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My family says trading isn't work.


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My family says trading isn't work.

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  #1 (permalink)
 mzelixon 
Tel Aviv, Israel
 
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They all think it's gambling and they want me to just straighten out and go work a normal 9-5 job.

Trading is work.
Its fucking work.
Its just online work.

And if thats TOO SMALL FOR YOUR PEA BRAIN TO HANDLE THEN DONT SAY A FUCKING WORD.

Seriously they make me so angry you have no idea.


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  #3 (permalink)
 mzelixon 
Tel Aviv, Israel
 
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Happy Saturday everyone lol

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  #4 (permalink)
 leoventures 
Chicago
 
 
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Your family is nuts. This is one of the hardest jobs in the world. Just keep your chin up and your stops set.

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  #5 (permalink)
 tpredictor 
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I think it is useful understand the differences in trading versus gambling because clarity of thought is very useful in speculation. Trading is actually very similar to gambling in some ways but different in others. It is similar because both involve taking risk but so does entrepreneurship. I think it is more relevant to understand the differences:

1. Most gambling games have known odds. Trades rely on a future state which is always unknown even though some traders are very good at predicting and/or using historical precedent to weight the odds. This is relevant because there is a difference in risking money on a game that is known to be biased against you versus a game that is likely biased against you but might not be at times. It is therefore more apt to call trading speculation because one is speculating about the future.

2. Trading does serve a purpose in making the market more efficient for other investors/traders whereas gamblers are pitted directly against each other. In other words, if you make money trading while you will be taking money from other traders then you will be helping another group of traders or investors. This is a big difference in my mind.

3. Most gambling games have betting limits that make it difficult. While negative bias in the form of slippage does exist, there is much less negative bias for traders at retail size. Traders can basically bet bigger when the odds are in their favor.

Anything that expends energy can be seen as work even playing games. What they actually probably question is whether it is productive. I think it can be as long as you are growing and learning. Perhaps, you might find a way to meet both immediate income and long term goals by picking up some part time work. Good luck with your trading!

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  #6 (permalink)
 TraderTS 
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OMG you should have profit already because I noticed in your profile that you are "Advanced" and trading "CL Crude Oil". So WHY are they still saying that?

I agree with you Trading is WORK. It's 24/7 minus 6 hours of sleep and 30 minutes of naps in-between.
Everyday is a groundhog day for me... Eat, Sleep, Homework, Trade!

Regardless of what they said, it depends on you. Do you still have a passion for trading? If yes, then keep on trading.

Keep smiling!

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  #7 (permalink)
 MiniP 
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I've been in a similar situation where at first I tried to explain this to someone and they couldn't understand that this isn't the exact same thing as gambling because you have an edge and exploit it. Now I'm sure some professional gamblers would say they have an edge and they exploit it... after that conversation ..multiple times. I politely told that person to go fck them selves. It boils down to I know the work I put in and Its hard!

Some people at first said I was gambling but after explaining it in at elementary level they understood and agreed it wasn't the same. I'd try explaining it a little better before you tell people off. It's your life do what makes you happy.

-P

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 TradingOgre 
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They are right, it isn't work.

Work is where someone goes and they pay you just enough so you don't quit and you work just enough so you don't get fired. They give you a few weeks a year off for "vacation" where you can "recover" just enough to tolerate it for another year.

In trading, you are directly rewarded for your efforts. There is no glass ceiling. There are no office politics. There are no racial or gender barriers. You are not confined to a cubicle, office or factory floor. You are free to trade whenever and where ever you want. So, in reality, trading isn't work, it is freedom.

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  #9 (permalink)
 teamtc247 
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mzelixon View Post
They all think it's gambling and they want me to just straighten out and go work a normal 9-5 job.

Trading is work.
Its fucking work.
Its just online work.

And if thats TOO SMALL FOR YOUR PEA BRAIN TO HANDLE THEN DONT SAY A FUCKING WORD.

Seriously they make me so angry you have no idea.


Its sounds like you need a new family, JK. That's why you have FIO(BMT). We can all be family.

Family/friends can be the biggest group of haters.

Most people don't understand trading and would rather put their faith in a broker(dear God no). Or better yet, putting their money in a company they like(dear God no.)

I don't know you or your trading style, but if you have no strategy and you are losing hand over fist, that could be a situation of gambling.

Good luck!


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  #10 (permalink)
 TWDsje   is a Vendor
 
 
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Trading is work, but it is not necessarily a living. The vast majority of people will not be consistently profitable enough to live completely off their trading. When you are just beginning that notion can actually hurt as it's hard to have a clear head when you aren't paying the rent.

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 deaddog 
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mzelixon View Post
They all think it's gambling and they want me to just straighten out and go work a normal 9-5 job.




When you say family are you referring to your wife and kids or your parents and siblings?

"The days when I keep my gratitude higher than my expectations, I have really good days" RW Hubbard
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  #12 (permalink)
 mzelixon 
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deaddog View Post
When you say family are you referring to your wife and kids or your parents and siblings?

No I'm only 27 lol no wife and kids... yet.
I'm talking about my parents/grandparents and my aunt/uncle (who are both engineers btw)

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  #13 (permalink)
 mzelixon 
Tel Aviv, Israel
 
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TradingOgre View Post
They are right, it isn't work.

Work is where someone goes and they pay you just enough so you don't quit and you work just enough so you don't get fired. They give you a few weeks a year off for "vacation" where you can "recover" just enough to tolerate it for another year.

In trading, you are directly rewarded for your efforts. There is no glass ceiling. There are no office politics. There are no racial or gender barriers. You are not confined to a cubicle, office or factory floor. You are free to trade whenever and where ever you want. So, in reality, trading isn't work, it is freedom.

I really like that outlook... (the truth)

The thing is I haven't achieved consistent profitability... yet.
I feel like I'm on the verge though.
So if I start making consistent profits I think they'll simmer down sooner or later.

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 MiniP 
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mzelixon View Post
No I'm only 27 lol no wife and kids... yet.
I'm talking about my parents/grandparents and my aunt/uncle (who are both engineers btw)



watch

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  #15 (permalink)
 mzelixon 
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MiniP View Post


watch

That was pretty awesome man

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 MiniP 
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mzelixon View Post
That was pretty awesome man

Gary V has some amazing material that if you actually sit back and listen to what he is saying it will really help with certain issues. Not to mention the guy is a pure businessman/entrepreneur to heart !


-P

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 dbarno 
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Have the same problem with the neighbors who are farmers. They can't figure out why trade futures and not out buying expensive equipment, dealing with weather, and government price manipulations. Don't even get them started on my having a runway and not crops instead. Tried to get the old man out to see what I was doing. No way would he come out. Point made.

May not be feeding the world, but making a contribution.

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 teamtc247 
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mzelixon View Post
No I'm only 27 lol no wife and kids... yet.
I'm talking about my parents/grandparents and my aunt/uncle (who are both engineers btw)

Perfect time to get your stuff together no kids, no wife. Yeah, they just dont get it, that's okay. They probably stopped dreaming long ago, work towards your dream. You be your own supporter. Let that be your fuel. I started on this journey around 27, 33 now, keep going and keep working towards what you want. Keep going and never quit.

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 Rrrracer 
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At least you're starting when you're 27... I've got at least 20 on ya, buddy Good luck, stay true to yourself and your vision.

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 OMWF 
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mzelixon View Post
They all think it's gambling and they want me to just straighten out and go work a normal 9-5 job.

Trading is work.
Its fucking work.
Its just online work.

And if thats TOO SMALL FOR YOUR PEA BRAIN TO HANDLE THEN DONT SAY A FUCKING WORD.

Seriously they make me so angry you have no idea.


It's work alright, but you might want to read '80000 hours' website to know what will satisfy you ultimately.

Since trading doesn't help anyone, that makes it impossible to be truly satisfying, however you can get around that by giving away 10% of your profits or donating time to charity.

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  #21 (permalink)
johny
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Depends on what your returns are like. If you can make a living from it then it's definitely a job. Otherwise your family is right go get a job while your still young and employable.

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  #22 (permalink)
 Grantx 
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mzelixon View Post
They all think it's gambling and they want me to just straighten out and go work a normal 9-5 job.

Trading is work.
Its fucking work.
Its just online work.

And if thats TOO SMALL FOR YOUR PEA BRAIN TO HANDLE THEN DONT SAY A FUCKING WORD.

Seriously they make me so angry you have no idea.


Out of the billions of people on planet earth that don't give a f*** about your existence, there exist a handful that love you and care for your future. You have just failed your family in a most shameful way.

If you think you can trade then do it without the hissy fit. The market will give you everything you deserve, I promise. But NEVER talk bad about your family like you did with your little rant in the first post. It's a sign of extreme immaturity and a reflection of your own petty insecurities regarding trading.

Go spend some time with them. Hug them, have a laugh, thank them for supporting you, be grateful because they wont be around forever.

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  #23 (permalink)
 ollie 
St. Petersburg, Fl
 
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I live in a house that is paid for, drive a new car that is paid for, go away most weekends, have no debt. This is all a direct result of trading.

When my Father comes over and sees my charts up all he does is shake his head and says if I want to earn money to get a job.

When my parents need to fix there car, need a new pool pump, pay there property tax, fix a leaky roof, etc. they come to me. I am happy to help them, and glad that I am financially stable to do so.

So it is a catch 22 for my Father, I should get a job to earn money, however all the financial help I give them is a direct result of my trading.

In the end it makes no difference what anyone thinks. The only person I need to answer to is me. If I were to take all the advice that people have given me I don't know were I would be today.

As Oprah says follow your Bliss.

Keep things as simple as possible, but no simplier. Albert Einstein

If you can't explain it to an eight year old it's to complicated
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  #24 (permalink)
 paps 
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these decisions typically come from own. ofcourse a decision making mechanism is important...friends///family...teachers..etc etc. but its like i wish to become a Dr....but become a Engr. similar in trading..yes/no?. No

paying bills eom with a job easy....with trading they may not be paid.....so its darn difficult. yes thats reality. so one must prove it to themselves and be real and realistic can this be done. often at times more than anything else what helps is if someone has a job alongside the process in becoming successful or is flushed with money which can be lost during the try out process of becoming a trader.

In trading its not that simple...as you know in the bottom of the heart that there is tremendous risk...chance of failure high...success rate slim. still we wish to become a trader and do it fulltime....yupp but thats a decision one can only make on his/her own with the help of a decision making process/mechanism which is typically family. its not a easy one.

pls excuse me if i said anything wrong....but these r my experiences and thoughts. I dont trade FT.....though i can.

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 tpredictor 
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I would recommend if you do not have a degree and you have the ability then try to get more education in areas that can be useful for your trading or a career (machine learning, computer science, or finance). This way you are creating more outs for yourself to win, either way.

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 deaddog 
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mzelixon View Post
No I'm only 27 lol no wife and kids... yet.
I'm talking about my parents/grandparents and my aunt/uncle (who are both engineers btw)

Are you making a living trading now or are you considering trading as a career?

"The days when I keep my gratitude higher than my expectations, I have really good days" RW Hubbard
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 OMWF 
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deaddog View Post
Are you making a living trading now or are you considering trading as a career?

One person asking questions before making statements.

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Grantx View Post
Out of the billions of people on planet earth that don't give a f*** about your existence, there exist a handful that love you and care for your future. You have just failed your family in a most shameful way.

If you think you can trade then do it without the hissy fit. The market will give you everything you deserve, I promise. But NEVER talk bad about your family like you did with your little rant in the first post. It's a sign of extreme immaturity and a reflection of your own petty insecurities regarding trading.

Go spend some time with them. Hug them, have a laugh, thank them for supporting you, be grateful because they wont be around forever.

There is room for one "Thanks" for each post. But yours deserves a million!

Success is not only measured in your trading/investing skills but a whole value system that encompasses your family, friends, and community.

Matt Z
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Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
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  #29 (permalink)
 mzelixon 
Tel Aviv, Israel
 
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Grantx View Post
Out of the billions of people on planet earth that don't give a f*** about your existence, there exist a handful that love you and care for your future. You have just failed your family in a most shameful way.

If you think you can trade then do it without the hissy fit. The market will give you everything you deserve, I promise. But NEVER talk bad about your family like you did with your little rant in the first post. It's a sign of extreme immaturity and a reflection of your own petty insecurities regarding trading.

Go spend some time with them. Hug them, have a laugh, thank them for supporting you, be grateful because they wont be around forever.

Who are you to talk about my family?
Do you know them?
Do you know my history with them?

Doesn't matter. The reason why I'm so upset is because if I have a DREAM I expect the people closest to me TO SUPPORT ME, NOT TO TELL ME IT'S ALL FANTASIES.

Comprende?

Not saying I don't love them or whatever.
But if being upset that the people closest to you think your goals and ambitions are all pipe dreams...
You think I'm gonna have a positive reaction?

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  #30 (permalink)
 tpredictor 
North Carolina
 
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Well, there is a compromise way to look at things. A job (i.e. type of work) is normally associated with a guaranteed or high probability fixed income stream. Even successful traders, do not qualify under that definition because it is not guaranteed income.

Try to change your perspective slightly. You can still work at your craft even if you aren't trading for a living. Right? So, if you can just slightly alter your dreams to emphasize the work vs. the results you will see that there is the ability to work at your at your craft at every level of success.

Treat this negativity as just information. Right, everyone is extrapolating from limited samples. And there is varying degrees of truth in all opinions.

I do recommend to consider that you try to pare low risk income with your trading income and try to get education that can benefit your trading. Make it your focus to get yourself in a situation where you can work more on your trading. Focus on things you can control. Good luck!

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  #31 (permalink)
 MiniP 
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Grantx View Post
Out of the billions of people on planet earth that don't give a f*** about your existence, there exist a handful that love you and care for your future. You have just failed your family in a most shameful way.

If you think you can trade then do it without the hissy fit. The market will give you everything you deserve, I promise. But NEVER talk bad about your family like you did with your little rant in the first post. It's a sign of extreme immaturity and a reflection of your own petty insecurities regarding trading.

Go spend some time with them. Hug them, have a laugh, thank them for supporting you, be grateful because they wont be around forever.

Not to make assumptions but not everyone's family is that great. Some people have extremely abusive parents/relatives that will never understand where he/she is coming from. Is this the case here? I don't know, but I have encountered people who have to deal with this situation when there dream is to do something else besides what there parents have have been expecting for the past 20 years. This doesn't make anyone a bad person we should all do what we want, and if this is the case I would suggest to keep the trading to your self and try and spend time with your family in a positive way.

BUT.. this isn't your parents dream its YOUR's and you shouldn't expect people to support you. When I stopped trying to force the people closest to me to have my same opinion and dreams things got a lot easier, its not that I think they don't care for me they just see the world differently and I keep some of the information to my self. Its really that simple... and if things get really bad then add some distance.


-P

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  #32 (permalink)
 mzelixon 
Tel Aviv, Israel
 
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Guys,

YOU ALL KNOW how important psychology is in this game.

My biggest issues is when I'm in front of the screen and all I hear in my head is my grandfathers voice saying
"What are you doing? This will never work! You're a gambler! You're sick! You have a disease"

I CANNOT TRADE WITH THIS TYPE OF NEGATIVE SHIT IN MY HEAD OK ?

Call me crazy lol I don't care...
Well. You'd join my grandfather in calling me so.

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  #33 (permalink)
 mzelixon 
Tel Aviv, Israel
 
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I almost feel like my grandfather WANTS ME TO FAIL JUST SO HE CAN SAY "ha! I was right"

Well how about "no? fuck you you're wrong and let me do my thing?"

Something along the lines of that.

I know it seems rude and immature but I haven't been able to convince him otherwise.

The best I can do I think is shut his voice out of my head and let my money do the talking.

Maybe deep down he wants the best for me but it sure as hell doesn't seem that way.

Trading or no trading.

Oh and the fact that I suffer from depression and anxiety on a regular basis doesn't help any of this either.

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 MiniP 
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mzelixon View Post
I almost feel like my grandfather WANTS ME TO FAIL JUST SO HE CAN SAY "ha! I was right"

Well how about "no? fuck you you're wrong and let me do my thing?"

Something along the lines of that.

I know it seems rude and immature but I haven't been able to convince him otherwise.

The best I can do I think is shut his voice out of my head and let my money do the talking.

Maybe deep down he wants the best for me but it sure as hell doesn't seem that way.

Trading or no trading.

Oh and the fact that I suffer from depression and anxiety on a regular basis doesn't help any of this either.


I'm sure lots of people here suffer from anxiety and or depression but YOU need to work to change whats going on, stop expecting your family to support you. Cherish your time with your grand father and hustle in the dark.

Trading is the hardest shit you'll ever do if you let one persons opinion sway or effect you then this might not be your game... everyday people are here to take YOUR money they don't give a shit about what you feel or whats wrong with you... fix your inner self THEN trade your going up against some of the smartest people/algo's in the WORLD. If your not tip top you will have issues, make sure your house ( house is you and where you live) are in order before playing the game.


-P

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 wldman 
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begins to state the direction I was going on this...only in a way more empathetic way.

Work, can obviously mean many things...it is subjective. Sterling results may not change grandpa's mind. What he is right about though is that you will most certainly fail. How you respond to the failures WILL absolutely determine who you become as a trader. Using how you respond to people that love you and want you to do well and live well as a guide does indicate that you are not yet cut out for a "career" built on taking risk in the most competitive environment on Earth.

Amend your thought process or you will break the hearts of people that love you. Learn a little respect. If that sounds foolish to you, like I'm the idiot...please trade ES.


Grantx View Post
Out of the billions of people on planet earth that don't give a f*** about your existence, there exist a handful that love you and care for your future. You have just failed your family in a most shameful way.

If you think you can trade then do it without the hissy fit. The market will give you everything you deserve, I promise. But NEVER talk bad about your family like you did with your little rant in the first post. It's a sign of extreme immaturity and a reflection of your own petty insecurities regarding trading.

Go spend some time with them. Hug them, have a laugh, thank them for supporting you, be grateful because they wont be around forever.


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 mzelixon 
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MiniP View Post
I'm sure lots of people here suffer from anxiety and or depression but YOU need to work to change whats going on, stop expecting your family to support you. Cherish your time with your grand father and hustle in the dark.

Trading is the hardest shit you'll ever do if you let one persons opinion sway or effect you then this might not be your game... everyday people are here to take YOUR money they don't give a shit about what you feel or whats wrong with you... fix your inner self THEN trade your going up against some of the smartest people/algo's in the WORLD. If your not tip top you will have issues, make sure your house ( house is you and where you live) are in order before playing the game.


-P

You know what you're right.
There's no use in blaming my grandfather for having an opinion. That's all it is.
I agree with you that yes... I've been struggling with my inner self for quite some time.
But yes. I suppose ranting about his opinions like an angry school boy isn't the solution.

The solution is just to work on myself and I guess realize that whatever opinions my grandad has are only to help me... in his view anyways.

This is good. Therapeutic almost.

Thanks for at least seeing my side, but also for helping me view the situation in a clearer light.

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 rahulgopi 
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mzelixon View Post
I almost feel like my grandfather WANTS ME TO FAIL JUST SO HE CAN SAY "ha! I was right"

Well how about "no? fuck you you're wrong and let me do my thing?"

Something along the lines of that.

I know it seems rude and immature but I haven't been able to convince him otherwise.

The best I can do I think is shut his voice out of my head and let my money do the talking.

Maybe deep down he wants the best for me but it sure as hell doesn't seem that way.

Trading or no trading.

Oh and the fact that I suffer from depression and anxiety on a regular basis doesn't help any of this either.

You cannot use trading as an endeavor to prove your worth. You may eventually, but proving yourself right or PnL should not be your focus. Instead focus on the process and trading plan. Focus on starting a journal, post your end of day analysis and plan for next day. Focus on developing an edge in the market. Look deeply inside and see the real reason you want to trade. Decide for yourself if you have to get a side job to raise capital. Market will be there, when you are ready. Pickup some form of personal development technique, practice mindfulness , bit of meditation, learn to allow thoughts and feeling pass without causing anxiety and depression.

Trading is the best practical form of personal development technique out there, it exposes all your flaws, unless one is willing to work on it, it will be hard to succeed.

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 MiniP 
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mzelixon View Post
You know what you're right.
There's no use in blaming my grandfather for having an opinion. That's all it is.
I agree with you that yes... I've been struggling with my inner self for quite some time.
But yes. I suppose ranting about his opinions like an angry school boy isn't the solution.

The solution is just to work on myself and I guess realize that whatever opinions my grandad has are only to help me... in his view anyways.

This is good. Therapeutic almost.

Thanks for at least seeing my side, but also for helping me view the situation in a clearer light.

You need to either keep a very honest journal or find a friend/spouse but get that shit out of your head if you don't it will be toxic!

In my excel journal it has very very honest thoughts/feelings on whats going on throughout the day. I don't always share that journal because it is slightly more personal but a public journal will help you a lot. These guys might come off as mean people but the majority will gladly help out if you ask and you put in the work.

-P

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 wldman 
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@mzelixon for not being defensive towards encouragement that comes across a little harsh. That is a good sign for you.

All I wanted to do when I was young was make my dad and my grandpa proud of me. They both died when I was 27. I started in finance as a retail bond salesman 4 years prior. I was hired through the back door and it was very clear that nobody cared...I could leave out that back door anytime I wanted. On my first day I sat in the front seat of the front train car for the trip home because I did not want people to see my crying. I left a job like the one your grandpa wants you to get.

I could have decided that I made a mistake. I could have given up on my dream. I chose, in that hour long commute, that I would never surrender. One error that decision was predicated on was the notion that my dad and my grandpa would be impressed when I made it "big"... at that time the goal was a five digit after tax pay check.

I did like my dad taught me. I was the first guy in, the last guy to leave...every damn day. I identified people who had what I wanted and I tried to learn everything I could from them. The crying was not limited, in fact, oft repeated as I adjusted to 100% commission, zero benefits and zero clients. Duct tape inside my shoes kept the water out. My grandpa told me one day, that since I started flipping his CD's to bonds that he was making 4 times his last "employment" income. He had no idea what or if I was making any money. The thing he could not stop talking about was that I had figured out something that the bank couldn't and that I was helping people like him gain piece of mind. He'd call my mother everyday to say how proud he was and what a good job her and my dad did raising me. Thing is, duct tape was still holding together more than my shoes.

A short time later it was discovered that my dad had cancer. When I'd show up to visit the first thing he'd say is, "Are all of your responsibilities taken care of...shouldn't you be at the office?" Payday came on a Thursday. Checks got issued at 5pm. I was on the 5:17 train to visit him in the hospital with a net paycheck of $11,528. I wanted to thank him...and show him. His room was at the end of the hall. From the elevator I saw that it was dark. Dad had died at about the time that check was placed in my hand.

I stayed swallowed up in my work for 16 years, till my son was born. I overcame attribute to become an achiever. 9/11 through August month end my hit to net liquidation was staggering. It took a few years to regain "walking away" money...but I'm still in the game. The stakes are way lower now, but vocationally I still identify as "trader"

The point: sometimes it takes a while with me...is this. I'd give you every cent in my account and I'd give you every dollar I ever made, ever...to sit at a table with my father and my grandfather for fifteen damn minutes and the chance to tell them how great they were, and how much I love them.

The pursuit of money is a game of fools. When you understand that it is only money and you can always get more of it you will be prepared to take risk. Be open and learn. Expose yourself to everything you can. Retain what is valuable and be prepared to work in earnest to learn and gain extreme discipline. Discard what you cant use and avoid emotional snags that are not specifically productive. Yeah, it's work. The hardest most unglamorous shit you can imagine at times...but with extraordinary effort and some luck, you can master it.

Win the day, even the days where you did not make money...there lay the valuable lessons.

Today, sit with your grandpa, because you can. Seek first to understand, then to be understood.

Dan

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 Rrrracer 
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wldman View Post
The point: sometimes it takes a while with me...is this. I'd give you every cent in my account and I'd give you every dollar I ever made, ever...to sit at a table with my father and my grandfather for fifteen damn minutes and the chance to tell them how great they were, and how much I love them.

Today, sit with your grandpa, because you can. Seek first to understand, then to be understood.

Dan


Dan, having lost loved ones close to me, you ripped my heart out with this one... thank you for the reminder.

Take heed, folks, you can never get them back.

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 mzelixon 
Tel Aviv, Israel
 
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What am I supposed to say to my grandfather when he says trading is PART OF MY MENTAL ILLNESS and that I belong in an INSANE ASYLUM for even thinking I can make a living off it?

What, I still can't call him a fucking twat for that little remark? Please.

I don't give a fuck anymore I'm just doing what I need to do to get this thing off the ground.

But the last thing I'm gonna do is kowtow and say "ohhhh you're so right oh wise old man" when he tells me things like this.

Call it foolish, call it arrogant, call it what you want.

All I know is that it's SO IRRITATING and I can't deal with views like this regarding trading when I have spent 100's of fucking hours working out a trading plan, strategy, screen time, etc.

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 mzelixon 
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I think I'm done with this thread because while half of the people on here are telling me good things the other half are saying I'm an ungrateful little shit who should appreciate the remaining time he has left with his grandfather.

So who knows.

All I know is I'm coming to trading to improve my life, I can't have the people closest to me telling me I'm putting all this hard work and effort in vain.

You guys can tell me whatever you want though lol.
Yeah... good times.

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 wldman 
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Say, I understand grandpa. Can you tell me what it is about that activity or about me personally that you do not believe in? Ask him to share his experiences with you so that you can understand his perspective. Listen to what he says.

If he is rational and knows anything about either subject see if you can discover what conditions or what scenario would need to be true for him to have a different opinion. Consider those things.

Explain to him, not why you think he is wrong, rather what steps you are willing to take to make it. Describe your business plan and what specific actions you are committed to and at what point you would consider altering your path. Be specific with goals and place a time frame on their attainment. Ask for his blessing to follow your dream.

Remove yourself from any type of dependence (financial or otherwise) on the family and follow your plan. Can you do that? If you are committed, you still might never make it. MANY smart and disciplined people don't make it in trading. If you decide to move forward keep in mind that staying in the game may be looking at the market on your break from another job. It may mean working at something else all day long and struggling to get one or two trades in while everyone in your time zone is sleeping or out with friends. Be on the look out and jump like a madman at any opportunity or break you might get. Be relentless in pursuit of your dream. Welcome detractors, love that they care, be patient in affliction (most of the time) and be humble in victory.

I have two pairs of shoes in my closet that are not mine. My grandpa's shoes have holes in the soles...ones that he patched with cardboard and duct tape. Though he died with just under a million bucks, those shoes are testimony to an ethic. Make due, use it up, find a way or go without. The other shoes are the slippers my dad had on when he died. I keep those as a reminder to stay humble...that no matter what I do, it is in large part due to the people that taught me and motivated me. Some shoes are too big to ever be filled.

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 MiniP 
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wldman View Post
Say, I understand grandpa. Can you tell me what it is about that activity or about me personally that you do not believe in? Ask him to share his experiences with you so that you can understand his perspective. Listen to what he says.

If he is rational and knows anything about either subject see if you can discover what conditions or what scenario would need to be true for him to have a different opinion. Consider those things.

Explain to him, not why you think he is wrong, rather what steps you are willing to take to make it. Describe your business plan and what specific actions you are committed to and at what point you would consider altering your path. Be specific with goals and place a time frame on their attainment. Ask for his blessing to follow your dream.

Remove yourself from any type of dependence (financial or otherwise) on the family and follow your plan. Can you do that? If you are committed, you still might never make it. MANY smart and disciplined people don't make it in trading. If you decide to move forward keep in mind that staying in the game may be looking at the market on your break from another job. It may mean working at something else all day long and struggling to get one or two trades in while everyone in your time zone is sleeping or out with friends. Be on the look out and jump like a madman at any opportunity or break you might get. Be relentless in pursuit of your dream. Welcome detractors, love that they care, be patient in affliction (most of the time) and be humble in victory.

I have two pairs of shoes in my closet that are not mine. My grandpa's shoes have holes in the soles...ones that he patched with cardboard and duct tape. Though he died with just under a million bucks, those shoes are testimony to an ethic. Make due, use it up, find a way or go without. The other shoes are the slippers my dad had on when he died. I keep those as a reminder to stay humble...that no matter what I do, it is in large part due to the people that taught me and motivated me. Some shoes are too big to ever be filled.

You are 100% correct, I think in @mzelixon case he needs a few more years to wise up. For those of us who have lost loved who were very close, we have a much different view on things like this.. Once you lose a father/grandfather things are much much different and no matter what we say, some people have to learn the hard way.


-P

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 wldman 
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Hey @MiniP

Yeah man. Here is the thing. There are at least two big issues working in the thread. I chose to connect them consistent with my own experience because they both speak to my view of "what it takes" to trade in a consistent and meaningful way.

Whining over what other people think, even your parents or grandparents, is NOT a hallmark of success. Airing out personal grievances with loved ones in a public forum also is a harbinger of certain disaster in a ultra competitive and possibly high stakes arena.

I was hoping to get a few things across with my posts here. But, with respect to the TS, I have failed. He "is done" with the thread he started, just today, because he is not satisfied with the input that came his way. Rather than accept some introspection and evaluate for remedy...he quit.

So how is that mental state going to jibe around the buoy when a one lot is a single handle against the deposit. It was the market. It was the broker. It is my internet provider. The dog was barking etc.

All this talk of family against it is simply preface justification for failure in a way that offsets the responsibility. Do the work, make the trades. If counting takes longer at the end of each month, nobody alive will object to the endeavor, period...not ever, as long as integrity and social order are maintained.

I wish that guy...and everyone all the best in their trading and their lives.

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 Massive l 
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mzelixon View Post
They all think it's gambling and they want me to just straighten out and go work a normal 9-5 job.

Trading is work.
Its fucking work.
Its just online work.

And if thats TOO SMALL FOR YOUR PEA BRAIN TO HANDLE THEN DONT SAY A FUCKING WORD.

Seriously they make me so angry you have no idea.


If you're making $$$ then who gives a shit? It is gambling though...educated gambling.

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 tturner86 
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MiniP View Post
You are 100% correct, I think in @mzelixon case he needs a few more years to wise up. For those of us who have lost loved who were very close, we have a much different view on things like this.. Once you lose a father/grandfather things are much much different and no matter what we say, some people have to learn the hard way.


-P

You can warn people about the sidewalk, but they will never understand until their face smacks it. Just human nature.

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  #48 (permalink)
 mzelixon 
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wldman View Post
Hey @MiniP

Yeah man. Here is the thing. There are at least two big issues working in the thread. I chose to connect them consistent with my own experience because they both speak to my view of "what it takes" to trade in a consistent and meaningful way.

Whining over what other people think, even your parents or grandparents, is NOT a hallmark of success. Airing out personal grievances with loved ones in a public forum also is a harbinger of certain disaster in a ultra competitive and possibly high stakes arena.

I was hoping to get a few things across with my posts here. But, with respect to the TS, I have failed. He "is done" with the thread he started, just today, because he is not satisfied with the input that came his way. Rather than accept some introspection and evaluate for remedy...he quit.

So how is that mental state going to jibe around the buoy when a one lot is a single handle against the deposit. It was the market. It was the broker. It is my internet provider. The dog was barking etc.

All this talk of family against it is simply preface justification for failure in a way that offsets the responsibility. Do the work, make the trades. If counting takes longer at the end of each month, nobody alive will object to the endeavor, period...not ever, as long as integrity and social order are maintained.

I wish that guy...and everyone all the best in their trading and their lives.

I think I'm honestly agreeing with everything that has been said to me.
I do realize that some of my latest posts (maybe every post I put in this thread) has been emotionally charged ranting.
I'm not going to blame anyone for my success or lack of success in trading... including my family.
I guess I wanted to get a certain point across but... maybe I got caught up in my own ranting.

I do appreciate everyone's responses on here.
It doesn't matter who says what... the bottom line at the end of the day is the trader.
And no, I won't blame my grandfather for anything.

Especially when I blew $2,000 in a week trading crude last month.

So I guess I don't know the exact point of my thread was.
Of all the problems in the world... mine are pretty small and I realize I just used this thread to whine.

But that's not the kind of person I wanna be anyways so I guess I apologize for the ranting/complaining.

I haven't really ever used this site to talk with fellow traders.

But I appreciate your 2 cents because I'm sure I've been wrong about more than one thing in this thread.

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 ollie 
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Keep your thoughts positive because your thoughts become your words.
Keep your words positive as your words become your behavior.
Keep your behavior positive as your behavior becomes your habits.
Keep your habits positive as your habits become your values.
Keep your values positive as your values become your destiny.


Don't let anyone steal your joy and don't let anyone's preconceived ideas be inflected on you.



Mike

Keep things as simple as possible, but no simplier. Albert Einstein

If you can't explain it to an eight year old it's to complicated
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 mzelixon 
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ollie View Post
Keep your thoughts positive because your thoughts become your words.
Keep your words positive as your words become your behavior.
Keep your behavior positive as your behavior becomes your habits.
Keep your habits positive as your habits become your values.
Keep your values positive as your values become your destiny.


Don't let anyone steal your joy and don't let anyone's preconceived ideas be inflected on you.



Mike

This!!!!

Thanks so much

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 wldman 
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@mzelixon

I think you can do it.

Get focused and give it a go. Your responses have, in my opinion, caught the right attention from a great group of supportive guys that will try their best to be a resource for you.

All the best to you...in trading and in life.

Dan

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 Grantx 
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@mzelixon Welcome to the fio family...that was quite an entrance

I respect you for accepting responsibility especially after taking a bit of heat. That's a big step. This process is going to teach you a lot about yourself and it will be messy.

Where to from here? I suggest reading through the various journals (some excellent ones in the elite section so consider becoming a member) and engaging with people by posting your thoughts , asking lots of questions etc. Don't be a lurker, be involved.

We are all in the same boat trying to figure this stuff out.

Good luck. I hope to see you in the forum.

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  #53 (permalink)
 mzelixon 
Tel Aviv, Israel
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Grantx View Post
@mzelixon Welcome to the fio family...that was quite an entrance

I respect you for accepting responsibility especially after taking a bit of heat. That's a big step. This process is going to teach you a lot about yourself and it will be messy.

Where to from here? I suggest reading through the various journals (some excellent ones in the elite section so consider becoming a member) and engaging with people by posting your thoughts , asking lots of questions etc. Don't be a lurker, be involved.

We are all in the same boat trying to figure this stuff out.

Good luck. I hope to see you in the forum.

Yeah it was quite the messy introduction lol, I guess I just needed to vent at first.

I'm in this for the long run trust me... (already been in it for a few years now)

But thanks.

I'm hoping this will be indeed a good place to talk with people about trading because in my own life I have very few people who can relate.

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  #54 (permalink)
 wldman 
Market Wizard
Chicago Illinois USA
 
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suggest @mzelixon ,that you start a journal thread? There is mixed energy in this one, some of which we can all leave behind now, it seems. Describe what your ideas are about method and risk and imagine what is possible. Dan

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 Rrrracer 
Webinar Host
Roamin' the countryside
 
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wldman View Post
suggest @ mzelixon ,that you start a journal thread? There is mixed energy in this one, some of which we can all leave behind now, it seems. Describe what your ideas are about method and risk and imagine what is possible. Dan

I'd say this is an excellent idea.

Your most recent post showed a lot of maturity and humility that seemed missing from the earlier ones @ mzelixon. Totally get the need to vent and how that sort of frustration can blind us. Glad you were able to clear your head and focus on what matters.

If your grandfather doesn't approve, well that's his opinion. Doesn't mean you don't love him, and doesn't mean you're not gonna do what you want anyway... sometimes we just have to agree to disagree and move on. Sounds like you have.

Looking forward to following your future journal

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  #56 (permalink)
 mzelixon 
Tel Aviv, Israel
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Ninjatrader
Trading: ES, CL
 
Posts: 66 since Mar 2014
Thanks: 61 given, 86 received


Grantx View Post
@mzelixon Welcome to the fio family...that was quite an entrance

I respect you for accepting responsibility especially after taking a bit of heat. That's a big step. This process is going to teach you a lot about yourself and it will be messy.

Where to from here? I suggest reading through the various journals (some excellent ones in the elite section so consider becoming a member) and engaging with people by posting your thoughts , asking lots of questions etc. Don't be a lurker, be involved.

We are all in the same boat trying to figure this stuff out.

Good luck. I hope to see you in the forum.


wldman View Post
suggest @mzelixon ,that you start a journal thread? There is mixed energy in this one, some of which we can all leave behind now, it seems. Describe what your ideas are about method and risk and imagine what is possible. Dan


Rrrracer View Post
I'd say this is an excellent idea.

Your most recent post showed a lot of maturity and humility that seemed missing from the earlier ones @ mzelixon. Totally get the need to vent and how that sort of frustration can blind us. Glad you were able to clear your head and focus on what matters.

If your grandfather doesn't approve, well that's his opinion. Doesn't mean you don't love him, and doesn't mean you're not gonna do what you want anyway... sometimes we just have to agree to disagree and move on. Sounds like you have.

Looking forward to following your future journal

Yeah guys....
Appreciate the support.
I dunno if I'm gonna start a journal... yet. But we'll see.
I think this has been a good enough first time thread for me

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 Massive l 
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Portland, OR
 
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Take trading very freaking slow man because as you saw, it's very easy to lose 1000s of dollars in the blink of an eye. Stop with the fantasies of being a full-time trader and start with the actions of a strategy developer / risk minimizer. I've turned into a crap trader many times over 10 years and I've stopped actively trading for several months on end many times too. Each time I took a step back and refined what I was doing I came back better...every single time. Just because I wasn't actively trading doesn't mean I wasn't actively in the markets, studying, coding, backtesting, etc.

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  #58 (permalink)
 suko 
Kyoto, Japan
 
Experience: Intermediate
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I think it's better to say that you are a Pro Gambler and leave it at that.


"Persistence is very important. You should not give up unless you are forced to give up." -- Elon Musk
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  #59 (permalink)
 josh 
Legendary Market Wizard
Georgia, US
 
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mzelixon View Post
They all think it's gambling and they want me to just straighten out and go work a normal 9-5 job.

Trading is work.
Its fucking work.
Its just online work.

And if thats TOO SMALL FOR YOUR PEA BRAIN TO HANDLE THEN DONT SAY A FUCKING WORD.

Seriously they make me so angry you have no idea.


Arguments like this are easy to silence if you show them the paycheck you cut for yourself from your earnings.

If you don't have earnings, then they're absolutely right. It's not "work," at least, not in the sense of the word that everyone means, which implies that you make money from your work. It's a hobby; hobbies can be work too, they just don't pay. I've been in your shoes before too, and know exactly what it feels like when other don't understand what you're doing. But, to be fair, if you're not making money, they have a great point.

Taking time off from trading and earning money the traditional way was the best thing I could have possibly done for my trading. I'm much better at it now than I used to be.

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  #60 (permalink)
 Rrrracer 
Webinar Host
Roamin' the countryside
 
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josh View Post
Taking time off from trading and earning money the traditional way was the best thing I could have possibly done for my trading. I'm much better at it now than I used to be.


Better at what, trading or taking time off trading?

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  #61 (permalink)
 sands 
London + UK
 
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If by work they mean exchanging their whole lives for someone else to profit from their efforts then they're right. But otherwise I'll have to go with trading being work.


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