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The Tax Thread
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The Tax Thread

  #121 (permalink)
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BlackSwan04 View Post
Awesome. That's perfect!
Yeah I've been doing research off and on about it and it seems like the fact that no one ever mentions paying foreign taxes, or that I don't need a foreign tax ID number to trade it, implied I would only owe domestically. Thanks for the (non CPA, unofficial ) confirmation.
Btw, Which eurex products do you trade? I'm looking at swing trading FGBS.
Cheers!

I have not started trading it yet but I have a goal.
To wake in Spain or Portugal, trade the euro Am session then trade the USA Am session then go get some dinner at a nice cafe. I have been researching this for about a year. ( you are right I am not a CPA)
I figured since the trading is taking place in the USA and I plan on spending some time here in the USA anyway. I would just pay the USA taxes and live overseas using credit/debt cards.
Thanks to the new USA laws it hard to open bank accounts overseas if not impossible; being an American I can't open a bank account there, how would I pay their taxes there?
LD

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  #122 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
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lawdam View Post
I have not started trading it yet but I have a goal.
To wake in Spain or Portugal, trade the euro Am session then trade the USA Am session then go get some dinner at a nice cafe. I have been researching this for about a year. ( you are right I am not a CPA)
I figured since the trading is taking place in the USA and I plan on spending some time here in the USA anyway. I would just pay the USA taxes and live overseas using credit/debt cards.
Thanks to the new USA laws it hard to open bank accounts overseas if not impossible; being an American I can't open a bank account there, how would I pay their taxes there?
LD

Apologies. My comments regarding "non CPA, unofficial" were meant to head off any "this is not official tax advice, please consult a tax professional, etc." comments, not to cast doubt on your information or credentials.
That sounds like a great plan. I have often thought of living abroad, but I'm not sure I could swing it with my familial obligations. I figured I'd cross that bridge when I can afford it. For now I'm just looking for a good, small scale, swing trading vehicle and FGBS seems to trend pretty nicely.
Good luck in your endeavors and thanks again!

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  #123 (permalink)
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lawdam View Post
Wirechild Thanks for the help.
I would like to see it can you email it to me
cassadaga at hotmail.com

Put something in the subject so I find it in my junk file
Many thanks
Lawrence

Just saw your reply. I sent it to you via a PM here on futures.io (formerly BMT).

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  #124 (permalink)
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wirechild View Post
Just saw your reply. I sent it to you via a PM here on futures.io (formerly BMT).

Wirechild I would have to be an Elite member to open attachment and responded to PM.
Down the road I maybe but right now I am just looking around.
Nice to meet a real trader Ld

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  #125 (permalink)
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BlackSwan04 View Post
Apologies. My comments regarding "non CPA, unofficial" were meant to head off any "this is not official tax advice, please consult a tax professional, etc." comments, not to cast doubt on your information or credentials.
That sounds like a great plan. I have often thought of living abroad, but I'm not sure I could swing it with my familial obligations. I figured I'd cross that bridge when I can afford it. For now I'm just looking for a good, small scale, swing trading vehicle and FGBS seems to trend pretty nicely.
Good luck in your endeavors and thanks again!

No Apologies needed. I look in to FGBS thanks
LD

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  #126 (permalink)
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lawdam View Post
Wirechild I would have to be an Elite member to open attachment and responded to PM.
Down the road I maybe but right now I am just looking around.
Nice to meet a real trader Ld

Ahh, I didn't realize you had to be elite to open the attachments:-( Ok, I can email it to you tonight.

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  #127 (permalink)
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BlackSwan04 View Post
That's good info. I've been thinking about Eurex futures lately.
The one question I have though is if I trade Eurex futures, do I only owe US taxes, or would their be EU tax liabilities as well? (I'm a US citizen, trading on US soil, from a US broker.)
If you have any info, I'd appreciate it.
Thanks!

In general, you pay in both country (USA & the country you made the money). See Tax Topics - Topic 856 Foreign Tax Credit for Foreign Tax Credit.

However, USA and Germany have a tax convention to avoid double taxation: See http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-trty/germany.pdf
Usually in these agreements immovable property gain are payed in the country the property is located, while movable are not, which is the case here - See chapter 13 - Section5:
5. Gains from the alienation of any property other than that referred to in the preceding paragraphs
shall be taxable only in the Contracting State of which the alienator is a resident.


Note that if you open a bank/brokerage account outside the US. You might need to fill up either or both (depending on amount of $$$$ in accounts):
- Form 8938, Statement of Specified Foreign Financial Assets http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8938.pdf (with 1040)
- TD F 90 - 22.1 Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts TD F 90-22.1 Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts (Due in June I think)

Some other open issues that needs to be looked into:
1/ Tax withholding. Are any gain automatically withhold in Germany? If yes (see this for dividend for example Refund Of German Withholding Taxes – Good News For Foreign Investors - Tax - Germany) then might need to fill up German forms to get this money back somehow (because don't own tax in Germany).

2/ Even if don't own tax, there might be some reporting requirement (no idea there) to be done with tax man in Germany....

If anyone knows about (1) or (2), please post!

Disclaimer: I'm not a tax advisor and the above is not advice but general information on the subject.

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  #128 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
Boise Idaho/US
 
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Posts: 50 since Mar 2012
Thanks: 63 given, 60 received


marcopolo1 View Post
In general, you pay in both country (USA & the country you made the money). See Tax Topics - Topic 856 Foreign Tax Credit for Foreign Tax Credit.

However, USA and Germany have a tax convention to avoid double taxation: See http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-trty/germany.pdf
Usually in these agreements immovable property gain are payed in the country the property is located, while movable are not, which is the case here - See chapter 13 - Section5:
5. Gains from the alienation of any property other than that referred to in the preceding paragraphs
shall be taxable only in the Contracting State of which the alienator is a resident.


Note that if you open a bank/brokerage account outside the US. You might need to fill up either or both (depending on amount of $$$$ in accounts):
- Form 8938, Statement of Specified Foreign Financial Assets http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8938.pdf (with 1040)
- TD F 90 - 22.1 Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts TD F 90-22.1 Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts (Due in June I think)

Some other open issues that needs to be looked into:
1/ Tax withholding. Are any gain automatically withhold in Germany? If yes (see this for dividend for example Refund Of German Withholding Taxes – Good News For Foreign Investors - Tax - Germany) then might need to fill up German forms to get this money back somehow (because don't own tax in Germany).

2/ Even if don't own tax, there might be some reporting requirement (no idea there) to be done with tax man in Germany....

If anyone knows about (1) or (2), please post!

Disclaimer: I'm not a tax advisor and the above is not advice but general information on the subject.

Yeah I looked into the foreign tax credit issues along with the tax treaties. But what seems to be the crux is whether or not taxes would be due in Germany at all (which if not, would make the FTC and treaty issues moot).
Since I would be trading from a US broker, with a US account, while residing in the US, and I don't have a German taxpayer ID number, it seems there would be no German tax burden. But I haven't found any conclusive documents to support it. And the only two discussion forum posts I found on the subject (one by lawdam, and another on a different site) indicate that there would be no foreign tax obligation.
At this point it seems like the extreme lack of evidence to support the argument for a German tax burden is supportive of the argument against there being a German tax burden. Or maybe my Google-Fu is weak, and I'm missing something obvious.
@lawdam, did you ever come across any official documents or anything regarding US traders owing foreign taxes on Eurex products? Or was it more of a deductive conclusion that you came to?
Thanks!

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  #129 (permalink)
Elite Member
columbus OH/USA
 
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marcopolo1's Avatar
 
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BlackSwan04 View Post
Yeah I looked into the foreign tax credit issues along with the tax treaties. But what seems to be the crux is whether or not taxes would be due in Germany at all (which if not, would make the FTC and treaty issues moot).
Since I would be trading from a US broker, with a US account, while residing in the US, and I don't have a German taxpayer ID number, it seems there would be no German tax burden. But I haven't found any conclusive documents to support it. And the only two discussion forum posts I found on the subject (one by lawdam, and another on a different site) indicate that there would be no foreign tax obligation.
At this point it seems like the extreme lack of evidence to support the argument for a German tax burden is supportive of the argument against there being a German tax burden. Or maybe my Google-Fu is weak, and I'm missing something obvious.
@lawdam, did you ever come across any official documents or anything regarding US traders owing foreign taxes on Eurex products? Or was it more of a deductive conclusion that you came to?
Thanks!

It's all there directly from the IRS, can't found more evidence than that : http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-trty/germany.pdf

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  #130 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Orlando+Florida/USA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: YM
 
Posts: 8 since Nov 2013
Thanks: 8 given, 2 received



BlackSwan04 View Post
Yeah I looked into the foreign tax credit issues along with the tax treaties. But what seems to be the crux is whether or not taxes would be due in Germany at all (which if not, would make the FTC and treaty issues moot).
Since I would be trading from a US broker, with a US account, while residing in the US, and I don't have a German taxpayer ID number, it seems there would be no German tax burden. But I haven't found any conclusive documents to support it. And the only two discussion forum posts I found on the subject (one by lawdam, and another on a different site) indicate that there would be no foreign tax obligation.
At this point it seems like the extreme lack of evidence to support the argument for a German tax burden is supportive of the argument against there being a German tax burden. Or maybe my Google-Fu is weak, and I'm missing something obvious.
@lawdam, did you ever come across any official documents or anything regarding US traders owing foreign taxes on Eurex products? Or was it more of a deductive conclusion that you came to?
Thanks!

It's late but here is a quick answer. I called my broker last year and his answer was they file a 1099-b with the IRS no one else. I would say call your broker and get it from the horses mouth.

Years ago I traded on the Canadian stock exchange, stock etc.. when a dividend got paid to my account they got their before I got mine. Then they changed the laws on oil trusts and I gave it up, they were making more money off me then I was. Hope it helps LD

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