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Micro account vs Funded account (combine)


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Micro account vs Funded account (combine)

  #11 (permalink)
Stangem
Lawrenceburg TN/USA
 
Posts: 1 since Feb 2019
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Why would you not just trade the Micro's in the Gauntlet?

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  #12 (permalink)
 emun 
prague, czech republic
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: NQ
Posts: 165 since May 2012
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It is necessary to realize that the things like Trading Combine are just another sim account. It is something between sim account and live account (it is not free but you know your max risk). If you take it like that, than it is OK. But donīt expect that you will ever get funded account. Because these companies are not here to risk their hard-earned money!

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  #13 (permalink)
Koenigsac
Tallahassee
 
Posts: 9 since Jun 2020
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I have a side question based on what I read on this one.
I have an account with TD Ameritrade. I have had one a long time with stocks and bonds.
I have been trying futures trading in simulation with a smaller account.
I noticed with TD Ameritrade that if I buy one ES contract the buying power hit is !3,400. So even with a 25K account I could not buy two contracts. The strategy I use requires multiple contracts so I can scale them out.
I started using MES with is 1/10 the BP.
OK the question is, people in this thread seem to be saying I am getting hit with many times the normal amount of BP that I would have at other brokers. Is that right? I thought 13.4K is really high for one contract, but figured it is what it is.

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  #14 (permalink)
dbouzas
Houston, TX
 
Posts: 18 since Jul 2019
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hey Ariel,

Thanks for posting. I see that your from Cordoba. That's awesome. I am from Buenos Aires and live in Houston, Texas. I have been trading for a little over 3 years, this past year exclusively. I have passed the TopstepTrader 50k account this year and I am very happy with my trading after going through their program. I started trading futures live on E-Micros M6E, M6B and MJY back when those were the only e-micros. I didn't have much money or a set of rules or even a trading plan back then. I think Bob is very accurate when he says that each account will solve different problems. Live trading has its technical and emotional learning curve. But it does you no good if you don't have rules, risk management, stats tracking or a trading plan.In a live account there is no one controlling you from killing your account. I believe that the greatest growth came from my trading combine. I was able to develop my set of rules and trading plan based on TopstepTrading's rules and the trading stats tracking. Having them monitor me makes me really think twice about any position I put on and eventually out of bad trades. The data avialable makes your after action report a breeze. You can really see how your trading is developing. So, I think having both accounts would be best. With the live account you can practice controlling your fear and work out the feel of managing positions emotionally and technically. In the combine you work on staying within your rules and guidelines. As a professional trader at a bank, hedge fund or other firm your gonna have rules that you have to follow no matter what. The trading combine is more realistic in that aspect even though its not "live." Your gonna come to find out that no one trades with their own money. Hope this helps you.

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  #15 (permalink)
 okinawayutaka 
Tucson
 
Experience: None
Posts: 52 since Sep 2019
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hey buddy, im currently funded on a 25k account. I have traded my own live account with good success. Getting good results consistently in sim is good, because it means you can do it in live.. Just keep in mind emotions will mess with you hard at first.. I blew a few live accounts because of the fear and revenge trading.. It takes time to get adjusted and expect to lose money at first. Just learn to chill out, watch for the trend to mature and go for it, and use everything you did in sim.

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  #16 (permalink)
arielalejandro
Córdoba
 
Posts: 27 since Apr 2020
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Yep I thought of that the thing is that the target profit is high so it will take too much time and probably with the money of those many monthly fees I can open a micro account. I'm not super interested in making money right now (if I can them awesome!) But want to have more exposure to live trading. I know the limitations on the combines and they're a mixture between live and sim, but I think having failed one, the pressure is higher and on a micro account you can do it at your own pace.
Stangem View Post
Why would you not just trade the Micro's in the Gauntlet?

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  #17 (permalink)
 Captain135 
Bay Area, CA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TradeStation, TOS
Trading: Futures, Equities, Options on Futures
Posts: 48 since Feb 2017
Thanks Given: 53
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Did you document your strategy performance of your paper trading? It's essential data. That would be your guide to knowing how big of a losing streak / drawdown you should normally expect, which will inform you whether or not you can realistically stay above the minimum drawdown rules for the different combines.

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  #18 (permalink)
 
CannonTrading's Avatar
 CannonTrading   is a Vendor
 
Posts: 216 since Mar 2013
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arielalejandro View Post
Hello everyone. First of all I think this thread should go in this forum, if not, please feel free to move it where it belongs, and also Iīm not english native speaker, so sorry in advance for any mistake.
Here we go:
I was studying and practicing paper trading with the Thinkorswim platform for quite a long time now with real time data. I started to read about trading and markets probably almost 3 years ago, and when I started to do paper trading basically was a gambling, shooting at everything that moves. Needless to say the result of that so I kept reading but not "trading"
Time passed and started to do paper trading again with an action plan, stop and profit target, sizing, etc etc and with the determination to follow those rules to be as realistic as possible. Things started to do well and I started to be profitable (in the simulator, I know)
Also I read about the psicological effect of being live or not, so here I am now.
Iīm in a mini gaunlet 50k combine, trading with only 1 ES contract to keep the losses in check, althou I canīt. Tried to execute as always, with the same parameters as I always did after 6 months of paper trading but I can feel the "fear" knowing that in the end thereīs money in stake, even the monthly fee of the gaunlet. $-300 the first day, $-500 today. I donīt know how it will end but I can guess...

So, if I fail with the gaunlet, from your experience, wouldnīt be better to start with a micro account where a big movement in price doesnīt take too much of loss, since the MES only has $1.25 per tick and start from there and forget about earn money (I donīt have the rush to have 1 million in 2 days, Iīm not that kind of guys) at least at first but at least get used to been live and at least cover the costs of the operations (fees, commisions and platform?)

On a side note, the reason of taking so much time to decide getting live somehow is because I really wanted to have a strategy that could work and I think I found it, because 6 months of paper trading with military discipline and annotating, each day the results, gave me the confidence to go with the gaunlet.

Sorry for the extension of the post but I wanted to be as clear as possible about the whole situation.
Thank you for you time.
Ariel.

My colleague Roger Muri has assisted more than a few clients in similar position to you these past few months, he shared the following:

I feel your worries and they are absolutely justified. Therefore It would be smart to trade micros in the same way you would trade the large contracts.
Try to limit your trading to max a couple hours a day. When you start, analyze what kind of a day we are facing, is it volatile day or do we follow a certain trading range?!
With micros if you are trading the right direction you can reduce your drawdown and spread the orders out. Eventually take profit on one to cover cost and keep the second as a runner if you believe we might go further. Treat them as if you are trading the large contracts and learn as you go.

Trading on Demo will never be the same since emotions are not affecting you the same way.
I found that a lot of traders that combine their trading with spreads tend to reduce their risk and are able to trade the bigger picture of the market a bit better than the quick turn overs which can go both ways.
PM me if you like his contact info to continue the conversation.

PM with any questions about Cannon Trading (800) 454-9572 (310) 859-9572. Trading commodity futures, forex and options involves substantial risk of loss. The recommendations contained in this post are of opinion only and do not guarantee any profits. These are risky markets and only risk capital should be used. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results.
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  #19 (permalink)
 EgoRisk 
Fort Lauderdale, Florida, USA
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NT8, Bookmap
Trading: ES, MES
Posts: 189 since Feb 2017
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arielalejandro View Post
On a side note, the reason of taking so much time to decide getting live somehow is because I really wanted to have a strategy that could work and I think I found it, because 6 months of paper trading with military discipline and annotating, each day the results, gave me the confidence to go with the gauntlet.

Sometimes market behavior changes. Sometimes traders' behaviors change.

I would identify whether these losses are caused by your approach/method or by your execution of your method, determine whether you changed or the market behavior you were capitalizing off of changed.

When you paper traded, did you ever experience losses exactly like this? If so, then obviously this is to be expected.

If not, what was the edge of your approach? Why did it work? What did it benefit from? What market behavior was harmful to your approach when you paper traded? When you had these losses, were those same triggers occuring in the same way as during your paper trades? If not, what was different...the lead up, the result, what exactly? If everything was the same marketwise, what was different about you, your mindset, your feelings, your preparation, your expectations, your actions, your inactions?

Hope you journaled well during your paper trades and now during these losses.

Sorry if I'm not speaking clearly. Hope you understand what I'm trying to get at.

Edit...once you figure out what changed, then you have to figure a way to address/deal with that. First step first.

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  #20 (permalink)
 dan1957 
tacoma washington usa
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: sierra chart
Trading: es
Posts: 4 since Apr 2015
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Thanks Received: 16


I guess I would ask what kind of parameters your trading uses. If it's a mechanical system, you will last a lot longer trading micro's before ultimately blowing up as market conditions cycle between manipulated accumulation/distribution and trend. If you are using for example a combination of things like correlated value, volume profile and the interest rate curve as a discretionary endeavor, you shouldn't need large stops and have a decent chance for success. Large and small accounts that trade with large stops ultimately fail in my experience- only an uncorrelated portfolio trading with large stops has a chance for success, and comes with a high psychological price tag. Best of luck to you.

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Last Updated on July 31, 2021


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