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Another way to trade...to all those angry holy grail seekers..


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Another way to trade...to all those angry holy grail seekers..

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  #31 (permalink)
Portland, ME
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Jigsaw, TOS, Firetip
Trading: YM, MYM, stocks, options
 
Posts: 22 since Feb 2020
Thanks: 4 given, 30 received


TWDsje View Post
Well I'm sorry if I am being "rude". I have no intention of breaching the rules. However, I will never be one to hold back what I think about a situation. That's one of my unique traits. It's a little hard to call people out without being rude, but that's not going to stop me from trying. If it still comes out too rude then moderators are free to take whatever action they deem appropriate.

So I'm just going to more specifically lay out the issue I have here with what's going on:



I am very concerned when I see people out of the gate attempting to discourage people from questioning things. There is lots of advice out there that sounds good, but fails in actual practice. By giving such attitudes a free pass we create an atmosphere where it is easier to mislead or outright scam people.

The author is claiming that he makes money off a system that gives him entries, stops, and directions off purely mechanical signals on an intraday chart. That is a big claim. This is a claim that I have seen made many times that ended up being a lie. I have seen many profitable track records, but never such results on a purely mechanical intraday system. I'll see some that work well in certain time periods, but never over multiple years. To truly verify such a claim it would be necessary to produce broker verified statements verifying that he traded it live, and that the results were representative of all their trading activity in that account for that time period. However, that is a verification that is really too much to ask for one individual posting on a forum. So I just ask for stats. How did it actually perform when it was traded?

Without even basic statics on the historical performance of the system there is no way to verify the effectiveness of anything in the author's post. It is just more noise in a sea of opinions. But what really gets me is when you ask for some data, and you get responses like this



In my view this is a statement designed to manipulate people into not questioning things. The author is unable or unwilling to verify his claims, and is attempting to discourage anyone from asking by implying that if they don't see it they must be dumb. There is significant reason to be skeptical of this user and the information he is sharing. People usually don't respond well to having their strategy called out. I get it. But I am compelled to point these things out when I see them for the good of everyone involved. The reader can come to their own conclusions after reading interactions.


Hey, are you THE Speculator Seth on youtube?!? Dude, I have enjoyed a couple of your videos from time to time. I had no clue you posted here! Awesome

I'm in agreement with you Seth. But at least the OP isn't saying he's making $30 million a year from his system, so I give him that, at least. If a guy wants to trade with his own custom indicator....so be it....wanna use the moon cycles? So be it. Claim that it's profitable over the past 5 years? Ok let's see it then.

Anyone with a lot of experience and who's paid tuition in trading will know there is NO indicator that will give perfect entry/exit and stops. But an indicator could be a reference used (with heavy context), but not strictly relied on. They are always lagging behind actual price movement. So much of this is actually psychology too, which is why focusing on just an indicator isn't going to solve the actual issues.

We all want the "red light/sell and green light/buy" system but it just doesn't exist in the form of a complete turn-key "system" and this is why trading is challenging. The conditions constantly change. Edges change. There are very few businesses that exist as profitable "turn-key" operations (I do know of 1 real life business of a friend, that grosses 10 million a year, but it was handed to him via family). All he had to do was walk into the doors of the business, all the risk was taken by someone else and he could assume the small operation immediately AND collect his paycheck!
I wouldn't mind being him, but at the same time I like the grit we acquire by going out there and risking our own @$$ to build our own empire.

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  #32 (permalink)
Pahrump, NV
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: AMP
Trading: ES, NQ, CL
 
Posts: 41 since Aug 2016
Thanks: 3 given, 26 received


TraderDoc007 View Post
I have a GUI that is written in the form of an indicator that trades the right hand side of the chart. When I originally developed the concept(which was in Tradestation years ago), I used a strategy to test the validity of the concept. The concept worked exactly the way I wanted to and it was then turned into an App, using OOEL that traded the right hand side of the chart. When forced to leave Tradestation, I had to find something that replaced my app. That is when I had a GUI developed. I do all my trading on the right hand side of the chart, not on backtested data. It is not a simple switch it on and let it trade all day - It places all the orders at the same places every time - I decide whether to leave them where they are or change them. Support and resistance, market mode etc are what I determine to tell me where to adjust my orders. So Iím not too sure what you mean when you say Iím hiding something?

The problem with this sort of post is that it doesn't really say anything while giving the impression that it's giving out valuable information. What is being hid is the details of such a system. "The concept" is meaningless without saying something like "it's based on a strength of market indicator crossing above/below XXX". It's like saying "I've got this really fast car, and I can beat anyone in a street race" without giving *some* details about what kind of car it is, engine size/torque. etc. With so many traders struggling to be profitable, it comes across to me as being really cruel, like dangling a glass of water in front of a person dying of thirst, then saying "you can't have any".

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  #33 (permalink)
Detroit MI/USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Multicharts, Custom own
Trading: All Futures
 
Posts: 56 since Sep 2017
Thanks: 25 given, 150 received



n7ekg View Post
The problem with this sort of post is that it doesn't really say anything while giving the impression that it's giving out valuable information. What is being hid is the details of such a system. "The concept" is meaningless without saying something like "it's based on a strength of market indicator crossing above/below XXX". It's like saying "I've got this really fast car, and I can beat anyone in a street race" without giving *some* details about what kind of car it is, engine size/torque. etc. With so many traders struggling to be profitable, it comes across to me as being really cruel, like dangling a glass of water in front of a person dying of thirst, then saying "you can't have any".

Iím not too sure what detail you would like. For me personally, I do not want to be making directional decisions regarding the market while trading so I colour code my ADAPTIVE midline indicator which tells me whether I should be long or short. The entries occur at the midline and various ATRís from the midline.

If my indicator shows I should be trading from the long side, I wait for the pullback from above to the midline. I am no soothsayer or have no predictive power, so I have no clue where the pullback will end, so I purchase tranches of my position as the market hits the midline and the various ATRís beneath the midline. If it is a market turnaround and not a pullback, then my stop is waiting at the ATR below my last entry. I then take profits at various ATRís above the midline, these being determined by how many tranches I was able to enter on the pullback. The exact same process occurs for shorts but the entries are above the midline and the exits below the midline, at various ATR levels.

Does this help in any way? Is this what you were referring to about detail?

Addendum.

Ive just noticed in an earlier post, on June 6th, you stated, and I quote:
ď Looking at your charts, I think I can duplicate most of your stuff on Sierra - it's pretty obvious if you know which indicators work and which don't.ď

Iím assuming you were able to duplicate my stuff on Sierra, so the detail I have given you above should allow you to trade exactly the same way I trade.
Does it suit your personality or not? Iím now a little confused as to what you are asking now?

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  #34 (permalink)
SpeculatorSeth
Salt Lake City, Utah
 
Platform: Jigsaw, NinjaTrader8
 
Posts: 521 since Apr 2016
Thanks: 18 given, 500 received


133usd View Post
Hey, are you THE Speculator Seth on youtube?!? Dude, I have enjoyed a couple of your videos from time to time. I had no clue you posted here! Awesome

I'm in agreement with you Seth. But at least the OP isn't saying he's making $30 million a year from his system, so I give him that, at least. If a guy wants to trade with his own custom indicator....so be it....wanna use the moon cycles? So be it. Claim that it's profitable over the past 5 years? Ok let's see it then.

Anyone with a lot of experience and who's paid tuition in trading will know there is NO indicator that will give perfect entry/exit and stops. But an indicator could be a reference used (with heavy context), but not strictly relied on. They are always lagging behind actual price movement. So much of this is actually psychology too, which is why focusing on just an indicator isn't going to solve the actual issues.

We all want the "red light/sell and green light/buy" system but it just doesn't exist in the form of a complete turn-key "system" and this is why trading is challenging. The conditions constantly change. Edges change. There are very few businesses that exist as profitable "turn-key" operations (I do know of 1 real life business of a friend, that grosses 10 million a year, but it was handed to him via family). All he had to do was walk into the doors of the business, all the risk was taken by someone else and he could assume the small operation immediately AND collect his paycheck!
I wouldn't mind being him, but at the same time I like the grit we acquire by going out there and risking our own @$$ to build our own empire.

Shh don't blow my cover

We're definitely on the same page here. I just can't stand it when people claim they have results that prove this isn't true, but then refuse to offer even basic stats. I've seen many instances where traders thought they had something that worked, but they were really only generating profits from excessive risk. But we can't verify any of that because the author has not provided any data. Of course, there's no rule that states they're required to show us. I'm still going to point it out though because I think this kind of behavior is really harmful for new traders trying to navigate building a strategy.

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  #35 (permalink)
Detroit MI/USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Multicharts, Custom own
Trading: All Futures
 
Posts: 56 since Sep 2017
Thanks: 25 given, 150 received


TWDsje View Post
Shh don't blow my cover

We're definitely on the same page here. I just can't stand it when people claim they have results that prove this isn't true, but then refuse to offer even basic stats. I've seen many instances where traders thought they had something that worked, but they were really only generating profits from excessive risk. But we can't verify any of that because the author has not provided any data. Of course, there's no rule that states they're required to show us. I'm still going to point it out though because I think this kind of behavior is really harmful for new traders trying to navigate building a strategy.

Sir, I have not claimed anything - you seem to be fixated on things that I have never said! There is also nothing for you to verify. Read the actual messages and content in this thread, and think whatever you'd like. I'm not concerned whether you believe I'm profitable or not. It makes no difference to me.
Please point out to me where "this kind of behaviour is really harmful for new traders trying to navigate building a strategy". What kind of behaviour? I have shown exactly how I trade and did not cherry pick charts or settings of my indicators in my posts - I simply printed 5 min charts (which a lot of people trade) and did some common markets. And then I've described how I actually use the indicators and trade. What is so difficult to understand about that???

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  #36 (permalink)
KNOXVILLE TN.
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: nijia trader
Broker: A.M.P. I.Q. ....C.Q.G.
Trading: ym
 
Posts: 560 since Mar 2012
Thanks: 116 given, 302 received

i agree with the concept , if you can not or will not prove you can trade there is know reason to think you can .

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  #37 (permalink)
Chicago,Illinois
 
 
Posts: 2 since Jun 2020
Thanks: 10 given, 0 received


forgiven View Post
i agree with the concept , if you can not or will not prove you can trade there is know reason to think you can .

I am new on this site but I've been trading for many years.
I have systems that have taken me years creating and I trade them every day.
When I did my backtesting I knew they worked. I dont' have to do any of that now because I trade every day.
Sometimes when people trade and use their systems every day, they don't need to prove it to anyone as we know what we are doing and don't have to prove it to anyone. When I trade, I'm not trying to see how much money I can make, it is past that. I trade to see how well I can execute my strategy and am always aiming for perfection. After years, I'm still only around 80% according to my own internal meter.

So I don't think anyone who doesn't give you proof is necessarily hiding anything or trying to dupe anyone.

Just my viewpoint, might not be what everyone wants to hear.

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  #38 (permalink)
KNOXVILLE TN.
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: nijia trader
Broker: A.M.P. I.Q. ....C.Q.G.
Trading: ym
 
Posts: 560 since Mar 2012
Thanks: 116 given, 302 received

that may be true for you. however 99% its not true . if you can not or will not prove it , how in the hell would we know it. i can not speck for the other members but i am going to play the percentages and assume you are in the 99% that can not trade until proven wrong . it is not personal . its just the trading educational industry is a group of bandits.

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