Trading small (sub $10,000) accounts

August 26th, 2010, 08:25 PM

AR01

Twiddle,
What type of orders are you using and have you traded live with them? When I first started I was using limit orders for my SIM trading and I was scalping small moves. The limit orders do not fill in real life like the do on SIM. If the market moves through your price, no problem. But if the market touches the price you are in line behind others before your order fills. My SIM trading I found out was not realistic in the real world. Something to think about.

Good luck

Andrew

The issue you raise here is one of the reasons why I want to go live with a small account, to learn the ropes and how it differs from my sim trading.

Because currently I find it easy making money in sim, and I am sure this is not how it is going to be live.

In all likelihood I will lose the cash when I go live, but I think it will be vital learning.

August 26th, 2010, 08:29 PM

Twiddle

The issue you raise here is one of the reasons why I want to go live with a small account, to learn the ropes and how it differs from my sim trading.

Because currently I find it easy making money in sim, and I am sure this is not how it is going to be live.

In all likelihood I will lose the cash when I go live, but I think it will be vital learning.

I made this same mistake with limit orders early on....I wasted 3 months of testing a system using limit orders to scalp small targets and had to start over from scratch......

August 26th, 2010, 08:48 PM

AR01

The right bets in craps get you true odds (pass line odds bet for example), which is the best bet for the player in a casino because it reduces the money edge to the casino for the overall bet and the individual bet is a 0% casino edge. Why does the casino give true odds on any bet? Because most rookie betters don't know how to manage their money to take advantage of it.

The "edge" I was referring to is knowing how to manage your money, increasing bets at the right times when you are on a hot roll, being around long enough to hit the streak, and then walking away. That's the edge. Walking away when you are up. I've rolled 45 minutes at a craps table and busted the table. They needed to go get more chips from the vault. In 45 minutes my money was up 10 fold. I walked away. Most at the table stayed and gave all of their money back. I just don't do it as a profession because I don't like the smoke and I was at the table 12 to 15 hours waiting for that one streak. bleh

Search here for the words "true odds" and look at the chart at the bottom where it references house edge 0% with the Pass odds and Don't pass odds bets.

Craps - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't want to hijack this thread so this will be may last response on gambling but I needed point out that there are bets in a casino that provide zero edge to the casino.

The original point is money management applies to many things similarly.

Andrew

I don't want to hijack this thread either, but you are mistaken. Taking odds simply reduces the house edge; it doesn't give you, the punter, an edge.

I would submit you simply got lucky with that one in a million roll, but I will give you props for having the stamina and patience to wait for it. No bell goes off in the casino when a shooter may get hot--in retrospect it's easy to see just like chart reading when a setup worked perfectly--because each roll of the dice is random and INDEPENDENT of any other.

I hope you find this valuable in case you decide to put up with the smoke and fatigue full time in hopes of making a living playing craps.

August 26th, 2010, 08:55 PM

Agreed Zoethecus.

I am reading "Pit Bull" by Martin Schwartz in parallel to "High probability trading" at present.

Pit Bull is highly entertaining, however there is some strange advise in there about gambling which makes me a little concerned. Things like "If you have had a good streak, it is time to switch table." or "Wait for a streak of the same result, then bet the opposite." Things which completely contradict probability and mathematics, and are more akin to superstition, and reek of confirmation bias.

Anyway, it is a good book, just thought I would mention it since gambling is being discussed.

August 26th, 2010, 11:11 PM

Twiddle

The issue you raise here is one of the reasons why I want to go live with a small account, to learn the ropes and how it differs from my sim trading.

Because currently I find it easy making money in sim, and I am sure this is not how it is going to be live.

In all likelihood I will lose the cash when I go live, but I think it will be vital learning.

Hi Twiddle,

I have the same issue as you in terms of potential latency (NZ vs Aus).

Not sure what software and data provider you are using, but if you are using ZenFire data, you can request your broker to allow you to have two simultaneous logins. Then you can access ZenFires beta Web site. In the top right hand corner they have a 'connection' light - if you hover your mouse over this it will tell you your current 'ping' time to ZenFire. Mine is normally about 230ms which is high compared to our US friends. Now this is the latency using the web interface which will be different to the direct connection ( I have noticed that sometimes the web is faster and other times the direct connection). But this is the best test you can do as ZenFire will not allow you to ping their live data connections.

THEN, if you are using NT charting software there is a setting to do with running in SIM that allows you to emulate the data and exchange delay. What I have done is change my data delay to 230ms so that when I am in SIM it is as realsitic as possible to live latency.

Of course you still have the issue of your place in the que for your order where running in SIM may or may not be realistic enough.

August 26th, 2010, 11:21 PM

steve2222

Hi Twiddle,

I have the same issue as you in terms of potential latency (NZ vs Aus).

Not sure what software and data provider you are using, but if you are using ZenFire data, you can request your broker to allow you to have two simultaneous logins. Then you can access ZenFires beta Web site. In the top right hand corner they have a 'connection' light - if you hover your mouse over this it will tell you your current 'ping' time to ZenFire. Mine is normally about 230ms which is high compared to our US friends. Now this is the latency using the web interface which will be different to the direct connection ( I have noticed that sometimes the web is faster and other times the direct connection). But this is the best test you can do as ZenFire will not allow you to ping their live data connections.

THEN, if you are using NT charting software there is a setting to do with running in SIM that allows you to emulate the data and exchange delay. What I have done is change my data delay to 230ms so that when I am in SIM it is as realsitic as possible to live latency.

Of course you still have the issue of your place in the que for your order where running in SIM may or may not be realistic enough.

Cheers Steve, good to know.

Trading small (sub $10,000) accounts

Discussion in Traders Hideout

Trading small (sub $10,000) accounts