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Is anyone actually making money?


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Is anyone actually making money?

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  #11 (permalink)
Legendary Market Chamois
Chicago, IL
 
Experience: None
Platform: NT8,NT7,TWS
Broker: InteractiveBrokers, S5T, IQFeed
Trading: The one I'm creating in the present....Index Futures mini/micro, ZF
 
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KyronC View Post
I was too frustrated when I posted that question, I felt like I had been running into brick walls. It's just I'm so tired of having my hopes and dreams built up and then destroyed. I haven't got anyone in my life to teach me about futures, and then when I go online to learn there's always a conflict of interest. Someone is always trying to tell me how profitable they are and how I can be too, but for a fee. Now a days it's so easy to manipulate figures or just straight up lie. I think what I was really trying to ask for was a source of information... Someone I can look up to and learn from, free from a conflict of interest. I wouldn't mind paying for education, or even a premium for really high quality education, as long as it's actually worth it.

Thank you very much for putting forward your suggestions, I definitely feel like it could get me over some hurdles. Thanks again!

IMHO....

Real traders talk about Risk. How to manage it. How to mitigate Risk.

We talk about Probabilities. Discuss an Edge. Asymmetrical Opportunities. Or as I like to say, "Finding suckers to take the other side, good thing there's one born every minute."

People selling you something talk about profit.... O how much profit. You can always tell a newbie because they do not think about Risk. They cannot. Their brain is so intoxicated with profit lust.

This business is the hugest illusion, the most complete counter intuitive experience you will ever find..... on the planet.

Do yourself a favor and watch these four videos from Joe DiNapoli.....I think it will help you.....I'm not recommending his approach; you need to figure that out for yourself. Listen to what a real trader says, how he thinks, what subjects come up. This is absolutely zero BS....









I try to rewatch these when I can. Watched 1 and part of 2 earlier today. Pure Gold. Love it.......

Ron

...My calamity is My providence, outwardly it is fire and vengeance, but inwardly it is light and mercy...
The steed of this Valley is pain; and if there be no pain this journey will never end.
Buy Low And Sell High (read left to right or right to left....lol)
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  #12 (permalink)
Nottingham, United Kingdom
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NT8
Trading: MES, M2K
 
Posts: 24 since Jun 2020
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josh View Post
If they did prove it to you, it wouldn't mean anything to you personally. There is a LOT to learn on this forum. I've been a member for 10 years and it's unique in terms of the value offered here, and I continue to learn things all the time. I suggest that you stick around for a while. One of the biggest skills that ALL traders, including big time money managers, must master is the ability to separate useful vs. non-useful information. See this as an opportunity to learn how to do this. You will find nonsense on this site, and you will find gems that, if coupled with your own effort, will help you progress.

Are you consistently profitable? If so, how long for?

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  #13 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Columbus OHIO
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: NinjaTrader Brokerage
Trading: ES,
 
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Blash View Post
IMHO....

Real traders talk about Risk. How to manage it. How to mitigate Risk.

You can always tell a newbie because they do not think about Risk. They cannot. Their brain is so intoxicated with profit lust.


Ron

I just spent the weekend trying to convince a new trader that the $3500 MA crossover strat they just bought will not work in the long run. He was only worried about making money and after going blue in the face trying to explain Risk and why you shouldn't try and trade 50+ contracts on something that hasn't been back tested or ran in a Live situation I finally gave up. The statement above is one of the best I've seen on here.

Once someone blows an account 3 or 4 times they then understand that preserving capital is #1

-P

"Truth is not what you want it to be; it is what it is, and you must bend to its power or live a lie"-Miyamoto Musashi
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  #14 (permalink)
Legendary Market Wizard
Georgia, US
 
Experience: None
Platform: SC
Broker: AMP+CQG
Trading: ES, HSI, Nikkei
 
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KyronC View Post
Are you consistently profitable? If so, how long for?

That really depends on how you define "consistently profitable." If I make money in Jan, Feb, March, but am down in April and May, but am net positive over that period, is that "consistently profitable"? If I end most days green for a net gain, but spend a large portion of time in the red, holding on to losers that eventually wind up working, am I "consistently profitable" despite being perpetually on the verge of falling off a risk cliff? Risk-adjusted returns are more important to many people than net returns. To answer your question--by my definition, which is, I have an upward-sloping equity curve over some period of time, yes. But, your question comes from a place of naivety and the whole discussion is doomed to eventual disappointment. On this forum, vendors are required to identify themselves as such. Anyone else trying to sell you something should be a red flag.

IMO, you are wise to be skeptical. But don't dwell on this. In short -- to reiterate my previous recommendation: if someone is trying to sell you something, then move along. Otherwise, learn how to glean useful information and see if it helps you. Start a thread, search for threads that contain info pertinent to what you want to trade, etc. -- get involved and figure out who you are as a trader.

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  #15 (permalink)
Nottingham, United Kingdom
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NT8
Trading: MES, M2K
 
Posts: 24 since Jun 2020
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josh View Post
Your question comes from a place of naivety and the whole discussion is doomed to eventual disappointment.

Why is the discussion doomed to end in disappointment? I think asking people who aren't trying to sell me something if they're profitable is actually a pretty good place to start. And if you are going to reply to me, use words you would use in real life, you did it the first time. I know you don't use words like 'perpetually' & 'glean' in real life. While studying at University I've learnt that many people like over complicating things to make themselves seem more intelligent, whereas I think it takes more intelligence to make something complicated seem simple. You've been a member since 2011, you don't have to pull powerful vocabulary out your arse to get credibility.

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  #16 (permalink)
Site Moderator
London UK
 
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KyronC View Post
Why is the discussion doomed to end in disappointment? I think asking people who aren't trying to sell me something if they're profitable is actually a pretty good place to start. And if you are going to reply to me, use words you would use in real life, you did it the first time. I know you don't use words like 'perpetually' & 'glean' in real life. While studying at University I've learnt that many people like over complicating things to make themselves seem more intelligent, whereas I think it takes more intelligence to make something complicated seem simple. You've been a member since 2011, you don't have to pull powerful vocabulary out your arse to get credibility.

@KyronC

Please moderate your language. You are new here but this site does not tolerate gratuitous expressions such as "pull powerful vocabulary out your arse".

Also, in response to josh, you write "I know you don't use words like...". The fact is, you don't know josh personally, so do not assume what they may or may not say in real life.

Also please note, what josh wrote, actually, reflects his likely level of expertise. He is right in pointing out that "making money" is quite a simplistic statement. You may want to look up the concept of 'drawdown' for example.

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  #17 (permalink)
Legendary Market Wizard
Georgia, US
 
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KyronC View Post
And if you are going to reply to me, use words you would use in real life... I know you don't use words like 'perpetually' & 'glean' in real life.

...

You've been a member since 2011, you don't have to pull powerful vocabulary out your arse to get credibility.

This is the first time I've heard of "glean" and "perpetually" being referred to as "powerful vocabulary." In my world, they're words that most people know. All the same, thanks for outlining the guidelines on how replies to you should be worded.

To be blunt: I have zero interest in how many credibility points I accumulate in your book. I don't know you, and took my time to try to be helpful to you, a stranger. Clearly, I have failed. In all sincerity, I say good luck to you -- because you may very well need a metric s--- ton of it.

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  #18 (permalink)
Legendary Market Chamois
Chicago, IL
 
Experience: None
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Trading: The one I'm creating in the present....Index Futures mini/micro, ZF
 
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Posts: 2,221 since Nov 2011
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KyronC View Post
Why is the discussion doomed to end in disappointment? I think asking people who aren't trying to sell me something if they're profitable is actually a pretty good place to start. And if you are going to reply to me, use words you would use in real life, you did it the first time. I know you don't use words like 'perpetually' & 'glean' in real life. While studying at University I've learnt that many people like over complicating things to make themselves seem more intelligent, whereas I think it takes more intelligence to make something complicated seem simple. You've been a member since 2011, you don't have to pull powerful vocabulary out your arse to get credibility.

Run when someone is selling you something in this business.

Pick a platform. Read Mark Douglas. Read Denise Shull. Figure out you from the standpoint of do you want or need quick trades, are you super patient, or not so much. Can you stomach losing big chunks like $3000 at a pop or only $300 loss.

Once you know you, you can better understand the time frame that most suits you. Now figure out an edge within that time frame. (Books, testing, study, screen time, live trades)

All this took me 10 years total. First trade was in Orange Juice back in 1997 ish.

Sounds to me like you are going to need to sit down with someone and watch them trade ...a tutor/mentor. Nothing wrong with that. I did that thru a group setting at seminars. John Carter/Mark Douglas, John Netto, Tom Busby (this one was a big big mistake). Find Kam there in the UK.

I have not had breakfast yet this morning. I have to mow. I'm waiting for a software update from a vender. I have some reading to do for a course I'm taking. Yet I am typing this for you. Honestly trying to help you. I think there is a 18% probability what I say here will mean something to you.

I would NEVER take a trade with P this low.

Hope I am wrong......

Ron

...My calamity is My providence, outwardly it is fire and vengeance, but inwardly it is light and mercy...
The steed of this Valley is pain; and if there be no pain this journey will never end.
Buy Low And Sell High (read left to right or right to left....lol)
Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
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  #19 (permalink)
Nottingham, United Kingdom
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NT8
Trading: MES, M2K
 
Posts: 24 since Jun 2020
Thanks: 59 given, 52 received


Blash View Post
Run when someone is selling you something in this business.

Pick a platform. Read Mark Douglas. Read Denise Shull. Figure out you from the standpoint of do you want or need quick trades, are you super patient, or not so much. Can you stomach losing big chunks like $3000 at a pop or only $300 loss.

Once you know you, you can better understand the time frame that most suits you. Now figure out an edge within that time frame. (Books, testing, study, screen time, live trades)

All this took me 10 years total. First trade was in Orange Juice back in 1997 ish.

Sounds to me like you are going to need to sit down with someone and watch them trade ...a tutor/mentor. Nothing wrong with that. I did that thru a group setting at seminars. John Carter/Mark Douglas, John Netto, Tom Busby (this one was a big big mistake). Find Kam there in the UK.

I have not had breakfast yet this morning. I have to mow. I'm waiting for a software update from a vender. I have some reading to do for a course I'm taking. Yet I am typing this for you. Honestly trying to help you. I think there is a 18% probability what I say here will mean something to you.

I would NEVER take a trade with P this low.

Hope I am wrong......

Ron

Thank you, this was exactly the type of reply I was hoping for. It's honest, clear, and constructive.

Thanks again!

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  #20 (permalink)
Legendary Market Wizard
Calgary, Alberta
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader 8
Broker: Kinetick
Trading: ES
 
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josh View Post
This is the first time I've heard of "glean" and "perpetually" being referred to as "powerful vocabulary." In my world, they're words that most people know. All the same, thanks for outlining the guidelines on how replies to you should be worded.

To be blunt: I have zero interest in how many credibility points I accumulate in your book. I don't know you, and took my time to try to be helpful to you, a stranger. Clearly, I have failed. In all sincerity, I say good luck to you -- because you may very well need a metric s--- ton of it.

Well said. I was just putting together a long post highlighting some educational threads on psychology, methodology and real world trading ideas for the OP to build upon. And then I read the few posts above and discarded it.

What a shame. I spent the last hour or so putting a pretty solid package together. Some people just don't want to be helped I guess.

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