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Is anyone actually making money?


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Is anyone actually making money?

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  #1 (permalink)
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Can anyone actually prove to me that they have been consistently growing their account with futures? (ES,RTY,NQ,GC,CL) So far I'm yet to meet someone who is making money who isn't trying to sell me something :/

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  #2 (permalink)
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KyronC View Post
Can anyone actually prove to me that they have been consistently making money with futures? (ES,RTY,NQ,GC,CL) So far I'm yet to meet someone who is making money who isn't trying to sell me something :/

This has been discussed in these threads





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  #3 (permalink)
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KyronC View Post
Can anyone actually prove to me that they have been consistently making money with futures? (ES,RTY,NQ,GC,CL) So far I'm yet to meet someone who is making money who isn't trying to sell me something :/

There are plenty of profitable traders on here. There are also plenty that are not. I have no idea what the actual breakdown is but I would imagine a very large percentage of users are not profitable - but that is the point of this forum. It's somewhere to go for help.

By proof I assume you mean somebody posting their brokerage statements or something to that effect? Plenty of us have done that too, but it is a futile exercise that really doesn't achieve what you think it might. My brokerage statement for example isn't your brokerage statement, so it only has value to me and is 100% irrelevant to anybody else.

Profitable traders on FIO have nothing to prove and also have nothing to sell, so I would be surprised if this was via FIO.

As a sidebar, I know some traders who have been studying the markets for well over 10 years and are not yet profitable. It is a long process.

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  #4 (permalink)
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KyronC View Post
Can anyone actually prove to me that they have been consistently making money with futures? (ES,RTY,NQ,GC,CL) So far I'm yet to meet someone who is making money who isn't trying to sell me something :/

What kind of proof are you looking for?

Just because you haven't met somebody...

What about https://kjtradingsystems.com/about.html.

@kevinkdog will even give you are free profitable strategy for the ES, just by giving him your email. He is a futures.io Elite member.

Or how about all these people who let you use their working strategies for a fee.

https://ninjatrader.isystems.com/

Or how about @FuturesTrader71 who just gave a free webinar Thursday here on futures.io. He owned a prop firm, and is also a Elite member...

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  #5 (permalink)
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WoodyFox View Post
What kind of proof are you looking for?

Just because you haven't met somebody...

What about https://kjtradingsystems.com/about.html.

@kevinkdog will even give you are free profitable strategy for the ES, just by giving him your email. He is a futures.io Elite member.

Or how about all these people who let you use their working strategies for a fee.

https://ninjatrader.isystems.com/

Or how about @FuturesTrader71 who just gave a free webinar Thursday here on futures.io. He owned a prop firm, and is also a Elite member...

I was too frustrated when I posted that question, I felt like I had been running into brick walls. It's just I'm so tired of having my hopes and dreams built up and then destroyed. I haven't got anyone in my life to teach me about futures, and then when I go online to learn there's always a conflict of interest. Someone is always trying to tell me how profitable they are and how I can be too, but for a fee. Now a days it's so easy to manipulate figures or just straight up lie. I think what I was really trying to ask for was a source of information... Someone I can look up to and learn from, free from a conflict of interest. I wouldn't mind paying for education, or even a premium for really high quality education, as long as it's actually worth it.

Thank you very much for putting forward your suggestions, I definitely feel like it could get me over some hurdles. Thanks again!

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  #6 (permalink)
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JonnyBoy View Post
There are plenty of profitable traders on here. There are also plenty that are not. I have no idea what the actual breakdown is but I would imagine a very large percentage of users are not profitable - but that is the point of this forum. It's somewhere to go for help.

By proof I assume you mean somebody posting their brokerage statements or something to that effect? Plenty of us have done that too, but it is a futile exercise that really doesn't achieve what you think it might. My brokerage statement for example isn't your brokerage statement, so it only has value to me and is 100% irrelevant to anybody else.

Profitable traders on FIO have nothing to prove and also have nothing to sell, so I would be surprised if this was via FIO.

As a sidebar, I know some traders who have been studying the markets for well over 10 years and are not yet profitable. It is a long process.

As I've just said to the guy above, I was too frustrated, too emotional when I posted this. I was just so desperate for someone to get me out of the hole I was in. I just felt as though everyone who says/gives the impression they are profitable were trying to sell me something.

Can you give me any sources to go to where I can learn about high probability trade set ups, or actual strategies that people use on ES & CL?

Thanks, Kyron

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  #7 (permalink)
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KyronC View Post
Can you give me any sources to go to where I can learn about high probability trade set ups, or actual strategies that people use on ES & CL?

Thanks, Kyron

I'm not JonnyBoy but I will assume you are asking in general. My take is that you are in one of the best places that can provide information about a wide range of trading styles.

There are some journals which are excellent. Some are in the "premium" section of the site but not all.

For example, user GFIs1 has some great content which highlights how the trader's mindset within a trading system actually makes money.

Another great thread is Okina's (RIP) Trading Oil Velocity System.


So, if you are patient enough and exploit FIO search function to its fullest, chances are you are going to find valuable stuff.


I agree with you when you say that most people who are trying to sell you something have a conflict of interest. Probably 99% of trading "educators" do so too.


Start with the free stuff in here.

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  #8 (permalink)
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@KyronC as an afterthought:

I don't know where you are in your trading path but if you don't know already, you should be aware that there are several different ways of trading profitably. Some are short term, some are long term, some are automated, some are not.

Each method has its own strengths and weaknesses. You should ensure whatever you start examining fits your personality.

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SpeculatorSeth
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I've been shown many profitable broker statements, but it really comes down to what you consider consistent. Many retail expectations are a little unrealistic.

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KyronC View Post
Can anyone actually prove to me that they have been consistently making money with futures? (ES,RTY,NQ,GC,CL) So far I'm yet to meet someone who is making money who isn't trying to sell me something :/


If they did prove it to you, it wouldn't mean anything to you personally. There is a LOT to learn on this forum. I've been a member for 10 years and it's unique in terms of the value offered here, and I continue to learn things all the time. I suggest that you stick around for a while. One of the biggest skills that ALL traders, including big time money managers, must master is the ability to separate useful vs. non-useful information. See this as an opportunity to learn how to do this. You will find nonsense on this site, and you will find gems that, if coupled with your own effort, will help you progress.

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KyronC View Post
I was too frustrated when I posted that question, I felt like I had been running into brick walls. It's just I'm so tired of having my hopes and dreams built up and then destroyed. I haven't got anyone in my life to teach me about futures, and then when I go online to learn there's always a conflict of interest. Someone is always trying to tell me how profitable they are and how I can be too, but for a fee. Now a days it's so easy to manipulate figures or just straight up lie. I think what I was really trying to ask for was a source of information... Someone I can look up to and learn from, free from a conflict of interest. I wouldn't mind paying for education, or even a premium for really high quality education, as long as it's actually worth it.

Thank you very much for putting forward your suggestions, I definitely feel like it could get me over some hurdles. Thanks again!

IMHO....

Real traders talk about Risk. How to manage it. How to mitigate Risk.

We talk about Probabilities. Discuss an Edge. Asymmetrical Opportunities. Or as I like to say, "Finding suckers to take the other side, good thing there's one born every minute."

People selling you something talk about profit.... O how much profit. You can always tell a newbie because they do not think about Risk. They cannot. Their brain is so intoxicated with profit lust.

This business is the hugest illusion, the most complete counter intuitive experience you will ever find..... on the planet.

Do yourself a favor and watch these four videos from Joe DiNapoli.....I think it will help you.....I'm not recommending his approach; you need to figure that out for yourself. Listen to what a real trader says, how he thinks, what subjects come up. This is absolutely zero BS....









I try to rewatch these when I can. Watched 1 and part of 2 earlier today. Pure Gold. Love it.......

Ron

...My calamity is My providence, outwardly it is fire and vengeance, but inwardly it is light and mercy...
The steed of this Valley is pain; and if there be no pain this journey will never end.
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  #12 (permalink)
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josh View Post
If they did prove it to you, it wouldn't mean anything to you personally. There is a LOT to learn on this forum. I've been a member for 10 years and it's unique in terms of the value offered here, and I continue to learn things all the time. I suggest that you stick around for a while. One of the biggest skills that ALL traders, including big time money managers, must master is the ability to separate useful vs. non-useful information. See this as an opportunity to learn how to do this. You will find nonsense on this site, and you will find gems that, if coupled with your own effort, will help you progress.

Are you consistently profitable? If so, how long for?

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  #13 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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Blash View Post
IMHO....

Real traders talk about Risk. How to manage it. How to mitigate Risk.

You can always tell a newbie because they do not think about Risk. They cannot. Their brain is so intoxicated with profit lust.


Ron

I just spent the weekend trying to convince a new trader that the $3500 MA crossover strat they just bought will not work in the long run. He was only worried about making money and after going blue in the face trying to explain Risk and why you shouldn't try and trade 50+ contracts on something that hasn't been back tested or ran in a Live situation I finally gave up. The statement above is one of the best I've seen on here.

Once someone blows an account 3 or 4 times they then understand that preserving capital is #1

-P

"Truth is not what you want it to be; it is what it is, and you must bend to its power or live a lie"-Miyamoto Musashi
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KyronC View Post
Are you consistently profitable? If so, how long for?

That really depends on how you define "consistently profitable." If I make money in Jan, Feb, March, but am down in April and May, but am net positive over that period, is that "consistently profitable"? If I end most days green for a net gain, but spend a large portion of time in the red, holding on to losers that eventually wind up working, am I "consistently profitable" despite being perpetually on the verge of falling off a risk cliff? Risk-adjusted returns are more important to many people than net returns. To answer your question--by my definition, which is, I have an upward-sloping equity curve over some period of time, yes. But, your question comes from a place of naivety and the whole discussion is doomed to eventual disappointment. On this forum, vendors are required to identify themselves as such. Anyone else trying to sell you something should be a red flag.

IMO, you are wise to be skeptical. But don't dwell on this. In short -- to reiterate my previous recommendation: if someone is trying to sell you something, then move along. Otherwise, learn how to glean useful information and see if it helps you. Start a thread, search for threads that contain info pertinent to what you want to trade, etc. -- get involved and figure out who you are as a trader.

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  #15 (permalink)
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josh View Post
Your question comes from a place of naivety and the whole discussion is doomed to eventual disappointment.

Why is the discussion doomed to end in disappointment? I think asking people who aren't trying to sell me something if they're profitable is actually a pretty good place to start. And if you are going to reply to me, use words you would use in real life, you did it the first time. I know you don't use words like 'perpetually' & 'glean' in real life. While studying at University I've learnt that many people like over complicating things to make themselves seem more intelligent, whereas I think it takes more intelligence to make something complicated seem simple. You've been a member since 2011, you don't have to pull powerful vocabulary out your arse to get credibility.

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KyronC View Post
Why is the discussion doomed to end in disappointment? I think asking people who aren't trying to sell me something if they're profitable is actually a pretty good place to start. And if you are going to reply to me, use words you would use in real life, you did it the first time. I know you don't use words like 'perpetually' & 'glean' in real life. While studying at University I've learnt that many people like over complicating things to make themselves seem more intelligent, whereas I think it takes more intelligence to make something complicated seem simple. You've been a member since 2011, you don't have to pull powerful vocabulary out your arse to get credibility.

@KyronC

Please moderate your language. You are new here but this site does not tolerate gratuitous expressions such as "pull powerful vocabulary out your arse".

Also, in response to josh, you write "I know you don't use words like...". The fact is, you don't know josh personally, so do not assume what they may or may not say in real life.

Also please note, what josh wrote, actually, reflects his likely level of expertise. He is right in pointing out that "making money" is quite a simplistic statement. You may want to look up the concept of 'drawdown' for example.

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KyronC View Post
And if you are going to reply to me, use words you would use in real life... I know you don't use words like 'perpetually' & 'glean' in real life.

...

You've been a member since 2011, you don't have to pull powerful vocabulary out your arse to get credibility.

This is the first time I've heard of "glean" and "perpetually" being referred to as "powerful vocabulary." In my world, they're words that most people know. All the same, thanks for outlining the guidelines on how replies to you should be worded.

To be blunt: I have zero interest in how many credibility points I accumulate in your book. I don't know you, and took my time to try to be helpful to you, a stranger. Clearly, I have failed. In all sincerity, I say good luck to you -- because you may very well need a metric s--- ton of it.

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KyronC View Post
Why is the discussion doomed to end in disappointment? I think asking people who aren't trying to sell me something if they're profitable is actually a pretty good place to start. And if you are going to reply to me, use words you would use in real life, you did it the first time. I know you don't use words like 'perpetually' & 'glean' in real life. While studying at University I've learnt that many people like over complicating things to make themselves seem more intelligent, whereas I think it takes more intelligence to make something complicated seem simple. You've been a member since 2011, you don't have to pull powerful vocabulary out your arse to get credibility.

Run when someone is selling you something in this business.

Pick a platform. Read Mark Douglas. Read Denise Shull. Figure out you from the standpoint of do you want or need quick trades, are you super patient, or not so much. Can you stomach losing big chunks like $3000 at a pop or only $300 loss.

Once you know you, you can better understand the time frame that most suits you. Now figure out an edge within that time frame. (Books, testing, study, screen time, live trades)

All this took me 10 years total. First trade was in Orange Juice back in 1997 ish.

Sounds to me like you are going to need to sit down with someone and watch them trade ...a tutor/mentor. Nothing wrong with that. I did that thru a group setting at seminars. John Carter/Mark Douglas, John Netto, Tom Busby (this one was a big big mistake). Find Kam there in the UK.

I have not had breakfast yet this morning. I have to mow. I'm waiting for a software update from a vender. I have some reading to do for a course I'm taking. Yet I am typing this for you. Honestly trying to help you. I think there is a 18% probability what I say here will mean something to you.

I would NEVER take a trade with P this low.

Hope I am wrong......

Ron

...My calamity is My providence, outwardly it is fire and vengeance, but inwardly it is light and mercy...
The steed of this Valley is pain; and if there be no pain this journey will never end.
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  #19 (permalink)
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Blash View Post
Run when someone is selling you something in this business.

Pick a platform. Read Mark Douglas. Read Denise Shull. Figure out you from the standpoint of do you want or need quick trades, are you super patient, or not so much. Can you stomach losing big chunks like $3000 at a pop or only $300 loss.

Once you know you, you can better understand the time frame that most suits you. Now figure out an edge within that time frame. (Books, testing, study, screen time, live trades)

All this took me 10 years total. First trade was in Orange Juice back in 1997 ish.

Sounds to me like you are going to need to sit down with someone and watch them trade ...a tutor/mentor. Nothing wrong with that. I did that thru a group setting at seminars. John Carter/Mark Douglas, John Netto, Tom Busby (this one was a big big mistake). Find Kam there in the UK.

I have not had breakfast yet this morning. I have to mow. I'm waiting for a software update from a vender. I have some reading to do for a course I'm taking. Yet I am typing this for you. Honestly trying to help you. I think there is a 18% probability what I say here will mean something to you.

I would NEVER take a trade with P this low.

Hope I am wrong......

Ron

Thank you, this was exactly the type of reply I was hoping for. It's honest, clear, and constructive.

Thanks again!

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josh View Post
This is the first time I've heard of "glean" and "perpetually" being referred to as "powerful vocabulary." In my world, they're words that most people know. All the same, thanks for outlining the guidelines on how replies to you should be worded.

To be blunt: I have zero interest in how many credibility points I accumulate in your book. I don't know you, and took my time to try to be helpful to you, a stranger. Clearly, I have failed. In all sincerity, I say good luck to you -- because you may very well need a metric s--- ton of it.

Well said. I was just putting together a long post highlighting some educational threads on psychology, methodology and real world trading ideas for the OP to build upon. And then I read the few posts above and discarded it.

What a shame. I spent the last hour or so putting a pretty solid package together. Some people just don't want to be helped I guess.

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@KyronC

You can delete your "Lol" comment from this thread in reference to my last post, but it still gets messaged to me. There is no place for an attitude like yours on this forum.

All the contributors to this thread thus far have done nothing but try to help you. I don't know why you feel the need to be rude and snarky.

I wish you good luck in your trading journey.

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JonnyBoy View Post
@KyronC

You can delete your "Lol" comment from this thread in reference to my last post, but it still gets messaged to me. There is no place for an attitude like yours on this forum.

All the contributors to this thread thus far have done nothing but try to help you. I don't know why you feel the need to be rude and snarky.

I wish you good luck in your trading journey.

I deleted it for that very reason, there's no place for it on here, I was acting out of frustration.

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@KyronC let's start over. You have been given some suggestions by quite a few experienced FIO users.

How or what you make of that is up to you. You can either tell us a bit more about yourself, what you traded, how you traded, etc. or you can start looking around FIO armed with some of the suggestions provided.

I will just add that, to me, the most invaluable tool has been just searching around the forum. The 'search' engine is quite powerful. But that's just me. Other people might be better served by asking specific questions, or just browsing. It really depends on one's personality.

Either way, good luck.

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  #24 (permalink)
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xplorer View Post
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@KyronC let's start over. You have been given some suggestions by quite a few experienced FIO users.

How or what you make of that is up to you. You can either tell us a bit more about yourself, what you traded, how you traded, etc. or you can start looking around FIO armed with some of the suggestions provided.

I will just add that, to me, the most invaluable tool has been just searching around the forum. The 'search' engine is quite powerful. But that's just me. Other people might be better served by asking specific questions, or just browsing. It really depends on one's personality.

Either way, good luck.

Thank you, I do regret saying what I did. It’s just I’m so tired of having my hopes and dreams built up and then knocked over, and I wasn’t getting the answers I wanted.

Yeah, I would really like to spend a couple of minutes just quickly explaining my current situation and experience, but I feel like I've burnt down my bridges.

Of course I apologise though , everything I said was out of pure frustration.

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  #25 (permalink)
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Here is a quote (from Trading in the Zone, i believe) I always read over and over again...

“Money is just something you need in case you do not die tomorrow. Let this is a reminder for you not to obsess over profits and losses. In whatever you do, strive for enjoyment, focus, contentment, humility, openness... Paradoxically (and as an unintended consequence) your trading performance will improve significantly.”

Good Luck to you!

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  #26 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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Skidboot View Post
Here is a quote (from Trading in the Zone, i believe) I always read over and over again...

“Money is just something you need in case you do not die tomorrow. Let this is a reminder for you not to obsess over profits and losses. In whatever you do, strive for enjoyment, focus, contentment, humility, openness... Paradoxically (and as an unintended consequence) your trading performance will improve significantly.”

Good Luck to you!

adding this one to the wall

-P

"Truth is not what you want it to be; it is what it is, and you must bend to its power or live a lie"-Miyamoto Musashi
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  #27 (permalink)
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@KyronC
I saw the post before you deleted it and No wonder your hopes and dreams have been knocked over. You will not be trading 100 contracts and profiting $25,000.00 per week in just one years time. Start with 1 contract in one market and master that. Make it a Micro if you can and throw that spreadsheet away!

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  #28 (permalink)
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@KyronC
I saw the post before you deleted it and No wonder your hopes and dreams have been knocked over. You will not be trading 100 contracts and profiting $25,000.00 per week in just one years time. Start with 1 contract in one market and master that. Make it a Micro if you can and throw that spreed sheet away!

More or less exactly what my mentor said, start with 1 market and master a few set-ups. I'm starting with MES so those 100 contracts would actually be 10 ES. Does that change how you feel?

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  #29 (permalink)
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KyronC View Post
More or less exactly what my mentor said, start with 1 market and master a few set-ups. I'm starting with MES so those 100 contracts would actually be 10 ES. Does that change how you feel?

One step at a time. Master a few setups in one market with one contract. Learn good risk management and once you prove you can increase capital...then adjust. I would prefer to start diversifying the markets traded before increasing contracts in one alone. This will smooth out the equity curve, then you can start adjusting contracts.

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  #30 (permalink)
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WoodyFox View Post
One step at a time. Master a few setups in one market with one contract. Learn good risk management and once you prove you can increase capital...then adjust. I would prefer to start diversifying the markets traded before increasing contracts in one alone. Smooth out the equity curve, then start adjusting contracts.

Okay, that makes sense, thank you. KJTradingsystems (Kevin Davey) actually said something very similar. He suggested diversifying into an uncorrelated market (to smooth out our equity curve), do you agree or do you think trading the MES & M2K at the same time wouldn't cause any problems?

Thanks,
Kyron

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  #31 (permalink)
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KyronC View Post
Okay, that makes sense, thank you. KJTradingsystems (Kevin Davey) actually said something very similar. He suggested diversifying into an uncorrelated market (to smooth out our equity curve), do you agree or do you think trading the MES & M2K at the same time wouldn't cause any problems?

Thanks,
Kyron

I would pick a commodity or currency future.

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  #32 (permalink)
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I would pick a commodity or currency future.

Okay, perfect thank you!

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  #33 (permalink)
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OP, here's an old somewhat infamous thread indirectly related in theme to your question with lots of discussion. I think there was someone that even posted broker statements proving they had some profitable days on futures. ("Ten-thousand in Education and still not profitable!")

As to your main question. Of course there are a very, very few who have or are making periods of profitability. Why do I say periods? Because being "consistent" for a month or two is still just an early experience on the journey. Trading consistently is very tough, similar to competitive individual sports. Like how many golf or tennis players can have a good enough season one after another to maintain a career and make a living at it? imo, the challenge of consistent trading is tantamount to that analogy. Some days or months a strategy one has worked out on their own may not do as well, or even completely fail for who knows how long. So one would presumably need to develop or switch to other alternate strategies they may have devised. Most would likely have to keep trading part-time, or part-time was always the goal for extra income while keeping the regular day job. In summary, basically you'll rarely hear of anyone posting their statements or how consistent they are or how well, or in detail, as it's understandably a very private financial matter. No one is likely going to straight out offer to mentor every step of a way in detail to a stranger on the web, but instead most likely, only a significant other or close friend or relative if at all. Most of those who reach some degree of consistency have paid for it with countless hours perhaps tens of thousands of practice, some form of journaling, and forward testing. And of course they are likely not going to or need to try to sell something. There are of course a few borderline breakeven traders who try to make up the difference in income by selling some education as a vendor perhaps, and maybe they are of some value to newcomers if they offer a chat or webinar room with at least real live trading going on.

Elitetrader has a "Hall of Fame" section of old threads where there is seemingly some discussion about live trading. I would also check out tradingschools.org and read most of the articles, even those about trading in general by Emmett. There's also the "38 steps of trading" famous thread here posted some time ago. ( "The 38 steps of trading" ) Also threads by fattails are great as besides his famous shared indicator threads, he also posted about the futures instruments and analyzed their session times. Anyway, that's my 2c. gl.

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  #34 (permalink)
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@KyronC since I've noticed you joined the Elite membership here is a number of threads that I consider excellent that may help. Some of them are very long, such as the Scalper's Journey, but are also peppered with advice from really seasoned traders.











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  #35 (permalink)
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First post here :-) Very interesting thread. I am very pleased to find such a wonderful, thoughtful group of awesome traders :-)

A little story about one guy making it happen.

I am living in Japan with my wife and 2 young kids. I have been trading forex and stocks part-time for about 14 years. Since October of 2019, I decided to make a move to work as a professional (as in my day job) trading in the various financial markets. I knew that my chances to make a decent monthly income were slim at best. But I was determined to figure out how to make it work.

I know from my many years of trading part-time and running startup companies that I needed a solid plan. My background is I have worked as a software engineer in tech startups for over 25 years. About a year ago my wife and I opened up a small cafe where we invested more than $200k and I was thrilled to work with my hands instead of sitting at a desk. About 12 months into running the cafe the writing was on the wall, we were just breaking even and I realized I am the wrong guy to be running a cafe. I made a decision to temporarily shut down the cafe and focus on stock and forex trading as I am 100x better suited for trading than I was cooking food in a cafe. I sat down with my wife and we had a good cry about closing the cafe as it is rather embarrassing to close. In Japan, people do not make public business mistakes and when they do they often take these mistakes very badly, some even commit suicide. My wife and I came to the conclusion that she would take care of the household bills, the kids, cleaning the house, and fulfilling online orders for our tiny coffee roasting business we have as a fun side business. It took my wife about 30 days to really get her comfortable with the new plan and daily strategy.

Here is my basic plan for making a stable income.
  • Sleep 8-10 hours a day
  • Create a very low-stress lifestyle. Cut out 100% of all drama.
  • Sleep, breath, eat, intraday and swing trading.
  • Nail down a solid strategy for trading. Test several strategies until it became apparent that I found the winning strategy and then stick to it.
  • Keep the trading risk, ultra-low. Leave big runners on the table and keep to a very strict strategy.
  • Scalp "futures" for the monthly income and take part of that income and put it into intraday trading news stocks and swing trading short and long term stocks.
  • Eat very healthy. Eat less than 40 carbs per 24 hours, and get on a keto diet for optimal mental clarity.
  • Excercise 1-3 hrs per day.
  • Shut out friends and neighbors who take your mind away from trading.
  • Basically create a daily life that is completely focused on day trading and studying trading.

I will not go into how much money I am making. I make enough to pay the bills and invest in stocks. But I can tell you that having a clean and focused lifestyle is critical for me. Maybe others can live the Lamborghini lifestyle and drink alcohol and have a busy social life. But for me I need 100% focus. Is this lifestyle sustainable for years to come? I don't know.

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  #36 (permalink)
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welcome @forestcall

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  #37 (permalink)
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xplorer View Post
@KyronC since I've noticed you joined the Elite membership here is a number of threads that I consider excellent that may help. Some of them are very long, such as the Scalper's Journey, but are also peppered with advice from really seasoned traders.











I just need to tell you something quickly. I come from a short premium options trading world, so when I google what strategies are available I get instant answers like Iron Condors and Strangles. People use these day in day out. I didn't know that futures were completely different. It's as though people are playing different games within the same game. I felt like people were withholding information from me, but little did I know at the time, there was no quick and simple answer.

That's why I was so snappy the last time we spoke, because I come from a place where people are using the same strategies day in day out.

Also, thanks for the links. I really appreciate it!

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  #38 (permalink)
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KyronC View Post
I felt like people were withholding information from me, but little did I know at the time, there was no quick and simple answer.


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  #39 (permalink)
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KyronC View Post
I just need to tell you something quickly. I come from a short premium options trading world, so when I google what strategies are available I get instant answers like Iron Condors and Strangles. People use these day in day out. I didn't know that futures were completely different. It's as though people are playing different games within the same game. I felt like people were withholding information from me, but little did I know at the time, there was no quick and simple answer.

I know virtually nothing about options but @Skidboot's shrewd post is about what a lot of people on this forum believe: there is no secret sauce. Except you.

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  #40 (permalink)
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Like the dad says... "to make something special you first have to believe it's special"

How bad do you want it?



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  #41 (permalink)
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I just spent the weekend trying to convince a new trader that the $3500 MA crossover strat they just bought will not work in the long run. He was only worried about making money and after going blue in the face trying to explain Risk and why you shouldn't try and trade 50+ contracts on something that hasn't been back tested or ran in a Live situation I finally gave up. The statement above is one of the best I've seen on here.

Once someone blows an account 3 or 4 times they then understand that preserving capital is #1

-P

I wholeheartedly agreed. I have seen 100's of beautifully backtested systems totally crash and burn when traded live, victims of curve-fitting and over-optimization. Trading also takes a ton of patience and more trial-and-error, and money management. That is why we've been able to stay afloat for so long: resisting the temptation to put all chips in.

~vmodus

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  #42 (permalink)
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~vmodus

The issue of why all of the fancy indicators don’t work is because of the large investors. Using https://www.bookmap.com/ combined with moving averages, resistance points, vwap and other core market concepts will dramatically change your success ratio.

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  #43 (permalink)
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KyronC View Post
Can anyone actually prove to me that they have been consistently making money with futures? (ES,RTY,NQ,GC,CL) So far I'm yet to meet someone who is making money who isn't trying to sell me something :/

Hi there, Kyron:

Did you receive any half-way satisfactory answer as yet?

The best way to find out if a guy or gal truly
knows how to trade live or not, is....

to ask to sit with them for one week
to see how a trade is selected, executed and concluded....

if you can see with your eyes, how each claimant operates
in real time, and if he/she can satisfy your criteria....

that is the best proof, real proof, much better than
any certified statement or any toy owned ....

What do you think, Kyron?

4tison@gmail.com

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  #44 (permalink)
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KyronC View Post
Can anyone actually prove to me that they have been consistently making money with futures? (ES,RTY,NQ,GC,CL) So far I'm yet to meet someone who is making money who isn't trying to sell me something :/

https://priceactiontradingsystem.com/

Mack is the ONLY seriously profitable trader not pushing anything (he has a manual for $99 but does not push it at all) - watch his daily YT vids on the ES....absolutely priceless....many traders have turned profitable after picking up his patterns/methods. He is the REAL deal.
You can read my trading journal of my Hang Seng futures journey if you wish where I apply PATS in real-time.
I would have saved myself thousands of $$$ and years of pain if I had just learnt these methods earlier.

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  #45 (permalink)
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Godzilla View Post
https://priceactiontradingsystem.com/

Mack is the ONLY seriously profitable trader not pushing anything (he has a manual for $99 but does not push it at all) - watch his daily YT vids on the ES....absolutely priceless....many traders have turned profitable after picking up his patterns/methods. He is the REAL deal.
You can read my trading journal of my Hang Seng futures journey if you wish where I apply PATS in real-time.
I would have saved myself thousands of $$$ and years of pain if I had just learnt these methods earlier.

What is his YT channel?
Tks!

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  #46 (permalink)
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forestcall View Post
What is his YT channel?
Tks!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQ3D2_YyX3BSalVUdZjkGRQ
pure gold.....you need to review a few dozen then it all starts to make sense..
buy at support ,sell at resistance
identify trending vs rangebound
spot the signal bar -> at the key-entry-point..
pull the trigger

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  #47 (permalink)
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For the heck of it I signup for his monthly subscription. Im always eager to learn from experienced Traders.


Godzilla View Post
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQ3D2_YyX3BSalVUdZjkGRQ
pure gold.....you need to review a few dozen then it all starts to make sense..
buy at support ,sell at resistance
identify trending vs rangebound
spot the signal bar -> at the key-entry-point..
pull the trigger


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  #48 (permalink)
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I have been trading the ES.. options, at first I tried to do spreads, but ran into margin issues. I have noticed when the Volubility is high I could trade a single long option , buy it, and ride the ES.. move and Sell for some profit. Just before the last down move the vol dried up and so did the strategy ( whipped sawed down my account ). Have to move farter out in time and deeper into the money ( more capital tied up ) Moved back to XSP options just in time for the down move. Evaluating my next move. Keep evaluating....

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  #49 (permalink)
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KyronC View Post
Can anyone actually prove to me that they have been consistently making money with futures? (ES,RTY,NQ,GC,CL) So far I'm yet to meet someone who is making money who isn't trying to sell me something :/

Greetings, KyronC,

I'm definitely convinced it's possible for people to systematically trade futures for profit even though I've only actually been trading live for one month.

I've been researching systematic trading in my own way for almost 10 years prior to risking a single cent. I'm an engineer professionally and believe in doing your homework up front. I also believe in having sound simulation practices and that having such practices can make trading a real account not "feel" any different than simulation trading. I've sim traded for about 6 months and invested nearly 10 years in developing my process. As a result, I have very high confidence in it, and will be able to stand by it when the waters get rough provided the system stays within statistical expectations. (Never trust anyone that says they can't or won't lose...Markets are incredibly nonstationary, meaning their underlying mechanics are not fixed.)

I transitioned to live trading last month and have attached my first broker statement. I began with a little over $10K in the account.

Your journey doesn't have to look like mine or anyone else's on this forum. Only you can really determine what is the right journey for you. I am a fan of automated approaches for several reasons:

1) You can hold that day job and not feel compelled to achieve an earnings quota or hit any forced target
2) You aren't tethered to the pc all day.
3) Your setup will be uber simple. My trading office setup is an iphone screen when I'm on the go or at most a laptop screen.
4) Systematic actively managed approaches tend to be noncorrelated to buy and hold / value investing and can complement larger portfolios quite well

I wish you the best of luck on your journey! If you are looking for a great treatise on automated trading, I can wholeheartedly recommend Kevin Davey's book on the subject. Please note I am not affiliated with Mr. Davey in any regard, but he has a lot of great content which illustrates the nuances for when "out of sample data" turns into in sample data based on steps the system developer may take in his or her analysis.

Best Wishes,

OUrocketman


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  #50 (permalink)
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Quoting 

Best Wishes

Thank you so much! I can't tell you how much it means to me to hear from a regular person. It was pretty naive of me to write this thread, so I really appreciate you reaching out!

Thanks again,
Kyron

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  #51 (permalink)
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KyronC View Post
Can anyone actually prove to me that they have been consistently making money with futures? (ES,RTY,NQ,GC,CL) So far I'm yet to meet someone who is making money who isn't trying to sell me something :/

Why the F...would anyone care about proving anything to you in a first place? It's YOUR job as a trader to be able to decipher amongst the fake and real. If you can’t tell the difference between the scam and real after you spend some time in someone’s trading room than you have no reason to be trading in a first place.

People that make money trading don’t need to prove anything to anyone unless they trying to market their service. And if you can’t tell by looking at their service if they real or not, then you have bigger issues….

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  #52 (permalink)
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Meklon View Post
Why the F...would anyone care about proving anything to you in a first place? It's YOUR job as a trader to be able to decipher amongst the fake and real. If you can’t tell the difference between the scam and real after you spend some time in someone’s trading room than you have no reason to be trading in a first place.

People that make money trading don’t need to prove anything to anyone unless they trying to market their service. And if you can’t tell by looking at their service if they real or not, then you have bigger issues….

Did you read the whole thread?

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  #53 (permalink)
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KyronC View Post
Did you read the whole thread?

I obviously did. And I am simply amazed by a level of immaturity on most of the answers and question on it. This place has really become a dump...most of the people advising or posting have very little understanding as to what it takes to be a consistent trader. And the worst part of that, they are not being prevented from doing so....

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  #54 (permalink)
sville sc
 
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Then you havent looked hard enough..Brian Watts trades live several times a week with full viewing of REAL account, trades taken and discussion and is consistently Very profitable..oh and he does it on MES on top of that and os NOT selling anything..he is a scale trader and while not my style ..he is very consistent AND profitable!

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  #55 (permalink)
Tokushima, Japan
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Tradovate + Tradingview
Trading: Futures + Stocks
 
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Posts: 57 since Jun 2020
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I think the pandemic has brought out some people that might otherwise not be trading.

My approach is complete dedication. My wife and I work as a team in that she helps me to keep a rigid schedule. We wake and drink freshly squeezed cucumber, citrus juice with added magnesium. We then eat 1 egg and rye toast. An hour later we go on a 1-2 hour run in the forest. For lunch I make a large super-food green shake followed by a hearty macro-biotic mostly vegan meal (i like eggs and meat). After lunch, I spend the day researching historical data for when every dip larger than 20 points occurred in the last 10 years. I study the math and logic and technical aspect of every known strategy, indicator, etc. to improve my overall grasp in order to improve my personal strategy. I have also spent a great deal of energy and time on risk reduction with small details such as multiple accounts with multiple brokers. I even coded in python a web-based risk to reward margin tracker that connects to Das Trader and NinjaTrader and this week I am working on a connection to TradingView. My strategy was almost entirely scalping and now has morphed into trend flow, hold for 10 min to 2 hours with very WIDE tick stop-loss to prevent getting stopped out of the trade. I go to sleep reading abut trading strategies and I even dream about trading. This is my way, I give my entire focus to trading. I was a Buddhist Tibetan monk for 8 years and I find Buddhist practice very similar to trading. Frankly speaking, I think to earn a real income that totally supports your family you need this kind of dedication. So when people half-ass trading and come to the conclusion that it does not work or they get tripped up from listening to so-called "guru's", this is why they do not see a steady income.

So you see, in my opinion, trading is very easy to succeed with total dedication and focus. Most will not want to give this trade the attention it deserves.

I am working on releasing my strategy and journey by posting an Elite Journal. I think people will be astonished by how much money you can earn if you give your complete focus to this craft.

Cheers! :-)

@KyronC


Meklon View Post
I obviously did. And I am simply amazed by a level of immaturity on most of the answers and question on it. This place has really become a dump...most of the people advising or posting have very little understanding as to what it takes to be a consistent trader. And the worst part of that, they are not being prevented from doing so....


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  #56 (permalink)
Colorado Springs, CO USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Amp Futures. CQG
Trading: Futures
 
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jrob6519 View Post
Then you havent looked hard enough..Brian Watts trades live several times a week with full viewing of REAL account, trades taken and discussion and is consistently Very profitable..oh and he does it on MES on top of that and os NOT selling anything..he is a scale trader and while not my style ..he is very consistent AND profitable!

Where do find Brian Watts?

Persistence! Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence.
Talent will not ... nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not ... Unrewarded genius is almost a proverb.
Education will not ... The world is full of educated derelicts.
Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent!
Calvin Coolidge
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  #57 (permalink)
Nottingham, United Kingdom
 
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forestcall View Post
I think the pandemic has brought out some people that might otherwise not be trading.

My approach is complete dedication. My wife and I work as a team in that she helps me to keep a rigid schedule. We wake and drink freshly squeezed cucumber, citrus juice with added magnesium. We then eat 1 egg and rye toast. An hour later we go on a 1-2 hour run in the forest. For lunch I make a large super-food green shake followed by a hearty macro-biotic mostly vegan meal (i like eggs and meat). After lunch, I spend the day researching historical data for when every dip larger than 20 points occurred in the last 10 years. I study the math and logic and technical aspect of every known strategy, indicator, etc. to improve my overall grasp in order to improve my personal strategy. I have also spent a great deal of energy and time on risk reduction with small details such as multiple accounts with multiple brokers. I even coded in python a web-based risk to reward margin tracker that connects to Das Trader and NinjaTrader and this week I am working on a connection to TradingView. My strategy was almost entirely scalping and now has morphed into trend flow, hold for 10 min to 2 hours with very WIDE tick stop-loss to prevent getting stopped out of the trade. I go to sleep reading abut trading strategies and I even dream about trading. This is my way, I give my entire focus to trading. I was a Buddhist Tibetan monk for 8 years and I find Buddhist practice very similar to trading. Frankly speaking, I think to earn a real income that totally supports your family you need this kind of dedication. So when people half-ass trading and come to the conclusion that it does not work or they get tripped up from listening to so-called "guru's", this is why they do not see a steady income.

So you see, in my opinion, trading is very easy to succeed with total dedication and focus. Most will not want to give this trade the attention it deserves.

I am working on releasing my strategy and journey by posting an Elite Journal. I think people will be astonished by how much money you can earn if you give your complete focus to this craft.

Cheers! :-)

@KyronC

If there's gold in the mountains it makes sense to ask the miners, not the guys selling the tools. I don't understand why people are being so aggressive towards me (not you), but I do now understand how it came across. Since then I've learnt a lot and I'm not in the same frame of mind. Thanks for you help, I really appreciate it.

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  #58 (permalink)
Nottingham, United Kingdom
 
Experience: Beginner
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Trading: MES, M2K
 
Posts: 24 since Jun 2020
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Meklon View Post
Why the F...would anyone care about proving anything to you in a first place? It's YOUR job as a trader to be able to decipher amongst the fake and real. If you can’t tell the difference between the scam and real after you spend some time in someone’s trading room than you have no reason to be trading in a first place.

People that make money trading don’t need to prove anything to anyone unless they trying to market their service. And if you can’t tell by looking at their service if they real or not, then you have bigger issues….

If there's gold in the mountains it makes sense to ask the miners, not the guys selling the tools. I don't understand why you were so aggressive towards me. If I was in your situation I'd help a young man out. Maybe brokerage statements might be too far, but I definitely wouldn't have responded like you did.

I understand how it came across but it was written out of frustration because of lack of information. Since then I've learnt a lot and I'm not in the same frame of mind.

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  #59 (permalink)
Zürich
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja Trader, IB, Stage 5, Investor RT
Broker: Stage 5, Market Delta,Rithmic,IB
Trading: Futures, Stocks
 
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KyronC View Post
Can anyone actually prove to me that they have been consistently making money with futures? (ES,RTY,NQ,GC,CL) So far I'm yet to meet someone who is making money who isn't trying to sell me something :/

Try TradeOutLoud, she is actually showing you how too

best wishes

brattebakken

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  #60 (permalink)
Tampa, FL/USA
 
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brattebakken View Post
Try TradeOutLoud, she is actually showing you how too

best wishes

brattebakken

Or read this review before you try TradeOutLoud.

https://www.tradingschools.org/reviews/trade-out-loud-with-anka-metcalf/

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  #61 (permalink)
Hayden + Idaho/USA
 
 
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KyronC View Post
Can anyone actually prove to me that they have been consistently making money with futures? (ES,RTY,NQ,GC,CL) So far I'm yet to meet someone who is making money who isn't trying to sell me something :/

Hi KyronC ... I'm not trying to sell anyone anything ... Yes, I am making money. Not a lot of money ... but I am making money ... which is what you asked. Cheers.

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  #62 (permalink)
Zürich
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Broker: Stage 5, Market Delta,Rithmic,IB
Trading: Futures, Stocks
 
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Comeback King View Post
Or read this review before you try TradeOutLoud.

https://www.tradingschools.org/reviews/trade-out-loud-with-anka-metcalf/

well, can be for somebody,
but she is showing the trades in live journaling and you can follow her trades. That is no nonsense.
But you have to commit and it is YOU that have to trade, but I have been with her 4 months, all profitable.

anyway, you will have to know yourself. I have tried hundreds, but she is the best- for me at least.

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  #63 (permalink)
Medellin, Colombia
 
 
Posts: 3 since Jan 2019
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As he just said, he posted this at an emotional moment, no need to attack the guy.

An advise that I could give you is to analyze yourself. A lot of people think they are not profitable because of a flawed strategy (which could be the case), but sometimes, they need to look inside to find the issue.

You might need to change your relationship with money since you get emotional trading your own money. This could be done by trading somebody else's money, getting into a prop firm or using a service like top step to get a funded account.

Furthermore, analyze and manage your expectations regarding how much money you can make and understand that profitablity in trading is a long process. Think of it like going to college, it's going to take time and you will have expenses before you can actually make some money and when people finally get a job in their field, most don't become millionaire overnight, they start making 50-75k a year.

Persevernce is key in life.

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  #64 (permalink)
Houston
 
 
Posts: 174 since Dec 2016
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KyronC View Post
Can anyone actually prove to me that they have been consistently growing their account with futures? (ES,RTY,NQ,GC,CL) So far I'm yet to meet someone who is making money who isn't trying to sell me something :/


KyronC,

Good question. Sorry I can't help you, I am a consistently break-even day trader. I am still trying to get profitable.

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  #65 (permalink)
Houston
 
 
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Meklon View Post
most of the people advising or posting have very little understanding as to what it takes to be a consistent trader.

Meklon,

Please explain what it takes to be a consistent profitable trader.

Thanks

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  #66 (permalink)
Market Chamois
Chicago, IL
 
Experience: None
Platform: NT8,NT7,TWS
Broker: InteractiveBrokers, S5T, IQFeed
Trading: The one I'm creating in the present....Index Futures mini/micro, ZF
 
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Meklon View Post
I obviously did. And I am simply amazed by a level of immaturity on most of the answers and question on it. This place has really become a dump...most of the people advising or posting have very little understanding as to what it takes to be a consistent trader. And the worst part of that, they are not being prevented from doing so....

Please do not call this place a dump. It is not true. Not even a little bit. I love this place and work hard with other members to add value, usually in my tired hours.

You have 50 posts in almost four years, honestly you cannot really know, you do not participate very much.

If to you it has little worth perhaps spend your time elsewhere.

Ron

...My calamity is My providence, outwardly it is fire and vengeance, but inwardly it is light and mercy...
The steed of this Valley is pain; and if there be no pain this journey will never end.
Buy Low And Sell High (read left to right or right to left....lol)
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  #67 (permalink)
Vendor
 
 
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KyronC View Post
Can anyone actually prove to me that they have been consistently growing their account with futures? (ES,RTY,NQ,GC,CL) So far I'm yet to meet someone who is making money who isn't trying to sell me something :/

I think there is a very small % of traders that profit consistently but even those traders will have losing days/weeks/months...

Anything that looks too good to be true is usually NOT true.

I am a broker and NOT a trader but observed and assisted many clients over the years.

I came up with what i feel is a concept that gives traders an edge and it is out there for free trial.

PM with any questions about Cannon Trading (800) 454-9572 (310) 859-9572. Trading commodity futures, forex and options involves substantial risk of loss. The recommendations contained in this post are of opinion only and do not guarantee any profits. These are risky markets and only risk capital should be used. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results.
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  #68 (permalink)
Market Chamois
Chicago, IL
 
Experience: None
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CannonTrading View Post
I think there is a very small % of traders that profit consistently but even those traders will have losing days/weeks/months...

Anything that looks too good to be true is usually NOT true.

I am a broker and NOT a trader but observed and assisted many clients over the years.

I came up with what i feel is a concept that gives traders an edge and it is out there for free trial.

Smartest one of the bunch...???.... You make money no matter what......lol.....

Ron

...My calamity is My providence, outwardly it is fire and vengeance, but inwardly it is light and mercy...
The steed of this Valley is pain; and if there be no pain this journey will never end.
Buy Low And Sell High (read left to right or right to left....lol)
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  #69 (permalink)
New York, USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart
Trading: RTY, ES, YM, NQ, CL, NG, GC, HG
 
Posts: 60 since Oct 2016
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Blash View Post
Please do not call this place a dump. It is not true. Not even a little bit. I love this place and work hard with other members to add value, usually in my tired hours.

You have 50 posts in almost four years, honestly you cannot really know, you do not participate very much.

If to you it has little worth perhaps spend your time elsewhere.

Ron

Ron,

The LAST thing I need is for you (or anyone else for this matter) to tell me where I should be spending my time. You don't know me, you never met me and your personal opinion of how much I contribute carries very little significance.

I have expressed my opinion based on the long time of observations and much material I have seen here. If you, as you say, care as much as you do about this community you would have done a better job addressing amateur posts from people who clearly do damage to new and inexperienced traders. Alas, you choose to berate me for honestly expressing my personal impression of this board and personal opinion. Apparently, your point of view must be taken as the ONLY proper one and opinion of others must be disregarded.

If anyone seeking to find better proof of what I have stated above he doesn't need to go any further. You have just confirmed it.

Mek.

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  #70 (permalink)
Dublin
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Tradestation, Ninjatrader
Broker: Ninjatrader Brokerage
Trading: YM, ES
 
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forestcall View Post
[*]Nail down a solid strategy for trading. Test several strategies until it became apparent that I found the winning strategy and then stick to it.

Care to elaborate further on your methodology for the above, lessons learned/pitfalls/ etc? Would be great.

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  #71 (permalink)
Market Chamois
Chicago, IL
 
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Blash View Post
Please do not call this place a dump. It is not true. Not even a little bit. I love this place and work hard with other members to add value, usually in my tired hours.

You have 50 posts in almost four years, honestly you cannot really know, you do not participate very much.

If to you it has little worth perhaps spend your time elsewhere.

Ron


Meklon View Post
Ron,

The LAST thing I need is for you (or anyone else for this matter) to tell me where I should be spending my time. You don't know me, you never met me and your personal opinion of how much I contribute carries very little significance.

I have expressed my opinion based on the long time of observations and much material I have seen here. If you, as you say, care as much as you do about this community you would have done a better job addressing amateur posts from people who clearly do damage to new and inexperienced traders. Alas, you choose to berate me for honestly expressing my personal impression of this board and personal opinion. Apparently, your point of view must be taken as the ONLY proper one and opinion of others must be disregarded.

If anyone seeking to find better proof of what I have stated above he doesn't need to go any further. You have just confirmed it.

Mek.

See first Bold section in above quoted...
My Job on this topic so far 2020-07-06_11-46-56



Second Bold section above...
I am not berating you. I was polite, truthful, accurate and calm.


Quoting 
be·rate
/bəˈrāt/

verb

scold or criticize (someone) angrily.

Ron

...My calamity is My providence, outwardly it is fire and vengeance, but inwardly it is light and mercy...
The steed of this Valley is pain; and if there be no pain this journey will never end.
Buy Low And Sell High (read left to right or right to left....lol)
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  #72 (permalink)
New York, USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart
Trading: RTY, ES, YM, NQ, CL, NG, GC, HG
 
Posts: 60 since Oct 2016
Thanks: 53 given, 175 received


Blash View Post
See first Bold section in above quoted...
My Job on this topic so far 2020-07-06_11-46-56



Second Bold section above...
I am not berating you. I was polite, truthful, accurate and calm.



Ron

I can hardly call it "calm" and "polite" telling someone (who actually have a paid membership) to leave just because you disagree with ones point of view. And by the way, I am very happy for your being proud of your little score board. However, this is NOT how I measure the accomplishments and success of the traders. REAL traders TRADE and those who make profit consistently hardly spend their entire free time on community boards. So please, try to at least be balanced in judgments you impose on others even if they don't chaise the public recognition through the forum ratings and post less frequently.

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  #73 (permalink)
DALEVILLE VA USA
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Oanda, NT8, TradingView
Broker: Oanda
 
Posts: 24 since Jan 2019
Thanks: 38 given, 27 received

It may be you need to take a step back and re-evaluate what strategy you are using. What's sad is the number of people who have responded to you, in my estimation, looking down the rim of their glasses in a condescending manner.

We gave our savings to OTA in desperation to pay my medical bills, and if i mention anything negative, there is always someone who feels the need to blame me and not their system. It is always my fault. Cant have anything to do with changing their core strategy after numerous years.

Nevertheless, I did read a couple of positive responses and you should consider them. One said try Currency Futures. But, Stay Away From Forex. I have traded Forex for over 5 years and have only lost money. But, because I can trade such a small amount, it allows me to stay in the game while still feeling the pinch. Paper does not do the same for me b/c my brain knows it is not real.

I wish you well. Don't give up. Find another avenue.

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  #74 (permalink)
Tokushima, Japan
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Tradovate + Tradingview
Trading: Futures + Stocks
 
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Posts: 57 since Jun 2020
Thanks: 65 given, 89 received

I worked as a software engineer for start-ups for over 20 years. Learning something new always feels uncomfortable. There are so many different proven strategies (proven in terms of math and logic). The more strategies you study and tear apart, the more you will understand your own strategy. I would sincerely suggest staying away from any Guru that charges more than $50-$100 for videos on how to trade. Instead, roll up your sleeves and install random indicators and study them and learn how they help you make decisions. Indicators should only be used IF they are part of your own personal strategy. When you make an entry or exit decision what are the different data points you used to make an entry or exit? If the indicator does not play a direct role in your data points then remove it from your charts.

My advice may not be useful to many people. I am a 100% all-in type of person. I trade as my main source of income. I do futures about 80% and stocks by about 20%. Many people have a real job and trading is just a side income or hobby. For me, it is something I take very sincerely. I am an always ON type of person. When I wake at 3am to take a pee, I am thinking about trading. I adjust my entire life, interactions with people, and my family around trading and keeping myself focused. If I am being distracted by something or someone I remove that obstacle. In my opinion, to make $200k+ a year this is the type of focus needed.

Sorry, I dont think this is the answer you were looking for. Maybe I am a little strange or overtly focused on trading.

Cheers!


KillerJukeBox View Post
Care to elaborate further on your methodology for the above, lessons learned/pitfalls/ etc? Would be great.


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  #75 (permalink)
Nottingham, United Kingdom
 
Experience: Beginner
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Trading: MES, M2K
 
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Meklon View Post
leave

If you're not going to be constructive like many other have, I'd like you to leave please. I don't have any authority but it just seems like you're itching for confrontation. Can you please leave so there's only relevant information on this thread that's going to help me and many others.

Thanks,
Kyron

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  #76 (permalink)
Chicago
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Posts: 1 since Apr 2017
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I obviously do not post (I do not have time... family, kids, trading). I have been trading for 15 years (stocks/options, FX, Futures). It took me 10 years to get to consistency. From BMT to FIO this community has enormous value (in my opinion).

This place has a wealth of knowledge. Truly like no other as it relates to futures trading (my opinion).

Only those who choose to persevere and find the wealth, achieve the right of passage to consistency.

Thanks to all who do their best to make futures.io the community it is. New and old, haters and givers, Big and small.

ENP

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  #77 (permalink)
Nottingham, United Kingdom
 
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Meklon View Post
Hey Kyron....you will go far (NOT) with this attitude. I have seen many like you over the past 22 years. Mind your own business little fellow and do not insert yourself into conversations you have no part of. I am done talking to you. Go search for some "proof" of others making money. Seems like this will be you permanent state on this journey.

Haha, nice one. Take care of yourself buddy.

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  #78 (permalink)
Houston
 
 
Posts: 174 since Dec 2016
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Meklon View Post
Hey Kyron....you will go far (NOT) with this attitude. I have seen many like you over the past 22 years. Mind your own business little fellow and do not insert yourself into conversations you have no part of. I am done talking to you. Go search for some "proof" of others making money. Seems like this will be you permanent state on this journey.

LMFAO HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH "Mind your own business little fellow and do not insert yourself into conversations you have no part of".

This is some funny shit. LMFAO HAHAHAHAHHAH

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  #79 (permalink)
Argyle Texas
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader, Jigsaw
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I hope that I can share my thoughts and sound sincere. Most of us come to Big Mike's to help each other in our trading journey. The question should probably not be about what others are achieving but what goals you are able to set and obtain. In the Market Wizard books those guys lost it all many times only to get back up and try until they succeed.

You have to choose a method and make it your own. Only you can decide what is comfortable.

Here are a few simple goals that might work.

* set a goal for how many ticks of loss to stop each day.
* set a profit goal of 1-4 ticks a day for one month.
* set a goal earning $100/day for six months.
* set a goal of increasing the account by 1k per month for one year

Small steps can build confidence in your method. If you make mistakes just keep trying.

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  #80 (permalink)
Houston
 
 
Posts: 174 since Dec 2016
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KyronC View Post
Haha, nice one. Take care of yourself buddy.

KyronC,

Here is a tip because everybody else bullshitting with you. Noone is going to show you that they making money trading unless you PAY them. That is right. If I had a winning trading method, I probably charge you like $20K to share it with you, maybe $30K.

You might as well roll up your sleeve and figure out how to trade and give up some cash to pay someone to teach you or start buying trading courses to learn and lose alot of sleep. It is what it is buddy. No freebies. NOONE giving game for FREE. Been there and done that. WASTE OF TIME.

If you want to learn, pay, and stop bullshitting. Research quality trading material/books/course/mentors and get ready to pay to learn.

There you go.

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  #81 (permalink)
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jpygbp View Post
Market Wizard book

I read Market Wizards over the last couple of weeks in June and it changed my outlook on trading. I've really learnt a lot from it and it's what I really needed. The whole book basically answered my original post which was nice.

Thanks for the advice,
Kyron

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  #82 (permalink)
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KyronC View Post
I read Market Wizards over the last couple of weeks in June and it changed my outlook on trading. I've really learnt a lot from it and it's what I really needed. The whole book basically answered my original post which was nice.

Thanks for the advice,
Kyron

Market Wizards will not teach you how to make money, it just for entertainment, you need trading skills. And you get that by proper training. You have to pay for proper training.

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  #83 (permalink)
Nottingham, United Kingdom
 
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goodoboy View Post
Proper training

How do I know if it is proper training? I'm smart enough to know complete scams, but the guy I'm learning from now has a couple of terrible reviews, but his strategies are similar to that I've heard online, even on this website. He's not one of those millionaire overnight or 100% win rates type of guys, he seems like a person with a lot of integrity. Really emphasises the importance of staying small and disciplined, and given that I've only been in this world a couple of months it's hard to tell the difference between a snake and a lion.

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  #84 (permalink)
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KyronC View Post
I read Market Wizards over the last couple of weeks in June and it changed my outlook on trading. I've really learnt a lot from it and it's what I really needed. The whole book basically answered my original post which was nice.

Thanks for the advice,
Kyron

On a seriouse note...if you want REAL advice - here it is:

1. Introduce yourself to Market Profile (you don't need to become an expert)
2. Introduce yourself to Order Flow (you DO need to become an expert)
3. Learn to understand what moves market (hint - this is NOT news)
4. Understand market context and apply your understanding to recognize repeatable setups in the Order Flow (based on the context).
5. CONTROL your losses.

It WILL take time and you WILL need a mentor. But this is the ONLY way to become consistently profitable trader.

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  #85 (permalink)
Miami FL/US
 
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Meklon View Post
On a seriouse note...if you want REAL advice - here it is:

1. Introduce yourself to Market Profile (you don't need to become an expert)
2. Introduce yourself to Order Flow (you DO need to become an expert)
3. Learn to understand what moves market (hint - this is NOT news)
4. Understand market context and apply your understanding to recognize repeatable setups in the Order Flow (based on the context).
5. CONTROL your losses.

It WILL take time and you WILL need a mentor. But this is the ONLY way to become consistently profitable trader.

Well said. Good advice.

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  #86 (permalink)
Houston
 
 
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KyronC View Post
How do I know if it is proper training? I'm smart enough to know complete scams, but the guy I'm learning from now has a couple of terrible reviews, but his strategies are similar to that I've heard online, even on this website. He's not one of those millionaire overnight or 100% win rates type of guys, he seems like a person with a lot of integrity. Really emphasises the importance of staying small and disciplined, and given that I've only been in this world a couple of months it's hard to tell the difference between a snake and a lion.

KyronC,

How to know if a guy you learning from now is a complete scam?

1. Ask him to see if past 200 trades documentation.
2. Trading 100-200 of his setups with small size.
3. Start a new thread and ask more experienced traders if the guy is scam or not or get this forum opinion on what it is your are learning.

After about 50 to 100 trades, you will know if what he is teaching fits your personality or not.

I am in the same boat as you buddy, learning from Al Brooks. I take his setups and back/forward test them.

Post who you learning from man, let people here with years of experience save you time and money. Do not be secretive about what you are doing. Tell people exactly who you learning from and what you are doing. For example, I am learning from Al Brooks, and so far they guy is all over the damn place, but I am still working my way through the trading course.

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  #87 (permalink)
Nottingham, United Kingdom
 
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goodoboy View Post
KyronC,

How to know if a guy you learning from now is a complete scam?

1. Ask him to see if past 200 trades documentation.
2. Trading 100-200 of his setups with small size.
3. Start a new thread and ask more experienced traders if the guy is scam or not or get this forum opinion on what it is your are learning.

After about 50 to 100 trades, you will know if what he is teaching fits your personality or not.

I am in the same boat as you buddy, learning from Al Brooks. I take his setups and back/forward test them.

Post who you learning from man, let people here with years of experience save you time and money. Do not be secretive about what you are doing. Tell people exactly who you learning from and what you are doing. For example, I am learning from Al Brooks, and so far they guy is all the damn place, but I am still working my way through the trading course.

Okay, thank you!

I'm learning from an Australian guy called Ray Freeman, aka Iamadaytrader. He's taught everyone to stick to trend following strategies right at the beginning to get familiar with the markets and go from there.

He teaches a bunch of strategies both trend following and reversals, but his favourite is called the 34B. It's where you have 3 charts open at different time frames (short, medium, and long... Renko: 2:1, 4:2, and 8:4). Using an overlapping short and long term stochastic and looking for what looks like slingshots to increase trade probability.

You can only place a trade when there is a bullish/bearish trend (fanning out of EMA's) on 2 or 3 charts and you buy and sell when the price bounces off of the 34 EMA (Retracements/trend following) and you get 3 candles confirming the trade (Getting in on the 3rd, with a 4 candle stop loss).

He has shown backtests, but they could easily be manipulated. I've been using a sim account and it was going pretty well at first but over the past 2 weeks not so much. I could solve this problem by using more trade set-ups to smoothen out my equity curve, and I remember looking at something someone shared in this thread, the guy was talking about diversification of markets and set-ups.

Anyway, that's one. But this is my problem, should I be learning the other strategies if he's not legit.

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  #88 (permalink)
New York City + NY/United States
 
 
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In my opinion there is a sliding scale to scam severity. I think trading methods like Al Brooks or Mack's PAT are still on the scam spectrum, but towards the less severe side. The other side of the scale would be an upfront cost vendor that for $5000 will make trades for you.

The reason I consider Al Brooks and Mack to be a scam, or at least a method to avoid is because replicating success in their methods require a very high win rate, something that is near impossible. For example Mack's 2nd failed entry setups are advertised in one of his PDFs as a 9/10 times of success. For anyone that has actually attempted this trading method over several months knows that 9/10 is impossible to hit consistently. After several months, consecutive losers will leave the strategy breakeven at best, or a blown up account at worst.

For a method that is marketed as no bs, easy to follow, and increased chances of success, I'd wager that fewer than 1 out of 10 students make it work, probably not even 1 out of 100.

If only 1 out of 100 students in a college program were able to get a job, wouldn't the school be a scam?
goodoboy View Post
KyronC,

How to know if a guy you learning from now is a complete scam?

1. Ask him to see if past 200 trades documentation.
2. Trading 100-200 of his setups with small size.
3. Start a new thread and ask more experienced traders if the guy is scam or not or get this forum opinion on what it is your are learning.

After about 50 to 100 trades, you will know if what he is teaching fits your personality or not.

I am in the same boat as you buddy, learning from Al Brooks. I take his setups and back/forward test them.

Post who you learning from man, let people here with years of experience save you time and money. Do not be secretive about what you are doing. Tell people exactly who you learning from and what you are doing. For example, I am learning from Al Brooks, and so far they guy is all over the damn place, but I am still working my way through the trading course.

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  #89 (permalink)
Houston
 
 
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KyronC View Post
Okay, thank you!

I'm learning from an Australian guy called Ray Freeman, aka Iamadaytrader. He's taught everyone to stick to trend following strategies right at the beginning to get familiar with the markets and go from there.

He teaches a bunch of strategies both trend following and reversals, but his favourite is called the 34B. It's where you have 3 charts open at different time frames (short, medium, and long... Renko: 2:1, 4:2, and 8:4). Using an overlapping short and long term stochastic and looking for what looks like slingshots to increase trade probability.

You can only place a trade when there is a bullish/bearish trend (fanning out of EMA's) on 2 or 3 charts and you buy and sell when the price bounces off of the 34 EMA (Retracements/trend following) and you get 3 candles confirming the trade (Getting in on the 3rd, with a 4 candle stop loss).

He has shown backtests, but they could easily be manipulated. I've been using a sim account and it was going pretty well at first but over the past 2 weeks not so much. I could solve this problem by using more trade set-ups to smoothen out my equity curve, and I remember looking at something someone shared in this thread, the guy was talking about diversification of markets and set-ups.

Anyway, that's one. But this is my problem, should I be learning the other strategies if he's not legit.

KyronC,

I recommend you do exactly like Ray Freeman teach you to do and take your input out of the equation.

Let me tell you something. You paid Ray for a service, now do exactly what he is teaches and nothing different. This way you know if what he is teaching is working or not and you do not have skewed trade metrics. You need to be journaling your trades and getting screen shots per trade, and make sure Ray agree with trades you take or have issue with. DO NOT add your emotion to the trade or your own little this and that. Nope, do what Ray tell you to do for 100 trades and see if you calculate positive expectancy.

Also, losses will come, it called drawdown, just keep on going. Forget about the losses, who cares. Get you 100 to 200 trades, then you can see if what Ray is teaching you is scam or not.

The only way to know if someone is legit or not, is to track your trades over XXX amount of trades, but you have to be disciplined and follow Ray rules and methods, no bullshitting around missing trades, hesitating, not holding trades, little stop losses, and mistakes. Take each trade exactly how Ray tell you to. Mistakes will happen, but if a mistake trade turned to a winner trade, you need to document that winner.

You paid Ray, so he is the boss now, forget all this other bullshit. You have to do what Ray teach you until you see after 100 to 200 trades no money is made. THEN you can say "Well, I tried Ray methods, now I go somewhere else".

That is it. You have to follow Ray teachings now, and no messing around. You follow those trades, document them and ask questions. Stop worrying about the losses, keep going, you need data and stats right now to see if Ray is bullshitting or if what he teaches can make your profitable and you can grow as trader from that.

If you do not follow exactly what Ray tell you to do, do not go around the internet bad mouthing Ray when you losing money not doing what the man tell you to do.

So again, forget all this other bullshit, Ray is the boss now, you follow him.

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  #90 (permalink)
Lansdale, PA
 
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Meklon View Post
On a seriouse note...if you want REAL advice - here it is:

1. Introduce yourself to Market Profile (you don't need to become an expert)
2. Introduce yourself to Order Flow (you DO need to become an expert)
3. Learn to understand what moves market (hint - this is NOT news)
4. Understand market context and apply your understanding to recognize repeatable setups in the Order Flow (based on the context).
5. CONTROL your losses.

It WILL take time and you WILL need a mentor. But this is the ONLY way to become consistently profitable trader.

This was some great Advice Given..




However, I wouldn't say you only need to be at a Basic Level of Comprehension for each as well.

Honestly, The answers are all here...


How determined are you to spend hours watching Markets unfold ?

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  #91 (permalink)
Dublin
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Tradestation, Ninjatrader
Broker: Ninjatrader Brokerage
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forestcall View Post
I worked as a software engineer for start-ups for over 20 years. Learning something new always feels uncomfortable. There are so many different proven strategies (proven in terms of math and logic). The more strategies you study and tear apart, the more you will understand your own strategy. I would sincerely suggest staying away from any Guru that charges more than $50-$100 for videos on how to trade. Instead, roll up your sleeves and install random indicators and study them and learn how they help you make decisions. Indicators should only be used IF they are part of your own personal strategy. When you make an entry or exit decision what are the different data points you used to make an entry or exit? If the indicator does not play a direct role in your data points then remove it from your charts.

My advice may not be useful to many people. I am a 100% all-in type of person. I trade as my main source of income. I do futures about 80% and stocks by about 20%. Many people have a real job and trading is just a side income or hobby. For me, it is something I take very sincerely. I am an always ON type of person. When I wake at 3am to take a pee, I am thinking about trading. I adjust my entire life, interactions with people, and my family around trading and keeping myself focused. If I am being distracted by something or someone I remove that obstacle. In my opinion, to make $200k+ a year this is the type of focus needed.

Sorry, I dont think this is the answer you were looking for. Maybe I am a little strange or overtly focused on trading.

Cheers!

Thanks, I have a similar background, I'm an IT professional working for a big US data analytics firm. Taught myself enough c# and java to get by.

I've been doing some of what you describe, building strategies in ninjatrader 8 with limited success. I deffo need to spend some more time on it. I'm curious when you are doing your backtesting/walkforward testing etc; at what point you would consider your strategies successful enough to run, Are you looking at Sortino ratio and ulcer ratio/max DD, or what's your preferred metrics here?

Don't you think there's a limited amount of edge to be had in trading lagging indicators based on technicals?

Have you ever explored scraping data feeds, using natural language processing to determine whether the language used/ topic etc is bullish or bearish and using that for signals?
I've been thinking about putting something together ever since Speculator Seth posted this chart a while back:


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  #92 (permalink)
Georgia
 
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https://twitter.com/verniman
this person is making money almost every day, and he posts every trade on twitter

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  #93 (permalink)
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xinm View Post
https://twitter.com/verniman
this person is making money almost every day, and he posts every trade on twitter


Yes.. However he was a floor trader and educated himself on multiple aspects of Market Theory.


You do require a foundational level of knowledge, prior to really absorbing the true talent of a practitioner in their element.


Jim Dalton didn't click for me until I immersed myself in his work for months.


Plus, on a side note..

I trade Monthly Options and have finally have a track record. You don't need to day trade Futures to make a sizable income in the markets.

I actually lost money trading futures, but now understand my own demons. I'm back on the path to slow daily gains, but I wouldn't call myself a profitable Futures Trader.


Everything else does take experience and education.

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  #94 (permalink)
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KyronC View Post
Okay, thank you!

I'm learning from an Australian guy called Ray Freeman, aka Iamadaytrader. He's taught everyone to stick to trend following strategies right at the beginning to get familiar with the markets and go from there.

He teaches a bunch of strategies both trend following and reversals, but his favourite is called the 34B. It's where you have 3 charts open at different time frames (short, medium, and long... Renko: 2:1, 4:2, and 8:4). Using an overlapping short and long term stochastic and looking for what looks like slingshots to increase trade probability.

You can only place a trade when there is a bullish/bearish trend (fanning out of EMA's) on 2 or 3 charts and you buy and sell when the price bounces off of the 34 EMA (Retracements/trend following) and you get 3 candles confirming the trade (Getting in on the 3rd, with a 4 candle stop loss).

He has shown backtests, but they could easily be manipulated. I've been using a sim account and it was going pretty well at first but over the past 2 weeks not so much. I could solve this problem by using more trade set-ups to smoothen out my equity curve, and I remember looking at something someone shared in this thread, the guy was talking about diversification of markets and set-ups.

Anyway, that's one. But this is my problem, should I be learning the other strategies if he's not legit.

Here is your problem, right there. Everything you have described above. I guarantee you will loose money following this method. Stick to TREND strategies, eh? Did he also tell you when NOT to trade? Markets are NOT in trend mode 75% of the time, they are consolidating. Besides, everything he tells you to use are LAGGING indicators and in roughly 35-70% of the time you are too late for the move.

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  #95 (permalink)
Legendary Market Wizard
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Meklon View Post
On a seriouse note...if you want REAL advice - here it is:

1. Introduce yourself to Market Profile (you don't need to become an expert)
2. Introduce yourself to Order Flow (you DO need to become an expert)
3. Learn to understand what moves market (hint - this is NOT news)
4. Understand market context and apply your understanding to recognize repeatable setups in the Order Flow (based on the context).
5. CONTROL your losses.

It WILL take time and you WILL need a mentor. But this is the ONLY way to become consistently profitable trader.

This is pretty much my formula, spot on. I wouldn't deem that I know every profitable trader's methods enough to declare that it's the ONLY way, but the above is certainly one way, and a formula that is successful for some.

I'd add that in order to do the above, or any method, successfully, you must cultivate a healthy winning attitude. That is, never blame losses on anything external, think probabilistically, never get too high or low emotionally, be objective. Mark Douglas "Trading in the Zone" is IMO maybe the only book on psychology you need.

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  #96 (permalink)
Legendary Market Wizard
Georgia, US
 
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xinm View Post
https://twitter.com/verniman
this person is making money almost every day, and he posts every trade on twitter

One thing about verniman that you'll notice if you read enough of his posts is that he almost never tries to pick tops and bottoms. He waits, waits, waits, and then fires. It's how successful professionals trade. They don't buy a market which is collapsing and catch the bottom. They need to see something that tells them they are not alone in the fight, and that others with more money are likely to pay up or hit lower than they did. It's the "see it" part of this tweet.

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  #97 (permalink)
New York NY/United States
 
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The Hard Truth is that no one actually knows if any retail traders actually make money over the long term (5 or more years)

To actually know that a trader makes money consistently you need at least the following:

1) Two full sequential years of verified sequential daily broker statements/annual broker statements with very few gaps in trading days
(So you can see the year over year performance)
2) Summary Statistics: Expectancy, MAX DD, Net Profit/MAX DD, Average MFE/MAE
3) Additional years of verified daily broker statements/annual broker statements covering a wide variety of different volatility levels and different market regimes (including if available flash crash days, limit up/limit down days, market halt days).

*Important: all broker statements must be audited and signed by a regulated third party.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Take the following below with 'a big grain of salt'

The generally accepted thinking is that about 95% retail traders lose money over the long term
If you look at just retail traders who trade without having a robust statistical trading process that number is 100%

Of the 5% who make money, about 80% trade mechanical systems and 20% do discretionary trading
Again no stats here just compiled what I've read, seen, and heard over the last 20 years.

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  #98 (permalink)
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KyronC View Post
Can anyone actually prove to me that they have been consistently growing their account with futures? (ES,RTY,NQ,GC,CL) So far I'm yet to meet someone who is making money who isn't trying to sell me something :/

Hi Kyron,

Before I go deep into explaining what I did to become profitable, all for free, could you please share how long have you been studying and practicing charts or paper trading? How many hours of efforts you are honestly putting in regularly not necessarily everyday? What markets have you studied, what type of trading you have studied and what market do you think will suit you best and why?

I've become profitable for last few months, knock on wood, using very simple techniques which I'll share here. You will be surprised to know how easy it is to make money in the market once you figured out what are the fronts you need to work on.

Enjoy!

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  #99 (permalink)
Nottingham, United Kingdom
 
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RockywoBalboa View Post
Hi Kyron,

Before I go deep into explaining what I did to become profitable, all for free, could you please share how long have you been studying and practicing charts or paper trading? How many hours of efforts you are honestly putting in regularly not necessarily everyday? What markets have you studied, what type of trading you have studied and what market do you think will suit you best and why?

I've become profitable for last few months, knock on wood, using very simple techniques which I'll share here. You will be surprised to know how easy it is to make money in the market once you figured out what are the fronts you need to work on.

Enjoy!

This week is my 9th week in the world of futures trading, and I've been paper trading for 4 weeks. I haven't been keeping track of the number of hours I've been putting in, but it's an absolute minimum of 2 hours per day, both through my mentors google drive/Youtube Vids & here on FIO.

I've been studying MES because of my account size, but I check M2K, CL, & 6E post US session to see how they differ from MES and the number of potential trade set-ups during that day. I don't plan on doing a bit of everything yet, just looking.

I've been studying trend following strategies (retracements to EMAs) using Renko charts holding trades from a couple of mins to 30, basically, until I have a signal that tells me the trend is ending. I'm currently learning about trading s/r levels because I haven't been getting as many trade set-ups lately, and I keep hearing people using s/r strategies, so it makes sense to at least learn about them.

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  #100 (permalink)
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KyronC View Post
This week is my 9th week in the world of futures trading, and I've been paper trading for 4 weeks. I haven't been keeping track of the number of hours I've been putting in, but it's an absolute minimum of 2 hours per day, both through my mentors google drive/Youtube Vids & here on FIO.

I've been studying MES because of my account size, but I check M2K, CL, & 6E post US session to see how they differ from MES and the number of potential trade set-ups during that day. I don't plan on doing a bit of everything yet, just looking.

I've been studying trend following strategies (retracements to EMAs) using Renko charts holding trades from a couple of mins to 30, basically, until I have a signal that tells me the trend is ending. I'm currently learning about trading s/r levels because I haven't been getting as many trade set-ups lately, and I keep hearing people using s/r strategies, so it makes sense to at least learn about them.

Hi Kyron,

With only 10 weeks in to the trading, I would say you are very new to the trading world. It will help you greatly, trust me on this fella, if you wouldn't pay too much attention to why things aren't working 100% of the times, nothing is 100% in this trading world. If your strategy works 50% of the times, this would be a good start and with more experience you yourself will be able to tweak to make it 70-90%.

What you are learning from the Australian guy seems a good approach to me, as far as you get 3-4 opportunities about everyday and at least 3 times a week, you can do the math. On MES, this strategy should be able to give you on an average profit of 100-200$ (after commissions) about everyday with only one contract. Then its all about either moving to ES or scaling MES first and then moving to ES, whatever path you go with.

I've traded penny stocks, mid-cap stocks, options on mid and large caps before finally I settled with Futures from last 7-8 months purely because of tax benefits. Otherwise, I had been good with day trading options as well, just long calls and puts. I've total experience of 4-5 years with real money trading making sometime, losing sometime and the cycle goes on and on. So you are hearing from a amateur trader but with a wide spectra of experience.

Here is what I would like to share from my little experience:

The very first thing you have to find out is what type of trader you are. This means what you will be comfortable with. Scalping, swinging within the the day, swinging over couple of days or investing. I swing within the day (which means I like trades which should last anywhere from 15-20 minutes to couple of hours within the day), I do scalp but its not my first preference and I seldom does it. I trade the trend within the day (like the Australian guy is teaching you). Like today, ES was swinging 15 points up and down, I could had sold the tops and bought the bottoms on last two touches making around $400 easily on 2-4 contracts, but I don't trade what I don't like. I've prepared for solid two years to just let price do what I predicted and not enter the trade, this was to control the impulsiveness and really train in realtime how accurate is my pre-market preparation. I wanted to trade the break above or below the flag, which didn't happen so I didn't take more than one trade. The one I took, I was expecting the break to upside after buying the base but it didn't so I exited the trade for a tiny profit. We are not going to make target money everyday.

Do a pre-market study and try to chose a direction based of daily and/or 4hrs charts. Let market shake out for first 15-20 minutes after open, sometimes 5 minutes would be enough, this will come with experience. Once you have watched market for enough time (it took me about 2 years as I've a full time job as well and it was not feasible to watch market in action everyday with a day job), I would say 4-6 months should be enough depending on person's learning capability.

Then mark the consolidation range and trade break of top or bottom after confirmation only. Generally, market break in the direction of 4hrs and daily charts as bigger time frames control what will happen during coming few days. You can use 9EMA, 8EMA along with breakout. This is the simplest and in use by most day traders. Check some youtube videos, bullishbears.com have explained it best. They use it for stocks but this can be used with any instrument in this world that can be traded.

At last I would say don't be eager to be profitable in few weeks or months. This market has its dark side and to beat the dark siders, we have to be trading with them and not against them. Trading against them can also make money, but that should be with quick in and outs, as done in scalping. There are millions of ways to trade, you just have to find one and become a master of only one.

Last, don't listen to anyone that indicators are lagging. Issue is trying to predict what price will do based of indicators. Price is the king and master price action, then use indicator like Stochastic, MACD, RSI to see what price is doing in general. Never force on what indicator is doing, this will always lead you to lose money.

In trading it is more about learning to control impulsiveness and psychology than what strategy I should use to trade.

Focus on only one instrument, after looking at all main futures I can say ES is probably the best and starting with MES is the right approach.

Last but not the least, PLEASE DON'T BUY any indicator from anyone. No indicator makes us profitable, its how we trade and what we trade makes us profitable.

Happy Trading!

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