The Tax Thread - Traders Hideout | futures.io
futures.io futures trading


The Tax Thread
Started: by Big Mike Views / Replies:34,361 / 211
Last Reply: Attachments:3

Welcome to futures.io.

Welcome, Guest!

This forum was established to help traders (especially futures traders) by openly sharing indicators, strategies, methods, trading journals and discussing the psychology of trading.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading forums:
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive on our forums.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendor advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in openness and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, it is not something tangible you can download.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.


You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community. It's free and simple, and we will never resell your private information.

-- Big Mike

Reply
 3  
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 

The Tax Thread

  #121 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Orlando+Florida/USA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: YM
 
Posts: 8 since Nov 2013
Thanks: 8 given, 2 received


BlackSwan04 View Post
Awesome. That's perfect!
Yeah I've been doing research off and on about it and it seems like the fact that no one ever mentions paying foreign taxes, or that I don't need a foreign tax ID number to trade it, implied I would only owe domestically. Thanks for the (non CPA, unofficial ) confirmation.
Btw, Which eurex products do you trade? I'm looking at swing trading FGBS.
Cheers!

I have not started trading it yet but I have a goal.
To wake in Spain or Portugal, trade the euro Am session then trade the USA Am session then go get some dinner at a nice cafe. I have been researching this for about a year. ( you are right I am not a CPA)
I figured since the trading is taking place in the USA and I plan on spending some time here in the USA anyway. I would just pay the USA taxes and live overseas using credit/debt cards.
Thanks to the new USA laws it hard to open bank accounts overseas if not impossible; being an American I can't open a bank account there, how would I pay their taxes there?
LD

Reply With Quote
 
  #122 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
Boise Idaho/US
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: Guitar
 
BlackSwan04's Avatar
 
Posts: 50 since Mar 2012
Thanks: 63 given, 60 received


lawdam View Post
I have not started trading it yet but I have a goal.
To wake in Spain or Portugal, trade the euro Am session then trade the USA Am session then go get some dinner at a nice cafe. I have been researching this for about a year. ( you are right I am not a CPA)
I figured since the trading is taking place in the USA and I plan on spending some time here in the USA anyway. I would just pay the USA taxes and live overseas using credit/debt cards.
Thanks to the new USA laws it hard to open bank accounts overseas if not impossible; being an American I can't open a bank account there, how would I pay their taxes there?
LD

Apologies. My comments regarding "non CPA, unofficial" were meant to head off any "this is not official tax advice, please consult a tax professional, etc." comments, not to cast doubt on your information or credentials.
That sounds like a great plan. I have often thought of living abroad, but I'm not sure I could swing it with my familial obligations. I figured I'd cross that bridge when I can afford it. For now I'm just looking for a good, small scale, swing trading vehicle and FGBS seems to trend pretty nicely.
Good luck in your endeavors and thanks again!

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to BlackSwan04 for this post:
 
  #123 (permalink)
Elite Member
Arkansas
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: IB
Favorite Futures: TF, 6E, 6B
 
Posts: 86 since Jul 2010
Thanks: 192 given, 134 received



lawdam View Post
Wirechild Thanks for the help.
I would like to see it can you email it to me
cassadaga at hotmail.com

Put something in the subject so I find it in my junk file
Many thanks
Lawrence

Just saw your reply. I sent it to you via a PM here on futures.io (formerly BMT).

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to wirechild for this post:
 
  #124 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Orlando+Florida/USA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: YM
 
Posts: 8 since Nov 2013
Thanks: 8 given, 2 received


wirechild View Post
Just saw your reply. I sent it to you via a PM here on futures.io (formerly BMT).

Wirechild I would have to be an Elite member to open attachment and responded to PM.
Down the road I maybe but right now I am just looking around.
Nice to meet a real trader Ld

Reply With Quote
 
  #125 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Orlando+Florida/USA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: YM
 
Posts: 8 since Nov 2013
Thanks: 8 given, 2 received

Futures Edge on FIO

BlackSwan04 View Post
Apologies. My comments regarding "non CPA, unofficial" were meant to head off any "this is not official tax advice, please consult a tax professional, etc." comments, not to cast doubt on your information or credentials.
That sounds like a great plan. I have often thought of living abroad, but I'm not sure I could swing it with my familial obligations. I figured I'd cross that bridge when I can afford it. For now I'm just looking for a good, small scale, swing trading vehicle and FGBS seems to trend pretty nicely.
Good luck in your endeavors and thanks again!

No Apologies needed. I look in to FGBS thanks
LD

Reply With Quote
 
  #126 (permalink)
Elite Member
Arkansas
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: IB
Favorite Futures: TF, 6E, 6B
 
Posts: 86 since Jul 2010
Thanks: 192 given, 134 received


lawdam View Post
Wirechild I would have to be an Elite member to open attachment and responded to PM.
Down the road I maybe but right now I am just looking around.
Nice to meet a real trader Ld

Ahh, I didn't realize you had to be elite to open the attachments:-( Ok, I can email it to you tonight.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to wirechild for this post:
 
  #127 (permalink)
Elite Member
columbus OH/USA
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: TOS
Broker/Data: TOS
Favorite Futures: ES TF NQ, CL NG
 
marcopolo1's Avatar
 
Posts: 180 since Mar 2013
Thanks: 255 given, 238 received


BlackSwan04 View Post
That's good info. I've been thinking about Eurex futures lately.
The one question I have though is if I trade Eurex futures, do I only owe US taxes, or would their be EU tax liabilities as well? (I'm a US citizen, trading on US soil, from a US broker.)
If you have any info, I'd appreciate it.
Thanks!

In general, you pay in both country (USA & the country you made the money). See Tax Topics - Topic 856 Foreign Tax Credit for Foreign Tax Credit.

However, USA and Germany have a tax convention to avoid double taxation: See http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-trty/germany.pdf
Usually in these agreements immovable property gain are payed in the country the property is located, while movable are not, which is the case here - See chapter 13 - Section5:
5. Gains from the alienation of any property other than that referred to in the preceding paragraphs
shall be taxable only in the Contracting State of which the alienator is a resident.


Note that if you open a bank/brokerage account outside the US. You might need to fill up either or both (depending on amount of $$$$ in accounts):
- Form 8938, Statement of Specified Foreign Financial Assets http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8938.pdf (with 1040)
- TD F 90 - 22.1 Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts TD F 90-22.1 Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts (Due in June I think)

Some other open issues that needs to be looked into:
1/ Tax withholding. Are any gain automatically withhold in Germany? If yes (see this for dividend for example Refund Of German Withholding Taxes Good News For Foreign Investors - Tax - Germany) then might need to fill up German forms to get this money back somehow (because don't own tax in Germany).

2/ Even if don't own tax, there might be some reporting requirement (no idea there) to be done with tax man in Germany....

If anyone knows about (1) or (2), please post!

Disclaimer: I'm not a tax advisor and the above is not advice but general information on the subject.

Reply With Quote
 
  #128 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
Boise Idaho/US
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: Guitar
 
BlackSwan04's Avatar
 
Posts: 50 since Mar 2012
Thanks: 63 given, 60 received


marcopolo1 View Post
In general, you pay in both country (USA & the country you made the money). See Tax Topics - Topic 856 Foreign Tax Credit for Foreign Tax Credit.

However, USA and Germany have a tax convention to avoid double taxation: See http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-trty/germany.pdf
Usually in these agreements immovable property gain are payed in the country the property is located, while movable are not, which is the case here - See chapter 13 - Section5:
5. Gains from the alienation of any property other than that referred to in the preceding paragraphs
shall be taxable only in the Contracting State of which the alienator is a resident.


Note that if you open a bank/brokerage account outside the US. You might need to fill up either or both (depending on amount of $$$$ in accounts):
- Form 8938, Statement of Specified Foreign Financial Assets http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8938.pdf (with 1040)
- TD F 90 - 22.1 Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts TD F 90-22.1 Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts (Due in June I think)

Some other open issues that needs to be looked into:
1/ Tax withholding. Are any gain automatically withhold in Germany? If yes (see this for dividend for example Refund Of German Withholding Taxes Good News For Foreign Investors - Tax - Germany) then might need to fill up German forms to get this money back somehow (because don't own tax in Germany).

2/ Even if don't own tax, there might be some reporting requirement (no idea there) to be done with tax man in Germany....

If anyone knows about (1) or (2), please post!

Disclaimer: I'm not a tax advisor and the above is not advice but general information on the subject.

Yeah I looked into the foreign tax credit issues along with the tax treaties. But what seems to be the crux is whether or not taxes would be due in Germany at all (which if not, would make the FTC and treaty issues moot).
Since I would be trading from a US broker, with a US account, while residing in the US, and I don't have a German taxpayer ID number, it seems there would be no German tax burden. But I haven't found any conclusive documents to support it. And the only two discussion forum posts I found on the subject (one by lawdam, and another on a different site) indicate that there would be no foreign tax obligation.
At this point it seems like the extreme lack of evidence to support the argument for a German tax burden is supportive of the argument against there being a German tax burden. Or maybe my Google-Fu is weak, and I'm missing something obvious.
@lawdam, did you ever come across any official documents or anything regarding US traders owing foreign taxes on Eurex products? Or was it more of a deductive conclusion that you came to?
Thanks!

Reply With Quote
 
  #129 (permalink)
Elite Member
columbus OH/USA
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: TOS
Broker/Data: TOS
Favorite Futures: ES TF NQ, CL NG
 
marcopolo1's Avatar
 
Posts: 180 since Mar 2013
Thanks: 255 given, 238 received


BlackSwan04 View Post
Yeah I looked into the foreign tax credit issues along with the tax treaties. But what seems to be the crux is whether or not taxes would be due in Germany at all (which if not, would make the FTC and treaty issues moot).
Since I would be trading from a US broker, with a US account, while residing in the US, and I don't have a German taxpayer ID number, it seems there would be no German tax burden. But I haven't found any conclusive documents to support it. And the only two discussion forum posts I found on the subject (one by lawdam, and another on a different site) indicate that there would be no foreign tax obligation.
At this point it seems like the extreme lack of evidence to support the argument for a German tax burden is supportive of the argument against there being a German tax burden. Or maybe my Google-Fu is weak, and I'm missing something obvious.
@lawdam, did you ever come across any official documents or anything regarding US traders owing foreign taxes on Eurex products? Or was it more of a deductive conclusion that you came to?
Thanks!

It's all there directly from the IRS, can't found more evidence than that : http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-trty/germany.pdf

Reply With Quote
 
  #130 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Orlando+Florida/USA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: YM
 
Posts: 8 since Nov 2013
Thanks: 8 given, 2 received



BlackSwan04 View Post
Yeah I looked into the foreign tax credit issues along with the tax treaties. But what seems to be the crux is whether or not taxes would be due in Germany at all (which if not, would make the FTC and treaty issues moot).
Since I would be trading from a US broker, with a US account, while residing in the US, and I don't have a German taxpayer ID number, it seems there would be no German tax burden. But I haven't found any conclusive documents to support it. And the only two discussion forum posts I found on the subject (one by lawdam, and another on a different site) indicate that there would be no foreign tax obligation.
At this point it seems like the extreme lack of evidence to support the argument for a German tax burden is supportive of the argument against there being a German tax burden. Or maybe my Google-Fu is weak, and I'm missing something obvious.
@lawdam, did you ever come across any official documents or anything regarding US traders owing foreign taxes on Eurex products? Or was it more of a deductive conclusion that you came to?
Thanks!

It's late but here is a quick answer. I called my broker last year and his answer was they file a 1099-b with the IRS no one else. I would say call your broker and get it from the horses mouth.

Years ago I traded on the Canadian stock exchange, stock etc.. when a dividend got paid to my account they got their before I got mine. Then they changed the laws on oil trusts and I gave it up, they were making more money off me then I was. Hope it helps LD

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to lawdam for this post:

Reply



futures.io > > > The Tax Thread

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)

2016 True Edge Awards: Voting is open until Jan 21!

Now
 

An Afternoon with FIO member Massive l

Elite only
 

Anthony Drager: Pulling the trigger with confidence

Elite only
 

Leo Murphy: The Art and Science of Technical Analysis

Elite only
 

FuturesTrader71: Ask Me Anything

Elite only
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A Trading Thread cpi65 Traders Hideout 1 August 12th, 2010 09:53 PM
FF allows the THREAD STARTER to ignore posters so they can NOT post in their thread. TheRumpledOne Off-Topic 2 September 19th, 2009 01:53 AM
Welcome Back Thread ! max-td Traders Hideout 0 June 17th, 2009 02:22 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:07 AM.

no new posts
Page generated 2017-01-19 in 0.17 seconds with 21 queries on phoenix via your IP 54.211.249.219