Need Help: Urgent Broker Problem (Phillip Capital: NT Brokerage, Edge Clear)

February 5th, 2021, 01:20 PM

Same thing happened to me last Night only with NinjaTrader on the NQ. Had me short overnight

February 5th, 2021, 01:26 PM

Phillip Capital had me short M6B last night, though Tradovate said I was flat (as expected). PC confirmed there was an outage and I was instructed to ignore my statement and the Portal.

Yes, this is everyone's nightmare.

February 5th, 2021, 01:28 PM

Same here! First I was up $ 560,00 on a long and I was flat yesterday! And right now I am down - $ 170,00!

This is two times on one day!

I mailed NT Brokerage. Waiting for response...

February 5th, 2021, 01:35 PM

jjlee0709

I had similar experience with Tradestation. I had closed my open position on MNQ right before NY close, but when I opened up the platform a few hours later (i.e. @ the open of next trading day) my daily P&L number kept changing and it looked like I still had a position open. In my case, the order execution history showed the quantity of my buy and sell orders for the day was equal, which indicated I should have been flat at the close. I took a screenshot of that order execution history, which gave me a bit of peace of mind. Later when I called support, their response was similar to what you got, and on the next day, my statement was fixed and showed I WAS flat at the close. However, it was a bummer that I incurred a small unnecessary loss on the new position I opened in order to get out of the position I didn't actually have open. I left Tradestation because of this.

Hope this helps!

Yes your experience is pretty much a perfect parallel to what I'm dealing with. Phillip just emailed another statement from yesterday that shows all of the correct executions. And now my platform is displaying that I'm flat with, what appears to be, the correct balance. I phoned the trade desk and they were able to confirm that I am now flat. So it looks like all is good...maybe a little worse for the wear. Holy cow that was awful!

February 5th, 2021, 01:37 PM

Big Mike

Has this ever happened to anyone where they woke up to a huge gain, by mistake?

Why does it always seem to be a huge loss?

Error trades are asymmetrical. When people get positive error trades they close it immediately and view it as a bank error in their favor. When it's a negative error they spend a lot more time trying to work out what happened, hesitate to take the loss hoping it comes back, or that its not their responsibility.

* Note this is not aimed at anybody in this conversation. This is just an explanation of why there are so few big positive errors but so many big negative errors.

February 5th, 2021, 01:39 PM

I just received an updated account statement from Phillips that correctly matches what I had when I went to bed flat.

This morning, I saw I was short 7 micros of ES. This was incorrect, I was not in actuality short but was actually flat. But I did not know this then, so I bought 7 micros to cover. That was my first trade of the day which put me long 7 micros. I did some shorting and covering in the morning, 3 micros short, 3 micros covered. So my net position was 7 - 3 + 3 =7 long micro ES. I confirmed all of this with someone on the order desk at NinjaTrader and just received an updated activity statement from Phillip that correctly matches my account as of last night.

I sold 4 of the micros so am now net long. If I take my current realized and unrealized profit position and add it to the net balance on my statement from last night, it results in the net liquidity value on my computer screen Ninja platform. This is a good sign.

Bottom line: the first trade you made today to close out the erroneous position you saw when you woke up this morning was your first trade of the day. Work backwards from there with your following positions to get your net position.

Pa Dax

This thread needs your eyes too @Big Mike

Sent using the NexusFi mobile app

February 5th, 2021, 01:42 PM

Lfx987

Had a similar issue with by broker several months ago where trades were closed as a result of a new margin file that was added that had multiplied margin levels by a factor of 100 resulting in some clients positions being closed 🤣

In the above case, the positions were executed in the market and were not simply a reporting error. As such, the broker was forces to undo the trade at their expense as it was 100% their fault.

Anyway, lessons that I learnt:

Things to check before doing anything:

1 - Make sure the trades are real and showing up on your live system and not just a reporting error on your statement.

2 - If the trades appear to be live and are showing up on your live system, make sure you did not accidentally leave any open limit/stop orders.
Depending on your platform, the logs will show you what order type got you in to the trade.

3 - If you are certain you had no open orders and you have no idea as to how the trades could have been executed, then do nothing to flatten the open positions.

4 - Contact the support desk. They may well already be aware of the situation and advise you accordingly.

If they claim to know nothing, as long as you are 100% sure you had noting to do with the open positions, do nothing UNLESS explicitly told by the broker that as far as they are concerned, you have live open positions and you are responsible for them. In this case, take the details of the person you spoke to together with the date/time etc and then flatten the position. Then write an email stating you are querying how the positions came to be open as you believe you did not execute them and ask them to look in to it.

Follow up as per information received.

In your situation, whilst the orders you didn't recognize may have well have been an erroneous system issue, your decision to flatten the positions without first contacting support to to find out what the situation was could mean you are long the order you placed.

Depending on the broker, they could, out of goodwill, take any loss or they could say you are responsible as yo should have checked with them first if you had any doubts.

Tough one to call.

Good luck.

Yes this is pretty much the exact procedure that I would use. I was long for a little while, but after talking with the trade desk and going over my trade execution log I had figured I was probably inadvertantly long. So I closed that order. It was a difficult spot because I had no idea for certain if I had a position on or not, and it seems like no one on the broker's side could tell me if I had a position on. I'm guessing they didn't know. But that's a guess and I really don't know why they couldn't tell me if I had a position on or not.

February 5th, 2021, 01:42 PM

Personally, and just .02. Look into changing brokers. Some are far better than others and some are downright almost fraudulent (aka trade against you). We all likely can share our horror stories because heck you are not going to find those comments posted on the brokers sites...

Perhaps there is is a thread already open on this as to recommended brokers?

joeyZazaOG

EdgeClear · February 5th, 2021, 01:45 PM

Hey everyone!

We want to help shed some light into what we BELIEVE happened today. We are still waiting for the full details, but since this is a topic now and some traders out there may be worried, we thought this could help.

As you all now know, there was an outage at Phillip Capital towards the end of the trading day yesterday (2/4), around 3:00 PM CST. This caused the statements to not properly upload the trades executed towards the end of the day. The result being incorrect open positions uploaded to the platform.

Platforms such as Rithmic and CQG use the statements as a way to create the SOD (start of day) position and P&L. Since there was an outage at Phillip, when the statements uploaded to the platform, it pulled in the incorrect open positions for some accounts. This caused incorrect positions on the platform.

Here is what Edge Clear did today that I believe helped our customers as much as possible.

Brokers arrived to the office early once the issue was known

An email was sent to all Edge Clear/Phillip Capital customers with notice that the positions may be incorrect

We discussed with Phillip what the root cause is.

Phillip sent us the entire fill log for all customers orders yesterday

We used the fill log and compared it with February 4th�s statement

Using February 3rd statement to confirm the EOD (end of day) position

If any customer we noticed to have incorrect position, we attempted to reach out to them and walk them through the orders

We plan on updating our customers throughout the day.

@Big_Mike and us are on the same page on pretty much everything relating to futures. However, we advise anyone who finds a position in their account to not close it or manage it without getting clear instructions/confirmation that it is your trade. When you close it, you now take ownership of it. It is best not to trade it. Yes, there is risk hanging out there if it ends up being your trade, but you might be opening a trade at the exchange when you are closing it in the platform.

Please reach out to Edge Clear if we can help in any way. https://edgeclear.com/contact-us/

Good luck!

February 5th, 2021, 01:47 PM

Receiving wrong statement I've heard before but I've never heard of any broker not able to tell your open positions.

That's not just back-end error or mistake anymore, I hope you have recorded all your calls and emails, this might be little more problematic for some than just wrong statement.

And I hope I'm wrong on this and everything is getting sorted to as it should be.

Need Help: Urgent Broker Problem (Phillip Capital: NT Brokerage, Edge Clear)

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Need Help: Urgent Broker Problem (Phillip Capital: NT Brokerage, Edge Clear)