Rithmic. This is why I concluded most Firms.

Why would I contact APEX. Its like saying, have you asked the wolf that eat your sheep why he did it. Besides, They already say in their videos that they can not give you any information about your orders. Also, they have no email or phone you can call only some form on their website, which they can always ignore, which by the way proves my point about these firms. However, I did let them know when I canceled my subscription.

But here, let's let the trader in the video explain what happened to him to see it's not just me.

Skip to minute 13:44 to 17:50


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  #29 (permalink)
 phantomtrader 
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TraderCornel View Post
Yea, my point exactly, they give you the run around; only if you did this and only if you did that. But FYI, I did all that and more and could not close it only after a while. I contacted NinjaTrader and their Log showed the rouge order without a tracible route and my attempts to close the order without sucess. When I contacted Rithmic they blamed NinjaTrader saying it was possibly a 3rd party plugin, but I was not using a plugin at the time. Also, that does not explain why the order showed up in the first place and why I could not close it from their software. This is present in all the firms that are using Rithmic. This is why I concluded most Firms.

Why would I contact APEX. Its like saying, have you asked the wolf that eat your sheep why he did it. Besides, They already say in their videos that they can not give you any information about your orders. Also, they have no email or phone you can call only some form on their website, which they can always ignore, which by the way proves my point about these firms. However, I did let them know when I canceled my subscription.

But here, let's let the trader in the video explain what happened to him to see it's not just me.

Skip to minute 13:44 to 17:50


Okay, fair enough. Looks like you got screwed over by Apex. At the very least, they should be curious as to how this could happen to one of their traders. In the video, they use the excuse that "it happens all the time". However,
I've been trading for a lot of years and actually never had this happen to me, although Ninja and Rithmic can both do some nasty things. I've had computer malfunctions, platform malfunctions, but never was stuck in a trade that
I couldn't get out of. On a live account, of course, you can call the desk and have them exit the trade.

My primary point was to find out if the platforms themselves have some inherent flaw that we should be aware of. You wouldn't expect Apex to be responsible for that, but as I said, they should investigate incidents like these for
the benefit of their traders. Again, they don't run that business for the benefit of traders - we all know that!

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  #30 (permalink)
canoekoh
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on a separate note, i'm sure many of you have noticed that there has recently been a boom in these futures evaluation companies.

in just a short timespan, we've had many new entrants like Elitetraderfunding, Apex, Bulenox, etc.

and every. single. one. of these companies has a few common features:

1. employ all kinds of restrictions in being able to withdraw your profits in a timely manner (usually a mix of withdrawal threshold buffer + must trade a certain # of profitable days to even be able to withdraw)

2. you would think due to so much competition now, there would be more companies offering a EOD trailing drawdown but no, all of these new companies only offer trailing DD based on unrealized real-time PnL.


it doesn't take a genius to realize these companies are actively setting up the rules to fail you.

the reason for 1) is b/c they know due to leverage (futures notional amounts are much bigger than the max DD they provide you) + unrealized trailing DD, it's in their interest to force funded traders to keep spinning the hamster wheel b/c over time, the odds are stacked against the trader.

they are the casino and they know it. so as long as they can force you to play for as long as possible so that the casino's edge plays out, they will statistically always win out in the end.

and 2) should tell you everything you need to know about these companies. it shows that despite outcry from funded traders for such a long time and the fact that the abundance of these companies technically *should have resulted in more competition and thus better evaluation rules, the trailing DD based on unrealized PnL is the one thing these companies ABSOLUTELY CANNOT COMPROMISE ON.

once you come to the realization that the trailing DD based on unrealized PnL is literally the LIFEBLOOD of the profit structure of these companies, do you still want to waste your time and money on a game that's rigged against you?

on youtube, there's a recent interview done with the founders of Elitetraderfunding and the interviewer asks the founders about how they would address concerns from people about Etf not paying out profits. the founder is then caught *rolling his eyes, visibly annoyed that people dare question their profit model.

you guys still wanna be the suckers handing your hard-earned money to these bottom-of-the-barrel leeches of society? please have some self-respect for the time and sweat you poured into earning that W2 income and don't go off contributing it to these scammers.

prop firms have a role but there's really only 1 company that has 1) no restrictions on withdrawals whatsoever 2) offers EOD trailing DD and that is Earn2Trade (uprofit also has EOD trailing DD but they employ a withdrawal buffer; topstep has EOD trailing DD too but they are absolutely terrible for other reasons i won't go into here...)

please note that even E2T uses a trailing DD based on unrealized PnL on their live accounts so after passing their evaluation, make sure to always select their livesim option which offers EOD DD.

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