I'm a little freaked out right now, so I'll see if I can write coherently...bare with me.
Yesterday morning when I finished my session I was flat. I had closed all my trades and my platform had said I was flat. However...Last night, after my statement had arrived by email, my platform changed from being flat, to being short 3 gold contracts and down a bunch of money. I freaked out and hit the close button on my platform. I called the support desk and told them my issue. They said that they were having problems with their statements and that the statements and positions were erroneous. They also said that if I went home flat yesterday, I should assume I was flat.
BUT I told him I had entered an order for 3 long contracts in order to get flat after seeing my platform and my statement state that I was short 3 contracts. They said they didn't know for sure, but I was probably now net long, even though my platform now said I was flat.
So, after looking at my trade log on my platform, I determined that I WAS flat at the end of yesterday's session and that my trade log now looked like I was long 3 contracts. So I closed out those long contracts, but now my platform says I'm short 3 contracts, even though my trade log reflects that I am now flat.
What a nightmare!
I spoke with the E-trade desk again this morning and they reassured me that If I went home flat yesterday, then I was flat, despite my statement saying I was short 3 contracts. They also said that they had an issue with their order routing software yesterday and they may need to get the exchange involved. I'm not sure what their situation is exactly. I sent them an email hoping someone can explain it to me in writing. At this point I'm unsure if I have an open position, and I'm a little freaked out and don't know what else to do. Any advice would be appreciated.
The following 6 users say Thank You to Salao for this post:
Yikes, sorry to hear of all this. Is there any reason why you might have been short 3 Gold contracts? If there was not, then in cases like this you should have just ignored it.
But the 3 long should be real, and the 3 closing out should be real, so you should be flat.
I would call the Trade Desk and ask to talk to a supervisor.
The following 6 users say Thank You to kevinkdog for this post:
Make sure to keep and record everything about this. Logs, calls, mails, everything. Take screenshots from your platform, cover your *ss and get those statements downloaded cause you don't know what they will do with data on their end.
Send a mail that regardless of what your position is, your desire since yesterday was and is to be flat and the particular limit price.
Thanks for help @kevinkdog. I can't think of any reason I might have been short 3 contracts. I had traded 1-lots earlier in the day, but had closed all those trades. And my platform had reflected that I had closed those trades.
Thanks @Pa Dax. I'm definitely trying to document everything. I should be flat, but my platform still reflects an open short for three contracts even though my trade logs reflect that I should be flat. Praying this doesn't get ugly.
I took a screenshot of my charts that reflect that I have closed all my positions, as well as my trade log, and I have printed out my statement from yesterday. This is a nightmare.
The following user says Thank You to Salao for this post:
They just said in an email that if my platform displays an erroneous position, to not offset it. They also said that they are hoping to get the issue resolved later this morning, so we'll see. The nightmare continues.
The following 2 users say Thank You to Salao for this post:
Is your underlying clearing firm Phillip Capital? If so they sent out this email yesterday:
So it may have been a Phillip Capital issue or an underlying network issue affecting other firms as well?
BTW, I am really liking Edge Clear w/ Phillip Capital, (despite the apparent system-outage yesterday which did not affect me). Just in case you are looking around for a broker
The following 4 users say Thank You to snax for this post:
Hey snax! OK yes it is phillip capital. I didn't receive that notice and I'm not sure why. Thanks for posting it. It helps calm my nerves a little...but I am looking forward to those updated statements.
Unheard of that you can't get a live status report of your actual positions from a trade desk. I believe that anything can fail including a platform and everything but to not be able to know if you're in the market right now at this moment or not is just outrageous.
... this happened to me years ago with Silver. Almost the exact same situation (I had 5 contracts in dispute). It went to COMEX arbitration, in the end I lost.
Net, net: go by your screens, logs etc. Not what they tell you. Document everything. Good Luck.
The following user says Thank You to tehuff for this post:
I would call the trade desk and will ask them to check what are my open positions and the unrealised P/L. In this way you know for sure where you stand and can make an informed decision.
You can always ask the trade desk to get you flat. They will record the call and will ask you confirmation of that. You may also record the phone call.. but notify them if you do this.
Hope this will help.
have a great weekend
Document everything, video record the screen and voice conversations with the broker, and start looking for an attorney. This is going to be a big lawsuit!
The following 3 users say Thank You to traderalex81 for this post:
This is a Phillip Capital issue, correct. I had the same exact thing happen to me and Ninja is my broker. I spoke with someone on their order desk who indicated Phillip had a system outage so people woke up with positions. I also woke up short ES 7 micros from 3755, double the size I am comfortable with and in a net 30 point loss. I quickly closed it out (near the ONH unfortunately) and then caught the short in ES from the overnight high (very happy), call Ninja and they tell me that the only thing my account reflects is that I am long 7 micro at 3882.25 (because I was short 7 micro at 3755 when I woke up, which I quickly closed out). The short trade I just made and was stoked about never happened. Pretty insane.
Unclear what happens next but they may write it up to "trading on bad information" which would leave the customer accounts liable from my understanding. It's $500 for me, I can live wit it, but it may be a lot more for others and that is just not right and pretty scary. I really hope that's not the case but TBD how this all plays out.
The following user says Thank You to SnakeTrades for this post:
Yes it is awful. I asked numerous times if I had a position open and nobody would tell me. All they would tell me was that if I thought the statement was in error, to not make an offsetting trade. And I told them numerous times that I want to be flat no matter what. I made sure to email that to them too.
Happened the same to me with Phillip Capital!
Last position ,yesterday, I closed a long so they recorded it as a short position.
Needless to say that this morning I freaked closed the position ( I was 2900 in negative ) and ended up being long.
I called immediately NT emergency desk and they explained to me of the Phillip outage.
Luckily I closed the long with a small profit while on the phone with support and the platform went back to normal, erasing the losses and recording the small profit .
They told me, for the future, that if I don't recognize a trade to leave it as it is and contact the help desk.
The following user says Thank You to lucama for this post:
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I'm the one that sent the newsletter
Unfortunately, Phillip Capital is no longer a site sponsor, so there isn't much I can do with it other than raise awareness.
If any of you experienced this via NinjaTrader Brokerage using Phillip as your FCM, then I encourage you to contact @NT Brokerage and make certain you are taken care of.
That's amazing. So you wake up, see that you suddenly seem to have a position on and you're not supposed to close it immediately because you don't recognize that trade?!?!
I turned on today and was up $2500 and thought I accidentally left a position open, but they would have kicked me out anyway.
So I flattened the positioned. And made a few more trades.
Still waiting on a response from NT.
The following user says Thank You to Arseno for this post:
Yeah, they told me that I was flat since yesterday and that I went long. It was 1 NQ contract and I took last trade yesterday around 11am EST and did not touch the platform after that. so it recorded that I was short @13450
If I didn't call the help desk I would have been long NQ @ 13594 all day (just now it would be a profitable position.
Broker: Primary Advantage Futures. Also ED&F and Tradestation
Trading: Primarily Energy but also a little GE, GC, SI & Bitcoin
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I guess they don't have an online portal where you can check your live position and margin requirement? Have 3 GC open overnight which you weren't expecting is $33k in margin - not sure whether that's significant or not to your account.
If you see some orders that you didn't put. Don't do anything. Call your broker.
One day I wake up and I knew that I didn't have any open positions, but I saw in the platform that I was long with a nice profit in OIL Futures. I closed the trade with a market order, but two hours later I saw in the same price a short. I was drawdown ended losing 10% of the account, because the market was long. I called the broker and they said that I entered short with a market order. sheszzzzz
The following user says Thank You to ikmetal for this post:
I had similar experience with Tradestation. I had closed my open position on MNQ right before NY close, but when I opened up the platform a few hours later (i.e. @ the open of next trading day) my daily P&L number kept changing and it looked like I still had a position open. In my case, the order execution history showed the quantity of my buy and sell orders for the day was equal, which indicated I should have been flat at the close. I took a screenshot of that order execution history, which gave me a bit of peace of mind. Later when I called support, their response was similar to what you got, and on the next day, my statement was fixed and showed I WAS flat at the close. However, it was a bummer that I incurred a small unnecessary loss on the new position I opened in order to get out of the position I didn't actually have open. I left Tradestation because of this.
Hope this helps!
The following user says Thank You to jjlee0709 for this post:
First, please let me have empathy for your situation, clearly it a place that no one wants to be in.
In this particular situation, as you said, the brokerage had confirmed that they have an error in their system that causes the mistake in your trade command you set up for your account. Let hope that has already been recorded.
Second, hope that you already have something similar to this in the system you use to trade
In my case, the long position that appeared open when I should have been flat was showing a profit - not huge, but sizeable for MES. My new sell order to close out of it was actually to lock in the profit there may have been by the broker's mistake. It was the sell order I placed that resulted in a loss as the market kept going higher. I almost yelled at the support guy when he said there's nothing they could do with that loss.
Either way, I agree luck seems to be against me most of the time in trading..
The following user says Thank You to jjlee0709 for this post:
Had a similar issue with by broker several months ago where trades were closed as a result of a new margin file that was added that had multiplied margin levels by a factor of 100 resulting in some clients positions being closed 🤣
In the above case, the positions were executed in the market and were not simply a reporting error. As such, the broker was forces to undo the trade at their expense as it was 100% their fault.
Anyway, lessons that I learnt:
Things to check before doing anything:
1 - Make sure the trades are real and showing up on your live system and not just a reporting error on your statement.
2 - If the trades appear to be live and are showing up on your live system, make sure you did not accidentally leave any open limit/stop orders.
Depending on your platform, the logs will show you what order type got you in to the trade.
3 - If you are certain you had no open orders and you have no idea as to how the trades could have been executed, then do nothing to flatten the open positions.
4 - Contact the support desk. They may well already be aware of the situation and advise you accordingly.
If they claim to know nothing, as long as you are 100% sure you had noting to do with the open positions, do nothing UNLESS explicitly told by the broker that as far as they are concerned, you have live open positions and you are responsible for them. In this case, take the details of the person you spoke to together with the date/time etc and then flatten the position. Then write an email stating you are querying how the positions came to be open as you believe you did not execute them and ask them to look in to it.
Follow up as per information received.
In your situation, whilst the orders you didn't recognize may have well have been an erroneous system issue, your decision to flatten the positions without first contacting support to to find out what the situation was could mean you are long the order you placed.
Depending on the broker, they could, out of goodwill, take any loss or they could say you are responsible as yo should have checked with them first if you had any doubts.
Tough one to call.
Good luck.
The following user says Thank You to Lfx987 for this post:
I've called the regular and emergency line 3 times and mailbox is full and it hangs up.
I got an email from NT and they said they didnt have access to my account balance, but
forwarded my email to orders to confirm I was flat. I also emailed order desk again.
I'll keep trying.
The following 2 users say Thank You to Arseno for this post:
Although I have seen issues using Power Etrade. I find that the information in the History menu is accurate and current. I find some orders in a fast moving market are not accurate, they will show pending or open when in fact they are filled. The history menu reflects the finished trade. I also find that if you close and reopen the Power Etrade it will be corrected. ALSO the Order Book allows you to filter out open, saved, filled, pending etc.. orders, make certain the open orders is checked. Otherwise I would call your platinum support team, although they will pass you through quickly to the futures desk (in the case of trading GC), they will rectify and confirm your uncertain situation, which it seems you did.
I also use IB/NT and TOS. They all have there share of issues.
Good Luck
The following user says Thank You to pugpack for this post:
Phillip Capital had me short M6B last night, though Tradovate said I was flat (as expected). PC confirmed there was an outage and I was instructed to ignore my statement and the Portal.
Yes your experience is pretty much a perfect parallel to what I'm dealing with. Phillip just emailed another statement from yesterday that shows all of the correct executions. And now my platform is displaying that I'm flat with, what appears to be, the correct balance. I phoned the trade desk and they were able to confirm that I am now flat. So it looks like all is good...maybe a little worse for the wear. Holy cow that was awful!
The following 5 users say Thank You to Salao for this post:
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Error trades are asymmetrical. When people get positive error trades they close it immediately and view it as a bank error in their favor. When it's a negative error they spend a lot more time trying to work out what happened, hesitate to take the loss hoping it comes back, or that its not their responsibility.
* Note this is not aimed at anybody in this conversation. This is just an explanation of why there are so few big positive errors but so many big negative errors.
The following 6 users say Thank You to SMCJB for this post:
I just received an updated account statement from Phillips that correctly matches what I had when I went to bed flat.
This morning, I saw I was short 7 micros of ES. This was incorrect, I was not in actuality short but was actually flat. But I did not know this then, so I bought 7 micros to cover. That was my first trade of the day which put me long 7 micros. I did some shorting and covering in the morning, 3 micros short, 3 micros covered. So my net position was 7 - 3 + 3 =7 long micro ES. I confirmed all of this with someone on the order desk at NinjaTrader and just received an updated activity statement from Phillip that correctly matches my account as of last night.
I sold 4 of the micros so am now net long. If I take my current realized and unrealized profit position and add it to the net balance on my statement from last night, it results in the net liquidity value on my computer screen Ninja platform. This is a good sign.
Bottom line: the first trade you made today to close out the erroneous position you saw when you woke up this morning was your first trade of the day. Work backwards from there with your following positions to get your net position.
The following 2 users say Thank You to SnakeTrades for this post:
Yes this is pretty much the exact procedure that I would use. I was long for a little while, but after talking with the trade desk and going over my trade execution log I had figured I was probably inadvertantly long. So I closed that order. It was a difficult spot because I had no idea for certain if I had a position on or not, and it seems like no one on the broker's side could tell me if I had a position on. I'm guessing they didn't know. But that's a guess and I really don't know why they couldn't tell me if I had a position on or not.
The following 3 users say Thank You to Salao for this post:
Personally, and just .02. Look into changing brokers. Some are far better than others and some are downright almost fraudulent (aka trade against you). We all likely can share our horror stories because heck you are not going to find those comments posted on the brokers sites...
Perhaps there is is a thread already open on this as to recommended brokers?
joeyZazaOG
The following user says Thank You to JoeyZaza for this post:
We want to help shed some light into what we BELIEVE happened today. We are still waiting for the full details, but since this is a topic now and some traders out there may be worried, we thought this could help.
As you all now know, there was an outage at Phillip Capital towards the end of the trading day yesterday (2/4), around 3:00 PM CST. This caused the statements to not properly upload the trades executed towards the end of the day. The result being incorrect open positions uploaded to the platform.
Platforms such as Rithmic and CQG use the statements as a way to create the SOD (start of day) position and P&L. Since there was an outage at Phillip, when the statements uploaded to the platform, it pulled in the incorrect open positions for some accounts. This caused incorrect positions on the platform.
Here is what Edge Clear did today that I believe helped our customers as much as possible.
Brokers arrived to the office early once the issue was known
An email was sent to all Edge Clear/Phillip Capital customers with notice that the positions may be incorrect
We discussed with Phillip what the root cause is.
Phillip sent us the entire fill log for all customers orders yesterday
We used the fill log and compared it with February 4th’s statement
Using February 3rd statement to confirm the EOD (end of day) position
If any customer we noticed to have incorrect position, we attempted to reach out to them and walk them through the orders
We plan on updating our customers throughout the day.
@Big_Mike and us are on the same page on pretty much everything relating to futures. However, we advise anyone who finds a position in their account to not close it or manage it without getting clear instructions/confirmation that it is your trade. When you close it, you now take ownership of it. It is best not to trade it. Yes, there is risk hanging out there if it ends up being your trade, but you might be opening a trade at the exchange when you are closing it in the platform.
Please call us with any questions 773.832.8320 or 844.TRADE20. Trading Futures is not suitable for all investors. Past Performance is not indicative of future results.
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Receiving wrong statement I've heard before but I've never heard of any broker not able to tell your open positions.
That's not just back-end error or mistake anymore, I hope you have recorded all your calls and emails, this might be little more problematic for some than just wrong statement.
And I hope I'm wrong on this and everything is getting sorted to as it should be.
The following 2 users say Thank You to LastDino for this post:
That's great news @SnakeTrades! I also received an updated statement that shows I was flat last night...and flat right now! I had an inadvertent long on for a bit last night. But I closed it after reviewing my execution log.
The following user says Thank You to Salao for this post:
I received this email from Phillips Capital
Have noticed in my 29 years in the market they try to minimize exposure about these kind of events to preserve their client base'
But maybe it was the clearing house of more wide spread than just this broker.
I hope they HONOR your trades....and it gets fixed.
Best,
Robin Dayne
**************************************************************************
Dear Customers,
We experienced a system outage yesterday which may have resulted in missing trades during the closing session. Additionally, these trades could also be missing from your 2/4/2020 statement. To remedy this, we will be reissuing a corrected statement shortly today.
The positions in your platform might be incorrect. We will communicate as we have more updates and believe the issue is resolved fully.
We apologize for any inconvenience caused.
Thank you.
Best regards,
Phillip Capital Support Team support@phillipcapital.com https://www.phillipcapital.com/
***********************************************************************************
So Order Desk emailed me, asked for account number, and just like that I was in a short position with new balance.
I closed the short because my account was up $66.
So basically I have the same account balance now as yesterday.
I called and NT said I was flat, but I emailed again for them to verify because I want it in writing.
I also took screenshots of everything.
I have had the experience of telling someone that the position they have that looks like the best trade they have ever made is actually not staying in their account. Believe it or not, the distribution includes wrong winning trades. You don't hear from those guys though.
Risk Disclaimer: Trading Futures is not suitable for all investors. Past Performance is not indicative of future results.
If you have any questions about the products or services provided, please send me a Private Message or use the futures.io "Ask Me Anything" thread
The following 5 users say Thank You to FuturesTrader71 for this post:
Thursday night I opened my NT and noticed that I was long 3 micro NQ on order that I had NOT sent. Up about $700. I closed the 3 positions and was flat.
Next morning I showed about $800 too much in my account.
Then around Noon there was suddenly 3 short positions of MNQ in my Ninja positions and I was down total about $550. I closed that order, and now I show about $200 loss in my account.
I have been taking pictures of my Orders and Executions pages.
Trying to get response from Ninja.
Be very carefull, This situation appends with InteractiveBroker. I lost near 10000USD$ in two diff time. I closed all my 2 accounts with them after that. First I have all the proof of what append, trade are opened by the system after have closed all my positions for margins, after that the qty in the system not corespond. For all 5 qty RTY opened, the system IBKR close 2 for margin requirement but never tell this to NINJATRADER trade closed. When my target are reached NINJATTRADER closed all (5) and this appear flat in the summary. But in fact IBKR opened two on the opposite side. I just the next day after sleeping I open my NINJATRADER to trade I see in my account -4500$ first time, second time -5500$. With all the proof (include data from system) he said the problem we don't support NINJATRADER, and NINJATRADER don't know about the problem with the API between. Finally both compagy pitch the ball together and I lost all with any
The following 6 users say Thank You to Benlem for this post:
Great to hear! Hope everyone else impacted didn't do too much damage to themselves when they closed (opened) fake (real) positions unknowingly this morning. Live to fight another day!
I had the same thing! with Philips clearing firm...they apparently missed matching up people's closing orders. My broker told me that his risk platform showed me in the position, but at the clearing firm, it was fine. I asked if i had hit 'close' (I was showing short at quite a loss) would that have put me in a long position and he said yes. So I left it alone and they are working on it. I haven't yet gotten a notice that it's off my platform, but they did send me my statement from yesterday showing the proper entries and final total.... Don't you have an emergency trade desk # to have them make sure you are flat?
Whilst this must be an awful situation to be in (and I very much hope it gets resolved asap) , I am very glad this issue was raised as it has made me far more watchful.
I am with NT8/Dorman. Has this happened to anyone with NT8/Dorman over the past 2-3 years ??
Thanks
Has happened to a few of the guys I know, some did the same thing as you and closed well closed what they thought was open, and the others made the call first and were told just to leave the platform as is and it will be cleared up.
As for the issue of closing the erroneous trades, the broker if its reputable should cover there own stuff ups, so in my opinion they will have insurances for such instances and if you can keep a record of all events you should be fine.
However if anything like that happens again should just leave the erroneous trades for the broker to fix in future
The following user says Thank You to WTangoF for this post:
I've had a similar issue in the past. However my broker told me similar, hence to presume I was flat. He later (within 15m) called me back and confirmed this.
In your case:
1. They admitted there is an issue at their end
2. They told you to presume you were square/flat as of yesterday. So assume this as being correct and get that in writing or record your calls.
3. You took up another position to offset your initial screen read of being short, this is not ideal as they told you they had issues.
Unless there is an issue at the exchange a good broker/clearing firm should be able to tell you your net position almost immediately while you wait on the phone, if they can not then start looking for a new clearing firm and broker. Cheap brokerage/clearing often leads to expansive costs elsewhere.
Good luck, interested in hearing how this works out. Hopefully Gold sky rockets while you are long to offset any potential losses (somehow it never works out that way).
The following user says Thank You to GinTrader for this post:
Thanks for sharing your experience Gintrader! I have learned a lot over this ordeal...and this thread.
The most upsetting part of it was they (the broker) wouldn't/couldn't tell me if I was in a position. It's something I didn't ever expect to hear. I closed the long shortly after I initiated it...after a review of my execution log on my platform. So, luckily, no horror stories with that long. It was a tough day, but it resolved OK.
Salao,
Great to hear it all worked out ok and without it costing you any $$$ or even worse the account getting suspended till they work out what is right and wrong.
You did the right thing by squaring up the long.
Over the years I have learnt to always have contingencies in place. The thing is you need to know what your position is.
As mentioned previously, a good broker and clearing firm should be able to tell you that almost instantaneously. But if they are having issues it's best to stand back and call it a day. No more trading for the session till the crap is resolved.
I had an issue once whereby the brokers feed/connection to the exchange was down, luckily I had no position at the time. The next day I opened up another account with an alternate broker. The problem these days with multiple accounts is that the exchanges smack you with additional fee's. It's a pain and costs $$$ a little more to run but worth the peace of mind when the poo hits the fan.
Have a great day.
The following user says Thank You to GinTrader for this post:
I think we all know who this broker is. My account has been a mess since last night. It grew by 2K for no reason and now its showing open positions that are not real, at least I didn't leave them open. I was sure it's an error and lo'behold got an email today about the whole fiasco. Not sure which way the chips may fall on my net liquidity when the market opens on Sunday. This better not be too wide spread or else their reputation may be in jeopardy.
GOOD GOD >>>
I HAVE PHILLIP CAPITAL and NINJA TRADER BROKERAGE.
BUT
I didn't trade that day.
Does this affect anyone that didn't trade as well? It shouldn't right?
Because apparently it is an OUTAGE that occurred at 3PM Central time. So if you didn't trade at those times then you shouldn't have an order in correct?
Also @BigMike >>>
You mentioned why most of these cases the result is actually more of a big loss.
You received some good answers.... that are partly correct...
but really one of the main answers is really the obvious one that>>>
Most people put their stops or order too close to the market for what would constitute a SWING TRADE SCENARIO.
Since most guys are "day traders" they have really tight stops.
If there is a system outage then their orders, stops and postions >>> are usually REALLY REALLY IN THE MARKET TRADING "AREA" and ALL THE VOLATILITY AREAS.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I ACTUALLY HAD A PROBLEM SIMILAR HAPPEN RECENTLY >>> BUT I ACTUALLY HAD A HUGE WIN.
The reason I had a huge win was because I actually was testing a new indicator that will create and place Stops automatically for my position...!
And I was testing that program that day... and I set the program to put an ULTRA ULTRA ULTRA FAR STOP of 3% of price on NASDAQ.
I don't mean 3% of the daily range ...
I don't mean 3% of some candle...
I mean 3 % of the actual index price. So Nasdaq Price * 3% = how far in ticks that stop was placed.
This was a great trading methodology because it treats the Nasdaq like a stock.
Anyway... I accidentally left that Stop Market sell order 3% higher in the Market. :O :O :O
And when I woke up and came in the next day >>> I had actually SOLD THE EXACT HIGH OF NASDAQ >>> by like 7 ticks...
It was practically a perfect trade. :O Because that day the Nasdaq ended up moving the 3% and then hitting that STOP order and coming down like 0.5%.
So obviously I closed that trade faster than I could blink and now always make sure there are no extra orders sitting in the market over night -- unless I want them there obviously.
You can trade in your sleep and take overnight trades but both the trade and the position sizing have to be excellent.
So basically what I wanted to say >> is most traders will have THEIR STOPS TOO FREAKING CLOSE to leave a trade OVER NIGHT.
An OverNight trade is a SWING TRADE >>> Not a Day Trade.
Combine that with the asymmetrical nature of the psychology with this scenario as the other gentleman mentioned and you have the issue of usual huge losses but small wins.
It is messed up that EVEN WITH INCORRECT ORDERS MOST OF THE UNTRAINED AND UNSKILLED TRADERS still do HUGE LOSSES and SMALL WINS.
That is messed up.
That is why I say and I will keep saying >>> taking Dr. Van Tharp's Peak Performance 101 and 202 was one of the best things that I ever did in my life.
And the Tharp Think Principles and Systems building workshops.
People need to break from bullshit and negative beliefs.
And then also GET THOSE R:RATIOS WHERE THEY NEED TO BE >>> 3 TO 1 or 5 TO 1 Reward to Risk
And your losses need to be with low amount of contracts and your wins need to be scale ins and increase the position size of the wins.
CmeGroup has a system called FirmSoft that allows users to 'view orders and order status, fill / aggregate fill details'. Does somebody knows if such a system is available to FCM's customers?
My Ninja account balance just went negative and apparently I shorted 8 ES contracts before close on Friday..
What the heck is going on?
Although I did receive an email from Phillip Capital saying everything will be fixed before Market open later today.. Let's hope that's correct, this is scary
I'm in the same situation. They just sent me a supposedly "corrected" statement that is still wrong, and they STILL have me in open positions that I never took.
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I just received another statement from PC for Friday and again I am Long on the latest closed position with a buy.
I have the log on my NT platform and that price was again marked as exit.
I will contact support desk again but it's unacceptable.
Also I don't have the collateral to keep positions open overnight so I don't understand what PC is up to
edit
Funny enough my current open P/L corresponds to my closed profit of Friday
The following 2 users say Thank You to lucama for this post:
I just received my statement from Friday and it looks good. My platform shows I'm flat with the correct balance, and my internet is working again. I still have an uneasy feeling that I'm not out of the woods yet...for some reason.
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Ya this is ridiculous, they finally sent me a statement and it shows trades that I never made with large losses. First my account went to $0 earlier today, then went negative..
And I'm still 8 ES Short from Friday currently, I don't even know how that's possible if my balance is negative
I'm furiously trying to call them but the Emergency desk doesn't open till market open at 6pm est
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We wanted to provide the most recent update regarding the Phillip Capital outage that occurred Thursday, February 4th.
We have been working diligently with Phillip Capital to assist them in correcting issues resulting from their outage, which has created inaccuracies on customer statements and within trading platforms. This message is meant to provide a transparent update regarding the current state, what work is being done over the next several hours, and expectations for tonight’s open.
Statements for Thursday, February 4th and Friday, February 5th may still be inaccurate for some customers.
Phillip Capital has made several attempts this weekend to correct the issues which may have resulted in positions changing in the trading platform for some customers. At this time, the data remains inaccurate for some accounts.
We have provided a significant amount of reconciling data to Phillip Capital and have asked them to update CQG. We expect this to occur prior to the open.
We expect Rithmic to be corrected tomorrow night. If you trade using Rithmic, please be sure to contact us at brokeragesupport@ninjatrader.com if you see a position that looks inaccurate.
Once we have confirmation of reconciled positions and account balances from Phillip Capital, we will send another email. You can refer to the also refer to the following FAQ for real-time answers while we assist Phillip in remedying this situation – View FAQ
If you are a NinjaTrader Brokerage client clearing through Phillip, please do not take any action on positions you feel may be incorrect. As a final update of accurate account data and positions in still pending, we suggest you do not trade if your account balance or position seems incorrect. Instead, please email us at brokeragesupport@ninjatrader.com for review and escalation.
We apologize for the confusion this outage has caused and greatly appreciate your continued patience. We have received a significant number of inquiries on the matter and have asked our Customer Service and Support Teams to work this weekend and to come in early tomorrow to ensure we’re replying to them as soon as possible.
We continue to work closely with Phillip Capital to assist in addressing the issues resulting from their system outage on Thursday, February 4th. Included below is the latest information we have as of 10:00PM CT on Sunday, February 7th:
Positions should now be accurate for the majority of CQG accounts. This data management process is usually automated but due to the outage, this position reconciliation process incorporated manual steps. Some limited variations may remain. If you do not recognize a position in your trading platform, please email us at brokeragesupport@ninjatrader.com for review and escalation.
There are a handful of accounts who carried positions over the weekend which were removed from the system around 6 pm CT this evening. Phillip Capital is working with CQG to reload those positions.
Account balances remain under review for accuracy and a final update is still pending. Once we have confirmation of reconciled balances from Phillip Capital, we will provide a further update. Their current expectation is that accurate statements for Monday, February 8th will be available by Tuesday morning.
We will continue to provide Phillip Capital all possible assistance to help resolve the issues as fast as possible. For real-time answers and status updates, please refer to our FAQ page: View FAQ
As a reminder - never take any action on positions you feel may be incorrect. Alternatively, please email us at brokeragesupport@ninjatrader.com with the applicable details.
We appreciate your ongoing patience and we will be replying to all received inquiries as soon as possible. Our Support teams will continue to work diligently to review any inconsistencies and help provide answers in a timely fashion.
Probably shouldn't trade at all until this fiasco is settled.
On my end, when i logged in today i found that I had LONG positions on MNQ. I tried to reach out to the Ninjatrader emergency trade desk but no one answered the phone. Then i closed my open/long position and emailed brokerage support about this. 45 mins later found myself in a SHORT position and then had to close my position AGAIN!
Still haven't heard back from the desk or the ninjatrader brokerage on my support ticket.
In the end the POSITIONS was NOT REAL but the CLOSE orders were REAL.
The following 2 users say Thank You to AvgTraderJoe for this post:
Hi I have never answered anyone on here before and I am from Australia not the US ,however in a situation like that its always good (but hard) to remember to not to panic.
What happened with the brokers statements etc can happen from time to time.But it is always worth calmly going thru your platform and exactly what trades you have done so that you can satisfy your self that you are square or whatever.You now are in the invidious position of being long as they appear to have made an error in telling you were short 3 .
Unless you have done hundreds of contracts that night my experience has been most traders know exactly where they are despite an erroneous statement .
The first thing to do is check your trades on the platform against the statement and then the logs so that you can satisfy your self that they aren't your trades .However if the longs have resulted in a loss I think you would have some justification in going to them and asking them to make good .Hope this helps and goodluck
I was told you are NOT supposed to touch ANY position that you did not put in >>> because then you can then become "LEGALLY" LIABLE FOR IT. In the words of the courts you take ownership and responsibility for it if you close it or modify it or reverse it or add or reduce it in any way.
It is insane but it is what it is.
That would only work in your favor if you wake up and find yourself in a huge profit. If you are in profit you can close it and the profit would be given to you and that would be the end of it. No courts or mediation needed.
But at a loss you have to sit on the loss and call and email their customer service like crazy. Record all phone calls. etc.. etc..
That is insane having to sit on a huge loss and keep emailing and calling but if you touch it >> they could make you pay for it.
I knew I had a sneaking suspicion of PHILLIP CAPITAL >>> when I saw that the OWNER AND FOUNDER of PHILLIP CAPITAL >>>
I don't know how much REAL SOFTWARE and REAL MANAGEMENT experience she has..... but when ever a CEO does the whole NEPOTISM thing... it 80 to 90% of the time is not good.
They also promoted one of the sons as CIO -- but he does seem to have real experience at 'equities analyst'.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hopefully I am wrong on this one and this is an isolated event but again it doesn't look good when I see the daughter and the son in charge of things that they probably don't know anything about.
Hopefully this woke them up and made them get SERIOUS about really knowing AND UPGRADING every single part of the business.
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As a word of caution, DO NOT TAKE action on any positions that you did not open. Call the Ninjatrader Emergency Trade desk and let them deal with it.
I was somehow short 8 ES contracts last night, which they removed after I emailed them. Then, I woke up and saw again I was short 3 ES contracts and after speaking to them, they're saying this is a real position that I took action on from a trade that I had no idea about.
They basically said these random positions will continue to happen till whatever issue they have is resolved.
The following user says Thank You to dipit19 for this post:
yeah honestly it's not happening everyday of the week, I'll stick with PC and save the hassle of moving broker. Apart from the stress on day 1, things seem to be back to normal, but I am still short of 360$ because of wrong reporting. Hope they'll fix it by tonight
The following user says Thank You to lucama for this post:
I can't even get in touch with ninja trader at all. Even the "Emergency" number no one picks up. After all this I'm only trading through LeeLoo. Ninja has proven they can't be trusted with real money
The following user says Thank You to ahelton for this post:
I agree on this. NT brokerage emergency desk isn't responsive at all. They are not picking up the phone or replying back to emails.
Better to get a decent brokerage/FCM like IB and be done with the middle party BS.
I have the same problem with Phillip Capital! last Thursday or Friday, I noticed an order that hadn’t been made by me, as I didn’t know what to do (because I hadn’t been informed) I closed and ended up with the negative balance, my balance doesn’t match the updated balance, I send emails, they do not respond and today again a SHORT order is opened at the price of 3880.25 MES, and the price has not even touched that level today!
I live in Japan and don't know how to proceed
(that was the last answer they gave me) "a little rude isn't it?"
You are responsible for every trade you make even if the FCM doesn't load the position or is late producing a statement. All those issues are covered in the Electronic Trading Risk Disclosure. You must always trade what you know. If there is a position you don't recognize, you contact the desk to investigate.
The mistake was trading on a position you didn't know without getting any information. The FCM may be late updating, the exchange may go down, a fill might not be reported. All these things are the responsibility of the trader which is why the brokerage firm is available to help. It is a lot of responsibility but that is what is required to have electronic access.
We have updated the platform to reflect the position you know. The FCM will be running a new end of day cycle to update the balance and verify your calculations.
The exchange will not waive their fees because you traded on a position you didn't know. If you want to proceed with a claim against the CME, please let us know and we can direct you to the right department at the exchange.
The following 3 users say Thank You to tonykoyama for this post:
If you were not impacted meaning, statements and positions were correct. You can trade however, I would sit out until information is brought into line which we expect by this evening.
Yes. We are at full capacity. All hands are on deck and most of the team has been up for days with minimal sleep helping Phillip resolve this issue. I understand growing frustrations but I ask for your understanding.
Raymond Deux
Founder and Executive Chairman
Disclosure: This communication is sent to you by NinjaTrader, LLC, a software development company which owns and supports all proprietary technology relating to and including the NinjaTrader trading platform.
The following 3 users say Thank You to NinjaTrader for this post:
Most if not all FCM's rely on 3rd party back office systems and ISV's (CQG, Rithmic, Trading Technologies etc...) and require a nightly synchronization between the systems that generate the statements and the trading system that the customers see. Just like any integrated system, there are points of failure. I don't recall ever since 2003 (when I started in this industry) a situation like this. Point is, its infrequent. While not a situation any of us want to be in, rest assured the NinjaTrader team is doing everything we can to resolve the situation at Phillip.
Raymond Deux
Founder and Executive Chairman
Disclosure: This communication is sent to you by NinjaTrader, LLC, a software development company which owns and supports all proprietary technology relating to and including the NinjaTrader trading platform.
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