This question should be "Who on YouTube should be avoided" as there are 1000's of hours of great content on YouTube as there are all over the internet.
Also its too vague of a question. Good traders? Good traders arent necessarily good teachers. And teachers of what? Basics? Fundamentals? Technical Analysis? A strategy? Risk management? Psychology? Trading records? Backtesting?
So far the only posts Id listen to are the AVOIDS.
I didn’t know mentioning his name would bring about this much vitriol. Let me say that I’ve been through almost everyone mentioned in this thread on youtube and I’ve used my own discretion to see if what they were teaching or conveying actually worked in the futures markets. I don’t advocate anyone paying anything whether that’s a membership or trade room as there are plenty of free educational resources to learn how to trade. The most important method IMO is endlessly spending time with the charts and figuring it out on your own as far as market structure and price action is concerned. If anyone has done anything illegal they should be prosecuted and held accountable. The most frustrating thing about the trading community is the hypocrisy. We are ultimately trying to find an edge so we can take other people’s money so in general we aren’t in the most noble profession to begin with.
The following user says Thank You to Snydes112 for this post:
That is one perspective. When I trade (important concept) I enter the market and transfer/exchange/buy contracts/stocks with a willing entity. We both believe we are correct in our assumptions and mutually enter the exchange willingly. There is noting ignoble that I can see.
The following 2 users say Thank You to Tyro for this post:
Knowledge is power and and if you have a piece of knowledge that the other participants don’t you are taking advantage of their ignorance. Just as I could charge a kid $100 bucks for a snickers bar and he willingly pays that price. There’s nothing illegal about that it’s just that kid doesn’t know the market value of a Snickers bar. Such is the advantage seasoned traders/investors have over newbs.
The following user says Thank You to Snydes112 for this post:
Thanks, this is helpful. I'd like to hear other's perspectives.
There are two assumptions:
1. An adult is taking advantage of a minor.
2. Traders prey on ignorance.
Supply and demand are real things, ask anyone that has experienced an intolerable situation like a natural disaster - money is less important than safety and unscrupulous persons will seek to profit from these emotional needs in disasters. Trading is optional, we can assume no day trader is forced to trade, no day trader is caught up in a life situation, as a trader, so that they can never control their trading actions.
Life is about choices; generally bad choices are negatively rewarded and generally good choices are positively rewarded in all areas of life. We can think of situations where the opposite is true, but in general, awareness of one's poor decisions begins to influence one's future bad choices.
As an adult, I can have considerable influence on minors. Day traders are not minors; 18 is the minimum age set by most brokers for opening an account. This is because 18 is when a person can legally enter into a contract on his own. They are not minors.
There is no transaction, I know of, within the day-trading market that is based on ignorance. It takes considerable effort and determination to just to get access to the markets. One must have some capital and intentionally find and provide that capital to a broker or agent. As far as I know, no one accidentally becomes a day trader.
There is no moral choice here; within the day trading market it appears to me there is no control I can wield unless I am capable of moving the market or the information stream. My influence is in balance with every other day trader. In the randomness of the market, the only influence I have is over myself. "Such is the advantage seasoned traders/investors have over newbs".
The following 5 users say Thank You to Tyro for this post:
Just a change of mind?....there probably is a saying...never judge a book by its cover.
There are myraid of reasons one who could be on insta/fb or utube for that matter can be or not be a good trader. Since we are a seeker...if the person provides value...0 harm in listening or him or her. if no value...u move on.
there is a typicaly rule i follow. within 2 mins of talking to someone you should know if the person really trades or has traded. since its a utube vid....give a few more mins & u will know if there is value. If there is value and the person gives u the info u were looking for....is there a any harm of giving benefit of doubt n going thru the content.
I feel we as a socitey are in a age of instant gratification. Infact as a trader....that is sometimes the hardest thing to overcome. i feel that way....not sure of your opinion.
I find social media as a boon....to seek out people who are masters at their game. where does it say a trader or a doctor or a world class internet marketeer should not be on utube. Its a perspective. Garyvee is someone i follow for he makes sense to me. He is on almost every social media platform. Look in todays age if u not online...u r simply wrong.
Many traders have this feel this person is on social media...so he /she is a looser./snake oil yes it maybe....but how long does it take to move on from that person?....less than a min.
the whole world during covid has turned digital. people who were not...have had a tougher time to adjust?. in that case.....there are tons of guys making a killing of utube....by way of email marketing & what not.....but to the original question. yes there is good content even on trading on utube....is there a doubt about it. Seeking takes time and i would say....even if all content is not great but a creator has 2mins out of 200mins he/she has posted....damn i will take that 2 mins hand down any day...all day and give credit...why not...i learnt something new.
If the expectation is set at damn....i'll base my trades of what he/she is saying....let me tell u this. u can sit next to the worlds best trader and still loose?. if you dont think so....pls analyse why i am saying that. the scale/complexity and the way a good trader will trade more than often cannot be replicated and their risk tolerance may/may not be suitable. hence am not sure....if one can watch a video and decide if someone trades good?..bad...or outright lying ugly.
Well this is just my personal view.....i saw this post & have been off fio for long...thought wil give my 2cs n move on. sorry if i offended...that was not the intent.
the last is the best. when given free...most have 0 value for it.
if i gave u my watch....for free....n the perceived value of the watch is 2000$....one would look me up n down and curse me...thinking am giving a fake watch. thats how free is....at times....good traders also do not do stuff free i would think...simply due to this reason.
fio on utube too....i guess many find value in the countless videos...i know for sure i have watched many and especially stuff on order flow. if one is a good dr. one still finds value when another dr talks. i guess so in trading. but if one cannot find value...it is correct to move on. rather than belitting someone or something.
and there are various other things....but main thing i atleast approach life n same in trading...
if there is value...i will take it free or not. no value....even if free....flush it down.
The following 4 users say Thank You to paps for this post:
I have been reading this thread for a while and I just had a "crazy perspective" on this topic.
Imagine that I am a fake trader, I have been trading for a while but I have never been profitable, however I know all the golden rules to trade well.
Imagine that I also show you my best trades (some of them will be in SIM, some will be real) as a proof that I am profitable.
What would be the result ??
Most of you will say that I should be considered a scammer, but think twice.
If you believe that I am a real trader, you will imitate my trading style that has all the right elements to work (statistically). Isn't it what PNL suggest?
In the first market wizard, Van Tharp talks about duplicating the behavior of a successful trader using NLP techniques.
So maybe all these fake traders are not necessarily bad to learn to improve your trading.
The following 2 users say Thank You to SBtrader82 for this post:
What do you mean by "fake trader"? IF you trade, you are a trader, whether you are profitable or not is irrelevant.
Persistence! Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence.
Talent will not ... nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not ... Unrewarded genius is almost a proverb.
Education will not ... The world is full of educated derelicts.
Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent! Calvin Coolidge
@JosephConnors with fake traders I mean someone who pretends to be a "trade guru" but in reality he only trades in sim and he is not profitable. Of course we could say that since he is trading he is also a trader, but then anyone who can click a mouse could be defined a trader, since placing a trade does not require much more than that.
I agree with you that being profitable or not, is irrelevant in the definition of "trader", but if you pretend to be a market wizard and you are not even profitable, you are not being transparent to say the least.
NLP stands for Neuro Linguistic Programming and it is a technique widely used to replicate good behaviors of successful people. In U.S. there is a guy called Tony Robbins who became extremely famous as an NLP practitioner and motivational speaker (honestly I don't like him).
So the point of my previous post is that although "fake traders" do not make money and they are often consider scammers, they are not necessarily detrimental to other traders, because they might help you embody the correct trading mindset.
The following 3 users say Thank You to SBtrader82 for this post:
Funny you brought this up - as the ONLY "Guru's" I'll listen to are those who have been "In the trenches" and can teach from actually EXPERIENCE!!!
I remember going to an Island with my ex and seeing a group of people who paid something like $15,000 to see Tony Robbins (which I'm also not a fan of - he always reminds me of a used snake oil sales man for some reason ) - There was a couple in their early 20's who paid to walk on "hot coals" and fall from a beam of wood while people hold you with a rope (building confidence as they call it I think). I remember asking the young couple "Why would you work on your relationship already while you are so young? You're supposed to ExPLORE and make mistakes - NATURALLY - and LEARN from them.
Recently I was supposed to have a date with a woman who seemed very intelligent and good looking, As we spoke on the phone and I told her that I am a founder of a startup - she replied "Great ...I HELP business people" - bewilderly I asked "What is it that you do?" - and she said something along the lines of "I solve problems" ....and then it begged me asking the question and saying "How wonderful, are you or have been an entrepreneur ? " - NO she replied - "Have you founded any company or done Biz Dev for any major corporate / startup " - No she replied.....then I said "So what is your background" ...and then she ended saying " THIS IS NOT going to WORK between us" ....and I replied "INDED you are CORRECT my DEAR!" ....
It's unbelievable the NERVE and FALSE CONFIDENCE/courage to go to EXPERIENCED people and have to audacity with having ZERO backgroUND IN THEIR FIELD acting as "consultants/gurus "
But why am I amazed the world is full of VP's and C-Level who got to where they are by mere LUCK, sleeping with the right person - or just by the power of inertia / momentum of being in the right place at the right time and having mediocare performance - who said the world is q was ever LOGICAL?
Allright - enough with ranting - time to tunnel positive energy to the right places
Cheers - and have a splendid weekend,
S.
The following 3 users say Thank You to ziggy123 for this post:
Just as an FYI, note that when you wanted to tag @Joseph Connors, You spelled the name differently (no space before "C"), and the system instead matched to a different user, whose user name is "JosephC", and who therefore got a DM that you had mentioned him, and probably was puzzled by it, but the real @Joseph Connors did not.
It's a simple and common mistake, so I always check when the post is accepted to see that anyone I tagged with an "@" appears in bold italic underline, which shows the system match.
No problem, just letting you know. It's a very common thing, easily corrected when it happens.
Bob.
When one door closes, another opens.
-- Cervantes, Don Quixote
It's funny because something similar happened to me. I was in the gym and I started to talk with a guy and I mentioned to him that I trade futures. He said that he is an athletes coach and that he was asked to give some lessons about trading.
He told me that he didn't know anything about trading but that he thought that his experience as an athlete coach was applicable.
Maybe he was right but then I investigated further. He was working as a music teacher in public middle schools, so he was living out of a salary paid by the state, he had never achieved anything in sports, he was thin, not muscular, he never run a marathon or anything.... however he thought he had so much to teach.
He ended up writing books and doing seminars and he has a bunch of followers. Honestly I don't know how people can follow him, but apparently people love fake gurus.
The following 2 users say Thank You to SBtrader82 for this post:
@bobwest thanks a lot for the clarification, how do I mention someone whose name is made of two words ? does the system recognize the name after the "@" even if it's made of multiple words?
Yes, if there's a space within the name in the system, then that's what the system is actually going to match on.
So, with apologies to Joseph Conners for tagging him so many times, it the person's name has a space, just type one "@" and then the whole name, space and all. The space is a character and is part of the name.
That's how I tagged Joseph Conners in my post up above. You can tell that the system found a match, because the whole name, both words, is rendered in bold italic underline.
Bob.
When one door closes, another opens.
-- Cervantes, Don Quixote
The following user says Thank You to bobwest for this post:
Yes I think one of the big problems with social media in particular is the false expectations the really bad perpetrators portray.
The reality is your profit is the difference between your profits minus your losses and expenses. They dont talk about that.
They only talk about secret entries. And dollar profits.
Newbies are attracted to that like flies to...
I think the mismatch maybe partly due to the fact that great marketers aren't necessarily good traders and great traders maybe aren't the best marketers.
Paps ths is the BEST POST Ive read in years! I had to read it twice it was so good.
I read a ton and I always say if I take one idea away from a book it was a good book.
Now time is valuable so I'm not going to waste it reading garbage (or watching a farmer looking guy with a man bun when clearly he's full of a smelly brown substance per say) but the ideas the same. I mention him because he's constantly advertising OVER real content.
You said so much about life as well as trading. The one tiny thing I would like to add is newbies DON'T KNOW what they DON'T KNOW and these A$$HOLES prey on that.
Now I'm going to back and read again. It was that good.
I think journals on this site have much more value than some youtuber who "teaches" how to trade. Journals more honest simply because author doesn't wanna sell you something.
The following 2 users say Thank You to AlexSobol for this post:
And you also stated the following "We are ultimately trying to find an edge so we can take other people’s money so in general we aren’t in the most noble profession to begin with".
Yes, marketeers can con people. Those conned folks hopefully learn their lesson and don't repeat history.
The reason, I do not find traders to be hypocrites or less than noble than any other person in the working world is this:
1. You assume that there is always a loser. That is partially inaccurate. For instance, I may have gone long 2 days ago. The market is up, I want to sell my position just as you are ready to buy. I take my profit and you look to make a profit. No "loser" in this situation.
2. Just like any other business, there is healthy competition. I might sell my product 2% cheaper than you sell yours. You might not like it. But it's called free enterprise. If you don't like free enterprise, don't compete in the market, take an hourly job somewhere.
3. When 2 individuals enter the boxing ring, only one is going to come out a winner. And... They each knew that before entering the ring. They are both honorable in their pursuits.
If a trader, new or seasoned, has unrealistic expectations, they are no different than many others that enter a profession that have to take some blows til they wise up.
From my point of view, in general, traders are to be commended. If they have the wherewithal to embrace one of the most difficult fields and stick to it. they should be considered noble. They are not being spoon fed by being employed by someone else. There is something very noble about an person that might spend years learning a craft and not get one red cent. This learning curve is hundreds of times more difficult that a person that enters an apprenticeship. At least they get paid a bit while someone else teaches them.
This perspective comes from 35 years as a self-employed builder. About 1/2 of the builders that I rubbed shoulder with were burdened with jealousy. They did not like competition. They were not friendly. The other half were friendly. They were just trying to make a living like everyone else in the world. I enjoyed a sense of comradery with them. They could respect me and vice versa. Some were better at some aspects than me and I was better then them at other aspects of the building trade.
I am happy for the traders that make the money that they desire. Everyone is invited to the party. It's a game of competition just like in building.
Less than noble for competing, well not in my opinion.
Back to the charts! Don't you just love it?
Ps. Any healthy person that gets of their backside and goes out and is industrious, by whatever legal means, is noble. The plumber is just as noble as a firefighter.
The following user says Thank You to redbarntrades for this post:
It is quite obvious that mentors who set up a website and a community of people, do so to make some extra cash_
Some do it also to become popular and there is nothing wrong with that.
It is often thought that trading is a lonely business, hence mentors set up a websites to trade in community.
One can say, well not all mentors do that, but i would say all mentors do that, but i separate them into categories_
The Singaporean Rayner at least was honest enough to admit it in one of his videos_
-There are mentors who are real traders and provide a good analysis.. they've probably learned from someone else, and they felt confident to show it to others, and of course are happy to get that extra cash from all subscribers which is fair enough as they invest their time and energy to do so_
-Some of them are good traders and they'll show live trades taken online, and of course they never take the trade in front of the community, they use the other screen and if the trade goes well they'll show it to us, if it's a loser they don't, as simple as that_
Have you seen on you tube,,, i know a couple of people for ex: that post for 2/3 days in a row live trades being taken, and then you don't see them for a week or so. What does that mean? Did the guy not post cos he had losing trades, or did he not post for other reasons?
-I have been in quite a few live trading rooms as i wanted to choose which one suited me best, and have noticed that when the coach shows his trades, they are often trades that he closed whitin seconds, more like scalping_
-Some others advertise as trading signals, but when you get into their room they will say the idea is given and it is your responsibility to decide and do your own analysis_
-Other traders like to play more with people's psychology and prefer to call their community a family, so that if something should go wrong, the subscriber should at least feel loved by the community and the mentor_
Smiling and being always positive is a nice defensive sweet weapon against any future repercussion. Can you hate someone who is nice to you, Even if the coach is bad? No you won't!
Can you think of reporting and posting a bad review on Trust pilot to someone who had helped you when you lost trades, because of his bad trading method?
Sorry for the person who got cheated by JJ., however imho i could suspect that he is faking on ninja trader by taking trades with the replay mode, as no time/date is shown on the charts_ Also he will not show what time frames in ticks he uses when he actually takes the trade, (which i know is between 800-1500) but he does show his time frame of 7000 tick on Es and 3000/4000 ticks on Gold when he does his analysis_ Did you know that BnL is now millionaire? did you know who was his master_ His master in disguise was Joseph james, and this can found in Bnl's personal interview with Antony Crudele on youtube_
He got so frustrated by JJ fake fills that he decided to study and he made it on his own_
-Want a good advice? Before choosing a mentor, don't even trust reviews, as they can be bought_ I personally go on the twittter of that particular mentor and do a search with the twitter stats to see how many fake followers he has. This is accessible to anyone and it is free_ Then i subscribe, i start to follow people there and when i get the right chance i message and ask questions to real traders who bought his course_
I am now subscribed to a new Live room and i love it... i had unsubscribed from the previous room the owner was obsessed always talking about the vaccine, and kept on putting his price up every 6 months or so_ He does a new option course, and boom price up, he invites new people to work and says that his course is now more valuable and boom again price up.
People pay hundreds for a trading room and people choose big communities because they think they do well, but having thousands of subscribers means only one thing, less time for the coach to care for your questions.... His more experienced traders will get the extra to answer.
Balanced communities with a fair mentor are fine and i wouldn't pay more than 80-100 usd for it. (per month) I never trust those websites who do not show price and you need to email them to get the price_
Some live rooms are cheap and they propose you internal courses to buy for 3/4K for 2 weeks or less_
All this messy and frustrating situations eventually will help the shrewd ones to properly study the market and become their own guru.
About me i study every day and i am happy to trade with a small community where you can exchange trade ideas and levels_ Having a strategies and knowing what to look for stacks the odds in our favor and the rest is all about probabilities.
The following user says Thank You to gianuk for this post:
) - There was a couple in their early 20's who paid to walk on "hot coals" and fall from a beam of wood while people hold you with a rope (building confidence as they call it I think). I remember asking the young couple "Why would you work on your relationship already while you are so young? You're supposed to ExPLORE and make mistakes - NATURALLY - and LEARN from them.
