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Is anyone actually making money?


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Is anyone actually making money?

  #151 (permalink)
goodoboy
Houston
 
Posts: 380 since Dec 2016
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TWDsje View Post
If they provided all of their trades during the period then for sure you'd have all the information you'd need to make a decision, including how much risk they're taking on.

But I have never seen it. Not 5 years worth, and certainly not anyone trying to sell something.

This is really just about teaching people how to evaluate a strategy, because there's a lot of dirty tricks the charlatans are using out there that are very effective at convincing people. The biggest one I see is making money by taking on excessive risk. Strategies that fit this category would include strategies where your target is much closer than your stop (if there's a stop at all), doubling down on losers, or martingale strategies where you risk more and more even when you're losing. Such strategies can result in really high winrates, but risk catastrophic losses. I find this particularly common among combine traders. They'll get funded using excessive risk, and then blow the account later. I know some individuals that have been funded over 6 times!

Many probably stumble upon these kinds of strategies to protect their ego. You'll find that the narcissistic ones almost always do this sort of thing. They don't want to be wrong, and so they take on extra risk to avoid having to face the reality. However, it's also just a really easy way to develop a following on YouTube or to sell a service. To new traders it appears like you're winning all the time. You can get away with it for a long time too. Years even. When that bad day comes along it can just be dismissed as a mistake. The reality though is that the blowing up is an inherent property of a strategy that has no real edge.

TWDsje,

You sound like you been trading for awhile. LOL. I will be honest and I was one of those traders scalping with big risk, small reward. My risk was about $300 per trade and my reward was between the $40 to $150 range for that $300 risk. And yes, my win rate was high, around 92%. But guess what, one or two losses would take away about 4 days of work. fast paced way to trade, but I had to trade alot to get that win rate up.

Now I plan my trades setups for minimum R:R of 1 and learn to wait for a cheaper entry.

I am currently in TopStepTrader, I was recently funded after 3 months of trying. Went up about $1600 in 3 days, then hit drawdown and a few mistakes and failed out. Now I take some time detail my trading plan and trade setups.

I can tell you this. It takes time. Markets conditions will change. Trade Management regardless of market conditions is important. It is important to KEEP going and trade everyday straight for 2 years. The eyes must see different situations. Correct practice is the best practice.

I am not consistent profitability, but what i think helps me is getting good training, journaling trades, studying, and taking trades and just getting experience

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  #152 (permalink)
 
syswizard's Avatar
 syswizard 
Philadelphia PA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: Ironbeam, Rithmic
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planetkill View Post
Picking up pennies in front of a steam roller always ends the same.

Well, not in the case of Navinder Sarao.....he was an incredible scalper. Of course, he wanted revenge against the bots/algos, so he created one himself...and then got caught.
Heckuva story, heckuva book:
https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/navinder-sarao-convicted-market-manipulator-flash-crash-book-excerpt-liam-vaughan-2020-5-1029208473

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  #153 (permalink)
 SpeculatorSeth   is a Vendor
 
Posts: 780 since Apr 2016
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goodoboy View Post
TWDsje,

You sound like you been trading for awhile. LOL.

While I've been in the finance world since the 2008 crisis, I've only been actively day trading for 4 years. The advantage that I try to have is through community. I troll the forums a lot, run my daily Speculatorseth livestream, and chat on discord. So I come into contact with awide variety of retail traders and information.

That's why this particular issue just grates on me so much. I've watched a lot of people lose money with these kinds of strategies, and I find it really difficult to convince newer traders of the danger in them.

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  #154 (permalink)
jtradeZ
Charlotte North Carolina
 
Posts: 2 since Jul 2020
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sequential View Post
I just came across Matt and his YT channel yesterday evening. Do you know if any profitable traders who use Bookmap other than FT71 and have a room or live stream? Thank you for posting this information.


Bubba1 View Post
There are many profitable consistent traders of stocks and futures. You just need to know where to find them. They are young, they work, and they are focused. You can find a few of them on Twitch. Yesterday, Matt, a funded $150k trader at Topstep was down $2900, took a break, and made $7,000 to finish up the day with profits over $4,000.

jtradezdays is another consistent trader. You see his trading live, you see his face and his focus.

I can lead you to many more but that should do for a start.

Hey Bubba1 thanks for the mention. That's actually my Instagram name. Twitch name is just "jtradeZ". Live trades everyday with Live P&L. It's Free and all are welcome.

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  #155 (permalink)
goodoboy
Houston
 
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TWDsje View Post
While I've been in the finance world since the 2008 crisis, I've only been actively day trading for 4 years. The advantage that I try to have is through community. I troll the forums a lot, run my daily Speculatorseth livestream, and chat on discord. So I come into contact with awide variety of retail traders and information.

That's why this particular issue just grates on me so much. I've watched a lot of people lose money with these kinds of strategies, and I find it really difficult to convince newer traders of the danger in them.

TWDsje,

I agree with you. This is why I try really hard to setup up my trades, with minimum R:R equal or greater than 1 and I wait for targets. Sometimes price and market conditions does not care about my profit target and, I have to re-think a new profit target, making the R:R less than 1. This is rare.

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  #156 (permalink)
 
Joseph Connors's Avatar
 Joseph Connors 
Colorado Springs, CO USA
 
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goodoboy View Post
TWDsje,

I agree with you. This is why I try really hard to setup up my trades, with minimum R:R equal or greater than 1 and I wait for targets. Sometimes price and market conditions does not care about my profit target and, I have to re-think a new profit target, making the R:R less than 1. This is rare.

If the market setup will not allow for your minimum R:R, then you should just pass on the trade and wait for a trade that does work. Better to wait for what will inevitably occur than push a bad setup!

Persistence! Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence.
Talent will not ... nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not ... Unrewarded genius is almost a proverb.
Education will not ... The world is full of educated derelicts.
Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent!
Calvin Coolidge
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  #157 (permalink)
goodoboy
Houston
 
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Joseph Connors View Post
If the market setup will not allow for your minimum R:R, then you should just pass on the trade and wait for a trade that does work. Better to wait for what will inevitably occur than push a bad setup!

Thank you so much Joseph,

I agree with you

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  #158 (permalink)
 Mrclaude 
Balneario Camboriu, Santa Catarina, Brazil
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: TradeStation, NinjaTrader
Trading: Gold + Currency Futures
Posts: 10 since May 2020
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I can only give you some general advice. I was a local futures floor trader for 30 years on the CBOT, the LIFFE Exchange and traded also on the Sidney Futures Exchange and the floor of the Brazilian BM&F. Screen trading is much harder because everybody is on the same playing field. Still here's my takeaway..

1) You'll have to lose money to learn how not to lose it. I lost money for 3 straight months, when I started, until suddenly I gained a "perspective" of the market that I was trading; it's like the penny drops and suddenly you have more awareness. Whatever you choose to trade, trade it every day, and don't miss days like it's a part time job. You'll lose continuity and rhythm. Get to know your chosen market like the back of your hand. After a while trading it should become almost a mechanical process. I'm a scalper, so this advice is more applicable to my type of trading.

2) Be determined as hell....that the market is not going to beat you...that no market will!

3 Trade small until whatever you're doing starts to work for you. Being consistent every day is your goal; Losing big at the outset will dishearten you, and the market will spit you out in a bloody heap. I know traders who even committed suicide over this. If it's a rough, choppy day, you're still down a few hundred by early afternoon - then quit. Trying to break even for the sake of it will end in tears. Call it a successful day. Tomorrow is another day.

4) If your account is ahead, then at the end of the month take out half of your profits. Pay rent and some bills. Connect your futures acct to the real world and get satisfaction that your trading is working for you. Build your acct by half of your monthly profits.

5)A word about automated systems (based on rules and indicators). Engineers and methodical people love them and hopefully they free you up to do your regular job, or if you can't stay in front of a screen. I've paid thousands for so-called proven systems, back-tested up the wazoo, traded by a professional broker on my behalf, that were written and devised by rocket scientists. They work great, until they don't. The market will always defeat them at some point. Simple as that. Trying to write your own rules based system will be a waste of time. The ability to create your own system is kind of cool, but it just sells hope for the most part. (sorry if I sound cynical).

6) On a personal note, I won't trade stock indexes. The algos and bots make it like swimming in shark infested waters. Absolutely everybody is trying to pick each others pockets is ES or whatever. I stick to traditional commodities like gold or financial instruments.

From your post, I sense perhaps some early frustration with trading the markets. I sincerely wish you the best of luck going forward.

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  #159 (permalink)
 
vmodus's Avatar
 vmodus 
Somewhere, Delaware, USA
 
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Mrclaude View Post
4) If your account is ahead, then at the end of the month take out half of your profits. Pay rent and some bills. Connect your futures acct to the real world and get satisfaction that your trading is working for you. Build your acct by half of your monthly profits.

4)A word about automated systems (based on rules and indicators). Engineers and methodical people love them and hopefully they free you up to do your regular job, or if you can't stay in front of a screen. I've paid thousands for so-called proven systems, back-tested up the wazoo, traded by a professional broker on my behalf, that were written and devised by rocket scientists. They work great, until they don't. The market will always defeat them at some point. Simple as that. Trying to write your own rules based system will be a waste of time. The ability to create your own system is kind of cool, but it just sells hope for the most part. (sorry if I sound cynical).

Excellent points and sage advice @Mrclaude!

#4 - I have a similar perspective, in general, when it comes to trading. Traders need to be consistent to be able to do this ('consistency' seems to be a theme in this thread). I think that, beside understanding that you need to enjoy the fruits of your labor. I think it actually can lend itself to keeping your trading grounded.

#4 (part 2) - I won't pay money for algos/automated systems, or even trade ones that have been given to me, for some of the reasons you mentioned. Mainly, backtesting is done wrong (refer to the writings of Kevin Davey, aka @kevinkdog). With that being said, I am an algo trader and yes, systems can fail after a certain amount of time, at which time it is okay to retire them. The most valuable thing I learned from Kevin regarding algo trading is portfolio diversification, especially building a non-correlated portfolio. That is kind of where we (my wife/trading partner) are with our trading.

I think people have a certain idea of what bot/algo/auto trading is, but the reality (having been doing it for many years) is something completely different. It is not the ATM that some people think (or promote) it is.

~vmodus

~vmodus

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  #160 (permalink)
 4tison 
PhuKet Island / Thailand
 
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forestcall View Post
For the heck of it I signup for his monthly subscription. Im always eager to learn from experienced Traders.

And pray tell

what have you found out to date in terms
of real money trading?

Much obliged, mate.

[email protected]

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