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New trader, confused about courses

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  #1 (permalink)
bavan666
Mumbai, India
 
 
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Hi, I'm new to this platform and this is my first post,
I'm 19 and I want to be a full-time trader, I started last year and have spent a lot of time going through all the free resources on the internet, like babypips, varsity, and have read a ton of books on technical analysis.

I want to spend money now on a course because I feel the free resources don't really give you the complete picture and don't tell you what you need to do from start to finish, I was initially considering working for a prop trading firm but unfortunately, in my country, there aren't a lot of them, and the few good ones that exist only hire traders that are already profitable.

So my only options are learning online, but the thing is, no matter which course I look at, I always find some review out there on some forum saying that the course is a scam and a waste of money, it seems like there isn't a single good course out there that gives you professional training, for all the profitable traders out there, how did you learn how to trade? what were the resources that really helped you, are there any good courses out there that aren't a scam?

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  #2 (permalink)
 xplorer 
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bavan666 View Post
are there any good courses out there that aren't a scam?

Welcome bavan666


What is the outcome you expect from attending a good training course?

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  #3 (permalink)
 GFIs1 
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bavan666 View Post
Hi, I'm new to this platform and this is my first post,
I'm 19 and I want to be a full-time trader, I started last year and have spent a lot of time going through all the free resources on the internet, like babypips, varsity, and have read a ton of books on technical analysis.

I want to spend money now on a course because I feel the free resources don't really give you the complete picture and don't tell you what you need to do from start to finish, I was initially considering working for a prop trading firm but unfortunately, in my country, there aren't a lot of them, and the few good ones that exist only hire traders that are already profitable.

So my only options are learning online, but the thing is, no matter which course I look at, I always find some review out there on some forum saying that the course is a scam and a waste of money, it seems like there isn't a single good course out there that gives you professional training, for all the profitable traders out there, how did you learn how to trade? what were the resources that really helped you, are there any good courses out there that aren't a scam?

Well - hello to India
Don't waste your money on courses...
Trading is a "get a feeling of your instrument!". This takes of course TIME. Much of it.
Look into the most visited webinars here on fio.
If you start today and watch every interesting webinar 24 on 24 - you will not finish before new year.
Nothing to worry about - the successful traders are investing a lot of time to KNOW their INSTRUMENT -
by heart! Such said - welcome aboard!

GFIs1

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  #4 (permalink)
 kevinkdog   is a Vendor
 
 
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Not every trading course is a scam, but many are.

Trading is the hardest way to make easy money.

I personally learned the hard way - figuring it out by myself. It was REALLY expensive though, as I lost a lot of money to the markets before I figured it out.

Good Luck!

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bavan666
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xplorer View Post
Welcome bavan666


What is the outcome you expect from attending a good training course?

Well, I want to become a full-time trader, so something similar to the education they get at prop trading firms, I don't know exactly what they teach there, but I assume it must be good since they do it for a living, I was looking at some stuff by axia futures and Uc trading, but that's a little over my budget as of now, so will need to save for a while for that.

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 bobwest 
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bavan666 View Post
So my only options are learning online, but the thing is, no matter which course I look at, I always find some review out there on some forum saying that the course is a scam and a waste of money, it seems like there isn't a single good course out there that gives you professional training, for all the profitable traders out there, how did you learn how to trade? what were the resources that really helped you, are there any good courses out there that aren't a scam?

Let me help you with this: don't spend any money on any courses. At all. Ever.

They are not all bad -- although probably most are -- but whether good or bad, they will not give you what you need, which is enough familiarity with what markets do to be able to put good ideas to use. (Assuming their ideas are in fact good ones, which usually they are not.)

What you need is to get some understanding of some reasonable-sounding method, that makes sense to you and that appeals to you, and start to put it to use, for yourself, and make adjustments as you go. You may just completely toss it out in favor of some other ideas, which is fine. But work with them yourself, see what they offer, understand them in a very basic, hands-on way.

With enough screen time, you will find that some things work well for you and other do not, and you will be on your way. You can use group resources such as internet forums (like this one ), and you can learn from others, their successes and failures, and take their suggestions (cautiously, validating them for your yourself.) You could take a free charting service like TradingView and simulate trading. But find a way to be as hands-on as possible.

There are many ways you can put the time in to learn what works for you, but it is what works for you that matters, not what someone tells you will work.

I will say that I have given this advice to many new and not so new traders, and I think that generally it is not taken, which is too bad. I hope you will think hard about it before you send your money to anyone who tells you they will teach you how to trade.

And good luck.

Bob.

When one door closes, another opens.
-- Cervantes, Don Quixote
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  #7 (permalink)
 matthew28 
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My understanding is that there are still a lot of prop shop traders who don't actually make it. Also that they are trained with a good understanding of the different types of markets and of the tools they will use, but then as GFIS1 and Kevin said, they just spend the screen time watching the markets.

From everything I have read, the major advantage that prop traders have is not that they have particularly special training, just that, it is a proper job so they are focused on it for full-time hours everyday. And unlike a retail trader at home, they are in a professional environment and expected to behave professionally and work on themselves and demonstrate what they are learning and how they are achieving their goals. And lastly, they are given a set of tools to use and that's it, they're not perpetually searching for new indicators trying to prevent losing trades, or changing their methodology based on something they saw on the internet.

So focus, time commitment, professionalism and an environment where they can see other people succeeding with the same resources and tools to use that they have, leaving them then to just concentrate on improving themselves.

So not an answer to your question but lack of technical knowledge doesn't seem to be the problem for most people that have spent even a short time exploring the markets. At the end of the day price on a chart can either go up or down and you just need to decide whether you think price is likely to move up or down during the period you are interested in, and whether that will be profitable for you using a method you have confidence in (you need to work out the products that suits your comfort level for risk and volatility, the time you have available to trade and what trading style that suits, what tools make sense to you as to why they should work and why people should want to carry on selling after you have sold or buying after you have bought, then watch the market and track your sim results until you are confident, then trade as small as possible with the aim of increasing size with profit, not trying to make money quickly).

Like I say, not an answer, to your question and only based on my experience (retail not prop), and not any great trading expertise, but good luck anyway.

Trading, ideally structured, is a vehicle for expanding consciousness, not damaging it. - Brett Steenbarger
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 AllSeeker 
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As a fellow Indian, I get where you are coming from. So, if you do not mind, I would like to suggest first completing the education traditionally and side by side you can appear for many other "legitimate" trading industry courses. Which includes NSE certified courses, CMT, CFA, FRM etc (They are sufficient to give you basic knowledge and you will also acquire qualification to actually work in the industry.)

Trust me, having actual education here which can get you a job is very important for at least 4-5 years for new traders. And you are lucky that you have come here at tender age of 19.

Other than that, get into programming, even on basic level. Your future self will thank your current self a million times in future.

On your actual question, I would second bobwests words here. In fact if I were you I would copy paste that post somewhere to refer to again and again, trading industry is filled with many tempting offerings but it's usually a trap (Even Salman Khan is coming with crypto coin, if you get what I mean). Everytime you decide to put your money on line, you should give it a read one time and then really really think about it before actually handing over the money.


One more thing, why I'm insisting that you get formal education to work in the industry is that, only then you will come to know that there are many misconceptions about how industry works and how general public perceives it from outside. It is very interesting to study how hedge funds, mutual funds, banks, prop firms, algo firms, other services firms like brokerage and consulting firms work.

Nobody can teach you that until you get to behind the doors and trust me, success ratio of traders there is no better than retail end, its just that they stay far far longer in the game and trading is hardly their only income source. Also they have very deep pockets, thanks to their clients.

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bavan666
Mumbai, India
 
 
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AllSeeker View Post
As a fellow Indian, I get where you are coming from. So, if you do not mind, I would like to suggest first completing the education traditionally and side by side you can appear for many other "legitimate" trading industry courses. Which includes NSE certified courses, CMT, CFA, FRM etc (They are sufficient to give you basic knowledge and you will also acquire qualification to actually work in the industry.)

Trust me, having actual education here which can get you a job is very important for at least 4-5 years for new traders. And you are lucky that you have come here at tender age of 19.

Other than that, get into programming, even on basic level. Your future self will thank your current self a million times in future.

On your actual question, I would second bobwests words here. In fact if I were you I would copy paste that post somewhere to refer to again and again, trading industry is filled with many tempting offerings but it's usually a trap (Even Salman Khan is coming with crypto coin, if you get what I mean). Everytime you decide to put your money on line, you should give it a read one time and then really really think about it before actually handing over the money.


One more thing, why I'm insisting that you get formal education to work in the industry is that, only then you will come to know that there are many misconceptions about how industry works and how general public perceives it from outside. It is very interesting to study how hedge funds, mutual funds, banks, prop firms, algo firms, other services firms like brokerage and consulting firms work.

Nobody can teach you that until you get to behind the doors and trust me, success ratio of traders there is no better than retail end, its just that they stay far far longer in the game and trading is hardly their only income source. Also they have very deep pockets, thanks to their clients.

Thank you for your insights, I'm currently a 2nd-year finance student, I was originally thinking of pursuing a CFA, but then after going through the course contents I realized that it won't directly help my trading as it seems to be more investment-oriented, the same issue with preparing for CAT and going for an MBA, they don't teach what I want to learn, so I was thinking that rather than spending money over there, I could spend it on trading education which would directly be in line with my goals, but I guess the real education lies in just getting comfortable with the charts and spending a lot of time with them, since I have my classes in the morning and can't observe the markets live, I mostly observe and paper trade the emini on tradingview in the evening (morning in the US).
I had a question, when you say working in the industry, where exactly do you think I should apply?
As a derivatives dealer or something else?

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 AllSeeker 
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bavan666 View Post
Thank you for your insights, I'm currently a 2nd-year finance student, I was originally thinking of pursuing a CFA, but then after going through the course contents I realized that it won't directly help my trading as it seems to be more investment-oriented, the same issue with preparing for CAT and going for an MBA, they don't teach what I want to learn, so I was thinking that rather than spending money over there, I could spend it on trading education which would directly be in line with my goals, but I guess the real education lies in just getting comfortable with the charts and spending a lot of time with them, since I have my classes in the morning and can't observe the markets live, I mostly observe and paper trade the emini on tradingview in the evening (morning in the US).
I had a question, when you say working in the industry, where exactly do you think I should apply?
As a derivatives dealer or something else?

Trading industry has all sorts of jobs which will direct or indirectly land you in front of terminal or you will at the least be very familiar with the markets and all the jargons.

Take for example, doing CFA might not teach you directly to trade but it does land you a job in financial market research department of almost any decent company, and from there you make your way up with job security.

Take my own example, I did MBA myself, landed a job in a financial firm in Andheri, I was already trading my personal account for 2 years when I was student but when I got to the company, my exposure was huge.

I think what you are expecting as the end result of the "course" might be little unrealistic, nothing in education market (formal or informal) will teach you directly "how to trade", you will have to learn yourself. So its better to spend money in formal education and then making your way into industry as a full time job holder and then occasional trader rather than a full time trader with no job.

This is just my experience and 2c, as it has been mentioned in the thread already, generally this is not well received with the newer traders. But unfortunately its the truth. There is just nothing to gain from teaching a profitable thing to others, however its a quite a business to sell promises and false ideas.

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