Specialize in trading only one instrument - futures io
futures io



Specialize in trading only one instrument


Discussion in Traders Hideout

Updated
      Top Posters
    1. looks_one redbarntrades with 10 posts (26 thanks)
    2. looks_two Trentatron with 8 posts (2 thanks)
    3. looks_3 TheTradingDojoMX with 5 posts (16 thanks)
    4. looks_4 NondualTrader with 4 posts (7 thanks)
      Best Posters
    1. looks_one Daytrader999 with 18 thanks per post
    2. looks_two vmodus with 10.5 thanks per post
    3. looks_3 Massive l with 6 thanks per post
    4. looks_4 redbarntrades with 2.6 thanks per post
    1. trending_up 5,442 views
    2. thumb_up 200 thanks given
    3. group 429 followers
    1. forum 68 posts
    2. attach_file 1 attachments




Welcome to futures io: the largest futures trading community on the planet, with well over 125,000 members
  • Genuine reviews from real traders, not fake reviews from stealth vendors
  • Quality education from leading professional traders
  • We are a friendly, helpful, and positive community
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts
  • We are here to help, just let us know what you need
You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

 
Search this Thread
 

Specialize in trading only one instrument

(login for full post details)
  #1 (permalink)
TheTradingDojoMX
Cuernavaca, Mexico
 
 
Posts: 10 since Feb 2021
Thanks: 4 given, 17 received

Hi everyone! I would like to know if peofessional traders specialize in trading only one instrument or if they trade more than one. What is the wisest thing to do from a daytrading perspective. Cheers!

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

Reply With Quote
The following 7 users say Thank You to TheTradingDojoMX for this post:

Journal Challenge April 2021 results (now extended!):
Competing for $1800 in prizes from Jigsaw
looks_oneMaking a Living with the Microsby sstheo
(266 thanks from 25 posts)
looks_twoSalao's Journalby Salao
(67 thanks from 12 posts)
looks_3Deeteeís DAX Trading Journal (time based)by Deetee
(48 thanks from 18 posts)
looks_4Learning to Profit - A journey in algorithms and optionsby Syntax
(37 thanks from 15 posts)
looks_5Maybe a little bit different journalby Malykubo
(17 thanks from 16 posts)
 
Best Threads (Most Thanked)
in the last 7 days on futures io
The Crude Dude Oil Trading System
87 thanks
Big Mike in Ecuador
76 thanks
Help improve the FIO community
41 thanks
The New Micro Contract - MICRO BITCOIN coming May 2021
30 thanks
futures io site changelog and issues/problem reporting
21 thanks
 
(login for full post details)
  #2 (permalink)
 vmodus 
Legendary Systematic Algo Trader
Somewhere, Delaware, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TradeStation, MultiCharts
Broker: TS Securities, OANDA
Trading: Energies, Grains, Fixed Income
 
vmodus's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,054 since Feb 2017
Thanks: 2,287 given, 2,201 received


TheTradingDojoMX View Post
Hi everyone! I would like to know if peofessional traders specialize in trading only one instrument or if they trade more than one. What is the wisest thing to do from a daytrading perspective. Cheers!

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

Personally (and professionally), I have become a believer in diversification. I am primarily a swing trader and work in the intermediate timeframes, with some longer and shorter term stuff thrown in for fun. Diversification allows me to smooth my equity curve (overall P&L if you will) and more easily absorb drawdowns. I try to build a portfolio of systems that have low correlation to each other.

As a day trader, I think the perspective changes. There are a few schools of thought (and I look forward to other's perspectives): specialize and get really good in one market/instrument. Or....diversify and get good enough in a basket of non-correlated instruments you can work with. I have one system I am developing that is a day trading system that only works on one instrument. It has a lot of potential and I may have an edge. If I were day trading this and it is my cash cow system, but at some point the market will change and I'm flat or bleeding out. I need to diversify to stay alive.

I know there are people who like to just focus on the index futures and that is it. There is high correlation there, typically, so it does not meet my criteria of diversification. Day trading multiple non-correlated instruments would be the way to go, I think. One of the systems I am building is for stocks (not my strong area for short-term trading), which meets the diversification criteria if I am trading across different market sectors.

For those traders who work at a firm, there may be a focus only on one market (energies) or instrument (Crude Light). I am sure that is dictated by their bosses and it may be driven as much by hedging as it may be for profit (think of an airline hedging crude). For those trading for a living, then things open up a bit and I think diversification can be important. I keep hearing 'diversification' from the pros.

I hope this helps, even if I rambled for a while!

~vmodus

Enjoy everything!
Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #3 (permalink)
 Massive l 
Legendary Market Wizard
Portland, OR
 
Experience: None
 
Massive l's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,012 since Mar 2011
Thanks: 1,698 given, 4,191 received


Everything I've traded this year so far in order of profitability.
My highest performer is 2x greater than my biggest loser.
Losers start at /M6EH21

/6JH21 Japanese Yen Futures,Mar-2021,ETH (prev. /6JH1)
/MYMH21 Micro E-mini Dow, Mar-21 (prev. /MYMH1)
/ESH21 E-mini S&P 500 Index Futures,Mar-2021,ETH (prev. /ESH1)
/HGH21 Copper Futures,Mar-2021, ETH (prev. /HGH1)
/M2KH21 Micro E-mini Russell 2000, Mar-21 (prev. /M2KH1)
/RTYH21 E-mini Russell 2000 Index Futures, Mar-21 (prev. /RTYH1)
/CLH21 Light Sweet Crude Oil Futures,Mar-2021,ETH (prev. /CLH1)
/E7H21 E-mini Euro FX Futures,Mar-2021,ETH (prev. /E7H1)
/MGCG21 E-micro Gold Futures,Feb-2021,ETH (prev. /MGCG1)
/XKH21 E-Mini Soybeans Futures,Mar-2021, ETH (prev. /XKH1)
/QMH21 NYMEX miNY Light Sweet Crude Oil Futures,Mar-2021,ETH (prev. /QMH1)
/ZSH21 Soybean Futures,Mar-2021,ETH (prev. /ZSH1)
/6AH21 Australian Dollar Futures,Mar-2021,ETH (prev. /6AH1)
/6CH21 Canadian Dollar Futures,Mar-2021,ETH (prev. /6CH1)
/QGG21 miNY Natural Gas Futures,Feb-2021, ETH (prev. /QGG1)
/MNQH21 Micro E-mini Nasdaq-100, Mar-21 (prev. /MNQH1)
/XCH21 E-Mini Corn Futures,Mar-2021, ETH (prev. /XCH1)
/M6EH21 E-Micro EUR/USD Future,Mar-2021,ETH (prev. /M6EH1)
/ZCH21 Corn Futures,Mar-2021,ETH (prev. /ZCH1)
/M6BH21 E-Micro GBP/USD Future,Mar-2021,ETH (prev. /M6BH1)
/MGCJ21 E-micro Gold Futures,Apr-2021,ETH (prev. /MGCJ1)
/SILH21 1000-oz Silver Futures,Mar-2021, ETH (prev. /SILH1)
/J7H21 E-mini Japanese Yen Futures,Mar-2021,ETH (prev. /J7H1)
/MESH21 Micro E-mini S&P 500, Mar-21 (prev. /MESH1)
/6EH21 Euro FX Futures,Mar-2021,ETH (prev. /6EH1)

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 9 users say Thank You to Massive l for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #4 (permalink)
 Fonz 
Miami, Fl
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Tradestation, Jigsaw
Trading: Futures
 
Fonz's Avatar
 
Posts: 28 since Feb 2012
Thanks: 14 given, 36 received

I believe successful professionals trade only one or very few instruments.
I day trade (or scalp, depending of your definition) the mini Dow and the US Treasury 30y. I also swing trade the mini S&P500 and sometimes the US Treasury 30y.
That is it!

I used to day and swing trade options, futures and also stocks and ETFs.. At the time I knew all about technical analysis. I used to trade earnings and all kind of events.

At the end, being specialized in one or two products was the key for me.
Hope this helps.

Reply With Quote
The following 12 users say Thank You to Fonz for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #5 (permalink)
 Daytrader999 
Legendary Market Wizard
Ilsede, Germany
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader 8
Broker: Rithmic / CQG / Ninja Trader Brokerage
Trading: NQ
 
Daytrader999's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,377 since Sep 2011
Thanks: 1,538 given, 2,021 received

I used to trade many different instruments like ES, YM, NQ, RTY, CL, GC, SI, HG, NG, ZS, UB etc., but as my trading grew 'more serious' over the years, I found out that I can't focus on more than max. two instruments simultaneously.

I experienced as well that it's essential to find THE market which fits best to your own personality and psyche.

And over time, you get to know the 'true character' of this particular market and become REALLY good at it.

So I stick with NQ, and from my own experience, focussing on only one instrument was the key and a game changer for me on my way to consistency.

"If you don't design your own life plan, chances are you'll fall into someone else's plan. And guess what they have planned for you? Not much." - Jim Rohn
Reply With Quote
The following 18 users say Thank You to Daytrader999 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #6 (permalink)
TheTradingDojoMX
Cuernavaca, Mexico
 
 
Posts: 10 since Feb 2021
Thanks: 4 given, 17 received


vmodus View Post
Personally (and professionally), I have become a believer in diversification. I am primarily a swing trader and work in the intermediate timeframes, with some longer and shorter term stuff thrown in for fun. Diversification allows me to smooth my equity curve (overall P&L if you will) and more easily absorb drawdowns. I try to build a portfolio of systems that have low correlation to each other.

As a day trader, I think the perspective changes. There are a few schools of thought (and I look forward to other's perspectives): specialize and get really good in one market/instrument. Or....diversify and get good enough in a basket of non-correlated instruments you can work with. I have one system I am developing that is a day trading system that only works on one instrument. It has a lot of potential and I may have an edge. If I were day trading this and it is my cash cow system, but at some point the market will change and I'm flat or bleeding out. I need to diversify to stay alive.

I know there are people who like to just focus on the index futures and that is it. There is high correlation there, typically, so it does not meet my criteria of diversification. Day trading multiple non-correlated instruments would be the way to go, I think. One of the systems I am building is for stocks (not my strong area for short-term trading), which meets the diversification criteria if I am trading across different market sectors.

For those traders who work at a firm, there may be a focus only on one market (energies) or instrument (Crude Light). I am sure that is dictated by their bosses and it may be driven as much by hedging as it may be for profit (think of an airline hedging crude). For those trading for a living, then things open up a bit and I think diversification can be important. I keep hearing 'diversification' from the pros.

I hope this helps, even if I rambled for a while!

Thank you for taking the time to answer my question. I completely understand where you're coming from. One of the drawbacks of diversification, IMO, is that you tend to lose focus. I think it'd be better to be hyperfocused in just one thing (from a daytrader perspective). Due to the fact that you are swing trading, it makes perfect sense to diversify. Cheers!

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to TheTradingDojoMX for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #7 (permalink)
TheTradingDojoMX
Cuernavaca, Mexico
 
 
Posts: 10 since Feb 2021
Thanks: 4 given, 17 received


Daytrader999 View Post
I used to trade many different instruments like ES, YM, NQ, RTY, CL, GC, SI, HG, NG, ZS, UB etc., but as my trading grew 'more serious' over the years, I found out that I can't focus on more than max. two instruments simultaneously.

I experienced as well that it's essential to find THE market which fits best to your own personality and psyche.

And over time, you get to know the 'true character' of this particular market and become REALLY good at it.

So I stick with NQ, and from my own experience, focussing on only one instrument was the key and a game changer for me on my way to consistency.

Hi there! I concur. I think that being hyperfocused on just one market tends to lead to consistent profitability. I trade NQ and MNQ as well.

Reply With Quote
The following 6 users say Thank You to TheTradingDojoMX for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #8 (permalink)
TheTradingDojoMX
Cuernavaca, Mexico
 
 
Posts: 10 since Feb 2021
Thanks: 4 given, 17 received


Fonz View Post
I believe successful professionals trade only one or very few instruments.
I day trade (or scalp, depending of your definition) the mini Dow and the US Treasury 30y. I also swing trade the mini S&P500 and sometimes the US Treasury 30y.
That is it!

I used to day and swing trade options, futures and also stocks and ETFs.. At the time I knew all about technical analysis. I used to trade earnings and all kind of events.

At the end, being specialized in one or two products was the key for me.
Hope this helps.

Hey! Thanks! I sure helps a lot! I've heard that NYSE Specialists and Nasdaq MM trade just one stock (I don't know if that's true though).

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to TheTradingDojoMX for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #9 (permalink)
TheTradingDojoMX
Cuernavaca, Mexico
 
 
Posts: 10 since Feb 2021
Thanks: 4 given, 17 received


Massive l View Post
Everything I've traded this year so far in order of profitability.
My highest performer is 2x greater than my biggest loser.
Losers start at /M6EH21

/6JH21 Japanese Yen Futures,Mar-2021,ETH (prev. /6JH1)
/MYMH21 Micro E-mini Dow, Mar-21 (prev. /MYMH1)
/ESH21 E-mini S&P 500 Index Futures,Mar-2021,ETH (prev. /ESH1)
/HGH21 Copper Futures,Mar-2021, ETH (prev. /HGH1)
/M2KH21 Micro E-mini Russell 2000, Mar-21 (prev. /M2KH1)
/RTYH21 E-mini Russell 2000 Index Futures, Mar-21 (prev. /RTYH1)
/CLH21 Light Sweet Crude Oil Futures,Mar-2021,ETH (prev. /CLH1)
/E7H21 E-mini Euro FX Futures,Mar-2021,ETH (prev. /E7H1)
/MGCG21 E-micro Gold Futures,Feb-2021,ETH (prev. /MGCG1)
/XKH21 E-Mini Soybeans Futures,Mar-2021, ETH (prev. /XKH1)
/QMH21 NYMEX miNY Light Sweet Crude Oil Futures,Mar-2021,ETH (prev. /QMH1)
/ZSH21 Soybean Futures,Mar-2021,ETH (prev. /ZSH1)
/6AH21 Australian Dollar Futures,Mar-2021,ETH (prev. /6AH1)
/6CH21 Canadian Dollar Futures,Mar-2021,ETH (prev. /6CH1)
/QGG21 miNY Natural Gas Futures,Feb-2021, ETH (prev. /QGG1)
/MNQH21 Micro E-mini Nasdaq-100, Mar-21 (prev. /MNQH1)
/XCH21 E-Mini Corn Futures,Mar-2021, ETH (prev. /XCH1)
/M6EH21 E-Micro EUR/USD Future,Mar-2021,ETH (prev. /M6EH1)
/ZCH21 Corn Futures,Mar-2021,ETH (prev. /ZCH1)
/M6BH21 E-Micro GBP/USD Future,Mar-2021,ETH (prev. /M6BH1)
/MGCJ21 E-micro Gold Futures,Apr-2021,ETH (prev. /MGCJ1)
/SILH21 1000-oz Silver Futures,Mar-2021, ETH (prev. /SILH1)
/J7H21 E-mini Japanese Yen Futures,Mar-2021,ETH (prev. /J7H1)
/MESH21 Micro E-mini S&P 500, Mar-21 (prev. /MESH1)
/6EH21 Euro FX Futures,Mar-2021,ETH (prev. /6EH1)

That's definitely quite a long list!
I'm glad you find diversification profitable.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to TheTradingDojoMX for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #10 (permalink)
 Massive l 
Legendary Market Wizard
Portland, OR
 
Experience: None
 
Massive l's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,012 since Mar 2011
Thanks: 1,698 given, 4,191 received



TheTradingDojoMX View Post
That's definitely quite a long list!
I'm glad you find diversification profitable.

I think many years ago when there wasn't as much data available to write scripts and algos you had to specialize. You would never have to time to track down opportunities in other markets. Now we can run scripts across multiple markets and find opportunities within seconds.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 5 users say Thank You to Massive l for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #11 (permalink)
 vmodus 
Legendary Systematic Algo Trader
Somewhere, Delaware, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TradeStation, MultiCharts
Broker: TS Securities, OANDA
Trading: Energies, Grains, Fixed Income
 
vmodus's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,054 since Feb 2017
Thanks: 2,287 given, 2,201 received


TheTradingDojoMX View Post
Thank you for taking the time to answer my question. I completely understand where you're coming from. One of the drawbacks of diversification, IMO, is that you tend to lose focus. I think it'd be better to be hyperfocused in just one thing (from a daytrader perspective). Due to the fact that you are swing trading, it makes perfect sense to diversify. Cheers!

Actually, the trick for me is automation. Like @Daytrader999 , I would probably only be able to focus on a few instruments if I were trading manually.

~vmodus

Enjoy everything!
Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 6 users say Thank You to vmodus for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #12 (permalink)
 Schnook 
Munich, Germany
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: Interactive Brokers
Trading: liquid products
 
Schnook's Avatar
 
Posts: 459 since Jul 2016
Thanks: 877 given, 1,552 received

One important consideration that I haven't seen mentioned yet is timeframes. If you're trading very short, intraday time-frames, then you will need to focus on just a few markets. If you're trading off a 5-minute chart, for example, then every single one of those five-minute bars has some relevance to your entries, exits, and position risk-management. Even if you are fully automated, you need to monitor your systems and trades in real time.

As has also been mentioned, every market has its own behavioral quirks, and you need an intimate knowledge of these characteristics in order to be consistent, especially on an intra-day basis.

But if you're a discretionary, big-picture macro trader in the style of, say Stan Druckenmiller, then you will trade every product available, only with much less frequency, and not at the same time. You'll be focused on daily, weekly, and monthly charts and can take a bit more time to formulate strategies and manage positions.

In the end it comes down to an effective allocation of your limited analytical resources. If you stretch these out too thin, your risk of missing something, or making a mistake, goes up exponentially, and ultimately this type of carelessness can quickly wreck even an otherwise effective strategy.

Reply With Quote
The following 10 users say Thank You to Schnook for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #13 (permalink)
 SBtrader82 
Rovigo (ITALY)
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: SierraChart, MotiveWave
Broker: Rithmic, Dorman, Interactive Brokers
Trading: Emini, Nasdaq, DAX, Bund, IBEX
 
SBtrader82's Avatar
 
Posts: 417 since Feb 2018
Thanks: 162 given, 915 received

I am now trading only two instruments and only one at a time. However I have tried many different products over the years and I still take some trades on other products from time to time.
I think that even if you will probably end up focusing on only a couple of products, trying different instruments will allow you to understand markets better.

To gain understanding you need to maximize diversity, this is true in many fields....then with time you will seek simplicity and narrow down your focus.

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 6 users say Thank You to SBtrader82 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #14 (permalink)
JohnTCHT
Jacksonville, FL USA
 
 
Posts: 9 since Jun 2017
Thanks: 0 given, 9 received

I trade the mini S&P for many reasons. The fact that the return per tick is one of the highest ($12.50), volatility relative to other instruments is lower to lessen risk of premature stop out, liquidity to enable fulfillment of limit entries and exits to maintain your targets for accurate returns per entry, and lastly over time, I have acquired a better understanding of how it generally moves to enable a better reading of where it is going.

Reply With Quote
The following 6 users say Thank You to JohnTCHT for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #15 (permalink)
 oddsgo 
Cincinnati, OH USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: MotiveWave, TWS
Trading: Emini ES, Stocks, Options
 
Posts: 2 since Jul 2020
Thanks: 1 given, 8 received


TheTradingDojoMX View Post
Hi everyone! I would like to know if peofessional traders specialize in trading only one instrument or if they trade more than one. What is the wisest thing to do from a daytrading perspective. Cheers!

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

Years ago I worked on a fixed income trading desk at Bear Stearns. The Bear was considered one of the best "trading houses" on the street since its investment banking side wasn't that strong. The firm was built on trading and we had huge credit lines for both flow and prop trading. Ace Greenberg who was a legendary trader and COO had a rule that you only traded "your market." The rationale being the complexity and nuance within a market required specialization and focus. Our head trader tried to hedge a position going bad with an offsetting somewhat correlated (theoretically) position in another type of security. Ace found out and fired him on the spot in front of the whole trading desk.

Derivatives and an understanding of correlation relationships have probably changed that rule, but I think it makes sense generally. For me dealing with the information flow across markets and the managing of positions requires the economies of scale associated with specialization and focus.

Reply With Quote
The following 6 users say Thank You to oddsgo for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #16 (permalink)
 RoqRif 
Everett, WA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader 8
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 21 since Dec 2019
Thanks: 4 given, 18 received

I think this is a very good question and in my opinion it depends on how you trade meaning the frequency (how many how often) and the length (how long you stay in a trade) of your trades. All traders have a method or system that they apply to their trading. If you apply that method and place your entries based on a Day chart, 240 Min chart or even a 15 min chart in theory that would be the frequency on how often you would need to make a decision and it would be easier to manage multiple instruments. However, that very same method applied to a 4 tick Renko chart would be more difficult as you can't afford to miss your set up because your are scanning other instruments. Personally, I scalp and my average trade almost never lasts more than a few min so there is an advantage to getting to know how one instrument moves and sticking with it. Some days will be better than others.

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to RoqRif for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #17 (permalink)
 Angelo1 
Adelaide Australia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja > MC
Broker: AMPs
Trading: ES
 
Angelo1's Avatar
 
Posts: 145 since May 2011
Thanks: 1,859 given, 76 received

Great question @TheTradingDojoMX,
it's brought up a few answers for many of my questions,

as a non profitable trader since the GFC
i swing from not knowing whether to stick to 1 inst or many, when i try 1 inst i fail to wait for the set ups, when i swing and use alerts i'm probably asleep, i want to swing rather than scalp but scalping feeds my need to want to trade, and so the vicious cycle of loses goes, i don't write code so that's not an option, have looked at recommendation subscription but don't like being fed and paid for mentoring a few times, wasted money, never say never, haven't met the right fit,
only grace is knowing i am being philanthropic and knowing success can be achieved,

my journey is finding the obstacles i don't see preventing the progress, like what combination will suit ME as in time frame someone mentioned or perhaps using options due to time constraints or simply a lack of ability to learn the skill for set ups or edge is even a consideration in the mix of all the strategies that will be listed in this thread,

the reason i mention this is because it would be interesting to know what your current method is and what your experience of it has been?
how long have you been trading ?
or are you a newbie and just curious before you start,,,

look forward to your reply,

"If you believe you CAN, OR believe you CAN'T, you're RIGHT!"
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to Angelo1 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #18 (permalink)
 ragic 
Cambridgeshire, UK
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT8
Trading: ES, Stocks
 
Posts: 24 since Jun 2011
Thanks: 30 given, 26 received

I think it also depends on how you find your trades..

Do you look for technical setups (maybe a break of an Inside day,) or wait for Data releases, in which case you've probably got time to look at quite a few markets, waiting for your situation to happen.

Or do you just trade ongoing momentum/pullbacks/reversals etc, as situations arise... which probably means you don't have time to look at several markets..

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #19 (permalink)
 Dianoia 
London
 
Experience: Master
Platform: MC
Trading: 6A
 
Posts: 15 since Jun 2018
Thanks: 3 given, 35 received

Professional traders are, in almost all cases, very specialized in a narrow area (I know, because I traded professionally for many years). The better you know your product, the more likely you are to find an edge (whatever it may be). Every product is different and unless you are on top of all the fine details you will never make money. Once you have proven that you can make money in one product, you can diversify and go wherever the best opportunity is. But until then, and for most people that is years down the road from when you start, stick to one product, and try to make one set-up/approach work. It's very difficult and most people are never able to make this happen.

The mistake many retail traders do is to go from product to product, platform to platform, indicator to indicator... constantly looking for that "secret sauce". The only way to become profitable is to focus really hard on one thing. Its tedious and boring. But trading isn't supposed to be fun. Treat it as a business, not a hobby, and think of it as a puzzle. Don't give up until you have either solved it or feel confident you cannot do it. At that point you can move on to a different approach or decide trading isn't for you.

Reply With Quote
The following 14 users say Thank You to Dianoia for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #20 (permalink)
 myrrdin 
Market Wizard
Linz Austria
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Zaner360, TWS, Vantage
Broker: DeCarley, IAB, RJO
Trading: Commodities
 
Posts: 1,784 since Nov 2014
Thanks: 2,930 given, 2,419 received


vmodus View Post
Personally (and professionally), I have become a believer in diversification. I am primarily a swing trader and work in the intermediate timeframes, with some longer and shorter term stuff thrown in for fun. Diversification allows me to smooth my equity curve (overall P&L if you will) and more easily absorb drawdowns. I try to build a portfolio of systems that have low correlation to each other.

As a day trader, I think the perspective changes. There are a few schools of thought (and I look forward to other's perspectives): specialize and get really good in one market/instrument. Or....diversify and get good enough in a basket of non-correlated instruments you can work with. I have one system I am developing that is a day trading system that only works on one instrument. It has a lot of potential and I may have an edge. If I were day trading this and it is my cash cow system, but at some point the market will change and I'm flat or bleeding out. I need to diversify to stay alive.

I know there are people who like to just focus on the index futures and that is it. There is high correlation there, typically, so it does not meet my criteria of diversification. Day trading multiple non-correlated instruments would be the way to go, I think. One of the systems I am building is for stocks (not my strong area for short-term trading), which meets the diversification criteria if I am trading across different market sectors.

For those traders who work at a firm, there may be a focus only on one market (energies) or instrument (Crude Light). I am sure that is dictated by their bosses and it may be driven as much by hedging as it may be for profit (think of an airline hedging crude). For those trading for a living, then things open up a bit and I think diversification can be important. I keep hearing 'diversification' from the pros.

I hope this helps, even if I rambled for a while!

I fully agree.

I am swing trader and investor, who trades for his living.

I like having a large tool box. In many years I had to find out that there are times where the one tool works well and times, where the other tool works well. Thus, I trade futures as well as options, grains as well as metals and indices.

In addition, this diversification helps me to get a smoother earnings curve.

Best regards from Austria, Myrrdin

Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to myrrdin for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #21 (permalink)
ASU2
Jacksonville, FL
 
 
Posts: 3 since Nov 2017
Thanks: 2 given, 3 received

Great question. I've been experimenting with this and for me the answer is 2 dissimilar instruments. I trade based on price action, but it doesn't matter as I think we all or most have our own set of trading rules and discipline. For me a third instrument distracts from my ability to focus and do my best to understand what the markets are telling me. I know lots of traders that trade only one instrument. To make more money, increase your size when your account is the right size to take the risk. Trading requires patience, which can be boring. I take about 2-5 trades per day per instrument. For me, the trick to making trading a successful business is to avoid losing trades.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to ASU2 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #22 (permalink)
 Simmo196326 
Maryborough Queensland
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja Trader
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 1 since Jul 2016
Thanks: 3 given, 0 received


TheTradingDojoMX View Post
Hi everyone! I would like to know if peofessional traders specialize in trading only one instrument or if they trade more than one. What is the wisest thing to do from a daytrading perspective. Cheers!

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

From a day trading perspective, trading multiple Instruments allows for more setups occurring.This is especially so for swing traders. Having said that, trading only one lets you become very

familiar with the best times to trade it and when not to. etc. I started off only trading the ES, then moved onto CL, NQ, YM etc.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #23 (permalink)
 Greenbacks 
Dallas, TX
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: Emin ES
 
Greenbacks's Avatar
 
Posts: 3 since Oct 2020
Thanks: 2 given, 1 received

It depends on your life philosophy....

EITHER

Jack of all

OR

Master of one...

In the end whatever suits your personality and gives you success.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Greenbacks for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #24 (permalink)
 fivewhy 
Fort Lauderdale, Florida, USA
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NT8, Bookmap
Trading: ES, MES
 
Posts: 158 since Feb 2017
Thanks: 73 given, 144 received

Bottom line: it depends simply on your time horizon.

The longer you hold your position, the more important is diversification.

For daytrading, generally (imo) it's better to focus on a single individual instrument but with an eye on related/correlated instruments.

The reason for this is that the character of a particular instrument is more apparent on short time frame, which benefits the person who focuses rather than diversified.

My thoughts.

Edit: wanted to add this video with David Pavlatos (husband of Linda Raske) speaking; he discusses some of the thoughts/principles that are relevant to this thread. He doesn't specifically discuss whether to focus or diversify, but he does talk about looking to related markets and (at least initially) learn a particular instrument and its behaviors. Take it fwiw. I think he's been trading for longer than I've been breathing.


Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to fivewhy for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #25 (permalink)
SunTrader
Boca Raton, FL
 
 
Posts: 149 since Nov 2018
Thanks: 39 given, 102 received

Blab, blab, blab. Personal preference.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #26 (permalink)
Laconic
New York, New York, USA
 
 
Posts: 30 since Jun 2016
Thanks: 12 given, 40 received

The number of ways to make money trading is unlimited. The key is to find the way that suits your personality best. And once you have found that, stick with it... any approach will have periods when it doesnít work as it should, otherwise everyone would do it. When the approach that best suits your personality goes through one of its ineffective periods, you must resist the urge to find something else. The something else likely wonít suit your personality, will lose you money, and will leave you in the wrong place to take advantage of your favored approach when it starts working again.

For example, one trader may prefer to trade very frequently with tight stops. For that trader, the possibility of a large loss on a position is too stressful. Another trader may prefer to trade much less frequently, with a higher target and bigger stops. For that trader, the concept of having to make constant decisions all day about whether to be in or out is more stressful. Figure out which trader you are, and stick with it.

One word of caution. Although I believe that trading multiple markets is a valid approach for some percentage of traders, I would beware of and approach or ďedgeĒ that claims to work ďin all markets across all timeframes.Ē I think approaches that have applicability across many markets, like long term trend following, only ďworkĒ if the trader has tolerance for wide swings in equity across long timeframes. If you canít handle that, and want to trade multiple markets, you should take time to learn some of the idiosyncrasies of each market, and not trade them the same way.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Laconic for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #27 (permalink)
 mertmj 
Denver, CO
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: ninjaTrader, Thinkorswim
Trading: Futures, Options, indexes
 
Posts: 1 since Aug 2020
Thanks: 0 given, 0 received

This question hit my email, as I was putting together a training program for a new trader I'm working with. I do believe multiple, non-correlated instruments in a basket up to one's ability and comfort level is the most successful, consistent way to systematically trade. BUT, the market is made of people (and computers programmed by people), and though there are individual differences in instruments, the "move and flow" of markets have a rhythm. Learning market rhythm and the intrinsic "feel" is imperative to successful trading AND investing (there is a difference...).

Depending on the abilities and previous knowledge one brings to the table, I find beginning on one market, multiple time-frames &/or ticks, and different indicators, helps someone notice and recognize patterns. Then plugging in systems and decision'ing trading platforms, and one can synchronize what they see in the patterns to the buy/sell signals they are producing with their systems. I love the "click" that occurs with folks realize the similarities in markets between different instruments' movements, as they introduce different instruments to their mindset.

Thank you for your excellent timing! I'm new to this site, and love to learn and teach. My First Post...Take it for what it's worth...free.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #28 (permalink)
 asahu 
Oakville, Ontario/Canada
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT8
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 3 since May 2020
Thanks: 4 given, 0 received

Hi, yes I am trading only ES until in futures but also trade other stocks in options.

Cheers.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #29 (permalink)
NondualTrader
Rochester, NY
 
 
Posts: 8 since Aug 2020
Thanks: 5 given, 10 received

When I first started with trading I was just on the equities side scanning for stocks. I moved to futures within a few months of that and have pretty much exclusively scalped and day traded the ES and MES since then. I do look at correlated and inversely correlated markets, particularly in the premarket to get a sense of whether the overall market is more risk on or risk off but that is relatively a small part of what I do.

I know of some prop traders who trade large intraday positions and trade a few different instruments simultaneously, paying a lot of attention to correlations and inverse correlations particularly around geopolitical events. I personally just structure trades based on where the market is in the spectrum between extreme trend and extreme trading range and adapt to the market conditions rather than looking for very specific setups or events. There's plenty of opportunities right in the ES and MES throughout the session so I don't look at other things. I make my decisions based on market generated information and want to minimize potential distractions as much as possible. If I were looking to hold for longer periods of time then I'd diversify to a greater extent (probably emphasizing equities and ETFs over futures for overnight positions), likely incorporate some fundamental analysis, and apply hedging strategies when appropriate.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #30 (permalink)
toucan94506bm
danville ca usa
 
 
Posts: 18 since Aug 2015
Thanks: 1 given, 30 received

as a new trader, you probably want to start with one future symbol and trade that until you have developed a profitable way to trade. if your trading process works across other futures, you can add as many symbols as you can manage at one time. More symbols give you the advantage of picking the best setups versus trading one symbol where you might force some trades. it will take a lot of experience and a good trading process to manage more than one trade at a time.

i've been day trading for 25 years. stocks for 10 years and now futures for 15 years. I have worked up to trading across 13 futures at the same time. but i have the right process and my trades are managed automatically. I have tried trading 17 futures and 21 futures and feel that my 13 is the maximum that i can daytrade at the same time. note that i'm not in more than 4-5 trades at the same time..

cheers
toucan

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to toucan94506bm for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #31 (permalink)
geistflow
Toronto Canada
 
 
Posts: 27 since Dec 2018
Thanks: 17 given, 19 received


oddsgo View Post
Years ago I worked on a fixed income trading desk at Bear Stearns. The Bear was considered one of the best "trading houses" on the street since its investment banking side wasn't that strong. The firm was built on trading and we had huge credit lines for both flow and prop trading. Ace Greenberg who was a legendary trader and COO had a rule that you only traded "your market." The rationale being the complexity and nuance within a market required specialization and focus. Our head trader tried to hedge a position going bad with an offsetting somewhat correlated (theoretically) position in another type of security. Ace found out and fired him on the spot in front of the whole trading desk.

Derivatives and an understanding of correlation relationships have probably changed that rule, but I think it makes sense generally. For me dealing with the information flow across markets and the managing of positions requires the economies of scale associated with specialization and focus.

Thanks for sharing the experience you had at Bear Stearns. Would you also consider making another thread containing other stories from your time there? The pro trading world is quite interesting to me. I've only been able to learn about it through the teachers of courses I'm taking but I am always curious to learn more from those who've had first hand experience.

As for trading one market or more, right now I'm finding I do best with just one. I definitely think expansion is possible with more experience and discipline, but right now I'm finding I start to overlook important things or wrongly just assume certain conditions are holding when my attention has to be split between multiple markets.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to geistflow for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #32 (permalink)
 oddsgo 
Cincinnati, OH USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: MotiveWave, TWS
Trading: Emini ES, Stocks, Options
 
Posts: 2 since Jul 2020
Thanks: 1 given, 8 received


geistflow View Post
Thanks for sharing the experience you had at Bear Stearns. Would you also consider making another thread containing other stories from your time there? The pro trading world is quite interesting to me. I've only been able to learn about it through the teachers of courses I'm taking but I am always curious to learn more from those who've had first hand experience.

As for trading one market or more, right now I'm finding I do best with just one. I definitely think expansion is possible with more experience and discipline, but right now I'm finding I start to overlook important things or wrongly just assume certain conditions are holding when my attention has to be split between multiple markets.

Sure. I stopped officially stopped working on The Street in the mid-90's, but I'm flattered to be asked to share experiences -- even if they are a bit dated.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to oddsgo for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #33 (permalink)
abev
seattle washington
 
 
Posts: 38 since Feb 2019
Thanks: 7 given, 14 received

I know of no day traders, professional or otherwise, who trade only one instrument day after day. I know of many day traders who end up trading just one instrument on any given day; not out of choice, but because they cannot find another instrument that fits their criteria for a good trade. So to answer the second part of your question, to follow a strategy that depends upon one instrument which will give you the correct setups to profitably trade every day all day is unlikely. I'm not sure that qualifies as being "unwise" but I doubt it will allow for Trader Tax Status to be maintained.

To be clear, I know of traders who specialize in just one instrument but they are not day traders. They may not trade for days while waiting for a good setup. These are not day traders by the TTS definition which is what I assumed the question was about.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to abev for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #34 (permalink)
 Shmo7 
Toronto, Canada
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Interactive Brokers
Trading: NQ, RTY, CL, USD/CAD, EUR/USD
 
Posts: 14 since Aug 2017
Thanks: 31 given, 40 received

I have a number of instruments that I watch and occasionally trade, when set-ups are perfect...Ö but I trade the NQ, day in and day out. I know how it moves and I've become very familiar with its price action.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Shmo7 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #35 (permalink)
 chartmojo2 
Missioul Montana usa
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninjatrader and others
Trading: nq, es, Hype cool runner Ipo's months out short into lockup expirations. UVXY, TSLA options
 
Posts: 11 since Feb 2016
Thanks: 1 given, 33 received

That is a good question and there is no one size fits all Holy Grail answer. Some pro's do specialize in one instrument, or a few. Some specialize in one trading setup, or a few, in one or many instruments. Each trader has to go through a journey to arrive at what suits them; what works for them and what does not. Traders see different things and continue to evolve and see different things over time as well. Opinions are a snapshot in time of understanding and perspective. It comes down to what you "see" in the markets, and how well you execute given what you see and what suits your interests, abilities and psychology/personality.

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to chartmojo2 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #36 (permalink)
Sagal
Strasbourg, France
 
 
Posts: 114 since Mar 2019
Thanks: 32 given, 89 received


Dianoia View Post
Professional traders are, in almost all cases, very specialized in a narrow area (I know, because I traded professionally for many years). The better you know your product, the more likely you are to find an edge (whatever it may be). Every product is different and unless you are on top of all the fine details you will never make money. Once you have proven that you can make money in one product, you can diversify and go wherever the best opportunity is. But until then, and for most people that is years down the road from when you start, stick to one product, and try to make one set-up/approach work. It's very difficult and most people are never able to make this happen.

The mistake many retail traders do is to go from product to product, platform to platform, indicator to indicator... constantly looking for that "secret sauce". The only way to become profitable is to focus really hard on one thing. Its tedious and boring. But trading isn't supposed to be fun. Treat it as a business, not a hobby, and think of it as a puzzle. Don't give up until you have either solved it or feel confident you cannot do it. At that point you can move on to a different approach or decide trading isn't for you.

I like your post.
As a part-time investor/trader even by restricting myself to around 10 commodities, I realized that I missed opportunities so often (almost every day...). The opportunity to say that as this year I want to focus on having a very close look to my portfolio of PM, I'm focusing on mostly 2 MP this year: Silver and Platinum but of course I watch as closely Gold and Platinum and US Dollar Index and US 10y and 5 and 10y TIPS, bitcoins and a whole bunch of economical indicators so on...Fully busy anyway for trading on only 2 commodities...

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #37 (permalink)
 speck 
Kharkiv, Ukraine
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: Infinity Futures
Trading: ES
 
speck's Avatar
 
Posts: 24 since Dec 2012
Thanks: 137 given, 32 received

A personality type along the exrtaversion - intraversion line comes into play here.

I'm an introvert, so sticking to just one instrument suits me.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #38 (permalink)
Cooie
Canada
 
 
Posts: 5 since Apr 2010
Thanks: 0 given, 2 received

I guess if you have figured out the nuance of more than 1 then it does not hurt. Some products trade similarly, but are currently setup a little bit different setup-wise that it might be preferable to do one than the other, or even in different directions, for example ES/YM. But you have to have a grasp of both and if they operate during the same hours you have to be a pretty good multitasker to keep track.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #39 (permalink)
ThescalperAnalyst
rome italy
 
 
Posts: 12 since Feb 2021
Thanks: 13 given, 31 received

Hi, I believe for my very modest experience, that initially focusing on a single max 2 instruments is the smartest choice. Especially if you are a discretionary trader. This allows us to discover the true nature of a market and the internal dynamics that make it up. In this way we are better prepared to handle even the most difficult situations. I now work I am on ym (85%) and es is this is helping me a lot.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to ThescalperAnalyst for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #40 (permalink)
Trentatron
Knoxville
 
 
Posts: 19 since Mar 2021
Thanks: 30 given, 12 received


NondualTrader View Post
When I first started with trading I was just on the equities side scanning for stocks. I moved to futures within a few months of that and have pretty much exclusively scalped and day traded the ES and MES since then. I do look at correlated and inversely correlated markets, particularly in the premarket to get a sense of whether the overall market is more risk on or risk off but that is relatively a small part of what I do.

I know of some prop traders who trade large intraday positions and trade a few different instruments simultaneously, paying a lot of attention to correlations and inverse correlations particularly around geopolitical events. I personally just structure trades based on where the market is in the spectrum between extreme trend and extreme trading range and adapt to the market conditions rather than looking for very specific setups or events. There's plenty of opportunities right in the ES and MES throughout the session so I don't look at other things. I make my decisions based on market generated information and want to minimize potential distractions as much as possible. If I were looking to hold for longer periods of time then I'd diversify to a greater extent (probably emphasizing equities and ETFs over futures for overnight positions), likely incorporate some fundamental analysis, and apply hedging strategies when appropriate.

Please excuse my ignorance as this is my first day here and I'm only about two weeks into seriously studying futures (ES specifically), but why trade ES and MES? Is there a reason beyond the contract costs that I'm not aware of? Thank you!

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Trentatron for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #41 (permalink)
NondualTrader
Rochester, NY
 
 
Posts: 8 since Aug 2020
Thanks: 5 given, 10 received


Trentatron View Post
Please excuse my ignorance as this is my first day here and I'm only about two weeks into seriously studying futures (ES specifically), but why trade ES and MES? Is there a reason beyond the contract costs that I'm not aware of? Thank you!

No problem, my main reason for trading both is that it gives me better ability to manage risk. If the market becomes very volatile and my stop would have to be farther away than usual I trade smaller positions and go for wider targets. I donít trade them simultaneously, I go between the two based on market conditions. Thereís plenty of opportunities every day to structure reasonable trades so I donít pay attention to other instruments aside from the occasional glances at my quote board to get a birdís eye view of how the market as a whole is trading. I use different strategies based on the market structure rather than scanning between multiple instruments for particular setups. Both ways can be profitable approaches, this is just how I prefer to trade.

Edit: If you're just getting into futures trading, I highly recommend spending at least a few months in SIM before trading the MES live and then building to trading the ES. MES is much less expensive to learn on than the ES.

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to NondualTrader for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #42 (permalink)
toucan94506bm
danville ca usa
 
 
Posts: 18 since Aug 2015
Thanks: 1 given, 30 received


NondualTrader View Post
No problem, my main reason for trading both is that it gives me better ability to manage risk. If the market becomes very volatile and my stop would have to be farther away than usual I trade smaller positions and go for wider targets. I donít trade them simultaneously, I go between the two based on market conditions. Thereís plenty of opportunities every day to structure reasonable trades so I donít pay attention to other instruments aside from the occasional glances at my quote board to get a birdís eye view of how the market as a whole is trading. I use different strategies based on the market structure rather than scanning between multiple instruments for particular setups. Both ways can be profitable approaches, this is just how I prefer to trade.

Edit: If you're just getting into futures trading, I highly recommend spending at least a few months in SIM before trading the MES live and then building to trading the ES. MES is much less expensive to learn on than the ES.

good to see someone else that uses micros vs minis to manage intitial stoploss risk.

cheers
toucan

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to toucan94506bm for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #43 (permalink)
Trentatron
Knoxville
 
 
Posts: 19 since Mar 2021
Thanks: 30 given, 12 received


NondualTrader View Post
No problem, my main reason for trading both is that it gives me better ability to manage risk. If the market becomes very volatile and my stop would have to be farther away than usual I trade smaller positions and go for wider targets. I donít trade them simultaneously, I go between the two based on market conditions. Thereís plenty of opportunities every day to structure reasonable trades so I donít pay attention to other instruments aside from the occasional glances at my quote board to get a birdís eye view of how the market as a whole is trading. I use different strategies based on the market structure rather than scanning between multiple instruments for particular setups. Both ways can be profitable approaches, this is just how I prefer to trade.

Edit: If you're just getting into futures trading, I highly recommend spending at least a few months in SIM before trading the MES live and then building to trading the ES. MES is much less expensive to learn on than the ES.

Thank you for the solid explanation, that makes perfect sense.

In regards to trading in a sim, that's exactly the plan. I have been doing a little sim trading just to get more exposure to charts and the overall movements of the MES/ES while sourcing quality material to study. I've got about $2,500 in my TD account that I have come to terms with being "tuition" if I blow it up, but I'll start with the micro's to hopefully keep "tuition" costs down.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #44 (permalink)
 FastNCurious 
saint louis MO
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TradeStation
Trading: NQ, ES, YM, CL, GC
 
FastNCurious's Avatar
 
Posts: 116 since Oct 2017
Thanks: 75 given, 125 received


Trentatron View Post
Please excuse my ignorance as this is my first day here and I'm only about two weeks into seriously studying futures (ES specifically), but why trade ES and MES? Is there a reason beyond the contract costs that I'm not aware of? Thank you!

I personally trade both because I like to trade multiple strategies on the same market and sometimes for simplicity I keep it separate by trading different contracts like this. But Iím sure there may be other reasons as well.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to FastNCurious for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #45 (permalink)
NondualTrader
Rochester, NY
 
 
Posts: 8 since Aug 2020
Thanks: 5 given, 10 received


Trentatron View Post
Thank you for the solid explanation, that makes perfect sense.

In regards to trading in a sim, that's exactly the plan. I have been doing a little sim trading just to get more exposure to charts and the overall movements of the MES/ES while sourcing quality material to study. I've got about $2,500 in my TD account that I have come to terms with being "tuition" if I blow it up, but I'll start with the micro's to hopefully keep "tuition" costs down.

Glad it helps! Take your time in SIM, get confident with your methods before starting to trade live (capital preservation is key!). It took longer to get good at trading than I anticipated but it was well worth spending a lot of time experimenting and gaining experience before going live. There's three major skills in trading: 1. market analysis. 2. trade management. 3. mental management. The first two can and, in my view, should be developed in SIM. Mental management (trading psychology) is better developed in the live market.

By the way, I'm not sure if it's still the case but TD's commissions for futures are very high and last I saw their commissions for micros are as expensive as the commissions for regular contracts.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to NondualTrader for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #46 (permalink)
 Massive l 
Legendary Market Wizard
Portland, OR
 
Experience: None
 
Massive l's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,012 since Mar 2011
Thanks: 1,698 given, 4,191 received

When you're scalping, you can really only focus on one instrument. I prefer /NQ. If you play longer day trades or swing trades ( prefer currencies, energy, metals, indices) you can scan across multiple markets to exploit edge.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to Massive l for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #47 (permalink)
 FastNCurious 
saint louis MO
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TradeStation
Trading: NQ, ES, YM, CL, GC
 
FastNCurious's Avatar
 
Posts: 116 since Oct 2017
Thanks: 75 given, 125 received

Itís always best to start small and work your way up to bigger position size. I wish I would have done that in the beginning. I love that we have access to micros now so we as traders can custom fit position size with smaller portfolios. With a $2500 acct I would say that MES is perfect to get your feet wet. But keep in mind ... with that small of an account you are already using ~50% margin.

Nothing wrong with that but I would prefer a higher starting balance to achieve more diversification.

After blowing up several accts with discretionary trading I finally switched to algo trading and ever since I have never looked back.

Often I think about trading setups and trying to take a few discretionary trades but the mental game is not for me.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to FastNCurious for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #48 (permalink)
Trentatron
Knoxville
 
 
Posts: 19 since Mar 2021
Thanks: 30 given, 12 received


FastNCurious View Post
Itís always best to start small and work your way up to bigger position size. I wish I would have done that in the beginning. I love that we have access to micros now so we as traders can custom fit position size with smaller portfolios. With a $2500 acct I would say that MES is perfect to get your feet wet. But keep in mind ... with that small of an account you are already using ~50% margin.

Nothing wrong with that but I would prefer a higher starting balance to achieve more diversification.

After blowing up several accts with discretionary trading I finally switched to algo trading and ever since I have never looked back.

Often I think about trading setups and trying to take a few discretionary trades but the mental game is not for me.

When you say "achieve more diversification" are you referring to being able to trade other futures that have a higher margin requirement?

Learning about the markets, trading strategies, charts, risk management, etc. etc. etc. has been like drinking out of a firehose, but I've been very curious about algo trading I just haven't made it that far in my research.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #49 (permalink)
Trentatron
Knoxville
 
 
Posts: 19 since Mar 2021
Thanks: 30 given, 12 received


NondualTrader View Post
By the way, I'm not sure if it's still the case but TD's commissions for futures are very high and last I saw their commissions for micros are as expensive as the commissions for regular contracts.

I didn't know much about futures and wasn't even aware mini's existed when I opened my TD account, it just seemed to be a very popular and capable platform, so I went with them.

I know this is a loaded question, but....since I've shifted my focus away from trading equities and I'm strictly studying futures are there more popular platforms/brokers for beginners I should consider?

If so, I'd like to at least be using their sim account to reduce the learning curve when I switch to live trading.

Thank you again!

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #50 (permalink)
NondualTrader
Rochester, NY
 
 
Posts: 8 since Aug 2020
Thanks: 5 given, 10 received


Trentatron View Post
I didn't know much about futures and wasn't even aware mini's existed when I opened my TD account, it just seemed to be a very popular and capable platform, so I went with them.

I know this is a loaded question, but....since I've shifted my focus away from trading equities and I'm strictly studying futures are there more popular platforms/brokers for beginners I should consider?

If so, I'd like to at least be using their sim account to reduce the learning curve when I switch to live trading.

Thank you again!

I started with equities and was also on ThinkorSwim. Once I switched to futures, I moved to Interactive Brokers and use Sierra Chart as my front-end platform. That combination fits my needs well. The broker and platform that you wind up choosing depends a lot on your preferences and you'll figure out what sorts of tools are important to you and what sorts of things don't matter as much as you go along and figure out your method of trading. Your style of trading will make an impact on who you choose as a broker and what you use for your platform.

There's plenty of good brokers out there. I went about choosing by looking at CFTC financial data to find an FCM that I wanted to clear through. Some FCMs also provide brokerage services (Interactive Brokers, TD Ameritrade, Tradestation, Advantage Futures, AMP, etc.) while others provide clearing but generally work through introducing brokers (Dorman, Phillips Capital, ADM Investor Services, Wedbush, etc. which would work with introducing brokers like Optimus Futures, Tradovate, EdgeClear, Ninjatrader, and so on). With the CFTC data I looked at the adjusted net capital and net capital requirements and decided to go with a large firm that has a comparatively small net capital requirement.

I'd recommend spending time researching various options, associated costs, platform features, to pick something that works well for you. In terms of costs pay attention to all inclusive rates per round turn (commission, exchange and NFA, routing, and clearing fee) as well as costs for the platform (monthly cost vs. buying software - which I don't recommend doing early on), monthly exchange fees, and data costs. I know it sounds like an overwhelming number of moving parts, I felt that way too when I started, but it make sense once you dig into it a bit. You can always switch in the future if your needs change, but these are the main things to consider when choosing.

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to NondualTrader for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #51 (permalink)
Trentatron
Knoxville
 
 
Posts: 19 since Mar 2021
Thanks: 30 given, 12 received


NondualTrader View Post
I started with equities and was also on ThinkorSwim. Once I switched to futures, I moved to Interactive Brokers and use Sierra Chart as my front-end platform. That combination fits my needs well. The broker and platform that you wind up choosing depends a lot on your preferences and you'll figure out what sorts of tools are important to you and what sorts of things don't matter as much as you go along and figure out your method of trading. Your style of trading will make an impact on who you choose as a broker and what you use for your platform.

There's plenty of good brokers out there. I went about choosing by looking at CFTC financial data to find an FCM that I wanted to clear through. Some FCMs also provide brokerage services (Interactive Brokers, TD Ameritrade, Tradestation, Advantage Futures, AMP, etc.) while others provide clearing but generally work through introducing brokers (Dorman, Phillips Capital, ADM Investor Services, Wedbush, etc. which would work with introducing brokers like Optimus Futures, Tradovate, EdgeClear, Ninjatrader, and so on). With the CFTC data I looked at the adjusted net capital and net capital requirements and decided to go with a large firm that has a comparatively small net capital requirement.

I'd recommend spending time researching various options, associated costs, platform features, to pick something that works well for you. In terms of costs pay attention to all inclusive rates per round turn (commission, exchange and NFA, routing, and clearing fee) as well as costs for the platform (monthly cost vs. buying software - which I don't recommend doing early on), monthly exchange fees, and data costs. I know it sounds like an overwhelming number of moving parts, I felt that way too when I started, but it make sense once you dig into it a bit. You can always switch in the future if your needs change, but these are the main things to consider when choosing.

I've done a little of that research today while at work between clients. Right now Interactive Brokers is looking pretty good, but I clearly have more research to do. Thank you!!

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #52 (permalink)
redbarntrades
Kalispell=Mt./USA
 
 
Posts: 79 since Sep 2019
Thanks: 174 given, 194 received


Trentatron View Post
I've done a little of that research today while at work between clients. Right now Interactive Brokers is looking pretty good, but I clearly have more research to do. Thank you!!


Greetings, in case you are interested, here is a link to Ninjatrader's commission chart.

https://ninjatrader.com/PDF/ninjatrader_futures_commissions.pdf

Round trip for a lifetime license for MES is $1.02
Round trip for Free license for MES is $1.54

The free platform is missing a few features. But you can get you feet wet without purchasing a 1k platform.

If you open an account there with $400.00 min. and utilized the free license, you would get the benefit of the Simulator(s). (Please check with NT for the latest offers/policies)

Others can explain the benefits of Sierra etc.

If I am reading IB's fixed rate chart, then their rate for MES is $3.00 round trip. If this is incorrect, someone may be able to clarify.

Both my wife and I are happy with NT.

There is a large community built around NT. They have an app share.

All this features can keep you busy for years.

Best regards in your new pursuit!

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to redbarntrades for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #53 (permalink)
 anubis 
Montevideo Uruguay
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: motivewave
Trading: futures
 
Posts: 29 since Jul 2020
Thanks: 11 given, 16 received

In my view:

Daytrading: just a few
Bigger timeframes: doesn't matter that much


redbarntrades View Post
Greetings, in case you are interested, here is a link to Ninjatrader's commission chart.

https://ninjatrader.com/PDF/ninjatrader_futures_commissions.pdf

Round trip for a lifetime license for MES is $1.02
Round trip for Free license for MES is $1.54

The free platform is missing a few features. But you can get you feet wet without purchasing a 1k platform.

If you open an account there with $400.00 min. and utilized the free license, you would get the benefit of the Simulator(s). (Please check with NT for the latest offers/policies)

Others can explain the benefits of Sierra etc.

If I am reading IB's fixed rate chart, then their rate for MES is $3.00 round trip. If this is incorrect, someone may be able to clarify.

Both my wife and I are happy with NT.

There is a large community built around NT. They have an app share.

All this features can keep you busy for years.

Best regards in your new pursuit!

0.84 the roundturn on AMP for the MES, And I thought it was expensive.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #54 (permalink)
redbarntrades
Kalispell=Mt./USA
 
 
Posts: 79 since Sep 2019
Thanks: 174 given, 194 received


anubis View Post
In my view:

Daytrading: just a few
Bigger timeframes: doesn't matter that much



0.84 the roundturn on AMP for the MES, And I thought it was expensive.

Unfortunately, the price just recently increased from .82cents.

Even though there is a higher premium to be paid, the flexibility for averaging out trades make it easier to make profits. The CME knows this, that's why it costs over double for 10 micros vs. 1 emini contract commissions.

When a person has a strategy that utilizes micros, the higher commission rate doesn't make any difference.

To some it would. To me it doesn't.

I don't care if I pay $200.00 a day in commissions as long as I have made 9 times that amount in profits. If I can keep my commission rate below 10%, it's a great day!

It's just a numbers game.

In the end, the commission percentage of my profit is just a reflection of how well I have traded that day.

I would have considered AMP, but I already have Ninjatrader platform.

I want to make money and I want to make money for Ninjatrader.

Hey Anubis, thanks for the great comment about the gaming mode for TV's. I tried it on my 4k tv, but don't have a game mode.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to redbarntrades for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #55 (permalink)
Trentatron
Knoxville
 
 
Posts: 19 since Mar 2021
Thanks: 30 given, 12 received


redbarntrades View Post
Unfortunately, the price just recently increased from .82cents.

Even though there is a higher premium to be paid, the flexibility for averaging out trades make it easier to make profits. The CME knows this, that's why it costs over double for 10 micros vs. 1 emini contract commissions.

When a person has a strategy that utilizes micros, the higher commission rate doesn't make any difference.

I've been pretty curious about fees with micros because it seems like they would eat up profits pretty quickly. The micros as 1/10th the cost but the fees are only 1/3 compared to the minis. Do you mind expanding on how fees with micros can be offset or managed?

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #56 (permalink)
redbarntrades
Kalispell=Mt./USA
 
 
Posts: 79 since Sep 2019
Thanks: 174 given, 194 received


Trentatron View Post
I've been pretty curious about fees with micros because it seems like they would eat up profits pretty quickly. The micros as 1/10th the cost but the fees are only 1/3 compared to the minis. Do you mind expanding on how fees with micros can be offset or managed?

Howdy, I will get back to you as we are going out for a drive to get out of the house. Thanks for the question!

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to redbarntrades for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #57 (permalink)
redbarntrades
Kalispell=Mt./USA
 
 
Posts: 79 since Sep 2019
Thanks: 174 given, 194 received


Trentatron View Post
I've been pretty curious about fees with micros because it seems like they would eat up profits pretty quickly. The micros as 1/10th the cost but the fees are only 1/3 compared to the minis. Do you mind expanding on how fees with micros can be offset or managed?

Greetings! I may not answer your question the way you might need me to, but can endeavor to shed some light on different aspects.

This is a given with a licensed NT platform:
MNQ/MES Round Trip=$1.02
NQ/ES Round Trip-$3.98
Micros cost 2.5 time more to trade.

The question really comes down to: What is the strategy and what is the risk?

You can apply the same strategy using 2 micro contracts that you would use with 2 emini's as you learn. But you will pay 2.5 times the commission rate for the privilege of doing so. When your account grows, you can step up to the emini's.

That is the basic methodology of many many traders. That's great for them.

If you develop a strategy that utilizes micros, who cares that you paid a little more for the privilege of utilizing them?

For instance, I never trade with a predetermined stop and TP. I let the market tell me what is likely and or probable and where I should place those stops. If I pull the trigger with one micro and it gives me 10 points, then I will take it. $20.00-$1.20=$18.80. What's wrong with that? That's about a 6% fee for making that $18.00.

Let's say that I entered a trade with 1 MNQ and it goes against me for 6 points and I believe there is still reason to stay in the position and I firmly believe by my analysis that it will spring back and then I add 1 more. Then as it is moving in my favor and I see a good run, I add 2 more. Without laying out all of the math, let's just say it moves 8 points from my original position and I close. I now get approx. 27 points of gain. 27x 2=$54.00-$4.08=$49.92. Nothing wrong with that.

It's not a common strategy as in 2 contracts with a 10point SL/TP. This allows you flexibility in your approach to movement. As is any strategy out there, many of us average minded traders have to do a lot of practice til we are comfortable with what we are doing. And for me, it took a number of years.

In regards to the commissions, I believe they are dirt cheap. If I can trade really well and make money, I don't care if I give the broker 5% or 10% or 20% of my take. When I was in the building business, I had to invest multiples of $10,000 in tools and equipment just to go to work.

Again, as I said before, the percentage of commissions vs. my Gross for the day gives me an indication if I am trading well or not so well. Where I traded poorly etc. etc.

To me trading is like pouring a concrete slab (which I poured many over the last 40 years). You place the mud, screed it off and then float it. Then...OOh! There's a little dip which need a little more mud. Throw some in and smooth it out.

You have to know when and where to do the smoothing. In trading, maybe that one contract is now in a place where smoothing will make no difference but make things worse. Take the loss before making things worse. If you take the loss, then look to see why you misread your entry. When I have "messed" up, it was due the the fact that I needed to learn something from that trade.

When I eliminate the stupid entries, more often than not, I am left with the good entries thereby decreasing my losses and increasing my wins.

All the above are just thoughts on my approach. They are unique to me as I have spent countless hours endeavoring to figure out the market when in reality, I need to figure out me and how my brain/mind can perceive value in the market place.

Commissions: I don't have a bias against my broker. He needs to be paid for his service. If I am paying too much in fees, that's my fault, then I need to get better.

For instance, if I can make $1000.00 in a day and I pay out $50-$150 in commissions...... So what? My goal is to trade is such a way that my commissions are 8% or less of my gross. That makes me very happy. That commission rate is my investment in my tools and is a cost of doing business.

I hope this does not come across as condescending. But, I do not know of your personal experience and maybe it's just food for thought for you or whoever.

Maybe just something for someone to print out and use for a dart board!:

Reply With Quote
The following 8 users say Thank You to redbarntrades for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #58 (permalink)
Trentatron
Knoxville
 
 
Posts: 19 since Mar 2021
Thanks: 30 given, 12 received


redbarntrades View Post
Greetings! I may not answer your question the way you might need me to, but can endeavor to shed some light on different aspects.

This is a given with a licensed NT platform:
MNQ/MES Round Trip=$1.02
NQ/ES Round Trip-$3.98
Micros cost 2.5 time more to trade.

The question really comes down to: What is the strategy and what is the risk?

You can apply the same strategy using 2 micro contracts that you would use with 2 emini's as you learn. But you will pay 2.5 times the commission rate for the privilege of doing so. When your account grows, you can step up to the emini's.

That is the basic methodology of many many traders. That's great for them.

If you develop a strategy that utilizes micros, who cares that you paid a little more for the privilege of utilizing them?

For instance, I never trade with a predetermined stop and TP. I let the market tell me what is likely and or probable and where I should place those stops. If I pull the trigger with one micro and it gives me 10 points, then I will take it. $20.00-$1.20=$18.80. What's wrong with that? That's about a 6% fee for making that $18.00.

Let's say that I entered a trade with 1 MNQ and it goes against me for 6 points and I believe there is still reason to stay in the position and I firmly believe by my analysis that it will spring back and then I add 1 more. Then as it is moving in my favor and I see a good run, I add 2 more. Without laying out all of the math, let's just say it moves 8 points from my original position and I close. I now get approx. 27 points of gain. 27x 2=$54.00-$4.08=$49.92. Nothing wrong with that.

It's not a common strategy as in 2 contracts with a 10point SL/TP. This allows you flexibility in your approach to movement. As is any strategy out there, many of us average minded traders have to do a lot of practice til we are comfortable with what we are doing. And for me, it took a number of years.

In regards to the commissions, I believe they are dirt cheap. If I can trade really well and make money, I don't care if I give the broker 5% or 10% or 20% of my take. When I was in the building business, I had to invest multiples of $10,000 in tools and equipment just to go to work.

Again, as I said before, the percentage of commissions vs. my Gross for the day gives me an indication if I am trading well or not so well. Where I traded poorly etc. etc.

To me trading is like pouring a concrete slab (which I poured many over the last 40 years). You place the mud, screed it off and then float it. Then...OOh! There's a little dip which need a little more mud. Throw some in and smooth it out.

You have to know when and where to do the smoothing. In trading, maybe that one contract is now in a place where smoothing will make no difference but make things worse. Take the loss before making things worse. If you take the loss, then look to see why you misread your entry. When I have "messed" up, it was due the the fact that I needed to learn something from that trade.

When I eliminate the stupid entries, more often than not, I am left with the good entries thereby decreasing my losses and increasing my wins.

All the above are just thoughts on my approach. They are unique to me as I have spent countless hours endeavoring to figure out the market when in reality, I need to figure out me and how my brain/mind can perceive value in the market place.

Commissions: I don't have a bias against my broker. He needs to be paid for his service. If I am paying too much in fees, that's my fault, then I need to get better.

For instance, if I can make $1000.00 in a day and I pay out $50-$150 in commissions...... So what? My goal is to trade is such a way that my commissions are 8% or less of my gross. That makes me very happy. That commission rate is my investment in my tools and is a cost of doing business.

I hope this does not come across as condescending. But, I do not know of your personal experience and maybe it's just food for thought for you or whoever.

Maybe just something for someone to print out and use for a dart board!:

Wow, thanks for laying that out so well! I think since I've mostly been studying the 1 point scalp my perspective was pretty binary, one point gain or two points lost. Profiting only one point at a time makes it hard to see how you could average your commissions down, but thinking in terms of even 5+ points certainly gives me a different perspective on the commissions.

I still have a lot to learn and my own trading style to find.

Thanks again!

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #59 (permalink)
redbarntrades
Kalispell=Mt./USA
 
 
Posts: 79 since Sep 2019
Thanks: 174 given, 194 received


Trentatron View Post
Wow, thanks for laying that out so well! I think since I've mostly been studying the 1 point scalp my perspective was pretty binary, one point gain or two points lost. Profiting only one point at a time makes it hard to see how you could average your commissions down, but thinking in terms of even 5+ points certainly gives me a different perspective on the commissions.

I still have a lot to learn and my own trading style to find.

Thanks again!

You're welcome! If you are trading the MES, you might find "Responsible Day Trading" and "Al Brooks" stimulating. I could not trade like Ms. Duff on Responsible D.T. but there is always something to be gleaned from another trader. Al Brooks brings a lot of value regarding price action and what is possible in just a 5 minute candle. He states that there are an average of 40 trades possible in every N.Y. session.

Of course price action is only one part of this trade. Probabilities, Risk (and where you put it on), Psychology, Money Management, Account size and Volatility are just a few of the other factors involved in this pursuit. Understanding your own talent, your own mind and your own fortitude will keep you reaching for your goal.

For me, it's been a long hard journey. My motto has always been "I'll get this if it kills me". Must be from my German/Norwegian heritage.

This journey reminds me of when I went hunting decades ago. Up the mountain I went through the snow and brush. I thought the top of the mountain was just in sight. Surely the deer will be up there. When I got to the top, I discovered no deer and then another mountain still above. Up I went. Surely, this next hill will be the top. Nope, yet another hill to climb. Eventually, I got up to the top and could move around more freely and scope out the deer. Pretty much the same with trading. Lots of mountains to climb.

That's my story. Of course if you are genius level, you won't have so many mountains to climb. I hope it's that way for you!

Best wishes and enjoy your weekend!

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to redbarntrades for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #60 (permalink)
Trentatron
Knoxville
 
 
Posts: 19 since Mar 2021
Thanks: 30 given, 12 received


redbarntrades View Post
You're welcome! If you are trading the MES, you might find "Responsible Day Trading" and "Al Brooks" stimulating. I could not trade like Ms. Duff on Responsible D.T. but there is always something to be gleaned from another trader. Al Brooks brings a lot of value regarding price action and what is possible in just a 5 minute candle. He states that there are an average of 40 trades possible in every N.Y. session.

Of course price action is only one part of this trade. Probabilities, Risk (and where you put it on), Psychology, Money Management, Account size and Volatility are just a few of the other factors involved in this pursuit. Understanding your own talent, your own mind and your own fortitude will keep you reaching for your goal.

For me, it's been a long hard journey. My motto has always been "I'll get this if it kills me". Must be from my German/Norwegian heritage.

This journey reminds me of when I went hunting decades ago. Up the mountain I went through the snow and brush. I thought the top of the mountain was just in sight. Surely the deer will be up there. When I got to the top, I discovered no deer and then another mountain still above. Up I went. Surely, this next hill will be the top. Nope, yet another hill to climb. Eventually, I got up to the top and could move around more freely and scope out the deer. Pretty much the same with trading. Lots of mountains to climb.

That's my story. Of course if you are genius level, you won't have so many mountains to climb. I hope it's that way for you!

Best wishes and enjoy your weekend!

Thank you for the suggestions on Responsible DT and Al Brooks. Finding a solid and credible education has been an adventure in and of itself.

I'm currently working my way through Adam H. Grimes free course and then Al Brooks was next on my list.

I have also found "Trading in the Zone" to be very helpful as a new trader. It's given me the foundation to build the correct mindset but probably more importantly it's told me about the mental pitfalls and traps to NOT fall into.

My mission for right now is to keep it simple...basic rules, basic patterns, basic indicators (mostly just sma) and build from there. With such varying strategies, methods, rules, etc. I'm trying to focus on just the few things that everyone seems to agree on before I start injecting my own opinion and hypotheses.

Thank you again and have a great weekend yourself!

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Trentatron for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #61 (permalink)
redbarntrades
Kalispell=Mt./USA
 
 
Posts: 79 since Sep 2019
Thanks: 174 given, 194 received


Trentatron View Post
Thank you for the suggestions on Responsible DT and Al Brooks. Finding a solid and credible education has been an adventure in and of itself.

I'm currently working my way through Adam H. Grimes free course and then Al Brooks was next on my list.

I have also found "Trading in the Zone" to be very helpful as a new trader. It's given me the foundation to build the correct mindset but probably more importantly it's told me about the mental pitfalls and traps to NOT fall into.

My mission for right now is to keep it simple...basic rules, basic patterns, basic indicators (mostly just sma) and build from there. With such varying strategies, methods, rules, etc. I'm trying to focus on just the few things that everyone seems to agree on before I start injecting my own opinion and hypotheses.

Thank you again and have a great weekend yourself!

I will check out A. Grimes. New one to me. Of course Mark Douglas is fantastic. Morad at Futures71 too.

On early Sat. morning, I like watching historical videos of anyone who is doing a live trade using NT8. I learn as much from what I believe they are doing wrong (in my view) as from what they are doing right.

In regards to indicators, I have used a hundred different one. Oh man, the list! I finally ended up with one MA and one simple oscillator to help view weakness, strength and divergence. Pretty simple chart.

Sounds like you have a good plan!

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to redbarntrades for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #62 (permalink)
Mozart2112
Minoqua Wi USA
 
 
Posts: 84 since Sep 2019
Thanks: 47 given, 47 received


TheTradingDojoMX View Post
Hi everyone! I would like to know if peofessional traders specialize in trading only one instrument or if they trade more than one. What is the wisest thing to do from a daytrading perspective. Cheers!

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

when it comes to futures and commodities trading I think it's best to learn the animal and what makes it tick... diversification is fine if you understand the instrument you're trading.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Mozart2112 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #63 (permalink)
 nothingbutprofits 
rochester new york/USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: ThinkOrSwim & NT
Broker: NT, TOS
Trading: ES NQ RTY CL NG
 
nothingbutprofits's Avatar
 
Posts: 17 since Feb 2021
Thanks: 63 given, 3 received


redbarntrades View Post
In regards to indicators, I have used a hundred different one. Oh man, the list! I finally ended up with one MA and one simple oscillator to help view weakness, strength and divergence. Pretty simple chart.

Can you post the screenshot of your NT screen - to give us the idea?

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #64 (permalink)
redbarntrades
Kalispell=Mt./USA
 
 
Posts: 79 since Sep 2019
Thanks: 174 given, 194 received


nothingbutprofits View Post
Can you post the screenshot of your NT screen - to give us the idea?

Here you go.

3 minute chart
2 period Zlema (smoothing (5), bar colors: Disabled. This Zlema is set to 12 minute via input series. This Zlema is a free indicator by ninZa.co and is called Moving Median.
3 period Fisher Histogram Wave (found in indicators @ FuturesIO).
I changed the settings to get what you see on the chart. It is set to 10/8. Background removed.
Also the background colors in panel one are the Fisher H. Wave. This indie is set to 12 minutes via input series. Hid all of the lines. Changed the colors. Set it to 11/4 and then clicked and dragged it up to panel one.

The background colors remind me to trade in the direction of the longer term (12 minute chart).

These suit me as most of my trades are just minutes long.

Basic thinking for scalping is playing the "Color Game".

Longs:
Green background
Green candles
Green Fisher

Shorts: Visa versa

I keep the chart marked off at every $50.00. These levels often provide S/R or if they are violated, then I look for a continuation.

Of course all of this is subject to:

Price action, pivots, S/R's, news, divergence, position of Fisher H. Wave, etc. etc.

If the median is flat and price moves far away and hits S/R, I will take a counter trend trade.

Like anything other indicator, they are subject to my ability to read and understand what they mean and when.

The other horizontal line shown are nothing more than NT8's "Prior Day OHLC". I don't consider them an indicator.

I have gone around and around endeavoring to simplify my charts over the last years. This is the best that I can come up with for finding a reason to take a trade.

I hope you find some value.

Reply With Quote
The following 7 users say Thank You to redbarntrades for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #65 (permalink)
 Tiffsgreta 
Kanab utah/usa
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Zaner 360
Broker: IB, DeCarley Trading
Trading: ES, Options
 
Tiffsgreta's Avatar
 
Posts: 41 since Nov 2018
Thanks: 259 given, 25 received


redbarntrades View Post
Here you go.

3 minute chart
2 period Zlema (smoothing (5), bar colors: Disabled. This Zlema is set to 12 minute via input series. This Zlema is a free indicator by ninZa.co and is called Moving Median.
3 period Fisher Histogram Wave (found in indicators @ FuturesIO).
I changed the settings to get what you see on the chart. It is set to 10/8. Background removed.
Also the background colors in panel one are the Fisher H. Wave. This indie is set to 12 minutes via input series. Hid all of the lines. Changed the colors. Set it to 11/4 and then clicked and dragged it up to panel one.

The background colors remind me to trade in the direction of the longer term (12 minute chart).

These suit me as most of my trades are just minutes long.

Basic thinking for scalping is playing the "Color Game".

Longs:
Green background
Green candles
Green Fisher

Shorts: Visa versa

I keep the chart marked off at every $50.00. These levels often provide S/R or if they are violated, then I look for a continuation.

Of course all of this is subject to:

Price action, pivots, S/R's, news, divergence, position of Fisher H. Wave, etc. etc.

Need it be said? Your chart is absolutely beautiful, and worth all the work. I wish to have something like it some day

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Tiffsgreta for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #66 (permalink)
redbarntrades
Kalispell=Mt./USA
 
 
Posts: 79 since Sep 2019
Thanks: 174 given, 194 received


Tiffsgreta View Post
Need it be said? Your chart is absolutely beautiful, and worth all the work. I wish to have something like it some day

Thank you! You are very kind!

I'm sure you will produce the charts that will suit how your brain works. Every type of MA tells a story. Every oscillator/indicator tells a story. For me, I have learned that if I choose to use one, that I have to learn what its usefulness is. It's benefits and its drawbacks.

Best regards in you endeavors!

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to redbarntrades for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #67 (permalink)
redbarntrades
Kalispell=Mt./USA
 
 
Posts: 79 since Sep 2019
Thanks: 174 given, 194 received


bitgooods View Post
Interesting. I have not much experience in this. Is there any possibility to talk via messengers ?

Greetings!

I believe you can send me a private message via this site. I don't have messenger anymore on this PC.

It must be around midnight Sydney time. I am off shortly to the dentist. So any communication would have to happen later in the day my time.

Whatever I know about PC's is what I have picked up along the way as I started with on older PC and over time upgraded it then as it could not handle the NQ data fast enough, I built a new stand alone PC which I had assembled by a gaming company.

I will check back in later,

Cheers!

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #68 (permalink)
 DanDaMan 
Montreal Quebec
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Sierra Chart, NinjaTrader
Trading: ES
 
DanDaMan's Avatar
 
Posts: 34 since May 2020
Thanks: 56 given, 29 received

@redbarntrades

Great idea to have a gaming company setup your new rig. Gamers always have the best kit!


redbarntrades View Post
Greetings!

I believe you can send me a private message via this site. I don't have messenger anymore on this PC.

It must be around midnight Sydney time. I am off shortly to the dentist. So any communication would have to happen later in the day my time.

Whatever I know about PC's is what I have picked up along the way as I started with on older PC and over time upgraded it then as it could not handle the NQ data fast enough, I built a new stand alone PC which I had assembled by a gaming company.

I will check back in later,

Cheers!


Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to DanDaMan for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #69 (permalink)
redbarntrades
Kalispell=Mt./USA
 
 
Posts: 79 since Sep 2019
Thanks: 174 given, 194 received


DanDaMan View Post
@redbarntrades

Great idea to have a gaming company setup your new rig. Gamers always have the best kit!

Hi!

I searched high and low for a PC supplier. Trading PC's and Gaming PC's. After countless hours of research and building mock PC's online and then pricing out the parts, I decided on Magic Micro Computers. They have a large menu. A great website and good prices.

You can view my build on the "Show us your Battlestations" on this site.

If I ever do another build, I will upgrade the CPU from my current fast Ryzen 5 3600x to a CPU that is even faster. But very pleased with the current performance.

Cheers!

Reply With Quote


futures io Trading Community Traders Hideout > Specialize in trading only one instrument


Last Updated on April 8, 2021


Upcoming Webinars and Events
 

NinjaTrader Indicator Challenge!

Ongoing
 

Journal Challenge w/$1,800 in prizes!

April
     



Copyright © 2021 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts