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Coronavirus COVID-19

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  #101 (permalink)
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Surely, instead of re-inventing the wheel, they would produce a knockoff of what already works.

Of course, if there are existing Healthcare companies already producing ventilators, and they have the capacity to produce them in the required quantities, it would seem odd they are not used.

If a healthcare company does not build ventilators, I'd say they have no more skill than the car makers.

In terms of feelings towards Healthcare companies. They are there to make money for their shareholders. Originally perhaps, companies were formed to "do good", but money soon takes over.

Healthcare companies (generally) don't release working products that will harm their bottom line. For instance, there has long been a pill that will cure the common cold in a day or so. That is not as profitable as a 6 day supply (along with vitamins, nasal sprays, cough drops etc ), plus kleenex, not to mention the infection rate would be dramatically lower which further hits sales of the above items.

Musk only a few days ago was downplaying covid-19

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  #102 (permalink)
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Hi Guys,

Last night i talked to my brother in sweden told him to be careful. He laught and said i already had it last week and are back to work now my wife is in bed sick like hell and fewer and coffing and our daughter already had it the same time i did and want to go back to school but 50% of her school mates have it aswell. He said if you have been sick tha last couple of months you probably had it already.

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  #103 (permalink)
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Mabi View Post
Hi Guys,

Last night i talked to my brother in sweden told him to be careful. He laught and said i already had it last week and are back to work now my wife is in bed sick like hell and fewer and coffing and our daughter already had it the same time i did and want to go back to school but 50% of her school mates have it aswell. He said if you have been sick tha last couple of months you probably had it already.

Yes, problem here is there is serious misinformation about outbreak dates, by the time China admitted to having outbreak it was already Pandemic level, head of WHO purposefully denied this and even kept praising China for its "good work", I hear he is also corrupt and communist


Basically we were done if by data fudging, corruption and bunch of uneducated stupid leaders. To make matters worse ordinary public was also systematically duped by people who produce masks and sanitizers.

She is Chinese doctor, giving account of things


"Things were already serious when Chinese new year began"

Usually that starts in end of Jan and lasts for 15 days, by then Chinese were already shopping for face masks from anywhere they could get.

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  #104 (permalink)
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LastDino,

Your below statement is not accurate and in this extermely serious situation, we need facts and not to be diverted by misinformation:

"Yes, problem here is there is serious misinformation about outbreak dates, by the time China admitted to having outbreak it was already Pandemic level, head of WHO purposefully denied this and even kept praising China for its "good work", I hear he is also corrupt and communist"

A pandemic is a world wide epidemic, so in the early stages the WHO was correct in saying it was an epidemic, since it was confined to China and a few cases in a handfull of other countries. There was no denial by the WHO. It is easy to accuse someone of corruption.

Did the US behave much differently than China, in the early phases? One might look at the denial by the US "leadership" - which is of course sqeaky clean, utterly ethical, a model of high values and without corruption (sarcasm). In the early phases of the virus in the USA, when everyone could see 4 - 6 weeks of observable carnage in China, this non-communist leadership lied, obfuscated and downplayed the threat to the general population (as did China in the first weeks). The US refused to plan and prepare and then had to quickly reverse its stance and play catch up. In the meantime the Virus has spread massively. Others in this thread have posted details on the huge problems the US public health system will face, due to the way it has been set up and (under) funded. I won't repeat that.

Just my 2 cents, others may disagree.

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  #105 (permalink)
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sienna View Post
LastDino,

Your below statement is not accurate and in this extermely serious situation, we need facts and not to be diverted by misinformation:

"Yes, problem here is there is serious misinformation about outbreak dates, by the time China admitted to having outbreak it was already Pandemic level, head of WHO purposefully denied this and even kept praising China for its "good work", I hear he is also corrupt and communist"

A pandemic is a world wide epidemic, so in the early stages the WHO was correct in saying it was an epidemic, since it was confined to China and a few cases in a handfull of other countries. There was no denial by the WHO. It is easy to accuse someone of corruption.

Did the US behave much differently than China, in the early phases? One might look at the denial by the US "leadership" - which is of course sqeaky clean, utterly ethical, a model of high values and without corruption (sarcasm). In the early phases of the virus in the USA, when everyone could see 4 - 6 weeks of observable carnage in China, this non-communist leadership lied, obfuscated and downplayed the threat to the general population (as did China in the first weeks). The US refused to plan and prepare and then had to quickly reverse its stance and play catch up. In the meantime the Virus has spread massively. Others in this thread have posted details on the huge problems the US public health system will face, due to the way it has been set up and (under) funded. I won't repeat that.

Just my 2 cents, others may disagree.

I've been tracking this since case number was less than 3k, I completely disagree with your assumption here that I'm accusing China of something. It is very serious crime on end of both China and WHO for trying to underplay it on world monitors when in reality they were busy making the doctors who found about this sign a "confession of spreading rumors". Even I could tell at that sage that it was going to be Pandemic and not just epidemic due to it being month of Chinese new years, I would assume WHO having slightly more intelligent and well informed people leading it than I'm.



Result of which was Chinese new-year returnees from Iran and Italy went back to Iran and Italy after spending their holidays in China. One belt one road is very very big project and mostly only Chinese workers and engineers work on it across EU and Asia.

Note in same video Chinese guy arguing "how overreaction by adopting restrictions can hinder...something something" around 1:40

There is difference between waiting for graves to pull out everywhere before declaring something Pandemic and clearly acting on something which was potentially Pandemic by declaring it so, which WHO did just "9 Days ago", even by your calculation that should be little late. WHO was busy before this in giving virus some name that indicated it didn't come from China and China was busy convincing its people that it came from US and not homegrown.

Which further resulted in other countries being late to seal down their own borders. Now whom to blame? China and WHO right? I think all those dead and their relatives and all those people who are going to die in future will agree here with me.

Fyi, these are all facts. Not accusations. And suppressing this would be equivalent in giving something like this free pass in future as well.

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  #106 (permalink)
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Even he could tell the "potential of problem" and giving out warning as early as Jan 2020.



Then there is this-
Chinese nationals buying masks from outside China in huge bulks and selling them in China as early as before start of Chinese new years.
Around 13 min



Check video post dates. Just for informational purpose. Draw your own conclusions

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  #107 (permalink)
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From WSJ finally something that makes sense regarding this......


Quoting 

The escalation has strained hospitals and medical resources in New York City and elsewhere. General Motors said it is lending logistics, purchasing and manufacturing support to Ventec Life Systems to help the medical-devices company ramp up production of ventilators.

Ron


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Good point.



But I ask... who is better suited to understand the patient's needs? A Health Care company or an automaker?



My wife (of 28yrs) has been in Health Care for 20 years. Director level. Health Care is a very nuanced field. The learning curve for GM is going to be extremely steep and they are going to make mistakes....costing time....something that is in short supply currently. Am I wrong?



Everybody loves to think Health Care is this big cash cow that somehow don't deserve their profits and all crazy mad at health care costs pointing fingers accusing them of ripping off the public....until they get sick.... then they are super grateful for this amazing industry that creates genius molecules and therapies. And it's so easy, any other field, say autoworkers, can whip out patient centered products with zero experience.



I think it is foolish when extraordinarily qualified people/companies that know the patients, aren't even brought into the discussion or asked to help.



Lets hope I'm wrong.........



I'm not saying these are not highly qualified engineers (at GM, Elon). Just that knowing the patient is what health care is all about. I love Elon. What a gift to humanity he is. Doesn't mean he has the skills or knowledge that cater best to the patient.



Ron






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  #108 (permalink)
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Last Dino
I'm puzzled at your response, as it seems you have not read my response properly (or I have not expresses it well).

Some points:
A) (Unless I have misread your text) You accuse the head of the WHO as being corrupt and communist and Chinese that is what I am responding to.

B) You state that the Chinese repressed information in the early phases. Yes, of course they did that and brutally so, as was covered in many reutable news sources and your examples above. Was I arguing otherwise? No. (In fact many have pointed out months ago, that this enabled the spread of the virus, including its international spread).

C) Additional to (B), my reply was as follows and (Note the context, "in the early phases").
"Did the US behave much differently than China, in the early phases? . One might look at the denial by the US "leadership" - which is of course sqeaky clean, utterly ethical, a model of high values and without corruption (sarcasm). In the early phases of the virus in the USA, when everyone could see 4 - 6 weeks of observable carnage in China, this non-communist leadership lied, obfuscated and downplayed the threat to the general population (as did China in the first weeks). The US refused to plan and prepare and then had to quickly reverse its stance and play catch up.".

Am I saying that the US brutally cracked down, as did the Chinese? No. But the intentions were the same. In the early phases of the virus: Try to preserve your political power and lie, obfiscate, attack others and use the media to muddy the waters on the scientific facts. Just like in China. Result: Greater spread of the virus and trying to play catch -up, after the horse has bolted. Couple that with political ineptitude, an underfunded public health system and a history of persecuting or ignoring expert scientific advice, years of polarising the public and a rush towards gun buying.....that is dynamite.

What I cannot understand is the delusional inaction and of these Western political "leaders", when we have all seen for weeks and weeks, the carnage in Wuhan unfolding, writ large on the international stage.

Anyway, enough said. Rather than continue with this line of argument, I would prefer to keep asking:
1) Are our political leaders trying to save their reputations and power base and disseminating mis-information, or are they following good science in this emergency?
2) What have other cultures implemented, to successfully reduce the infections and deaths (so far) and has that worked? Singapore and Taiwan have had huge successes (so far). Why is that?
3) Once the emergency has passed, are our political leaders going to roll back the emergency powers or are they going to keep a higher level of surveillance in place (higher even, that we have now - tragically)?

I'll stop here and continue to read reputable news sources with these 3 questions in the back of my mind.

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  #109 (permalink)
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A good read. It has information backed up by data you won’t find reported anywhere else.

https://medium.com/six-four-six-nine/evidence-over-hysteria-covid-19-1b767def5894

nosce te ipsum

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  #110 (permalink)
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https://www.tomshardware.com/uk/news/folding-at-home-worlds-top-supercomputers-coronavirus-covid-19


Propelled by average enthusiasts in their shared quest to defeat COVID-19, the Folding@Home network is now pushing out 470 PetaFLOPS of raw compute power. To put that in perspective, that's twice as fast as Summit, the world's fastest supercomputer, making the network faster than any known supercomputer. It's also faster than the top seven supercomputers in the world,*combined.*

It's impressive that the Folding@Home network is now more than twice as powerful as Summit's 149 PetaFLOPS of sustained output:*ORNL announced two weeks ago that Summit*had also joined the coronavirus fight and has already found 77 different small-molecule drug compounds that might be useful to fight the virus. Summit employs 220,800 CPU cores, 188,416,000 CUDA cores, 9.2PB of memory, and 250PB of mixed NVRAM/storage for the task.*

But Summit is far faster than the other supercomputers further down the*Top500 list. That means the Folding@Home network is also now faster than the world's top seven supercomputers, combined. That's equivalent to the horsepower of 27,433,824 CPU/GPU cores that are being used in the most powerful systems in the world. These leading supercomputers are typically only used by nation-states for decidedly more nefarious purposes, such as nuclear research, so seeing this type of compute power unleashed for the common goal of defeating the coronavirus is certainly encouraging.*



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  #111 (permalink)
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crap my whole reply went..oh well no time to re-type it

1. 300,000 Chinese live in Italy and some brought the China virus back from Wuhan from the Chines new Year (yes when China had locked down - but spreading it to the west A-Ok
2. Tetros definitely slow-walked the pandemic label by 3 weeks - it was in enough countries to justify it
WHO and Tetros are in the CCP back-pocket and do what Emperor Pooh says.

In video
Emperor Pooh pretends to have visited Wuhan (but green screened it)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH1dDBKbKUg

having followed this from the beginning the only thing the CCP has done is conceal and lie about this right form the beginning. - and arrest and torture the Chinese doctor who was trying to raise the early alarm. He died from it.


..........
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I'll just leave this here...


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I'll just leave this here..

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Silver Dragon View Post
A good read. It has information backed up by data you won’t find reported anywhere else.

https://medium.com/six-four-six-nine/evidence-over-hysteria-covid-19-1b767def5894

This was taken down by Medium because it was misleading bullshit. It was written by Aaron Ginn, a Silicon Valley technologist who has worked in Republican party politics

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Quoting 
A) (Unless I have misread your text) You accuse the head of the WHO as being corrupt and communist and Chinese that is what I am responding to.

That's not an accusation, there is very real debate going on international platforms and very real cases in Ethiopia about this and this is not just related to corona virus, it is also related to non inclusion of Taiwan as a different country in WHO, which WHO has not on behalf of China. Ones actions declare their alliance.

Besides that Dr. Tedros has very distinctive career of Politician with PTLF, most powerful party in Ethiopia and this particular Dr has been personally involved with many acts against humanity. These are not accusation, he just happens to be favorite man of the dictators who are also pocket buddies of winnie the poo (Mr. Xi), who many people don't realize but is current indirect ruler of pretty much most of Africa.

https://ecadforum.com/2017/04/23/dr-tedros-adhanom-is-an-individual-suspected-of-a-crime-against-humanity/
Read the dates again, this is from 2017. I was especially caught off guard by one paragraph here>>>

The candidate has failed to be transparent by forcing the Ethiopian Ministry of Health to not report and cover up a Cholera epidemic throughout his tenure by simply renaming a deadly epidemic as an Acute Watery Diarrhea (AWD) even after the diagnosis of Vibrio Cholerae was confirmed. His priority in deciding so was to conceal the impact a public admission of Cholera epidemic might have on Tourism and image of his Party rather than protecting the international community and attempting to reach out to the affected areas. Such a sad error due to lack of judgment resulted in a nationwide epidemic.

Any similarities?



Quoting 
2) What have other cultures implemented, to successfully reduce the infections and deaths (so far) and has that worked? Singapore and Taiwan have had huge successes (so far). Why is that?

They were the first to seal the borders along with South Korea, Malaysia even tried to close the stock market. They were more aware of the ground situation than others were, who generally depend on WHO for guidance. This brings to most of your questions about US, their leadership is not exactly considered to be in right place mentally at the moment but as general rule they also waited for WHO guidelines. But you may disagree with that part on your own accord.

Please don't call something "accusatory" unless you are the defenders lawyer, this has no real political or personal benefits to me, as an individual you are free to disagree and that's that. I've considerable research behind my conclusions even if everything is not white and black provable. Drawing those conclusions and publishing them is well within something I should do.

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  #116 (permalink)
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This is a re-post from somewhere else. I'm sorry for putting up lots of covid-19 posts. I think it is important, and this was the first time I have seen this explained....

Why do we need to shut places where people group?

Remember this: VIRAL LOAD

There will be a lot about this. Why is it important?

With this virus, the amount of virus in your blood at first infection directly relates to the severity of the illness you will suffer. This isn’t unusual - HIV management is all about reducing viral load to keep people alive longer. BUT it’s very important in COVID-19.

So if you are in, say, a pub or religious building or entertainment venue with 200 people and a large number don’t have symptoms but are shedding, you are breathing in lots of droplets per minute and absorbing a high load of the virus. In a crowded space. They become ill over the next 48 hours. You then three days later wonder why you can’t breathe and end up in hospital. You’d decided because you were young and healthy it wasn’t going to be a problem. Wrong.

Fortunately but unfortunately because the elderly are isolating quite well, the initial UK data suggests that all age groups above 20 are almost equally represented in ITUs in England. Most of the cases are in London but the wave is moving outwards.

This means that being under 60 and fit and well doesn’t seem to be as protective as we thought. Why? Viral load.

This may be skewed simply by the fact that too many Londoners didn’t do as asked and congregated in large groups in confined spaces and got a large initial viral load. They then went home and infected their wider families. Which is why, as London is overwhelmed, we need to shut everything down to save the rest of the UK. We are a week at most behind London.

Our sympathies go out to the families affected in London and the critical care teams battling right now to save as many as they can.

If I sit with one person and catch this virus, I get a small viral load. My immune system will start to fight it and by the time the virus starts replicating, I’m ready to kill it.

No medicines will help this process meaningfully hence there is no “cure” for this virus. All we can do is support you with a ventilator and hope your immune system can catch up fast enough.

If I sit in the same room with six people, all shedding I get six times the initial dose. The rise in viral load is faster than my immune system can cope with and it is overrun. I then become critically ill and need me (or someone of my specialty) to fix it instead of just being at home and being ok in the end.

THIS BIT IS IMPORTANT:

If you are a large family group, remember that by being ill and in the same room, you will make each other ill or “more ill”. If you get sick, isolate just yourself to one room and stay there. Don’t all sit in one room coughing. You will increase the viral load for all of you, reducing your survival rate.

A family of six people may produce double the droplets of a family of three in the same space. Maths is important.

If one of you is symptomatic, assume you are all shedding and make sure you keep some space.

Parents are getting it from their kids because no one is going to stop comforting their child (nor should they) so the parent gets a big hit as well as the child. I don’t think that can be helped.

REMEMBER: THINK ABOUT VIRAL LOAD

It could save your life or your child’s.

Coventry and Warwickshire - it’s up to you now. We are preparing for the worst but we are hoping for the best from you. Please help us to help you. Stay home and take this seriously now before we need the army on the streets to remind you. Yes I’m serious.

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  #117 (permalink)
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I just got caught up on my morning reading of COVID-19 posts, and I am sure there will be more.

I am tiptoeing in here, not as a mod but as someone who has a regard for civility and mutual tolerance and respect.

I have my opinions, and often want to just stand up and shout them.

Everyone is deeply affected by this, and we are certainly all going to be hit, and many totally ruined, by the economics of it. Also, a lot of people have died and are going to die, and it is not just a bad type of flu. This is not exaggeration on either point.

Things can easily spiral out of hand as views are shared, and I am hoping for some restraint. This may be hard, and I have bitten my tongue a few times this morning already.

For example, I am in an age group that is statistically at high risk (not the oldest group, but getting up there ) and so are some others here that I know of. I have a close family member who is not only of that age, but who is taking immune suppressing drugs due to an organ transplant. He will just flatly die if he gets something like this. OK, this is only one guy, and there are only a few old people around anyway, right?.... But somehow I don't see it that way.

So I'm controlling my emotions, and I hope we will all do this, and that we come out of this with as many still healthy -- and alive -- as possible, and that the economic damage is minimized. And that, here on FIO especially, we have respect for those of us who have different points of view. Whether we agree with them on their opinion or not, it makes sense to them.

Again, this is not an official "From Bob the Moderator" post, and also you have no idea how much restraint I had to find in order to keep it on an even emotional keel. Thanks for reading, and keep calm and carry on.

Bob.

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bobwest View Post
I just got caught up on my morning reading of COVID-19 posts, and I am sure there will be more.

I am tiptoeing in here, not as a mod but as someone who has a regard for civility and mutual tolerance and respect.

I have my opinions, and often want to just stand up and shout them.

Everyone is deeply affected by this, and we are certainly all going to be hit, and many totally ruined, by the economics of it. Also, a lot of people have died and are going to die, and it is not just a bad type of flu. This is not exaggeration on either point.

Things can easily spiral out of hand as views are shared, and I am hoping for some restraint. This may be hard, and I have bitten my tongue a few times this morning already.

For example, I am in an age group that is statistically at high risk (not the oldest group, but getting up there ) and so are some others here that I know of. I have a close family member who is not only of that age, but who is taking immune suppressing drugs due to an organ transplant. He will just flatly die if he gets something like this. OK, this is only one guy, and there are only a few old people around anyway, right?.... But somehow I don't see it that way.

So I'm controlling my emotions, and I hope we will all do this, and that we come out of this with as many still healthy -- and alive -- as possible, and that the economic damage is minimized. And that, here on FIO especially, we have respect for those of us who have different points of view. Whether we agree with them on their opinion or not, it makes sense to them.

Again, this is not an official "From Bob the Moderator" post, and also you have no idea how much restraint I had to find in order to keep it on an even emotional keel. Thanks for reading, and keep calm and carry on.

Bob.

I understand and as effort to not be bringer of panic I will avoid posting anything panic driven or anything controversial.

We all appreciate your efforts here, I do admit this has turn into bit of spam fest. That's not right for serious topic of this level. I apologies here if I've offended here with my tone, I'm hardly that kind of individual, I'm in all your care

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  #119 (permalink)
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LastDino View Post
I understand and as effort to not be bringer of panic I will avoid posting anything panic driven or anything controversial.

We all appreciate your efforts here, I do admit this has turn into bit of spam fest. That's not right for serious topic of this level. I apologies here if I've offended here with my tone, I'm hardly that kind of individual, I'm in all your care

Thanks.

Controversy is fine. It just means different views get discussed, which they should. It's just a matter of how we do it.

Bob.

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  #120 (permalink)
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bobwest View Post
Thanks.

Controversy is fine. It just means different views get discussed, which they should. It's just a matter of how we do it.

Bob.

I definitely want to be part of the conversation but with an aim an helpfulness not panic...I put LastDino on my ignore list after a few fear provoking posts...I didn't have hard feelings or "dislike" him/her I just have the ability to screen, and take responsibility for, what I allow into my brain. I am a critical thinker and my first thought when i see info is "where is this coming from".

I heard several people the other day talking about the "stupid people" hoarding TP etc (not on FIO) and then a woman spoke up and said "there are no stupid people in this case" just people who are scared and don't know what to do. And I began to have more compassion for them. I have a strong spiritual practice and community and have pondered my mortality extensively. I live with the realization that any breath could be my last...and so I make sure that in that moment I have no regrets or undone stuff. But many many (most?) people never think about these things until something life threatening comes along and are then fully caught unprepared.

So, I agree with Bob. If we are going to be part of this community (and the bigger community at large...and the world community even) then lets recognize the truth..we are ALL in this one together...and that might be the only good thing to come out of this pandemic. Imagine a world afterward if we can remember that fact and treat everyone as we would like to be treated.

Wow, maybe too much coffee...I had NO intention of ranting that much. I hope you and your loved ones are healthy and safe today,
Craig

We all have two lives...the second one starts when we realize...we only have one.
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  #121 (permalink)
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sixtyseven View Post
This was taken down by Medium because it was misleading bullshit. It was written by Aaron Ginn, a Silicon Valley technologist who has worked in Republican party politics

The article was republished here: https://www.zerohedge.com/health/covid-19-evidence-over-hysteria

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  #122 (permalink)
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Elon and Tesla/SpaceX stepping up

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https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/local/2020/03/22/kentucky-sen-rand-paul-tests-positive-covid-19/2894959001/

LOUISVILLE, Ky. —*Republican Rand Paul is the first sitting member of the U.S. Senate to contract*COVID-19 after the Kentucky lawmaker's office revealed he tested positive on Sunday.

"Senator Rand Paul has tested positive for COVID-19," the office announced*via Twitter. "He is feeling fine and is in quarantine. He is asymptomatic and was tested out of an abundance of caution due to his extensive travel and events. He was not aware of any direct contact with any infected person."



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  #124 (permalink)
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Reuters: Ecuador coronavirus cases increase by over 400 in less than a week, health minister quits.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-ecuador/ecuador-coronavirus-cases-increase-by-over-400-in-less-than-a-week-health-minister-quits-idUSKBN21904T?feedType=mktg&feedName=healthNews&WT.mc_id=Partner-Google

President Lenin Moreno said on Friday night the government would be offering economic aid to the country's most vulnerable, including directly giving $60 for two months to families earning less than $400 a month. The government would also partner with the private sector to pride relief, while banks would offering lines of credit to small businesses.*


-----

Wow, can you imagine -- $60/mo is supposed to make the difference. Here, a basic salary is now $400/mo. We pay our housekeeper about 50% more than that, but it's pure generosity and everyone thinks we are crazy.

During this time, we told her to stay home with her family. She lives in a house with no toilet. They do their business into a bucket, then take it outside and bury it in a hole. They were about to buy a toilet and get plumbing before this all happened.

We told her that we would continue paying her salary while she is home. We've transferred it to her bank account. We also have given her an advance, to make sure she has money to buy extra supplies for her family.

She was unable to find transportation to the grocery store or pharmacy on Friday, as all public transport is halted and she doesn't have a car in her immediate family that was permitted to drive on Friday.

We did, so we purchased groceries for her family. We also purchased medication for her daughter with Lupus, and gave her some masks and purell that we had. My wife delivered everything to them to their house (using precautions).

During this time, it's important we all do our part to help those in need.

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  #125 (permalink)
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We did, so we purchased groceries for her family. We also purchased medication for her daughter with Lupus, and gave her some masks and purell that we had. My wife delivered everything to them to their house (using precautions).

During this time, it's important we all do our part to help those in need.

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way to step up. if her daughter takes hydroxychloroquine, there could be shortages near term:

https://www.propublica.org/article/lupus-patients-cant-get-crucial-medication-after-president-trump-pushes-unproven-coronavirus-treatment

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In our (my wife's) immediate family, my mother-in-law is most at risk, followed by myself due to my immunodeficiency. I'm immunocompromised due to a biologic I'm taking (Cosentyx) for PsA.

So, my wife has been doing all the grocery and pharmacy shopping for everyone, including her sister, brother-in-law, and two nephews.

My wife is very concerned about me because if I were to get sick, it's impossible to get good treatment. All the private clinics that we could pay for or our insurance cover, are closed and not permitted to accept COVID-19 patients. Only the government facilities are permitted. And those facilities are terrible. They don't even allow any family members to accompany you, so it could be a challenge for me to comminate with a medical vocabulary I don't usually use. Making matters worse, I'm on several medications that they would have no knowledge about as they are not available here, especially the biologic drug.

And, we can't fly to Miami because there are no flights!

So anyway, my wife is a bit overwhelmed right now with the responsibility to not allow me to get sick. Or her mom. If/when I get sick and it's severe, we want to be able to hop on a flight to Miami, meaning we need travel restrictions lifted.

Anyway, I would love to hear how fellow FIO members are stepping up and helping those in need. I know our community is full of generous people.
brightside View Post
way to step up. if her daughter takes hydroxychloroquine, there could be shortages near term:

https://www.propublica.org/article/lupus-patients-cant-get-crucial-medication-after-president-trump-pushes-unproven-coronavirus-treatment

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Public service announcement:

Watch the 2017 documentary Unseen Enemy. You can find it on Amazon Prime.

Drop what you are doing and watch it right now......

Ron


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The line just to enter the grocery store here in Manta.

Luckily, we have everything to last two weeks. This was sent in a WhatsApp group.

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Quoting 
13:34 (US) NIH's Fauci: warns against push to restart US economy - Source TradeTheNews.com

Ron

...My calamity is My providence, outwardly it is fire and vengeance, but inwardly it is light and mercy...
The steed of this Valley is pain; and if there be no pain this journey will never end.
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Mega-trial in France on 800 patients of hopeful covid-19 therapy (Hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin) , directed by an international authority in the mattter (Pr Didier Raoult).


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Didier_Raoult



first results :







https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924857920300996

Keep safe.

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Trump wanting to ease the restrictions at the end of the 15-day period. Who do you think will win out?
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Ron

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geott View Post
Mega-trial in France on 800 patients of hopeful covid-19 therapy (Hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin) , directed by an international authority in the mattter (Pr Didier Raoult).


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Didier_Raoult



first results :







https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924857920300996

Keep safe.

Our national medical bodies have also issued directives regarding dosage and administration of this

Complete instructions are in file attached with authoritative sign.

Word of caution: This drug has some serious side effects so do not under any cost administer without doctors guidance who is aware of your medical history.

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  #133 (permalink)
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Trump wanting to ease the restrictions at the end of the 15-day period. Who do you think will win out?

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I think Trump will at least want to declare victory, and that the people who actually have to deal with the situation, the mayors and governors, will tell people to stay put, or will probably even tighten.

In that fight, the local authorities probably will win, but things could get messy, and in some places the locals will relax or not impose restrictions, and there will be more chaos and worse results, at least in some areas.

I really, really hope that Trump doesn't try it though. They will not get the economy going again by sending people back to work too early. Just more people will die, and we'll have to pull back again and will be in worse shape because of it.

The urgency about the economy is understandable, but there really is a serious disease condition out there, and no amount of denialism is going to change the facts on the ground. Only fact-based, medically sound action will.

Bob.

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  #134 (permalink)
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There's a lot of un-logic gong on.

In Canada they are telling the people to social distance of 6 ft - like when a grocery store. But people have not been advised to wear masks and some believe masks are actually working against the spread/catching it.

So what do people think, why are they keeping 6 ft distancing?
Well because it can spread through the air?
Well then why no t wear a mask?
-- uh because "they" said not to.
(who is they? is it the director of NIS appearing wearing a mask upside down and inside out?)


Get yourself a little spray bottle and fill it with vodka. Put on your mask and spray the outside of it, so it is moist and will trap kill the airborne. (don't use rubbing alcohol - that is poisonous)


There are two parts to wearing a mask. One is protecting you the other is protecting others.

If you have the virus and you cough or sneeze you can minimize the airborne droplets. Even if you are young and healthy if you catch it you are then a carrier spreading it - killing someone else's grandfather or grandmother or overweight with breathing problems.

Before entering the house - especially entering an at-risk persons home if you are delivering food or medicine-
stand still, close your eyes and spray yourself - to (hopefully) help kill the virus on you and your clothes.

..........
peace, love and joy to you
.........
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A lengthy investigative report in Reuters found that the White House ordered the elimination of a key American Center for Disease Control (CDC) position in Beijing intended to monitor and study disease outbreaks in China.

The American disease expert, a medical epidemiologist embedded in China’s disease control agency, left her post in July.

Dr. Linda Quick, part of whose job involved training the very Chinese field epidemiologists later deployed to virus hot zones in Wuhan and elsewhere across the country. She would have been the US "eyes and ears" on the ground had she been allowed to stay.

“If someone had been there, public health officials and governments across the world could have moved much faster,” a prior top CDC expert who had occupied the now nixed position prior to 2012, Bao-Ping Zhu, told Reuters.

The post and the program, which was called U.S. Field Epidemiology Training Program in China, was officially defunded in September, while unexplained clusters of pneumonia later linked to the Covid-19 outbreak begain popping up in Wuhan province on Dec. 31.

source: ZH
https://www.zerohedge.com/health/white-house-axed-cdcs-eyes-ears-ground-china-months-outbrea

..........
peace, love and joy to you
.........
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Quoting 
14:48 [AMZN] Amazon Care to provide delivery and pick-up of at-home COVID-19 test sample kits in Seattle trial (update) Link: https://techcrunch.com/2020/03/23/amazon-care-to-provide-delivery-and-pick-up-of-at-home-covid-19-test-sample-kits-in-seattle-trial/ - Source TradeTheNews.com

Ron

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The steed of this Valley is pain; and if there be no pain this journey will never end.
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I did a bunch of reading lately and here are some things I learned:
SARS-CoV-2 (Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2) is the actual name of the virus. COVID-19 is the name of the illness it causes.
It is one of three types of coronavirus. The two others are SARS (same acronym as above) and MERS (Middle East Respiratory Syndrome).

The below article states “coronaviruses can persist on inanimate surfaces like metal, glass or plastic for up to 9 days”

https://www.journalofhospitalinfection.com/article/S0195-670130046-3/fulltext

The diameter of the virus is between 50-200 nm. From this article:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-673630211-7/fulltext

So, regular type face mask won’t do the trick. There has been some confusion around this point regarding UNICEF.

Ron


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The steed of this Valley is pain; and if there be no pain this journey will never end.
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Quoting 
17:15 (US) President Trump: America will be open for business sooner than 3-4 months; Will decide on timing and how we will reopen after 15 day period; won't let coronavirus turn into long lasting problem; will announce osme (I think this is "some") dateline in near future; Govt to obtain large quantities of chloroquine
- Continuing to work with both parties for stimulus bill
- Senate needs to stop with partisan politics - FEMA to hand out 8M respirator masks, 13.3M surgical masks
- Clinical trials will start in NY on existing drugs that may fight coronavirus
- Social distancing guidelines to end after 15 day period
- REAL ID requirements to be delayed
- Congress getting closer on stimulus
- Will designate certain medical supplies as scarce under price gouging laws
- Urges senate to make a deal on stimulus
- Administration to review scope of cooperation with Afghanistan
- Some areas of the country are very lightly affected
- Will announce soon timing of measures to ease coronavirus
- Will open up country soon, not looking at months
- US governors will have leeway to make decisions
- Boeing is going to need some help
- Barr addressing executive orders about price gouging - Source TradeTheNews.com

chloroquine is the Malaria drug

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/man-dies-after-ingesting-chloroquine-attempt-prevent-coronavirus-n1167166

Ron

...My calamity is My providence, outwardly it is fire and vengeance, but inwardly it is light and mercy...
The steed of this Valley is pain; and if there be no pain this journey will never end.
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Let's see in another week

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Let's see in another weekAttachment 291342

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I honestly think all these countries are lying about reporting. Every one has a vested interest to not be 100% truthful. That includes the US.

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We're quite remote in our part of the country so there's not much we can do except stay isolated, but in the spirit of helping out (and lightening the mood here a bit) we are fostering two abandoned dogs (brothers) from our "local" shelter (still 30 minutes away.)



Their paperwork claims they are an Australian shepherd/border collie mix, but I think I see a little retriever in them as well...



Rooster (blue eyes) is very bright. Colt (mostly white) is more of a knucklehead LOL...



Both are very affectionate.



That said, three dogs in a 700sf cabin is really pushing it! Josie is not impressed...


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kevinkdog View Post
I honestly think all these countries are lying about reporting. Every one has a vested interest to not be 100% truthful. That includes the US.

Do you mean countries are overstating or do you mean they are understating the figures?

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xplorer View Post
Do you mean countries are overstating or do you mean they are understating the figures?

Possibly both, but the incentives to understate are probably greater.

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There's a lot of un-logic gong on.

some believe masks are actually working against the spread/catching it.
There are two parts to wearing a mask. One is protecting you the other is protecting others.


there is a controversy in my country about wearing mask or not,
following, some studies about mask efficiency (home-made mask, surgical mask, ffp2 mask) , decide for yourself :

https://www.lanutrition.fr/coronavirus-les-masques-maison-sont-ils-efficaces
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2440799/








aquarian1 View Post

Get yourself a little spray bottle and fill it with vodka. Put on your mask and spray the outside of it

it would be annoying for me to sacrifice some 12 years old scotch wiskey, no , beeing confined myself with my family for 10 days , going out (to grocery store) i use gloves, mask and Sanytol spray (killing 99.9% bacteria and virus)(hypoallergenic).


Another point, infected surfaces and lifespan of the virus (from hours to 9 days, 4 days on average).
Even if in my local hypermarket all employees are wearing mask and gloves (but what about some neglected customers ?), i am following a strict protocol (advice given by my family doctor) : coming back from grocery store , most of all items are stored in my garage for 5 days and kept untouched.
The cold lengthens the life of the virus, always washing hands after getting out perishable goods of the freezer.


Keep safe.

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Word of caution: This drug has some serious side effects so do not under any cost administer without doctors guidance who is aware of your medical history.



About Hydroxychloroquine toxicity , "the world is going crazy" , the last announcement of Pr Raoult (not perfect, many translation errors but use english subtitles)



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Can you imagine being in “blinding pain” for weeks, constantly gasping for air as you feel like you are being suffocated, and screaming for mercy because you are in so much constant torment? As you will see below, coronavirus survivors are telling us about their hellish ordeals, and they are warning us to do everything that we can to avoid this virus. Of course they are the lucky ones. As I detailed in another article, the global death toll has doubled over the past six days, and so far the very high death rate in the United States is extremely alarming. So those that survive should consider themselves to be very fortunate, but many of those same individuals will be left with permanent lung damage.

This virus attacks the respiratory system with a ferocity that is shocking doctors, and those that are still attempting to claim that COVID-19 is “just like the flu” need to stop, because they are just making things worse.

Researchers have found that this virus has an incubation period of up to 24 days, and people can spread it around long before they are showing any symptoms.

And you don’t even have to encounter someone with the virus to catch it. According to Bloomberg, new research has discovered that this virus can remain on surfaces “for as many as 17 days”…

Traces of new coronavirus were found on surfaces in cruise-ship cabins for as many as 17 days after passengers left, researchers said, though it wasn’t possible to determine whether they caused any infections.

Researchers looked at the rooms of infected passengers aboard the Diamond Princess, both those who showed symptoms and those who didn’t, according to a study Monday in the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report.

When you combine those two factors, it makes COVID-19 nearly impossible to contain.

This is a major emergency, and it makes me angry that there are prominent voices out there that are still trying to downplay this pandemic. As a result, many people are not taking proper precautions, and a lot of them are going to end up catching the virus.

If you are reading this and you still don’t think that COVID-19 is a big deal, please take a moment to consider the following five stories about coronavirus survivors…
#1 26-year-old Fiona Lowenstein

That night I woke up in the middle of the night with chills, vomiting, and shortness of breath. By Monday, I could barely speak more than a few words without feeling like I was gasping for air. I couldn’t walk to the bathroom without panting as if I’d run a mile. On Monday evening, I tried to eat, but found I couldn’t get enough oxygen while doing so. Any task that was at all anxiety-producing — even resetting my MyChart password to communicate with my doctor — left me desperate for oxygen.

#2 55-year-old Kevin Harris

“Imagine your lungs turning solid. It’s like suffocating without holding your nose,” said Harris, who owns an auto body shop and typically runs 5 miles every day.

“Every time I lay down, my breathing gets lower and lower. I thought my lungs would fail me. I was screaming for mercy and praying to God.”

#3 25-year-old Connor Reed

A Welshman who caught the coronavirus in China has described how the deadly disease hit him “like a train” leaving him “suffocating” and in blinding pain for weeks.

Connor Reed, from Llandudno, got ill while working as an English teacher in Wuhan.

The 25-year-old described how it started as “just a sniffle” on November 25 – a month before authorities officially announced the virus – but over the next three-and-a-half weeks he got increasingly ill and was unable to move.

#4 39-year-old Tara Jane Langston

‘It’s like having glass in your lungs, it’s hard to explain, but every breath is a battle.

‘It’s absolutely horrible and I wouldn’t want to go through anything like this ever again. I’d been ill for about five days before I was taken to hospital in an ambulance.

‘I’d originally been diagnosed with a chest infection and given antibiotics and advised to take ibuprofen and paracetamol. I was taking about eight ibuprofen a day and they now think that that exacerbated the problem.

#5 A 12-year-old girl in Georgia named Emma

Emma, a 12-year-old girl, is “fighting for her life” in an Atlanta hospital after testing positive for the coronavirus, according to her cousin.

Justin Anthony told CNN that Emma was diagnosed with pneumonia on March 15 and tested positive for coronavirus on Friday night. As of Saturday, she was on a ventilator and is currently in stable condition, Anthony said.

As you can see, this virus is not just hitting “old people” extremely hard.

But if you are above the age of 60, please understand that you at very high risk, and you need to stay away from public places for the foreseeable future.

I know that it can be hard to stay home day after day, but this is truly a very, very deadly virus.

At this point, even doctors and nurses are “scared to go to work”…

Doctors and nurses on the front lines of the fight against the coronavirus in the United States say it’s “the first time” they’ve been scared to go to work. With a shortage of personal protective equipment, some have resorted to using bandanas to cover their faces.

“It’s the first time we’ve ever been truly scared to come to work, but despite being scared we are trained to save lives and we’re committed to doing that,” Dr. Cornelia Griggs, a surgeon in New York City, told “CBS This Morning.” “I’m embarrassed to say, but prior to this, my husband and I had never gotten around to writing a will, but this weekend that became one of our to-do list items.”

As I have been writing this article, over 2,000 more confirmed cases were added to the rapidly growing total here in the United States. And as I discussed yesterday, it looks like the U.S. is going to have a very high death rate just like we are seeing in western European countries such as Italy and Spain.

So please take this pandemic very seriously. A lot of Americans are going to die, and it is going to be a great national tragedy.

Please pray for those that have caught the virus and are deeply suffering. It is in our darkest moments that we need a miracle the most, and there are a whole lot of people out there that need one right now.

https://www.zerohedge.com/health/its-not-just-flu-heres-why-you-definitely-dont-want-catch-covid-19

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On masks:

I read an article commenting on a video by the director of NHS telling people wearing masks could be "dangerous" if not properly used. He wore the mask on inside out and upside down in the video. Then he went on to say don't use masks because we need them (hospital staff).

I would like to highlight I mentioned spraying the outside of the mask with Vodka.

Why?

2 reasons:
1. the wet mask catches the airborne droplets better and (hopefully) disinfects them
2. when you take it off you are taking off a dis-infected mask (but still wash yours hands).

One needs to accept the reality that the "health" authorities lie and misrepresent the truth plus they haven't a grain of common sense.

Certainly, a loose fitting mask is not as good as a proper one. I have a good quality mask with an air-tight rubber gasket around the mouth and nose and it has two breathing filters on each side. I bought it several years back in preparation for a pandemic.

I thought it was good enough for vapours (you know like Varathane when doing construction work) but my friend told me it is good for fine dust particles - not vapours.

(I bought it in a hardware store along with extra filters. (In an earthquake you need a mask to prevent choking on drywall dust. )

But on the commonsense part - in January the govt should have bought thousands of masks for the public and made them available later. They should have prepared. They should have closed borders then. Everyone from the epicenter should have been put into a government quarantine facility. They should have recommend that people with enough money buy a little extra non-perishable food at each trip --- in January and in that way the poor who cannot afford to stock up would not find empty shelves. They should have identified unused motels and rented then as virus treatment centers - not send people to the hospital to infect others and the staff. They should have testing centers - like the drive through and others - just for testing and nowhere near a hospital. The list goes on and on.

But lapping up established authority crap (especially medical authorities) is very dangerous. Use your own brain and own common sense.

How many nurses and doctors do you see without masks?

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paraphrasing Pr Raoult's recommandation :

President Trump: "We must try hydroxychloroquine & azithromycin."

New York Gov. Cuomo: "We must try hydroxychloroquine & azithromycin."

FDA more sceptical.

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images



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geott View Post
it would be annoying for me to sacrifice some 12 years old scotch wiskey, no , beeing confined myself with my family for 10 days

Sounds like a good opportunity to tap into it, but I'd find something else to put on the mask

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Rrrracer View Post
Sounds like a good opportunity to tap into it, but I'd find something else to put on the mask

If you are wondering for options, aftershave does work

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Quoting 
13:23 CNBC's Tausche: This morning, Pres. Trump and VP Pence held an investor call with Wall Street heavyweights to discuss the markets, the Federal Reserve, and economic reopening.
- Discussed on the call, per a source close to the president: What the Fed can do to keep parts of the debt markets, in particular, from "seizing up."
- They discussed when would be appropriate to reopen the US economy. Pres. Trump acknowledged it couldn't happen right away but that he didn't want it shut for six months. - Source TradeTheNews.com

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aquarian1 View Post
Get yourself a little spray bottle and fill it with vodka. Put on your mask and spray the outside of it, so it is moist and will trap kill the airborne. (don't use rubbing alcohol - that is poisonous)

They are both poisons. One in a smaller quantity the other in a larger.

Ron




aquarian1 View Post
There's a lot of un-logic gong on.

In Canada they are telling the people to social distance of 6 ft - like when a grocery store. But people have not been advised to wear masks and some believe masks are actually working against the spread/catching it.

So what do people think, why are they keeping 6 ft distancing?
Well because it can spread through the air?
Well then why no t wear a mask?
-- uh because "they" said not to.
(who is they? is it the director of NIS appearing wearing a mask upside down and inside out?)


Get yourself a little spray bottle and fill it with vodka. Put on your mask and spray the outside of it, so it is moist and will trap kill the airborne. (don't use rubbing alcohol - that is poisonous)


There are two parts to wearing a mask. One is protecting you the other is protecting others.

If you have the virus and you cough or sneeze you can minimize the airborne droplets. Even if you are young and healthy if you catch it you are then a carrier spreading it - killing someone else's grandfather or grandmother or overweight with breathing problems.

Before entering the house - especially entering an at-risk persons home if you are delivering food or medicine-
stand still, close your eyes and spray yourself - to (hopefully) help kill the virus on you and your clothes.


...My calamity is My providence, outwardly it is fire and vengeance, but inwardly it is light and mercy...
The steed of this Valley is pain; and if there be no pain this journey will never end.
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Ron


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...My calamity is My providence, outwardly it is fire and vengeance, but inwardly it is light and mercy...
The steed of this Valley is pain; and if there be no pain this journey will never end.
Buy Low And Sell High (read left to right or right to left....lol)
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Must see video.....seriously.....




Ron


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...My calamity is My providence, outwardly it is fire and vengeance, but inwardly it is light and mercy...
The steed of this Valley is pain; and if there be no pain this journey will never end.
Buy Low And Sell High (read left to right or right to left....lol)
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South Korea, who have conducted 360k tests (26 positive / 1,000 tests). are among the countries which are closest to having identified all true cases. Taking an aggressive death approach of 7 days (it can be 2 to 8 weeks from symptoms to death) - their mortality rate is 1.5% (todays death toll = 126. 8,565 confirmed cases 7 days ago). Each day further out i.e 8, 9, 10 results in a higher mortality rate.

Other countries with high testing rates (less than 12 positives / 1,000 tests) are Taiwan, Belarus, UAE, Vietnam, Singapore and Bahrain. Their combined mortality rate is 1.0% (9 deaths, and 912 confirmed cases 7 days ago). Small numbers to be sure.

Using the same basis. US has 784 deaths and 7 days ago 9,415 cases. That's 8.3%. This points to a massive under capture of true cases.
Assuming a 1.4% death rate and 15% daily growth it's 150k true cases today, if its a 1.0% death rate and 30% daily growth its 470k today. If a more accurate offset is 10 days, rather than 7 days from onset to death, then true cases are even higher again.

I wonder how many of the actual unconfirmed (mostly mild / asymptomatic) are self isolating?

The US is screwed in terms of containing covid.

Due to piss-poor management it would seem the US's only hope is the discovery of a quick cure vaccine.

in absence of a vaccine some will say there is a case to just to get on with it for the sake of the economy and take the 1.6m+/- deaths (assuming half the country is infected at 1% mortality), rather than being half-assed with a lockdown. For context 2.4m+ US die each year anyway. Covid just speeds that process up for many of them. Hard to say what the net effect of covid deaths is after you take into account those who's number was already up.

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...but as someone living on ground location, I can pretty much see the ill-prepared and seating ducks everywhere.

What is your assessment of India's upcoming lockdown?

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What is your assessment of India's upcoming lockdown?

Public monitoring site is down, my contacts who are doctors suspect that there is "Stage 3" break out in some cities already. Stage 3 means we can find an infected person in city that can not recall or tell where he might have got it from and there is nothing in his history that makes it evident for one tracing it back.

Lock down has been on for more than week already, it was called "Janata Curfew" which was slightly more moderate, yesterday it was case of extending it by 21 more days and making it more stricter, my view is that it will be again extended in period till somewhere mid Jun in one way or another. Its more like they have to, we have less than 100k critical beds in entire country of 1.3 bn, and approx 20% population over 50.

Our problem is that we are late by 4 weeks, I also do think that we are in for some horrible time for at least 6 more months, especially when this virus makes come back after summer. Which RNA based flue viruses do with bit of mutation. (Your usual cold virus is also RNA based which mutates every single year and infects you again)

Saving grace is that we now have testing kit produced locally, news came out just this morning about this. Which should improve our rate of testing which was 1 per 1 million till today. Pathetic right? But the problem was testing kit was imported before this and its really not that easy to get.

All in all, hard steps are taken and they will have to keep at it for 6 months, only necessary supply lines are kept live and everything else is shutdown. Majority of public is also very cordially following this, its just that there are always some buffoons somewhere who think just because they are young they are immune. Actually this has become bit of problem as some people just refuse to take precautions and follow government orders, that's where police is coming in and eventually military will too.

I'm hoping for best, we are still relatively safe till numbers are not in thousands and people are not panicking.

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Yesterday , Albert Uderzo , french creator of Asterix & Obelix has died.RIP.

https://edition.cnn.com/style/article/asterix-obelix-albert-uderzo-dies-intl-scli/index.html

This is an extract of one of his last comic strip published in 2017 : "Asterix et la Trans-Italique"





where Asterix & Obelix have to fight with their worst enemy : Coronavirus ....in Italia.


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geott View Post
Yesterday , Albert Uderzo , french creator of Asterix & Obelix has died.RIP.

https://edition.cnn.com/style/article/asterix-obelix-albert-uderzo-dies-intl-scli/index.html

This is an extract of one of his last comic strip published in 2017 : "Asterix et la Trans-Italique"





where Asterix & Obelix have to fight with their worst enemy : Coronavirus ....in Italia.

R.I.P
That was one of my favorite series. Lot of nostalgic memories. Very sad to hear this.

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Quoting 
14:47 (US) White House econ adviser Kudlow: problem with language in Senate bill regarding jobless benefits will be worked out
* NOTE: Earlier: Sen Sanders (I-VT): "Unless Republican Senators drop their objections to the coronavirus legislation, I am prepared to put a hold on this bill until stronger conditions are imposed on the $500 billion corporate welfare fund."
- (US) Republican senators reportedly are calling on the White House to consider trade policy action - press -

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What is Bernie referring to, please?
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Ron

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Attached is a video broadcast several years ago by a popular science daily TV program of the Italian TV network RAI3, one of the three main channels of Italian state owned TV company.

It was broadcast in 2015 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is about Chinese … “scientists” working in one of their laboratories for engineering a new super-pneumonia virus based on SARS, that, at least to me, does seem to be planned just exactly with the same characteristics of these days virus of the current pandemic. Just 5 years later.

The video is available only in Italian, if anyone can replace Italian by overlaying a new English audio track over it, or if anyone can add English subtitles, please do it.

Check the link quick, as it may be shut down soon!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCOx-hewCcc

ps.
excusatio non petita accusatio manifesta :

https://harvardtothebighouse.com/2020/03/19/china-owns-nature-magazines-ass-debunking-the-proximal-origin-of-sars-cov-2-claiming-covid-19-wasnt-from-a-lab/

also printed in pdf attached

Attached Thumbnails
Coronavirus COVID-19-china-owns-nature-magazine-s-ass-debunking-proximal-origin-sars-cov-2-claiming-covid-.pdf  
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https://statchecker.co/coronavirus/

Different view on stats

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Searching for Sen Sanders .... will post if I can find something relevant....

now this.....

Quoting 
17:22 (US) House Speaker Pelosi (D-CA): House could act as soon as US Senate passes the stimulus, but do not think the House can pass stimulus bill under unanimous consent; House will give its members at least 24 hours notice before voting on bill (likely to be Thursday)
- Dismisses Republican objection to unemployment provision - Cannot provide more money for New York State in current stimulus bill
- There will be further legislation from Congress to address coronavirus, will have to provide more funds- Concerns raised by state govs are well founded, states will need more resources - Source TradeTheNews.com



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What is Bernie referring to, please?

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@Big Mike some more.....


Quoting 
12:20 (US) Republican Sens Scott, Sasse, Graham say they oppose fast-tracking Senate stimulus bill until they fix a 'life-threatening drafting error'
- "A massive drafting error in current version of relief legislation could have devastating consequences. Unless bill is fixed, there is strong incentive for employees to be laid off instead of going to work."
- FOLLOW UP: Sen Scott: proposing an amendment to fix the drafting error in the bil
l- FOLLOW UP: Sen Sanders threatens to delay the stimulus bill in response to GOP senators seeking a new amendment - Source TradeTheNews.com

Ron



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What is Bernie referring to, please?

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They are both poisons. One in a smaller quantity the other in a larger.

Ron

Technically true. However, one ounce a day of ethanol (as in vodka) is recommended for good health and longevity.

No one recommends methanol (rubbing alcohol) with even in small quantities can cause permanent blindness

For such an important topic I'm surprise you are splitting hairs and confusing people. Ethanol is used by hospitals in the hand disinfectant. Let's get on with helping each other.

Ethanol (also called ethyl alcohol, grain alcohol, drinking alcohol, or simply alcohol) is a chemical compound, a simple alcohol with the chemical formula C2H6O.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol

..........
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You shouldn't inhale any alcoholic vapors - your lungs were damaged. Drinking is a complete other topic. Be carefull.


aquarian1 View Post
Technically true. However, one ounce a day of ethanol (as in vodka) is recommended for good health and longevity.

No one recommends methanol (rubbing alcohol) with even in small quantities can cause permanent blindness

For such an important topic I'm surprise you are splitting hairs and confusing people. Ethanol is used by hospitals in the hand disinfectant. Let's get on with helping each other.

Ethanol (also called ethyl alcohol, grain alcohol, drinking alcohol, or simply alcohol) is a chemical compound, a simple alcohol with the chemical formula C2H6O.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol


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Ok, some Republicans are against the $600 for unemployed, and that is what Bernie is fighting for.
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@Big Mike some more.....



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Must see video.....seriously.....




Ron


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Blash, This is a very precient video. Every Govt department (State and Federal), every political party committe, every senior management team SHOULD be forced to sit down and watch this, WITH a counter/statistical graph of Wuhan Day 1 to now. Italy Day 1 to now...etc and in contrast Taiwan Day 1 to now. Pardon the capitals, but I am livid at the way that political leadership and certain employers have been treating this issue.
Thank you
S

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Awesome post @sixtyseven

Ron



sixtyseven View Post
South Korea, who have conducted 360k tests (26 positive / 1,000 tests). are among the countries which are closest to having identified all true cases. Taking an aggressive death approach of 7 days (it can be 2 to 8 weeks from symptoms to death) - their mortality rate is 1.5% (todays death toll = 126. 8,565 confirmed cases 7 days ago). Each day further out i.e 8, 9, 10 results in a higher mortality rate.



Other countries with high testing rates (less than 12 positives / 1,000 tests) are Taiwan, Belarus, UAE, Vietnam, Singapore and Bahrain. Their combined mortality rate is 1.0% (9 deaths, and 912 confirmed cases 7 days ago). Small numbers to be sure.



Using the same basis. US has 784 deaths and 7 days ago 9,415 cases. That's 8.3%. This points to a massive under capture of true cases.

Assuming a 1.4% death rate and 15% daily growth it's 150k true cases today, if its a 1.0% death rate and 30% daily growth its 470k today. If a more accurate offset is 10 days, rather than 7 days from onset to death, then true cases are even higher again.



I wonder how many of the actual unconfirmed (mostly mild / asymptomatic) are self isolating?



The US is screwed in terms of containing covid.



Due to piss-poor management it would seem the US's only hope is the discovery of a quick cure vaccine.



in absence of a vaccine some will say there is a case to just to get on with it for the sake of the economy and take the 1.6m+/- deaths (assuming half the country is infected at 1% mortality), rather than being half-assed with a lockdown. For context 2.4m+ US die each year anyway. Covid just speeds that process up for many of them. Hard to say what the net effect of covid deaths is after you take into account those who's number was already up.






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Slightly more practical view on the matter

Posting here since we are seeing too much of doom and gloom and its good to see ones in a while positive side of the things

Its very informative and worth watching


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Interactive and astonishing!..... Scroll down a bit and drag the big dot as you watch the numbers below.


https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/25/opinion/coronavirus-trump-reopen-america.html?referringSource=articleShare

Ron


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Refrigerated semi trailer for dead bodies, NYC Hospital.....

Video

https://www.nytimes.com/video/nyregion/100000007052136/coronavirus-elmhurst-hospital-queens.html?referringSource=articleShare

Ron


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I saw that too. Quite sad what the times are calling for now. We've become desensitized to it already I think, the whole country (world) is in a state of shock still.



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Blash View Post
Refrigerated semi trailer for dead bodies, NYC Hospital.....

Video

https://www.nytimes.com/video/nyregion/100000007052136/coronavirus-elmhurst-hospital-queens.html?referringSource=articleShare

Ron


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Ron, I Thanked your post, not because I liked what it is about, but because we have to be realists about this, and sometimes it is stressful just to see what is the truth on the ground. I would hate to be in the position of the ER physicians who have to cope with this and try to keep people alive.

And as the doctor mentioned in the video, they're getting younger people, 30 to 50, who are seriously ill now.

Somehow, covid denialism is a real thing. I am not making a political statement here, but a simple factual and human statement. This is what is going on, and it is not safe, nor rational, to think it will just disappear due to its economic inconvenience. The economics are also real, and are also beyond tragic. We have to do something about both, or, frankly, there will be neither a medical recovery nor an economic one.

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We've been staying isolated (call it in Quarantine) here in Canada, for roughly two weeks now.

We've done our best to avoid outside contact beyond immediate household members (that were with us), when we first heard the news about Covid-19,

Aside from 2 trips to the grocery store, one of which included a trip to the liquor store, I think we've been vigilant.

I saw this shortly after we first heard the news, so I thought I'd share it here:



In hindsight I should have shared it sooner, but I thought everyone already knew this stuff.

Be careful, be vigilant, be well.

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NYTimes

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html?referringSource=articleShare


Quoting 


The U.S. now leads the world in confirmed coronavirus cases.

Scientists warned that the United States someday would become the country hardest hit by the coronavirus pandemic. That moment arrived on Thursday.

In the United States, at least 81,321 people are known to have been infected with the coronavirus, including more than 1,000 deaths — more cases than China, Italy or any other country has seen, according to data gathered by The New York Times.


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Has anyone here tested positive for COVID-19?

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Has anyone here tested positive for COVID-19?

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Nope. Not here. Wife, 2 kids, me....all good....thanks... at least we think we would test negative...put it that way. We try and make our immune systems as strong as we can. Lots of zinc. Kale. Raw in general: Smoothies, Probiotics

We stay pretty much hunker down here at home... bought $1500 in groceries... a new full sized refrig for the garage, gave away the smaller, worked perfectly for 15 yrs, old one to our mulch guy. Wife's company has a work from home until further notice order. Kids on extended Spring Break. I'm always here just way more distractions now.

Don't know anyone with it.

Ron

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No, my work has me working 3 days a week. My wife is home, she teaches kindergarten from home now. Just staying home as much as possible. Staying as far away from everyone as possible. Hope everyone stays safe.

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So fellas, if one person has this virus anywhere in the world then why cannot it multiply and spread again if things went back to normal ? we will always be in this cycle ? one would have to elliminate it from the earth for it not to have it back.
anyone agree or disagree ?
would be interested to hear. Cheers
best
John

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Those that have it develop antibodies and can't get infected again for quite some time.

JBWTrader View Post
So fellas, if one person has this virus anywhere in the world then why cannot it multiply and spread again if things went back to normal ? we will always be in this cycle ? one would have to elliminate it from the earth for it not to have it back.
anyone agree or disagree ?
would be interested to hear. Cheers
best
John

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Covid-19 infections - New number One

As of today, USA takes the first place in the ranking ahead of China, closely followed by Italy.
Sad truth: unemployment is exploding while the economy, especially in the USA, is imploding.

The statistics are now updating better than before.
It is all about the tests:
• having them
• testing widely spread
• making the real numbers publicly available



GFIs1

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Bit technical but has very detailed info


"Herd immunity could be our way out"

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geott View Post
Mega-trial in France on 800 patients of hopeful covid-19 therapy (Hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin) , directed by an international authority in the mattter (Pr Didier Raoult).


geott View Post
paraphrasing Pr Raoult's recommandation :

President Trump: "We must try hydroxychloroquine & azithromycin."

New York Gov. Cuomo: "We must try hydroxychloroquine & azithromycin."

FDA more sceptical.


After dither, hesitation between government, politicians even in the medical community (missing scientific testing standard) the treatment is expanded on all the territory for all patients.
let's see the statistics in few weeks (flattened curve), let's hope it could be a standard for other nations.

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it would be interesting a pool to count how many are actually trading or living in lockdown mode. I live in Italy and we can't go out for any reason but food/medicine. After one week It's starting to suck, and luckly I was one of the few left that were allowed to work up one week ago.

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geott View Post
After dither, hesitation between government, politicians even in the medical community (missing scientific testing standard) the treatment is expanded on all the territory for all patients.
let's see the statistics in few weeks (flattened curve), let's hope it could be a standard for other nations.

If this is the study, it tested vastly less than 800 patients, namely 20 :
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924857920300996
Its a technical report and I do not pretend to be am expert

"Results
..........Six patients were asymptomatic, 22 had upper respiratory tract infection symptoms and eight had lower respiratory tract infection symptoms.

Twenty cases were treated in this study and showed a significant reduction of the viral carriage at D6-post inclusion compared to controls, and much lower average carrying duration than reported of untreated patients in the literature. Azithromycin added to hydroxychloroquine was significantly more efficient for virus elimination......"

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sienna View Post
If this is the study, it tested vastly less than 800 patients, namely 20 :
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924857920300996
Its a technical report and I do not pretend to be am expert

this is why it has been controversial but coming from a world expert, let's hope.

https://www.cbs19news.com/story/41922088/prof-didier-raoult-discusses-coronavirus-and-chloroquine

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geott View Post
this is why it has been controversial but coming from a world expert, let's hope.

https://www.cbs19news.com/story/41922088/prof-didier-raoult-discusses-coronavirus-and-chloroquine

Hi Geott,
This is worth reading IMHO. It gives context on why the study (and the idea of taking this drug cocktail) seems to be highly suspect:
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/are-hydroxychloroquine-and-azithromycin-an-effective-treatment-for-covid-19/
Might stop here, on this topic.
thanks

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Big Mike View Post
Has anyone here tested positive for COVID-19?

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Weathering it fine so far.

No symptoms, no test. Tests are still hard to come by, so I don't want to contribute to overloading the system when I have nothing to make me feel I need it. I'm holding on, which is what most should be doing now.

I think it is important to not magnify the mental or emotional burden unnecessarily. The protocols we need to follow are pretty simple and are well-known.

I'm in it for the long haul, have necessities laid in and won't be going out except to walk the dog or to resupply until it's over.

People have made it through much harder times before this.

You have to do your part, and once you are doing it then you have nothing else to do. If my number comes up, it comes up, but I will do what I can in the meantime, which pretty much simply means not to be part of the problem, by staying out of circulation and by social distancing and washing hands. This is my part in this. Others have a bigger job, and I salute them.

I hope everyone stays safe.

Bob.

--------------

Edited to make sure it's clear that I do not have a positive test, nor any symptoms. Anyone who does will, I am sure, follow medical advice about what to do next.

This is a very serious situation world-wide, and I hope everyone takes it seriously and contributes to the solution, not to the problem.

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So far, so good in the woods, no symptoms and no tests on any of us... pretty much following the same protocol as @bobwest, although we are due to restock sometime next week which should be interesting.

Basically we've been laying low and keeping exposure to a minimum. As far as business is concerned, I still get parts deliveries here to the shop but have had a few get delayed. I also have work lined up thru April, but the schedule has been volatile. Everyone is waiting to see what shakes loose before they commit to a date, I've had to shuffle a lot of things but at least still have work to do.

So that's our course, slow and steady. Glad to hear you guys are hanging in there and doing well.

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Quoting 
14:32 [DIS] Says Disneyland and Disney World theme parks will remain closed until further notice - press - Will continue to pay theme park employees ('cast members') through April 18th -

Ron

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https://datastudio.google.com/reporting/f56febd8-5c42-4191-bcea-87a3396f4508

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China virus police state precursor?

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too much on this so i watch these at night :-)

ARE YOU BEING SERVED?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIHFK9n9Gss&list=RDwIHFK9n9Gss&start_radio=1&t=0

keep smiling we'll get through this together.

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/03/27/coronavirus-latest-news/

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I found this interesting, let me know what you think.











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@Big Mike, thanks for posting this.

The first case, the unrestrained one, went by too fast for me to see the percentage of deaths, but after watching it a few times I think it was over 10% of the population. The other cases, where there were more restrictions, got better and better, depending on how much restriction was imposed. The full-on lockdown was very low, for instance, and I remember one of the intermediate cases was in the 2.5 percentage range. (I hate it when people make images for their graphic appeal, but don't include text that stays put so I can think about it....)

The current US population is around 330 million. Multiply that by any percentage that you want, and the number gets mind-boggling.

This is only a mathematical simulation based on some simple assumptions, so it is artificial to a degree. But that is how you figure out possible outcomes: make assumptions, the simpler the better, and run them out to see what they imply. Then you have to see how well you can match it to observed reality.

This kind of thing is very important because it just lays out some consequences to think about. It is true, as many are saying, that the harm to the economy of businesses being closed and of people staying out is enormous, and this fact does make it seem more reasonable to just open things back up to save the economy, and, if necessary, accept the medical consequences, on the theory that the economy could sustain them better than it can manage people simply withdrawing from most economic activity.

Multiply 330 million by 2 percent and see how reasonable a risk it is. I get 6.6 million. If you take the 2.5% result, I get 8.25 million. Add in the fact that normal medical care (for heart disease, stroke, accidents, regular flu, etc.) would essentially be unavailable as the medical system collapses, and things get really bad.

(a) Can the economy survive anything like that? Hell no.
(b) If something like this started to happen, would people stay at work and soldier on, as they saw their co-workers and customers and relatives thinning out like that? Same answer: hell no.

I don't believe the worst-case scenarios are going to happen. For one thing, people are just not going to be so foolish that they don't change their behavior as they see it is not working, and leaders won't be that foolish either. For another, these simplified assumptions only give hypothetical outlines of the possible result. Reality will be different. But reality is already pretty bad in a lot of places.

PS, older people are more at risk, but a lot of patients in the 30 - 50 year old range are hospitalized too. 38% are under 55, and 20.8% are 20 - 44. (Link https://www.healthline.com/health-news/covid-19-isnt-just-dangerous-for-older-adults )

Thanks for putting this out. It is important to understand possible magnitudes of problems when you try to solve them.

Bob.

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