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New Computer Build


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New Computer Build

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  #21 (permalink)
Valencia+valencia/spain
 
 
Posts: 1 since Nov 2017
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MiniP View Post
Curious who has built a trading specific desktop? I am looking at building one here in the next few months, maybe wait until black friday and load up then as I am in no rush.

For those of you who built these trading focused pc's any recommendations ?
I am not looking to spend thousands on a computer, I've have used an HP for the past few years and it works great, the only reason for an upgrade is because I am doing more and more with different platforms and at times it could be a little faster.

lets see some pics/recommendations

note: I do use three monitors 1 27" and 2 32"

if this should be in the battle stations thread then let me know

-P

MINIMUM ONE I7. WITH A MINIMUM OF 16 GIGAS.

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  #22 (permalink)
boise idaho
 
 
Posts: 33 since Apr 2020
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phantomtrader View Post
Are you co-located at the CME?

Well, I'll say that's an interesting question, and one that I recently considered. In the past couple of months I moved back to futures, using Amp as the FCM, ATAS as the platform with Rithmic Order Routing and unfiltered CME data, hosting some custom C# code in ATAS, streaming a local socket to a heavily modified custom Java Analytics process, etc. Lots of custom coding, but I am definitely not an HFT (high frequency trader); just a retail scalper.

But I did notice that Rithmic offers near exchange colocation in its data center, starting with dedicated servers at about $500 per month for 32gb Xeon machines. Funny enough, that is likely where I will be within 12 months from now.

But that's because my Order Entry is semi-automatic, or computer-assisted manual trading, with fast reacting triggers that I can "fire and forget" for actual execution; and I'll be using BOTs within the next year. So moving toward a much higher percentage of fast-reactive trigger-based automaticity! (that's a mouthful)

So I never thought I'd be doing something close to colocation, since I am only a retail trader; but then the triggering approaches I've been using would make the $500/mo near colocation offered by Rithmic's partner, a definite plus for my trading.

I use a concept called "Virtual Limit Orders" and basically, the software targets a price, but attempts to react as price moves through the limit order, allows for the run-through, and then triggers a fast Market order at a precise moment. Obviously, the lower the latencies, the better such an approach can operate, so.... that's what could lead me to near colocation.

I am surprised, and that possibility only recently dawned on me,
that this approach to latency and Order speed through Rithmic routing and
their hosting data center, could be where I'm headed ! But real colocation
at the CME is not in my future.

[edit] I put 90% of my computing resources, and effort into realtime analysis of
Time and Sales and Depth of Market trend analysis; and only 10% into Order execution.
The key to winning in trading is NOT
"brute force", speed and precision, but they are very helpful; ONLY when you have
Analysis which truly predicts where the Market will be moving; and so the focus is
on Analysis, not on brute force speed of execution as an HFT approach might use.

hyperscalper

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  #23 (permalink)
Reno, Nevada
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: ZN, ZB, CL
 
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Posts: 330 since May 2011
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hyperscalper View Post
Well, I'll say that's an interesting question, and one that I recently considered. In the past couple of months I moved back to futures, using Amp as the FCM, ATAS as the platform with Rithmic Order Routing and unfiltered CME data, hosting some custom C# code in ATAS, streaming a local socket to a heavily modified custom Java Analytics process, etc. Lots of custom coding, but I am definitely not an HFT (high frequency trader); just a retail scalper.

But I did notice that Rithmic offers near exchange colocation in its data center, starting with dedicated servers at about $500 per month for 32gb Xeon machines. Funny enough, that is likely where I will be within 12 months from now.

But that's because my Order Entry is semi-automatic, or computer-assisted manual trading, with fast reacting triggers that I can "fire and forget" for actual execution; and I'll be using BOTs within the next year. So moving toward a much higher percentage of fast-reactive trigger-based automaticity! (that's a mouthful)

So I never thought I'd be doing something close to colocation, since I am only a retail trader; but then the triggering approaches I've been using would make the $500/mo near colocation offered by Rithmic's partner, a definite plus for my trading.

I use a concept called "Virtual Limit Orders" and basically, the software targets a price, but attempts to react as price moves through the limit order, allows for the run-through, and then triggers a fast Market order at a precise moment. Obviously, the lower the latencies, the better such an approach can operate, so.... that's what could lead me to near colocation.

I am surprised, and that possibility only recently dawned on me,
that this approach to latency and Order speed through Rithmic routing and
their hosting data center, could be where I'm headed ! But real colocation
at the CME is not in my future.

hyperscalper

Interesting. Someone mentioned recently that Rithmic changed their data delivery - and they weren't happy about it. I don't use Rithmic so I have no experience with it.
I'm a scalper so I'm very sensitive to data delivery speed. I check my trades every day after market close to determine price slippage - which can be significant on the NQ.
Attached are my NQ scalps from yesterday - they match up fairly well to the expected price and time. So I have to assume my internet connection is functioning well.
I don't know if co-location would improve anything - never looked into it.

But you're right that speed is important, especially if you're a scalper. My ES and ZB trades are longer and are not necessary scalps but NQ are always scalps.

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  #24 (permalink)
San Ysidro CA
 
 
Posts: 1 since Nov 2019
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MiniP View Post
Curious who has built a trading specific desktop? I am looking at building one here in the next few months, maybe wait until black friday and load up then as I am in no rush.

For those of you who built these trading focused pc's any recommendations ?
I am not looking to spend thousands on a computer, I've have used an HP for the past few years and it works great, the only reason for an upgrade is because I am doing more and more with different platforms and at times it could be a little faster.

lets see some pics/recommendations

note: I do use three monitors 1 27" and 2 32"

if this should be in the battle stations thread then let me know

-P

No offense to the guys that build "white boxes" year ago I did,like so many computer guys,
But your best bet is with a company that builds 1000's
1. you didn't in the past get a break on CPU until you bought 1000, so a fast one was a 250-300K investment to start
2. Same with Microsoft, prices less but you get the point
3. Go with big company, Dell maybe they will have many of the same you buy and if they find a driver problem will have answer faster.
4, As IT guy when I had a problem they sent out new part before I had even taken bad part out
.....................

Now on to what you want get something with a multi port graphics card and if you can afford it Xeon work station
If not
Costco sell great computers and you have 90 days to be happy
they sell Dells and HP
I am fond of Dells

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  #25 (permalink)
Raleigh, NC
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
 
Posts: 25 since Sep 2010
Thanks: 9 given, 20 received

If I may make a suggestion about this trading computer. I believe you don't need the latest and greatest chip or the top of the line graphics card. You just need a simple powerful rig that will last several years and just simply perform. I purchased my rig off of ebay from a little company that just builds and markets trading computers. I received mine on Nov. 15, 2017 and it has not been turned off since and have had zero issues with it. I went a little overboard and got one that could have as many as 9 monitors and several graphics cards. I think I spent $650 on it but could have gotten one far cheaper and would have done the same job. Just my opinion. I think spending $2-4 Grand on a trading computer is ludicrous. Check them out. They have many different computer setups and I am sure they will have something you can use. It's money well spent!

https://www.ebay.com/usr/powertradestationsglobal?_trksid=p2047675.l2559

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  #26 (permalink)
boise idaho
 
 
Posts: 33 since Apr 2020
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phantomtrader View Post
Interesting. Someone mentioned recently that Rithmic changed their data delivery - and they weren't happy about it. I don't use Rithmic so I have no experience with it.
I'm a scalper so I'm very sensitive to data delivery speed. I check my trades every day after market close to determine price slippage - which can be significant on the NQ.
Attached are my NQ scalps from yesterday - they match up fairly well to the expected price and time. So I have to assume my internet connection is functioning well.
I don't know if co-location would improve anything - never looked into it.

But you're right that speed is important, especially if you're a scalper. My ES and ZB trades are longer and are not necessary scalps but NQ are always scalps.

I recently edited, and added to my prior response that speed, precision, latency is definitely beneficial, but is only 10% of the solution to the problems. 90% of my work and compute intensivity (lol) is devoted to realtime Analysis of trend, based on deep Time and Sales (Inventory) Analysis, and even more difficult real time Market Depth Trend analysis.


hyperscalper

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  #27 (permalink)
Dublin
 
 
Posts: 7 since May 2020
Thanks: 0 given, 3 received

best value I think would be to buy second-hand servers/workstations like the HP Z series, I got all of them, Z400, Z600 and Z800. The HP Z600 and Z800 can take 2 Xeon CPU, in one I have 2 Intel Xeon Processor X5675 with 6core/12threads at 3.06ghz - max 3.46, and in the other one, I got 2 Intel Xeon Processor X5680 with 6core/12threads at 3.33ghz - max 3.66ghz. In Z800 got 64gb ddr3 server ram, the z600 have standard 32gb ddr3 ram. The nice thing is you can build a really powerful workstation for a really good price. You can buy those at decent prices on eBay or other sites. Also, Dell T5500 is nice while T7500 has better cooling than T5500. You only need to add a decent graphics card, I have a gtx1070 and an SSD. I did try a few games and all of them are playing nice.
I use to have between 4 and 6 monitors, now I only have a 48inch 4k LG and I'm more than happy. Some LG TV has the same IPS panel that are in high priced monitors, but you need to know exactly what are you buying to be sure you get the desired quality. But now is getting easier as you can buy an OLED or QLED TV and I'm quite sure that the quality will be great, at least this is what I will do soon.
Now, it really depends on what type of trading are you doing, if you do manual trading and don't like indicators and keep everything simple you can do trading on any pc/laptop. I only need PC work power when I'm testing strategies on ProRealTime and Multicharts.
Hope it helps.

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  #28 (permalink)
Roanoke
 
 
Posts: 3 since Apr 2017
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josh View Post
Well, I wouldn't categorize MiniP as a "beginner" in that he seems to have been involved in the trading world for some time.

For me, my ladders are set to refresh every 16ms. I run two separate instances of SC, one for ladders/orders only, so it stays lean, the other for charts only, because it's ok if they're a bit slow. Running ladders with several charts up would make it too slow, even with a reasonably powerful setup (just due to the way charts/ladders are updated, presumably single threaded and sequentially in SC). So, that's the world I'm living in, and it's not possible on a 2015 dated Surface 3. FWIW, there's nothing "advanced" about that setup, it's essentially what I've used for many many years, so a beginner could just as easily want to use something similar, and would be let down by old hardware.

So I think this depends a lot on your trading style. If you trade using charts only, and trade a time frame such that getting in and out of the market quickly is not an issue, then the machine doesn't need to be fast. If you use a price ladder and have quick trades, there's no room for a machine that's slow. The universal requirement is reliability, so as long as that's met, go with what you need.

I would make one recommendation about hardware, spend as much as you can on RAM, CPUs are fast today, but getting as much RAM as you can afford with give the CPU room to do its work. Don't overspend on CPU and shortchange yourself on RAM.

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  #29 (permalink)
Austin, TX
 
Experience: Master
Platform: ninjatrader, r-trader
Trading: CL, NG, TF, NQ, YM, GC, ES
 
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Posts: 863 since Jun 2011
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I don't find need high end computer for actual trading. Realize this may be contingent on what you are doing. If need speed best thing you can do is get a server close to the exchange. Better processor, more ram etc not going to make up for proximity.

Where I do find a more powerful computer helpful is backtesting. A few years back I built a XEON E5-2670 (Two Processors) 2.6ghz with 64gb of Ram that has been a great backtest machine. Of course can get much more powerful today but this has been a great setup for number crunching. The big tech companies like Facebook and Google where changing to more power efficient processors so they were dumping these $1000 processors (few years back prices) for $100.

I use three computers
-Server at CME Aurora for actual trading
-Xeon backtest machine
-Personal computer to do other work, email, surf the web etc.

I would suggest not trading on same machine you do other work surf the web on. Having your computer lock up during trading hours because you were doing other work on your computer followed by a mad dash to reboot is never fun.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
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  #30 (permalink)
Colorado Springs, CO USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Amp Futures. CQG
Trading: Futures
 
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Posts: 50 since Jul 2012
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Someone mentioned eztradingcomputers.com so I thought I would give my opinion on them.

I purchased one back in 2014 (i7, 16gb, ssd, 4 monitor setup) and could not be more pleased!

I had a problem when I upgraded to Win10 and they did a LOT (multiple hours) of work with me
trying to solve the problem but I ended up having to send the machine in for service. They did
a great job with the repair (it was not the machines fault, not warranty). The machine is still working
fine to this day. I run 4 monitors with Ninja 8 and lots of charts with no problems.

When I need a new machine (which will be soon) I will be going to them.

They are a good company to deal with and I recommend them highly!

Persistence! Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence.
Talent will not ... nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not ... Unrewarded genius is almost a proverb.
Education will not ... The world is full of educated derelicts.
Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent!
Calvin Coolidge
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