Pressure on the order flow - What's that? - futures io
futures io



Pressure on the order flow - What's that?


Discussion in Traders Hideout

Updated
      Top Posters
    1. looks_one bipi with 4 posts (0 thanks)
    2. looks_two Cutloss with 2 posts (0 thanks)
    3. looks_3 TWDsje with 1 posts (0 thanks)
    4. looks_4 matthew28 with 1 posts (0 thanks)
    1. trending_up 612 views
    2. thumb_up 1 thanks given
    3. group 8 followers
    1. forum 9 posts
    2. attach_file 0 attachments




Welcome to futures io: the largest futures trading community on the planet, with well over 125,000 members
  • Genuine reviews from real traders, not fake reviews from stealth vendors
  • Quality education from leading professional traders
  • We are a friendly, helpful, and positive community
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts
  • We are here to help, just let us know what you need
You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

 
Search this Thread
 

Pressure on the order flow - What's that?

(login for full post details)
  #1 (permalink)
bipi
Milain Italia
 
 
Posts: 9 since Oct 2020
Thanks: 0 given, 0 received

Hello traders! I have a very noobish question to ask.

Futures and order flow trading in general is new to me, i'm using an indicator that shows the big orders on the chart, when the indicator shows me big sell/buy orders.

It says that some big sell orders give a buy pressure on the order-flow, and that some buy orders give sell pressure to the order-flow...shouldn't be the other way around?

Thank you very much!

Reply With Quote

Can you help answer these questions
from other members on futures io?
Price Action Swing Pro NT8
NinjaTrader
MCnet: (Multi-Timeframe) EMA @ Weekly Data on Daily Chart
MultiCharts
MCnet: (Multi-Timeframe) Directly Added Indicators vs Ba …
MultiCharts
Using fxd files in FXCM trading station
Platforms and Indicators
Looking for VisEMA indicator for NT7
NinjaTrader
 
Best Threads (Most Thanked)
in the last 7 days on futures io
The Beast Slayer, Lances NQ Trading Journal
37 thanks
Spoo-nalysis ES e-mini futures S&P 500
22 thanks
Michael Burry warns the Mother of All Crashes is coming
21 thanks
FairX is launching soon
17 thanks
Chart Trader Alternatives ?
14 thanks
 
(login for full post details)
  #2 (permalink)
 Cutloss 
Midway florida
 
 
Posts: 244 since May 2021

NO. there is always a counter party

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #3 (permalink)
bipi
Milain Italia
 
 
Posts: 9 since Oct 2020
Thanks: 0 given, 0 received


What does it mean? If the market get a big sell order, why it has a buying pressure on the order flow? How can someone know that w/o using an indicator for example? Thanks.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #4 (permalink)
 Cutloss 
Midway florida
 
 
Posts: 244 since May 2021

it means 75 % of the time the counter party has way more money than you or way more knowledge than you and they took the other side of your trade and THEY WILL not lose even if it means throwing more money and contracts against you to make the mkt move enough for them to exit.

lets say you buy 1 contract ok. and lets say I am an HFT large company with unlimited margin.


I basically like a fish on a coral reef just wait until all the retail traders make a trade off of a candle stick and i fill all those orders by selling to you and all of them.. like
a feeding frenzy.. now.. i know the only way to make money for myself is to scare you into selling where i can buy back my short.. see when you buy i am selling but when you
buy it is usually at the high end of the spread. the slippage you pay to be in the mkt. now i had an order there months ago and now you matched me so i wont let this opportunity turn into a loss.. i will sell hundreds more contracts to short term move the mkt, as i keep couniting my money as more and more of yuo buyers sell and i buy low.. since i sold high..

that is the negative pressure just understand that you never will be top dog ever. if you throw out a 100 lot they will eat your lunch on that too.. same as they do 1 5s and 10s.

thats all i got for this post. good luck

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #5 (permalink)
bipi
Milain Italia
 
 
Posts: 9 since Oct 2020
Thanks: 0 given, 0 received


Cutloss View Post
it means 75 % of the time the counter party has way more money than you or way more knowledge than you and they took the other side of your trade and THEY WILL not lose even if it means throwing more money and contracts against you to make the mkt move enough for them to exit.

lets say you buy 1 contract ok. and lets say I am an HFT large company with unlimited margin.


I basically like a fish on a coral reef just wait until all the retail traders make a trade off of a candle stick and i fill all those orders by selling to you and all of them.. like
a feeding frenzy.. now.. i know the only way to make money for myself is to scare you into selling where i can buy back my short.. see when you buy i am selling but when you
buy it is usually at the high end of the spread. the slippage you pay to be in the mkt. now i had an order there months ago and now you matched me so i wont let this opportunity turn into a loss.. i will sell hundreds more contracts to short term move the mkt, as i keep couniting my money as more and more of yuo buyers sell and i buy low.. since i sold high..

that is the negative pressure just understand that you never will be top dog ever. if you throw out a 100 lot they will eat your lunch on that too.. same as they do 1 5s and 10s.

thats all i got for this post. good luck

Thanks for taking the time to explain that, greatly appreciated!

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #6 (permalink)
 matthew28 
Legendary Elite_Member
Wiltshire, United Kingdom
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Jigsaw daytradr
Trading: US Equity Index Futures
 
matthew28's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,011 since Sep 2013
Thanks: 2,567 given, 1,860 received

Sometimes you can have large orders sitting in the order book, a large sell order above the market, and price quite often goes up to test that order and see if it is really somebody wanting to sell (as opposed for example to somebody holding the market down to get long before moving their order away and slamming price higher to run out stops and exit their position through that price flush.

Or if your indicator is showing transacted volume and you have for instance unusually large selling volume at a price then that shows buyers were absorbing the aggressive selling at that level and if price then pauses and starts to move back up the sellers will often cover by buying as they can see that price has stopped moving down at that point.
First the shortest term traders cover, then as price moves further away more people find themselves trapped short and cover and price moves up until it can find more people prepared to sell aggressively again.

Trading, ideally structured, is a vehicle for expanding consciousness, not damaging it. - Brett Steenbarger
Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #7 (permalink)
 shokunin 
Manchester, United Kingdom
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: Optimus Futures, Rithmic, Denali
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 44 since Jul 2020
Thanks: 4 given, 74 received


bipi View Post
Hello traders! I have a very noobish question to ask.

Futures and order flow trading in general is new to me, i'm using an indicator that shows the big orders on the chart, when the indicator shows me big sell/buy orders.

It says that some big sell orders give a buy pressure on the order-flow, and that some buy orders give sell pressure to the order-flow...shouldn't be the other way around?

Thank you very much!

Let's say all markets are uptrending - tech, healthcare, financials, crypto, whatever. There are many algorithms that are watching interrelated markets and buying those that are lagging and selling those that are advancing the others.

For example, consider QQQ, SPY, NQ are increasing in price but there is a big sell order on ES and only ES. This means ES is going to be held up, so that is going to create buying pressure on the ES as it tries to remain in step with the others.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #8 (permalink)
FuturesDayTrading
Columbia, MO
 
 
Posts: 14 since May 2021
Thanks: 1 given, 17 received

I've noticed that, too. My advice would be to go back over historical data and look at what the price does with those big sell/buy orders. Often times price will explode to a support/resistance area before reversing.

I use NT8 and it has an Order Flow Trade Detector. I used to use it, but it was too much noise on the chart. But, as I recall, whenever I saw a large order come through it often meant price was going to reverse. Again, just look back and see what the pattern is.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #9 (permalink)
 TWDsje   is a Vendor
 
 
Posts: 648 since Apr 2016
Thanks: 19 given, 708 received

There's multiple options for the trade detector in NinjaTrader. The default mode is consistent bid/ask. That means that it took a lot of volume for the bid ask to change. This is an indication of iceberg / refreshing orders. This is a large limit order that only shows a portion of the order on the order book, and then adds more after what is shown is filled. So basically price can't move because limit orders are holding it.

Such orders have the potential to hold price and cause reversals. They tend to show up after long moves when people take profits. If price moves through the iceberg there is often a spurt of momentum after they cross the threshold. Overall though I would be cautious about making huge conclusions from iceberg trades. These are often spread or hedge trades against the trend that have no predictive power.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #10 (permalink)
bipi
Milain Italia
 
 
Posts: 9 since Oct 2020
Thanks: 0 given, 0 received


Thanks to all for the insights

I missed to include in the post that the indicator tracks executed orders.

Reply With Quote


futures io Trading Community Traders Hideout > Pressure on the order flow - What's that?


Last Updated on June 4, 2021


Upcoming Webinars and Events
 

NinjaTrader Indicator Challenge!

Ongoing
 

Our 12-year anniversary w/ $$,$$$ prizes (check soon)

June
     



Copyright © 2021 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, Ph: +507 833-9432 (Panama and Intl), +1 888-312-3001 (USA and Canada), info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts