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i am again starting a to initiate a short trade int he nq righ tnow right here
selling 1 @ 12116.50
looking to pull out 250 on it
12,116.50 - 12.50= 12,104 exit so my buy back price on a 1 now is
12,104.5
shorting 1 mote mini nq here
12,131
average price is now
12,123.75 i put my profit taking order into the book also
my next short point in the nq is 12,143 for my total of 3 lots to make a unit.
this would give me an averge price of 12,130 and i need 750/3= 250/20= 12.5 points below
130 or 12,117.50 so i know my plan all the time. i am ready
short 3 now and might be adding my 4th at 12,135.50 to hold into the close if we get there
this one does get a break even stop which is my break even on my initial entry of my average unit price which is 12,130 now so i will give it 5 points one i fill on the 4th going with momentum down short term.
12,125 would be the 4th sell entry to hold into the close not 12,135 sorry this 4th position must be initiated once i am in priofits on my 3! so i am adding to a winner and never losing on it because i have 3 winning lots before it is put on
i have an order to sell 1 at 12125 with a buy back at 12,130 even this is set up.
and i have an order to buy a 3 lot at 12,118.25 this is above my 250 price by 3 ticks. based on what i am seeing i sometimes will shift this a qtr point to a full point because i want to be aggressive at times around my 750 gain points or 250 pr lot.
but i do not need to sit here and worry anymore. i will be back to update later if and when i get an alert on my phone. have a good one. thsi would be roughly 750 plu s750 plus 750 gross gains but i will be batting 100% on my flat to flats! if this one works. but again i am not worried and i have 1500 to work with just in profits since lunch as a cushion.
yes it is unorthodox yes it is different once again i was entered into my 4th position and it was exited at break even now I am still short 3 however i took a loss on my 4th position so really i am running 2 lot unit instead of a 3 lot unit and if the mkt goes above my 130 breakeven price again then I am starting to lose more money against my initial 3 lot unit
1. sometimes i re sell above my average but most times like now i will just hold all 3. i also have the choice to let profits run on 1 or more of my 3 lots since i was stopped out of my 4th position it matters at times. still short and staying short. i may actually initiate a new 3 lot unit short here because i like the short so much now
yes i am going to short 1 at 12138 even this is a new unit position so it has a buy stop to cover in at proftis of 250 automatically which is 12138-12.50 pts so 12125.5 is my buy back on this initial lot which is part of a 3 lot unit.
i will sell 1 more lot of my 3 lot unit at 12.150.25 if we get there and i will then have
my initial 1st unit working and 2 lots of my second unit. i treat the units separately
i am always just trying to make my 250 on every lot and every unit that typically does not change unless i am wanting to let my profits run but only on 1 lot and only after i have lost on my 4th luck lot
i have a set of rules that are pretty strict. i am showing you the execution mechanics of my trade but the secret sauce of what i do is when i initiate my 1st lots as part of my units. again no stops at all on any of my positions none. i am ok looking to sell another 1 here possibly and will have 2 lot stowards my second unit. it is very likely that i take profits on my second unit way before my 1st unit.
i will add my 3rd lot sell at 12163 even and have fulfilled my 2nd unit. currently i am trying to buy back and lock in 500 dollars profit on my 2 lots with an average price of 12,144
so my buy back price is 12,131.5 on my second 2 lots as part of my unit and i am looking to sell 1 lot at 12163 to fulfull my entire 3 lot unit
i am now down 1600 on my 1st unit plus 5 points of loss from the 4th lot so down 1850 total with 1600 of it on paper
I am at 1.67 units in my mind and hoping to get to 2 units but if now im ok with it 12163 will be 2 units fullfileld and i will be net short 6 lots total
filled
short 6 lots total short 2 units.
my total average unit prices are 12,130 and 12144 so my total average on 6 lots is 12,137 but i treat them separate. all orders are in nothing more for me to do now but let the mkt work
looking to add a 3rd unit
sellign 1 nq 12192
will be selling 1 more at 12206
out of my 1 lot of the 3rd unit plus 250 so back now on to my original 2 (3 lot units) and i have covered the loss i took on the 4th lot end of day that i lost on so i am again back to 6 full lots with a break even price of 137 total but i am taking profits at 12,132 if we get there
currently down $4,680 on 6 lots in the mini if itwere micro i woulld be down 468 dollars
a 5 % up day in nq is highly unusual and i could hit my max daily loss i am well berond my daily profit so far
it took less than a minute to drop 30 nq pts so i need a few more minutes to get profitabel on my last 2 units im holding
everything is going according according to plan in profits on second unit now
flat all units now
100% flat to flat profitable
750 x 4 = 3000 gained plus 250 minus 250
thats how i trade
my point in showing this is that i often times risk more than what i make so the idea that you need to be 1x3 or or 1:1 is ridiculous on so many levels because i am day trading with extreme volatility and mutliple different position sizes. i am only trying to profit at the end of the day what happened on my way there doewsnt really matter so long as i am consistently profitable every day and i am and today was the worst day i have had in a few months due to the insane rally in the nq.
worse day from teh standpoint of total risk on paper.
have a great day and find your own way of doing things. you still gotta understand when to deploy your plans just like i do
i dont care what it does i understand fully that it is very bullish but there are periodic profit takers up here for sure and all i am trying to capture is that brief moment where the buyers stop and the sellers come in and hoepfully im out as the buyers step back in or right before. i have no idea what the price will do but it is not nerve wracking for me because i trust what i know from years of trading this way and just in the past hour i up gross 750 x2 so 1500 which is tacked on to my daily loss limit so i am not too worried about shorting the nq with a 3 lot when it is up 400 points 500 hours away from an election. they must run it up before they take profits wouldnt you?
tomorrow i will trade the mini nq again on this thread just as i did today except i will be trading with trend instead of counter trend like today. yeah a 400 point up trend and i counter trend traded it because i was worreid about going long against all the counter trenders anyway a new strat tomorrow going with trend in the mini nq
you need a lot of tools in order to make it in this game and you must know how and when to deploy them.
Yesterday the conditions were the most difficult for your strat and yet it paid out making it very robust. I like this approach because you're selling high and buying lower. I traded this way successfully in sim but never was able to do it live. I think I should work out, and further detail, my rules (more strictly) and lower my leverage (to eliminate fear or at least to reduce it).
You wrote to keep the leverage low. Is that in relation to one's futures account or to one's total capital?
For roughly every 15k trade 1 MNQ. I guess it doesn't matter where the money, on what account it is? As you wrote earlier I like to keep my futures account as small as possible. Then I can understand the risk sometimes is as much as 50% (from the account, not total capital) as you wrote earlier.
Leverage is what attracts me (and others) because it seems a potential way to make a lot from almost nothing (when able to keep the losses in check). Not using leverage means one has to have some capital already. Trading only 3 lots MNQ then requires roughly $45.000. Many trade 2 minis on a $5.000 account. Do you think this kind of overleveraging influences the mind (fear) which results in taking profits too soon and not being able to endure (necessary) drawdowns like you had yesterday? Or what else is the reason to keep leverage low?
Is there a specific reason to use margin to determine a profit target? I guess this is a way to define return on capital invested and 50% is just a chosen target. Could this (margin) not also be used to determine the loss for the day or is this (daily loss) more related to what you're prepared (and are able to) to lose? Or maybe it is in relation to the range of the day.
Feel free to answer or not.
I am looking forward to the next session. I am out and will be coming in the office a little later but will try to catch up (not meaning to copy). Thanks!
Hi @jamrock, your trading is interesting in many respects, but your trade-by-trade detail does not belong in this thread. The original question was "What kind of annual return / drawdown do you expect from your trading, or what do you put as your objective?"
If you want to open a new thread as a trading journal, that would be a better location for your trading. If you want to open a thread to directly address your trading strategy or trading ideas, that would be a good location too. But putting your trades in this thread is veering far off topic, and is essentially taking over the thread.
I'm not saying there is anything wrong with your trading, nor your ideas about trading, nor that they have no value, just that this is not the thread for them.
If you want to explain your trading ideas in a more general way that is responsive to the topic of the thread, that would be fine in this thread -- although note that the original poster was asking a question about expected annual returns. But listing your trades is not what this thread is for -- that belongs in a different thread. Feel free to start one for that purpose, if you want to continue posting them.
Please help us keep the forum reasonably well-organized, so members can find and join discussions on topics that interest them.
Thanks.
Bob.
When one door closes, another opens.
-- Cervantes, Don Quixote
once again the mods on this site are absolutely ruining it and making any and all communication and posts anemic.
I posted my trade log yesterday here because the guy who started the thread had 1 response i thought sure i can just throw out a number or a % or i can actually do my trading and show how drawdown can work or work against you. but of course the moderator has to chime and tell me to start my own journal. I am not here to start a trading journal.
I dont journal my trades in a trapper keeper with stickers and GOLD Stars and of what i did right and wrong i dont have time for that by any menas. I am at a loss for words how someone actually posting in real time drawdown and then saying if this one day was a year which would be an extrapolation of the results would actually not only state answers about drawdown but would actually show them in real time.
Perhaps the person who starts the thread should be able to click a button and summon the moderator or the starter fo the thread could dsend a warnign to the person adding content they either like or don't like to the thread. thsi was the MODERATORS 3rd strike for compeletely controlling the content of this free site which had very few
actual responses.
im long NQ and was going to show today how i deal with drawdown when going with trend which is long but upon reading my chastise ment for my loss of time and energy while trying to help others by answering a question in the best most informative manner i could got this BOB WEST guy all over me again
maybe BOB WEST should open up his own blog and just run around it all day puking on other peoples thoughts and ideas and deciding which little power trip he is going to itch this minute or that. I trade i dont live by many rules except my own and if this guy bob west cannot see that i answered this question above and beyond the call of duty then he is blind and he may very well be the reason that many who heed any advice on this site lose at trading due to
Trading: Primarily Energy but also a little Equities, Fixed Income, Metals and Crypto.
Frequency: Many times daily
Duration: Never
Posts: 5,049 since Dec 2013
Thanks Given: 4,386
Thanks Received: 10,206
For what it's worth I agree completely with @bobwest - and based upon the Thank You count others obviously agree. While @jamrock posts were interesting they were in my opinion off topic. I find it very annoying when a thread discussing something is suddenly disrupted by somebody who suddenly feels the need to post their trade idea's (often - but not in this case - with massive screenshots) with little relevance to the subject. Saying that though, if the only thing that @jamrock did was the posts in this thread then I think @xplorer banning is very heavy handed.
