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No more BS- what works and what doesnt.
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No more BS- what works and what doesnt.

  #1 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Manchester
 
Trading Experience: Beginner
Platform: Sierra
Favorite Futures: NQ
 
Posts: 17 since Jun 2018
Thanks: 18 given, 16 received

No more BS- what works and what doesnt.

Hey everyone, first off happy new year! Hope everyoneís 2019 is a blast and profitable

Iíve been in the markets teaching myself for the last 3 years, Iím a big fan and use it daily of orderflow and auction theory.

Iíd love to know and also think a lot of newbies would love to know what the vets or multi year profitable traders opinions on what actually works in trading.

Iíd like to ask the pros/ trading vets to share what they think is BS and what they think actually works in the market ie/ pure tech analysis (s/r, trend lines, PA patterns etc), fundamentals, order flow (tape reading, delta, vol profile, footprints etc), spreads, options (vol trading, hedging etc).

There is so many websites, people on twitter, furus etc all sharing what they use to make $ in trading and they all have different methods from literally basic s/r, to impressive mathematical edges. But as we know there are way more people selling BS to the ignorant and new people on the block and these things get spread around making it even difficult to know what actually works in the markets and what is just pot luck.

Iíve seen on twitter and even here on FIO several people who are legit traders who know their shi* give advice to newbies like Ďgive up now and get a regular job because trading is for pros and the info you need to be truly successful isnít in books, websites etc but taught in trading firmsí ....íTA is bullshit, orderflow is bullshití. And basically Ďthe industry is a scam and youíll only learn in firmsí (obviously paraphrasing but thatís what Iíve seen said from legitimate traders who have been in the game for years and work in firms so obviously Iíd think their words are true).

Thanks again, I hope we get some replies, I think itís an extremely important topic to talk about and to save a lot of people learning the wrong stuff.

GL in 2019 all






Sent using the futures.io mobile app

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  #2 (permalink)
Market Wizard
North Carolina
 
Trading Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader, Tradestation
Favorite Futures: es
 
Posts: 618 since Nov 2011
Thanks: 267 given, 728 received

Everything works and nothing works. I created a list of questions (for myself) that I think will make me more successful and shared it at my blog. If you can answer yes to each of these questions I think you can become more successful.

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  #3 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Columbus OHIO
 
Trading Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: NInjaTrader Brokerage
Favorite Futures: ES, 6E, 6J,
 
MiniP's Avatar
 
Posts: 634 since May 2017
Thanks: 681 given, 1,394 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary


the thing with people selling items online is that a lot of them are actually right what happens is they promise people to make 10k a day and once people get that in there head, the second it doesn't work they scream fraud/scam etc.... but yes there are a lot of shit bags selling stuff.

Now what works for me might not work for you, there a million ways of telling if things are going up or down and everybody thinks that if they copy what joe millionaire is doing they will become joe millionaire jr. Hell you could trade cross overs on a daily chart and still make money if you find your edge. Some guys/gals on here trade order flow and ice bergs and all this off the DOM , if i try to trade a DOM only its like a bull in a china shop so I don't trade it. It's taken me a very long time to figure out what works for me and what doesn't. The reason why some "pros" say that is because they get tired of saying the same stuff to everybody who comes here thinking next year they will own the CME.

Want to be a great trader:
Obsession with trading
Patience
block out anything that is negative in your trading life ( friends.family etc )
figure out what works for YOU maybe you spend 20k on classes but if that one class works for you then the earning potential is unlimited
if you're lucky enough to get a "pro" mentor, pick up everything he/she does

you are trying to do one of the hardest thing in the world, 95% of people don't make it of that 5% about 1% actually make it BIG.

people are going to be harsh as many of us have worked years and years and gave up many things to get where we are so if someone tells you to quit before you start don't take it personally.


-P

"Truth is not what you want it to be; it is what it is, and you must bend to its power or live a lie"-Miyamoto Musashi
Interested in what my setup looks like, take a look below and be sure to press thanks!!!
https://futures.io/traders-hideout/21330-battlestations-show-us-your-trading-desks-83.html#post702046
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  #4 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Columbus OHIO
 
Trading Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: NInjaTrader Brokerage
Favorite Futures: ES, 6E, 6J,
 
MiniP's Avatar
 
Posts: 634 since May 2017
Thanks: 681 given, 1,394 received
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tpredictor View Post
Everything works and nothing works. I created a list of questions (for myself) that I think will make me more successful and shared it at my blog. If you can answer yes to each of these questions I think you can become more successful.

great list btw


-P

"Truth is not what you want it to be; it is what it is, and you must bend to its power or live a lie"-Miyamoto Musashi
Interested in what my setup looks like, take a look below and be sure to press thanks!!!
https://futures.io/traders-hideout/21330-battlestations-show-us-your-trading-desks-83.html#post702046
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  #5 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
Brisbane Queensland Australia
 
Trading Experience: Advanced
Platform: Prorealtime
Favorite Futures: No i dont trade for fun i trade for profit
 
Ozquant's Avatar
 
Posts: 181 since Aug 2017
Thanks: 109 given, 271 received


tpredictor View Post
Everything works and nothing works. I created a list of questions (for myself) that I think will make me more successful and shared it at my blog. If you can answer yes to each of these questions I think you can become more successful.


Not much i can add to whats in your blog , That blog has actually been in my blog bookmarks for quite a while so surprising to see it belongs to a felllow FIO member , great job . As someone who has been at this trading gig for coming into 2 decades in 2019 the best thing ive learnt thats made the largest differennce to my trading is going down the quantitative route . Of course you need to learn the basics in whatever methodology you pursue but getting to the level where you can measure all aspects of trading be that price/ time , orderflow , fundamentals , macro , actual trading stats etc etc . If you can define it accurately , you can measure it and therefore improve it . Excel is a start and a good base to learn coding basics , from there it can lead to higher levels . Key point is if you can find the problems in your trading it becomes easier to isolate said problem and work on solutions to turn problems into assets . Its all about small incremental improvements and this evolution for an elite trader never stops . if you have the passion for what you do you can overcome huge obstacles . If i could do it again i wouldnt even trade in the first 2 years of the learning process , this is where the most emotional capital is spent . Becoming systematic with at least some evidence of an edge goes a long way to becoming successful with the tools to make emotions less toxic to trading . The key is to know what to do before it happens , avoid getting caught in the moment

Howard bandy has it right Design , Test ,Validate

It is a long arduous journey , having a plan goes a long way to reducing the time to consistent profitability and thats not just a trading plan , That plan should include a set of bullet points on what to learn and and what order to tick those bullet points of , clearly you will need to learn price action (insert any trading related skill) before quantifying it

Good luck to all who take this path

Oh and reading Thinking, Fast and Slow: Daniel Kahneman is a must do for anyone starting this journey

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  #6 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Toronto Canada
 
Trading Experience: Advanced
Platform: E-signal
Favorite Futures: All US Exchanges
 
Posts: 39 since Jan 2017
Thanks: 4 given, 81 received

MiniP is right

You're trying to describe an elephant....every trader is blind to some part of it, but has found the part that works for them, so it's not possible to give you the simple answer you are looking for without knowing your personal situation and personality, however MiniP has given the common requirements all traders need. On the plus side the beauty of trading is that it can fit so many life-style choices and personalities.

I'd like to add a couple of things though...in your question you ask for (as most newbies do IMO) the best technical indicators, but that isn't most important factor. Finding a style and market that works for you, your capital level and time constraints is more important. For example, there is no point in discussing intra-day trading if you could be called away from the screen during the day, nor does it matter if you have a proven technical system tested on a years of consistent trading if you are away for vacation/travel thus negating it's statistical validity. And finally no one really considers the importance of money management until they blow up their proven successful system a couple of times.

But here is my bit of advice...start with a very small amount of money, on a small (low margin), low-risk (quiet volatility) contract and risk a very tiny amount of capital on each trade until you find something that works consistently for you, then keep going at the same scale, for a year or two, before scaling conservatively. In my experience good trading that is consistently profitable can be a boring war of attrition, which means it's hard disciplined work catching small moves and giving up big ones. So called "exciting" trading in which you catch a big move with huge size comes later from consistently applying a low-risk approach, building capital, and being lucky on the timing with excess capital that you have conserved through rough periods. Money management is important, because it converts a Wild-West fantasy into a business (which is a risk management practice not enough so called "professional" hedge funds focus on either IMO).

These are what I consider to be the most salient issues I have learned the hard way over many years of trial and error.

I hope this helps...good luck.

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  #7 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Chicago, IL
 
Trading Experience: None
Platform: NT8,NT7,TWS,FOREX.COM app
Broker/Data: InteractiveBrokers, NinjaTrader Brokerage FOREX.COM, IQFeed
Favorite Futures: The one I'm creating in the present....ES, ZF, ZN, ZB, FX pairs
 
Blash's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,857 since Nov 2011
Thanks: 5,666 given, 3,214 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary

You want to hear what works with zero BS.... here goes.....

A boat load of cash.

Guys with tiny accounts use tiny stops and get stopped on wiggles rarely able to stay in for the trade to develop.

How many stop outs before you are out of business? Cleverest edge still has random sequence of trades that work and donít.

Question is: can you execute said plan perfectly. Most worry solely about how/when to enter and what should signal it. They are working way to much on the wrong piece.

Why is it there are trading systems available for purchase? Because the seller knows theyíre selling a dream and the vast majority donít have the resources to execute it. Financially or otherwise, meaning psychologically.

How many short guys in the NBA? Every endeavor has its built in advantage. In trading itís account size. In gymnastics itís balance etc.

Happy New Years.

Ron


Sent from my iPhone using futures.io

It is an axiomatic fact that while you meditate you are speaking with your own spirit. In that state of mind you put certain questions to your spirit and the spirit answers: the light breaks forth and the reality is revealed.
The steed of this Valley is pain; and if there be no pain this journey will never end.
Buy Low And Sell High (read left to right or right to left....lol)
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  #8 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Manchester
 
Trading Experience: Beginner
Platform: Sierra
Favorite Futures: NQ
 
Posts: 17 since Jun 2018
Thanks: 18 given, 16 received


MiniP View Post
the thing with people selling items online is that a lot of them are actually right what happens is they promise people to make 10k a day and once people get that in there head, the second it doesn't work they scream fraud/scam etc.... but yes there are a lot of shit bags selling stuff.

Now what works for me might not work for you, there a million ways of telling if things are going up or down and everybody thinks that if they copy what joe millionaire is doing they will become joe millionaire jr. Hell you could trade cross overs on a daily chart and still make money if you find your edge. Some guys/gals on here trade order flow and ice bergs and all this off the DOM , if i try to trade a DOM only its like a bull in a china shop so I don't trade it. It's taken me a very long time to figure out what works for me and what doesn't. The reason why some "pros" say that is because they get tired of saying the same stuff to everybody who comes here thinking next year they will own the CME.

Want to be a great trader:
Obsession with trading
Patience
block out anything that is negative in your trading life ( friends.family etc )
figure out what works for YOU maybe you spend 20k on classes but if that one class works for you then the earning potential is unlimited
if you're lucky enough to get a "pro" mentor, pick up everything he/she does

you are trying to do one of the hardest thing in the world, 95% of people don't make it of that 5% about 1% actually make it BIG.

people are going to be harsh as many of us have worked years and years and gave up many things to get where we are so if someone tells you to quit before you start don't take it personally.


-P

Good points. I agree to it all. Thanks for the reply

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  #9 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Manchester
 
Trading Experience: Beginner
Platform: Sierra
Favorite Futures: NQ
 
Posts: 17 since Jun 2018
Thanks: 18 given, 16 received


Ozquant View Post
Not much i can add to whats in your blog , That blog has actually been in my blog bookmarks for quite a while so surprising to see it belongs to a felllow FIO member , great job . As someone who has been at this trading gig for coming into 2 decades in 2019 the best thing ive learnt thats made the largest differennce to my trading is going down the quantitative route . Of course you need to learn the basics in whatever methodology you pursue but getting to the level where you can measure all aspects of trading be that price/ time , orderflow , fundamentals , macro , actual trading stats etc etc . If you can define it accurately , you can measure it and therefore improve it . Excel is a start and a good base to learn coding basics , from there it can lead to higher levels . Key point is if you can find the problems in your trading it becomes easier to isolate said problem and work on solutions to turn problems into assets . Its all about small incremental improvements and this evolution for an elite trader never stops . if you have the passion for what you do you can overcome huge obstacles . If i could do it again i wouldnt even trade in the first 2 years of the learning process , this is where the most emotional capital is spent . Becoming systematic with at least some evidence of an edge goes a long way to becoming successful with the tools to make emotions less toxic to trading . The key is to know what to do before it happens , avoid getting caught in the moment

Howard bandy has it right Design , Test ,Validate

It is a long arduous journey , having a plan goes a long way to reducing the time to consistent profitability and thats not just a trading plan , That plan should include a set of bullet points on what to learn and and what order to tick those bullet points of , clearly you will need to learn price action (insert any trading related skill) before quantifying it

Good luck to all who take this path

Oh and reading Thinking, Fast and Slow: Daniel Kahneman is a must do for anyone starting this journey


100%, thanks! i've always believed the quantitative route is the best way to trade like you said you can identify areas that arent working anymore and statistically validate parts of the strat compared to discretionary trading where in my opinion it is very difficult to pin point what has changed thats making you lose more.

Thanks OZ

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The following user says Thank You to medj for this post:
 
  #10 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Manchester
 
Trading Experience: Beginner
Platform: Sierra
Favorite Futures: NQ
 
Posts: 17 since Jun 2018
Thanks: 18 given, 16 received



Northernlimit View Post
You're trying to describe an elephant....every trader is blind to some part of it, but has found the part that works for them, so it's not possible to give you the simple answer you are looking for without knowing your personal situation and personality, however MiniP has given the common requirements all traders need. On the plus side the beauty of trading is that it can fit so many life-style choices and personalities.

I'd like to add a couple of things though...in your question you ask for (as most newbies do IMO) the best technical indicators, but that isn't most important factor. Finding a style and market that works for you, your capital level and time constraints is more important. For example, there is no point in discussing intra-day trading if you could be called away from the screen during the day, nor does it matter if you have a proven technical system tested on a years of consistent trading if you are away for vacation/travel thus negating it's statistical validity. And finally no one really considers the importance of money management until they blow up their proven successful system a couple of times.

But here is my bit of advice...start with a very small amount of money, on a small (low margin), low-risk (quiet volatility) contract and risk a very tiny amount of capital on each trade until you find something that works consistently for you, then keep going at the same scale, for a year or two, before scaling conservatively. In my experience good trading that is consistently profitable can be a boring war of attrition, which means it's hard disciplined work catching small moves and giving up big ones. So called "exciting" trading in which you catch a big move with huge size comes later from consistently applying a low-risk approach, building capital, and being lucky on the timing with excess capital that you have conserved through rough periods. Money management is important, because it converts a Wild-West fantasy into a business (which is a risk management practice not enough so called "professional" hedge funds focus on either IMO).

These are what I consider to be the most salient issues I have learned the hard way over many years of trial and error.

I hope this helps...good luck.

#
Thanks a lot NL, great reply.

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