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What is the single biggest area you need to improve as a trader?
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What is the single biggest area you need to improve as a trader?

  #31 (permalink)
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SMCJB View Post
None of the Above.

I'll re-run this poll in the future, please tell me which options you want to see.

Mike

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  #32 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
Doesn't anyone else find it interesting that "risking too much for account size" is in last place in the polls?

I do find it interesting, but going "meta" (as I always tend to do whenever I see any poll or study)... I can't help but wonder if that's as much a function of those who participate in these forums rather than the typical characteristics of all traders in general.

I admit I've just joined recently and I can recognize a variety of skill levels in the discussions... but one theory might be that by the time one is serious enough to come here and attempt to build a sustainable trading career, they've improved enough at money management such that other trading mechanics have become more critical. Anyone who went in and tried to trade /ES on a $7K account probably blew out some time ago and isn't here to take the poll.

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  #33 (permalink)
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YogaTrading View Post
It was not until I identified the triggers of my human behavior that I began to reduce them..........It is not easy.!!!

If you understand the mental game the brain plays with fear and greed, you realize it's in your head.

What worked for me was identify the triggers, for me there has been two.....one was my "euphoria" feeling, you win 4 or 5 in a row and on the next one you blow it up..you move your stop an let the loser beat you more than if should have.
Why?....... in my case the wins made me over confident........remember we spend time convincing ourselves we have an edge....so it plays against our confidence.....So now every time I have a winner, I say...I am one trade closer to a loser...I have a win rate of 68%...which means 32% lose...so I had to grasp that 1 out of every 3 trades may be a loser an except that an PLAN for it.

The 2nd behavioral issue....I found that my need to be right was a problem....when I would lose, I would chase the loss...why? because we humans hate to be wrong.......now when I have a loser.....I leave the computer for 15 to 20 minutes and go visit my "human behavior" the one that wants to jump in an get the money back...which is a NO NO..I speak to myself about the 32% loss rate which is acceptable, it's OK.....

Recognizing your triggers is the key!!!!! Spend time identifying WHY..you are doing certain things that are detrimental to your trading...

This is me exactly. Thank you for sharing.

For me, at this stage, I believe I get drunk on my own self perceived prowess...and I don't realize I am intoxicated. This drunkenness causes me to get lazy--mentally and emotionally. I get too comfortable.

I then enter a trade a little haphazardly. But here's the critical point: it's not that the entry was necessarily that bad (tho it's not great either), instead, the bigger problem is my failure or inability to manage the trade soberly.

That is, my lethargy and drunkenness affects my ability to discern when is a proper time to exit, whether for a loss or gain. I think so highly of myself that I lazily think I can get away w this or that. My ability to a) be honest with myself on whether I am wrong, b) let go of an "incorrect" premise or bias, and c) manage my fears and greed in general, which comprises a lot of things...are all diminished.

The drunkeness makes me think I am doing the right things when in reality I am not. Self delusion. And I can even take a break for several days after a sustained cycle of gains, but still come back and subconsciously thinking I'm hot s*** and fall into this trap. It seems that no amount of time away sobers the mind. The only thing that sobers the mind is the pain of loss.

I used to think I was being intentionally self sabotaging, but I don't believe I'm being self sabotaging in a traditional sense. I think it is more akin to willful blindness/ignorance, and a love for feeling like the rules do not apply to me....that I am above the rules, that I am different or special. Of course, I know I am not special but I love slipping into that mindset.

My current conclusion is that one part of me is trying to influence the other part (the chimp?) by causing the lesson of pain; it's akin to a self correcting mechanism that functions automatically on it's own to rebalance the ship. And that lesson has to be retaught and retaught bc I'm so blind to my own blindness, and cannot see my delusional hubris. Oedipus?

To me, this is why trading is so deceptively difficult: success may actually beget failure, unlike just about every other area of life. I wonder, will trading be my white whale? At this point, I do not think so.

But, in order for it not to be, I must (among other things) figure a way to be cognizant of my "prowess" drunkenness. Lord that is so hard. That chimp loves getting drunk. I'm not young anymore, yet I fall victim to this hubris.

...in reference to the chimp others have mentioned, for anyone else interested: https://www.amazon.com/dp/039916359X/


Last edited by fivewhy; June 11th, 2019 at 03:32 PM.
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  #34 (permalink)
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I'm not the most experienced trader, but all those problems listed on page 1...I got 'em. My answer was 'misreading the price action'. My reasoning for this was that if you print out a chart at the end of the day and take a look at it, or even study it, the price action signals were there. All the information was there to take the correct trade. If I did not take 'the trade' or entered on the wrong side of the market it is because I did not properly interpret the price action at that time or I missed a critical piece of information. When I look at my losing trades at the end of the day I find that this is often the case. I have a lot to learn about price action.

But sometimes I wonder if fear, FOMO, or some other emotion clouded my judgement enough to make it difficult to read the price action in a productive way.

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  #35 (permalink)
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I think you guys should definitely add Discipline in the list. It includes sticking Risk Management, System and Behavior rules.

Discipline is the rock that I'm facing in my way right now. What keeps me from closing consecutive positive months are a few days (2-3) and working on it to cut it out. Nowadays my lawn is lower but still not done. These 2-3 days, 5 at top are enough to make my month go back to 0 or a bit positive, something near 1/4 monthly goal.

Just started around here. Still getting into the way it works.

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  #36 (permalink)
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Grantx View Post
I think all those options can be categorised under 'not following the plan' and that's why most choose the generic all-encompassing option.

I think that the best way to improve as a trader is to focus on self-development. Get to know yourself. Feel the chimp. It is in that moment of rising panic and frustration when you make your biggest mistakes. Its not the plan that needs improvement, it is the chimp administering it.

I can only echo that and it is what I am currently working on. May have to admit that simplifying my game plan was a good idea because it clears the sky. And that is what I need for not geting emotional. You have to be very clear about what you want to do. I do also self measuring like - was that trade according to my gameplan? That includes entry, management and exit. I often find myself cutting winners short - which is not exactly part of my plan - therefore I also voted for "not following my own rules".

If anybody has some ideas about how to improve ones trading confidence I would appreciate any advice.

Cheers,
Wernersabel

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  #37 (permalink)
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how to adress triggers


YogaTrading View Post
Recognizing your triggers is the key!!!!! Spend time identifying WHY..you are doing certain things that are detrimental to your trading...


Cheers

Hi YogaTrading,

May I ask you to share how you adressed that, in particular finding those triggers? I am kind of an andrenaline junkie too, need to do sports almost every day before I trade, keeps me calm. :-)

I hope you share and appreciate your advice.

Cheers,
Wernersabel

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  #38 (permalink)
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Interesting discussion sharing

Hi

Yes us adrenaline junkies have a rough time.!!!!

"May I ask you to share how you addressed that, in particular finding those triggers? I am kind of an adrenaline junkie too, need to do sports almost every day before I trade, keeps me calm. :-) "

My friend......That is the million dollar question and the answer is not easy or comfortable to find.

send me an email to lawler.kc@gmail.com
I will send you what my daughter gave, she is a complex trauma psychologist, very helpful !!
I now focus on me...not the trade...I set entry, the exit, and the stops...

Then I focus on what my emotional brain is telling me...
when it moves against me...do I have a "pit" feeling in my stomach?? Does the thought of losing bother me?
Recognizing the difference in "intuitive" .....and actual reality.
Our intuitiveness can NOT be replicated to be consistent!!!!

Cheers.......

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  #39 (permalink)
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post feelings


YogaTrading View Post
Hi

My friend......That is the million dollar question and the answer is not easy or comfortable to find.

I will send you what my daughter gave, she is a complex trauma psychologist, very helpful !!

Then I focus on what my emotional brain is telling me...


Cheers.......

Thank you very much for sharing. That stuff really helped. Because I now simply ask myself how I would feel about a certain trade after closing it (post feelings if you want to put it that way), very helpful.

Hope that simple but very important thought will help others too.

Cheers,
Wernersabel

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  #40 (permalink)
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fivewhy View Post
This is me exactly. Thank you for sharing.

For me, at this stage, I believe I get drunk on my own self perceived prowess...and I don't realize I am intoxicated. This drunkenness causes me to get lazy--mentally and emotionally. I get too comfortable.

I then enter a trade a little haphazardly. But here's the critical point: it's not that the entry was necessarily that bad (tho it's not great either), instead, the bigger problem is my failure or inability to manage the trade soberly.

That is, my lethargy and drunkenness affects my ability to discern when is a proper time to exit, whether for a loss or gain. I think so highly of myself that I lazily think I can get away w this or that. My ability to a) be honest with myself on whether I am wrong, b) let go of an "incorrect" premise or bias, and c) manage my fears and greed in general, which comprises a lot of things...are all diminished.

The drunkeness makes me think I am doing the right things when in reality I am not. Self delusion. And I can even take a break for several days after a sustained cycle of gains, but still come back and subconsciously thinking I'm hot s*** and fall into this trap. It seems that no amount of time away sobers the mind. The only thing that sobers the mind is the pain of loss.

I used to think I was being intentionally self sabotaging, but I don't believe I'm being self sabotaging in a traditional sense. I think it is more akin to willful blindness/ignorance, and a love for feeling like the rules do not apply to me....that I am above the rules, that I am different or special. Of course, I know I am not special but I love slipping into that mindset.

My current conclusion is that one part of me is trying to influence the other part (the chimp?) by causing the lesson of pain; it's akin to a self correcting mechanism that functions automatically on it's own to rebalance the ship. And that lesson has to be retaught and retaught bc I'm so blind to my own blindness, and cannot see my delusional hubris. Oedipus?

To me, this is why trading is so deceptively difficult: success may actually beget failure, unlike just about every other area of life. I wonder, will trading be my white whale? At this point, I do not think so.

But, in order for it not to be, I must (among other things) figure a way to be cognizant of my "prowess" drunkenness. Lord that is so hard. That chimp loves getting drunk. I'm not young anymore, yet I fall victim to this hubris.

...in reference to the chimp others have mentioned, for anyone else interested: https://www.amazon.com/dp/039916359X/

So I just wanted to follow up on my prior post, particularly in light of all the valuable stuff shared here.

I have been reading this new book called The Laws of Trading (check Amazon if you want, it's new), and the first "law" it discusses is knowing why you trade.

After thinking about it, I realized that when I get into the state of mind I described in my prior post (quoted above) I am essentially trading to prove that the rules do not apply to me and that I am somehow above the normal everyday fray.

That is, I hit a string of wins and I get cocky and lackadaisical; then I poorly manage a trade and end up losing bigger than I should have.

But I said in my previous post that my lackadaisical management causes the loss. However, after considering what this book says, I see merit in the notion that... really...my purpose for trading changes and my subconscious intent drives me to make the poor decisions.

So what is my subconscious intent? ..to prove that the rules don't apply to me. And guess what, the rules of the market apply to everyone. Which I "know" but don't really know, or so it seems.

The other side of the coin is that this is, very much, a degenerate gambler's way of thinking. So I'm slightly perturbed by this thought/realization, and I'm not yet sure what to make of it or how to process it. Nevertheless, I wanted to share it here bc I think I should and I think it's healthy for me to do so. Vocalizing thoughts (such as in a trading journal!) is generally beneficial.

A few years ago, I said something on this forum about how I traded better when I didn't care if I gained or lost. I think I said this to @Grantx (tho forgive me for tagging you if I am mistaken). That is, I performed better when I had an emotional separation w my trading. But, in situations where I start performing much better than average, I begin losing that emotional separation. I become more emotionally attached to my trading bc I start to believe my gains are a reflection of me. The hard truth is that it's actually probably just probability.

For example, if red comes up on the roulette wheel 57 times in a row, and you bet red every time....are you lucky or are good? You could argue both, but mostly you're just lucky. Yes, you capitalized on a fortunate occurrence (and you deserve some credit for that) but you did nothing to make the wheel turn up red that many times in a row and you really had no way of predicting that result. With the roulette wheel, you're just a passenger who happened to get on the right train at the right time. Try to visualize that and imagine what you'd feel like if that actually happened; you'd feel amazing about yourself. Here's to hoping you know when to get off, too!

... fortunately, in trading, we can have a predictive edge, unlike w the roulette wheel. Well, actually I think my edge comes more in the management of the trade rather than the initial entry. But that's a different discussion.

But for me in my prior post, it's not that I fail to realize when it is time to get off the train. Rather, I want to prove that it does not matter when I get off. I want to prove that I am special and I can get off whenever I want, and that I will still win everything in the process. ...and we all know exactly what the market has to say about that. We all know.

Anyway, I haven't yet finished this book. But it is very well written. The word-for-word diction and sentence structure are righteously constructed. I can't yet vouch for the substance bc I am not finished. It should be read more than once. I paid $18 for it and I find it worth more than that and worth more than the time I spend reading it.

Anyway, next thousand trades. Next thousand trades.


Last edited by fivewhy; June 23rd, 2019 at 12:50 AM.
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