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The importance of staying humble.


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The importance of staying humble.

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  #1 (permalink)
 mzelixon 
Tel Aviv, Israel
 
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So this is gonna be a psychology related post.

Now, we all know that trading is a unique profession.
On one side you can MAKE an obscene amount of money in a very short time...
On the other side you can LOSE an obscene amount of money in the exact same time frame.

My question to the more seasoned traders (or anyone) on here = how important is it to stay humble?

See.. I'm at a point where I'm starting to see some HUGE improvements in my trading profit wise.

On the flip side... I find the most dangerous periods of mine are when I'll make a good amount of money for a day... and then instead of turning off my monitor and walking away i'll try to get more profits.

But when I do this... I realize THE WAY I try to get more profits AFTER a winning trade is sometimes I'll completely lose myself.

I'll start thinking I'm God.
I'll start widening my stops.
I'll start doing EVERY FUCKING THING WRONG IN THE BOOK.

And I KNOW this is the worst thing you could possibly do.

I'm sure MANY OF YOU (pros or amateurs alike) have had this experience or can relate to me so...

Today I had a $960 gain... and ended up wiping out the entire gain like a STUBBORN FUCKING IDIOT with a $1380 loss.

I can't deal with the market (or myself) for today anymore...
This isn't EVEN my first fuck-up like this... you'd think I'd learn !!!!!!!!!!


PS - some of you have told me to make a journal, that might be on the way at this point.

PSS - this might be more of an emotional control thing. I know that my emotions completely got in the way after my winning trade. But either way I've decided to vent for you guys so you're welcome

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  #3 (permalink)
 mzelixon 
Tel Aviv, Israel
 
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I'd like to call this piece of art = self sabotage.

Edit = I'm fuming so much I did the figures a bit wrong - it was a 138 tick loss.

Either way un-fucking-believable (I'm mostly talking to myself on this thread so excuse me)

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  #4 (permalink)
 MiniP 
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mzelixon View Post
I'd like to call this piece of art = self sabotage.

Edit = I'm fuming so much I did the figures a bit wrong - it was a 138 tick loss.

Either way un-fucking-believable (I'm mostly talking to myself on this thread so excuse me)

CL was a Bitch today your not alone... idk the last time it went straight down and then almost straight up like this... very annoying.

-P

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  #5 (permalink)
 TradingOgre 
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mzelixon View Post
I'd like to call this piece of art = self sabotage.

Edit = I'm fuming so much I did the figures a bit wrong - it was a 138 tick loss.

Either way un-fucking-believable (I'm mostly talking to myself on this thread so excuse me)

We have all done it to some level. Shot ourselves in the foot so to speak.

Few questions:

1. Why did you exit the first short position where you did?
2. Why did you enter the second short position where you did?
3. Are you using a stop loss and if you are did you keep moving it hoping price would turn in your favor?

Analyze each trade objectively and figure out what went right and what went wrong. Fix the wrong stuff, celebrate the right stuff.

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  #6 (permalink)
 mzelixon 
Tel Aviv, Israel
 
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TradingOgre View Post
We have all done it to some level. Shot ourselves in the foot so to speak.

Few questions:

1. Why did you exit the first short position where you did?
2. Why did you enter the second short position where you did?
3. Are you using a stop loss and if you are did you keep moving it hoping price would turn in your favor?

Analyze each trade objectively and figure out what went right and what went wrong. Fix the wrong stuff, celebrate the right stuff.

It was an absolutely train wreck man.

1. I set a target for 66.50 because I was suspecting a down day and my technicals were showing a reversal, which I ended being right about. I actually had to leave the house during the last 2 hours of the trade, so it hit my PT while I was away.

2. The second trade.... where things got interesting.
I thought, ok, we've had such a strong down rally I'm POSITIVE it's gonna go down to 65.50 at least (from my short position at 65.80 I saw this as VERY LOW RISK !!!!)


3. I usually utilize a 20-40 (max) tick stop.... this trade was a goddamn train wreck. I ended up widening my stop to such an amount I had never ever done before (no joke this was the biggest loss I've ever taken) after it hit 40 ticks in the red I'm pretty sure my mind went to auto-pilot and threw a hail mary. I thought... come on... it's gotta go back down to at least 66 even. NOPE. I widened my stop all the way up to 67.20 where there was a key S/R level in my eyes which I thought would NEVER get hit. NOPE.

66.20 was supposed to be my max loss which would have ALREADY made it pretty bad from a R:R perspective... I usually go for at least 1:2 . But because it was SUCH a strong downtrend... I thought. Fuck it.

WRONG MOVE.


I'm sure this is one of those classic fuckups where you learn from to NOT WIDEN YOUR STOPS !!!!!!!!!!
Unfortunately, as you see.... only way I can learn sometimes... is the (very hard) way.

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  #7 (permalink)
 mzelixon 
Tel Aviv, Israel
 
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MiniP View Post
CL was a Bitch today your not alone... idk the last time it went straight down and then almost straight up like this... very annoying.

-P

I still love crude.... even when she robs me blind

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  #8 (permalink)
 mzelixon 
Tel Aviv, Israel
 
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And I certainly feel like it.

Although I'm sure it could be worse... and people have lost greater sums than I have.

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  #9 (permalink)
 wldman 
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So, my read of this is that you do not really want a response?

Create a journal.

Dan


mzelixon View Post
So this is gonna be a psychology related post.

Now, we all know that trading is a unique profession.
On one side you can MAKE an obscene amount of money in a very short time...
On the other side you can LOSE an obscene amount of money in the exact same time frame.

My question to the more seasoned traders (or anyone) on here = how important is it to stay humble?

See.. I'm at a point where I'm starting to see some HUGE improvements in my trading profit wise.

On the flip side... I find the most dangerous periods of mine are when I'll make a good amount of money for a day... and then instead of turning off my monitor and walking away i'll try to get more profits.

But when I do this... I realize THE WAY I try to get more profits AFTER a winning trade is sometimes I'll completely lose myself.

I'll start thinking I'm God.
I'll start widening my stops.
I'll start doing EVERY FUCKING THING WRONG IN THE BOOK.

And I KNOW this is the worst thing you could possibly do.

I'm sure MANY OF YOU (pros or amateurs alike) have had this experience or can relate to me so...

Today I had a $960 gain... and ended up wiping out the entire gain like a STUBBORN FUCKING IDIOT with a $1380 loss.

I can't deal with the market (or myself) for today anymore...
This isn't EVEN my first fuck-up like this... you'd think I'd learn !!!!!!!!!!


PS - some of you have told me to make a journal, that might be on the way at this point.

PSS - this might be more of an emotional control thing. I know that my emotions completely got in the way after my winning trade. But either way I've decided to vent for you guys so you're welcome


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  #10 (permalink)
 wldman 
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if this post is something I need to say or if it is something you need to hear. I'll chat it up or forget about it.

It's a mystery to me
We have a greed with which we have agreed
And you think you have to want more than you need
Until you have it all, you won't be free

Society, you're a crazy breed
I hope you're not lonely without me

When you want more than you have, you think you need
And when you think more than you want, your thoughts begin to bleed
I think I need to find a bigger place
Cause when you have more than you think, you need more space

Society, you're a crazy breed
I hope you're not lonely without me
Society, crazy indeed
Hope you're not lonely without me

There's those thinking more or less, less is more
But if less is more, how you keepin score?
Means for every point you make your level drops
Kinda like you're startin' from the top
And you can't do that

Society, you're a crazy breed
I hope you're not lonely without me
Society, crazy indeed
I hope you're not lonely without me
Society, have mercy on me
I hope you're not angry if I disagree
Society, you're crazy indeed
I hope you're not lonely without me


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  #11 (permalink)
 paps 
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i dont know the exact case....so take it for what it is....or ignore it

when once makes enough $s....per ones thinking....they think they are correct. Being correct and making money in trading does not always go hand in hand. You can be wrong and still make money if execution prevails.

when one's thinking is clouded by thinking they may have been technically correct....they may hold onto pos's longer....and widen their stops....thereby violating their own thinking of not moving stops.

the reason to stay humble....as cockiness has it's own rewards(sarcasm)..market will mostly humble any who is cocky. Also when one is not humble....their mental equilibrium may not be calm.

anyways my2cs..... i was L btw on the CL drop....

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 Rrrracer 
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@ paps beat me to it. The market will teach you to be humble if you are able to stay in it long enough to learn the lesson. Also agree with @ wldman, this sort of thing is exactly why you should start a journal. There are so many benefits to doing so...

Personally, I think it's good that you're mad at yourself... get it out of your system, then cut yourself some slack. Make sure you remember this day and how it felt. Everybody who has ever traded has likely done the same exact thing. At some point you have to take your lumps, painful though they may be, it's all part of the process.

And... never move your stops. They are there for a reason, to protect you from these sort of devastating failures and keep you in the game. I used to do it a lot, much to the detriment of my account. This is an older screenshot, but one I like to keep handy as a reminder to follow the plan... which includes stops

It still hurts me to look at it LOL...


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 Blash 
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As far as my own struggles with self, being disciplined, using my emotions as a guide/gauge to market events and focusing completely on money management... the entry being, relatively speaking, of small importance compared to it.... I feel myself slipping away from good trading as profanity abounds. With every unseemly word uttered I know the work needed to polish the filth from the tablet of my heart is great indeed.

Ron


mzelixon View Post
So this is gonna be a psychology related post.

Now, we all know that trading is a unique profession.
On one side you can MAKE an obscene amount of money in a very short time...
On the other side you can LOSE an obscene amount of money in the exact same time frame.

My question to the more seasoned traders (or anyone) on here = how important is it to stay humble?

See.. I'm at a point where I'm starting to see some HUGE improvements in my trading profit wise.

On the flip side... I find the most dangerous periods of mine are when I'll make a good amount of money for a day... and then instead of turning off my monitor and walking away i'll try to get more profits.

But when I do this... I realize THE WAY I try to get more profits AFTER a winning trade is sometimes I'll completely lose myself.

I'll start thinking I'm God.
I'll start widening my stops.
I'll start doing EVERY FUCKING THING WRONG IN THE BOOK.

And I KNOW this is the worst thing you could possibly do.

I'm sure MANY OF YOU (pros or amateurs alike) have had this experience or can relate to me so...

Today I had a $960 gain... and ended up wiping out the entire gain like a STUBBORN FUCKING IDIOT with a $1380 loss.

I can't deal with the market (or myself) for today anymore...
This isn't EVEN my first fuck-up like this... you'd think I'd learn !!!!!!!!!!


PS - some of you have told me to make a journal, that might be on the way at this point.

PSS - this might be more of an emotional control thing. I know that my emotions completely got in the way after my winning trade. But either way I've decided to vent for you guys so you're welcome


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The steed of this Valley is pain; and if there be no pain this journey will never end.
Buy Low And Sell High (read left to right or right to left....lol)
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Ozquant
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I don't believe being Humble is a necessary trait to become an elite trader . Just my :2c

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 wldman 
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@Blash

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 ollie 
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Ozquant View Post
I don't believe being Humble is a necessary trait to become an elite trader . Just my :2c

Pride, Ego and Greed are concerned with being right, acquiring things and makes us artificial.
Humility is concerned with what is right and makes us real.

There is a fine line between confidence and arrogance and that is Humility.

Keep things as simple as possible, but no simplier. Albert Einstein

If you can't explain it to an eight year old it's to complicated
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 wldman 
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the questions and the responses being generated by the thread starter. A "new" guy, here as a guest is provoking us to examine ourselves...at least that is what is happening when I decide if and how I will respond.

Horrible though that the collection of thoughts are spread across a number of random threads...all of which will likely soon be forgotten. Old timers, you know exactly what I mean.

Humility would be good...good enough, or humble enough to start a journal thread. I am not going to divide attention to post in a non centralized place. I'll respond in my thread with a link, so that information can at least be reviewed after these threads and unfortunately, this thread starter are long gone.

So, I think humility was/is the wrong term here. Without a proven, consistent and repeatable track record, what we are talking about is luck. To build consistent profitability, the right word is discipline. Requisite of good discipline is focus.

To illustrate, today I thought it would be a good idea to set up a printer near the desk so that I could send things there as to avoid reading them during productivity time...good discipline to foster increased focus, right?

The open was "slow" for me today, my overall bias was long, the only "signals" or indications I could see where contra bias short trades. While there is a metric to take those, generally they are a lower probability outcome and they have a 1:1 risk/reward context.

I took a questionable entry and proceeded to pull cords and make space for the printer. As a tech imbecile, and true to form the connected printer would not print, yet I still split focus to tend a menial bologna task that should never be considered between 8 am and 11 am.

Split focus is bad discipline. I guess arrogance could be the opposite of humility, but I don't seek arrogance, just like I don't rely on luck. I do though seek laser beam focus and extreme discipline.

Here is an example of lack of focus leading to poor discipline:



28 or 29 to 41...call it 12 handles. So, being a fool does teach humility. But focus as a discipline issue is the reason you make 3 handles on a 1:1 and miss 12 handles.

Copied in my journal thread as well.

Dan

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