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Earn2Trade LiveSim vs Live $1,000 Discrepancy


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Earn2Trade LiveSim vs Live $1,000 Discrepancy

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  #1 (permalink)
TraderMichaelB
Tulsa + Oklahoma/United States
 
 
Posts: 32 since Aug 2018
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So after earning the $5k in the LiveSim, I've just been told Earn2Trade will take $1k (their 20% of my $5k) out of my account while switching the account to Live. To be clear, I'm not making a withdrawal, and they are taking it anyway. What is that? Nowhere have I read that, and when I aske dthem about pros and cons of LiveSim vs live, and asked if there were any negatives to the LiveSim, the answer was "No". Seems like they could have said "Well, we'll take $1k of your profits off of your earnings during the transfer whether you withdrawal or not.".

Is this what you guys have experienced? Another reason to launch my own account I suppose. Earn2Trade seems reputable, but that move is pretty trashy IMO.

Love to hear any thoughts / experiences on this.

Thanks!

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  #2 (permalink)
TraderMichaelB
Tulsa + Oklahoma/United States
 
 
Posts: 32 since Aug 2018
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"Apr 11, 2022, 14:15 CDT

I'd still very much like to know how/why you take $1k of my $5k without me taking a withdrawal. This isn't what I've read elsewhere.

Hello Michael,

The 80/20 profit split applies to both LiveSim and Live - Regardless of whether you withdraw it or you move the profits to Live, 20% is deducted.
Michael B"


Seems ludicrous.

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 matthew28 
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TraderMichaelB View Post
Seems ludicrous.

LOL (not laughing at you). That's a new one I haven't heard before.

Agree with you, and other firm's policies, a profit split is a share being taken from a profit withdrawal. When you withdraw some actual profit they take their deduction at that point.

You making $5k on a sim account and them then taking a 20% deduction of that imaginary money is a joke. They haven't gained any money, or taken a profit split to correctly reduce the amount they pay out, but have simply made an imaginary withdrawal of imaginary money to make an imaginary profit. Ridiculous.
I would be annoyed too. All they have done is unexpectedly reduce your profit cushion and maximum draw down so you have less risk capital available than you thought you would have.
Not a good start to a trading relationship with them when instead of being enthusiastic and ready to go after passing through the funding test, you are left feeling conned, probably concerned about what "new rule" they will come up with next, and thinking about leaving.

In reality there's nothing you can do though so put it out of your mind, don't trade angry, think of what you did/how you traded to pass the program, then carry on.
Well done on getting through, and good luck

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 Daytrader999 
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TraderMichaelB View Post
So after earning the $5k in the LiveSim, I've just been told Earn2Trade will take $1k (their 20% of my $5k) out of my account while switching the account to Live. To be clear, I'm not making a withdrawal, and they are taking it anyway. What is that? Nowhere have I read that, and when I aske dthem about pros and cons of LiveSim vs live, and asked if there were any negatives to the LiveSim, the answer was "No". Seems like they could have said "Well, we'll take $1k of your profits off of your earnings during the transfer whether you withdrawal or not.".

Well, that's quite outrageous imo, and I feel sorry for your disappointing experience.

According to their paperwork, there's apart from the monthly data fee no difference between these two account types. But perhaps they try to make up for the missed data fees they didn't earn in the Live Sim account, although we're only talking about Sim $$ here....

So perhaps Orianna @Earn2Trade can give some explanation.

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TraderMichaelB
Tulsa + Oklahoma/United States
 
 
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matthew28 View Post
LOL (not laughing at you). That's a new one I haven't heard before.

Agree with you, and other firm's policies, a profit split is a share being taken from a profit withdrawal. When you withdraw some actual profit they take their deduction at that point.

You making $5k on a sim account and them then taking a 20% deduction of that imaginary money is a joke. They haven't gained any money, or taken a profit split to correctly reduce the amount they pay out, but have simply made an imaginary withdrawal of imaginary money to make an imaginary profit. Ridiculous.
I would be annoyed too. All they have done is unexpectedly reduce your profit cushion and maximum draw down so you have less risk capital available than you thought you would have.
Not a good start to a trading relationship with them when instead of being enthusiastic and ready to go after passing through the funding test, you are left feeling conned, probably concerned about what "new rule" they will come up with next, and thinking about leaving.

In reality there's nothing you can do though so put it out of your mind, don't trade angry, think of what you did/how you traded to pass the program, then carry on.
Well done on getting through, and good luck

Thank you for agreeing. I get that it wasn't real gains, nevertheless I expected them to make good on all earnings until I took a withdrawal. Had I known this little tidbit, I'd have traded live from the get-go. Anyway, yeah not a lot I can do about it. I'll just keep doing what I'm doing and take my initial withdrawal to pay myself back for some of the $$ I've spent on these, and the next to open my own NinjaTrader account to trade in tandem. Thanks!

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TraderMichaelB
Tulsa + Oklahoma/United States
 
 
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Daytrader999 View Post
Well, that's quite outrageous imo, and I feel sorry for your disappointing experience.

According to their paperwork, there's apart from the monthly data fee no difference between these two account types. But perhaps they try to make up for the missed data fees they didn't earn in the Live Sim account, although we're only talking about Sim $$ here....

So perhaps Orianna @Earn2Trade can give some explanation.

Data fee, perhaps you're right. Either way I'd prefer people who pass it to KNOW that's going to happen before they choose LiveSim, so here's hoping the word gets out there about this slightly sleazy "gotcha". Cheers!

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Hello,

Thank you for your questions.

First, the LiveSim profit split and the maximum being $4000 withdrawable is discussed on the website where you make your Gauntlet Mini? purchase, under the title "What happens after you get funded?"

It is further explained in the offer that all traders sign - this is a document that is sent to every trader and returned with their signature.

Finally, it is specifically explained in the LiveSim agreement - another document that traders are sent, they are signed and returned to Helios.

We understand that certain information may go under the radar periodically and to combat that, we always need to be extremely transparent. If you have any suggestions on where else to display the information, so it doesn't take anyone by surprise, we'd love to try to accommodate it. However, we reject this as being a "gotcha" moment, seeing how every trader is required to sign off on the exact rule twice, and it is displayed on the website upon purchase.

We would like to add that our website clearly states "LiveSim is only available until you make your first $5,000 (minus the 20% profit split)". Maybe we are misunderstanding something about the complaint here, but if you have a suggestion on how to explain the proceedings better or differently, please suggest it, and we will consider updating the explanation.

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  #8 (permalink)
TraderMichaelB
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In the choice email, something like "Note that if you choose the LiveSim, once the $5000 is acquired, $4000 will be "transferred" to the live account whether a withdrawal is made or not." <--- That would make live a clear choice for me. Had that been in the "choose" email, it would have been a no-brainer. "So though I've passed and I earned, I don't get what I earned. If I wait to acquire $1000 before my first withdrawal, you've essentially taken 30%, not 20. Anyhoo. Another reason to switch to personal account.

It's your funds so I get that you make the rules. But for me, "we take 20% when you withdrawal" is clearly not accurate on a new account IF choosing LiveSim. I'd suggest adding more explanation of this to the choice email to avoid people getting annoyed.

Though annoyed, I certainly still appreciate the opportunity that's provided.

Thanks,
Michael

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 ziggy123 
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There are MUCH BETTER options out there than Ear2Trade (Gauntlet) - I used their service and had TWO MAIN issues :

1. Trailing drawdown : If you say make $1500 and the daily loss limit is $1500 - and you went a bit above $1500 - then your reached you max limit - even though you MADE $1500 which should give you a cusion of $3000!!! Hypothetically - this was NEVER explained in plain English/well 2-3 years ago.

2. When they say you can trade say 6 contracts and CHARGE you an ARM and a LEG for it - guess what - you cannot trade 6 contracts (I think they call it some sliding scale or something like that ) - so you start with 2 - and have to generate income and pass a certain threshold before you can add another contract - VERY MISLEADING!!!!

*** Ans all of the ABOVE - is that they were or even are one of the MOST expensive!

Take Leeloo trading for example - they run specials sometimes (like this week for example) of 80% DISCOUNT - free resets etc - so instead of paying Earn2Trade same account $150 you would be paying $30+ dollars.

They are very RIGID/ inflexible in their responses - they could have comp'd you and said because it's nit really self explanatory - we would fund it back to your account (And guess what - in this case it would cost them NOTHING really ....but NO ....they want to be "HEROES") - so I'm gals their smartass attitude blew in their faces and that people can see it and know there are other BETTER choices out there.

Cheers,
S.

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ziggy123 View Post
There are MUCH BETTER options out there than Ear2Trade (Gauntlet) - I used their service and had TWO MAIN issues :

1. Trailing drawdown : If you say make $1500 and the daily loss limit is $1500 - and you went a bit above $1500 - then your reached you max limit - even though you MADE $1500 which should give you a cusion of $3000!!! Hypothetically - this was NEVER explained in plain English/well 2-3 years ago.

2. When they say you can trade say 6 contracts and CHARGE you an ARM and a LEG for it - guess what - you cannot trade 6 contracts (I think they call it some sliding scale or something like that ) - so you start with 2 - and have to generate income and pass a certain threshold before you can add another contract - VERY MISLEADING!!!!

*** Ans all of the ABOVE - is that they were or even are one of the MOST expensive!

Take Leeloo trading for example - they run specials sometimes (like this week for example) of 80% DISCOUNT - free resets etc - so instead of paying Earn2Trade same account $150 you would be paying $30+ dollars.

They are very RIGID/ inflexible in their responses - they could have comp'd you and said because it's nit really self explanatory - we would fund it back to your account (And guess what - in this case it would cost them NOTHING really ....but NO ....they want to be "HEROES") - so I'm gals their smartass attitude blew in their faces and that people can see it and know there are other BETTER choices out there.

Cheers,
S.

Thank you for the opinion. It reads a bit like you are pushing the other company more than commenting on us, but we can expand upon the points mentioned.

The trailing drawdown rule is described in our FAQ, and it is only applicable for Live accounts, not the evaluation since last July. The rule itself is clearly explained and linked to the purchase page, sent in the registration email, displayed in an FAQ and linked to the dashboard once you purchased. The fact that you are quoting how this was 2-3 years ago makes me think that it has been a while since you looked at our product, you may want to check again.

I don't know if we want to get into a pricing discussion - this is really every trader's own personal preference to make a price/value judgement. The rule however that you are talking about is called the progression ladder. Just the same way as the trailing drawdown, it is linked, emailed, placed in the dashboard, and we made explainer videos as well. To say that it comes off the left field, when you can also actually ballpark the name of the rule and what it is sounds like a bit of an exaggeration.

I'd suggest that you put away whatever old grudges you may be carrying and take a look at the products again - my agents and myself are happy to clarify any questions you may have before a purchase, so you can make an educated decision on whether this product is for you or not.

Best of luck trading through these troubled times!

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