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Best alternative to NinjaTrader ?
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Created: by Virtuose1 Attachments:0

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Best alternative to NinjaTrader ?

 
Elite Member
Montreal, Qc, Canada
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader 7
Broker/Data: Interactive Brokers/Kinetick
Favorite Futures: ETF
 
Virtuose1's Avatar
 
Posts: 50 since Jun 2011
Thanks: 134 given, 31 received

Best alternative to NinjaTrader ?

After many years using NinjaTrader 7 for my automated day trading (with a Kinetick data feed, trading on Interactive Brokers), I'm seriously thinking about switching all my algos from NT to another platform:
- Their customer service has deteriorated over the years, is now very weak, providing generic and often wrong information
- Their affiliation with Kinetick makes them lousy at implementing basic improvements such as access to the latest IB TWS version (which now has improved Tick data)
- They took forever to launch NT8 yet not sure how stable it is for live trading and the migration path from NT7 remains fairly painful
- Etc

I'd be interested in other traders view on the best alternatives. My two key requirements are the ability to perform Automated Trading and Interface with InteractiveBrokers. Many thanks.

 
 
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Elite Member
knoxville tennessee usa
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: nijia trader
Broker/Data: A.M.P. I.Q. ....C.Q.G.
Favorite Futures: ym
 
Posts: 490 since Mar 2012
Thanks: 96 given, 219 received

x trader


it cost more but it may be worth it, if you are sick of ninja trader. trade station and multi charts are the only others i know of. hope it helps


Last edited by forgiven; July 27th, 2018 at 12:30 AM. Reason: spelling
The following user says Thank You to forgiven for this post:
 
 
Elite Member
Arnhem, The Netherlands
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader, Zorro
Broker/Data: RCG/Continuum, IB, Oanda
Favorite Futures: Futures: FDAX, GC, ES, CL also: FX, CFD, ETF
 
Posts: 16 since Aug 2012
Thanks: 2 given, 11 received

If you are an algo trader you can try Zorro, has a lot of analytical features, but graphically really basic. More for quantish trading. Has IB bridge. For ETF, FX, CFD I have switched from NT7 to IB/Zorro for futures I still trade NT7

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

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Elite Member
Detroit MI/USA
 
Futures Experience: Master
Platform: Tradestation
Favorite Futures: All Futures
 
Posts: 7 since Sep 2017
Thanks: 0 given, 5 received

I've used Tradestation for over 20 years and never seen any reason to change yet. I do not believe any other platform offers as much flexibility and depth of functionality that Tradestation does. I am obviously very biased, so my suggestion is Tradestation. I have numerous totally automated strategies that run using both Tradestation brokerage and then have an API that executes into Interactive Brokers.
Hope you find a suitable platform that assists in your personal trading journey.

All the best.

The following 2 users say Thank You to TraderDoc007 for this post:
 
 
Elite Member
Montreal, Qc, Canada
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader 7
Broker/Data: Interactive Brokers/Kinetick
Favorite Futures: ETF
 
Virtuose1's Avatar
 
Posts: 50 since Jun 2011
Thanks: 134 given, 31 received


TraderDoc007 View Post
I've used Tradestation for over 20 years and never seen any reason to change yet. I do not believe any other platform offers as much flexibility and depth of functionality that Tradestation does. I am obviously very biased, so my suggestion is Tradestation. I have numerous totally automated strategies that run using both Tradestation brokerage and then have an API that executes into Interactive Brokers.
Hope you find a suitable platform that assists in your personal trading journey.

All the best.

Thanks. I'll have a look again but it was not possible for Canadian to open an account with them last time I checked. Do you know if it is possible to use just use their trading platform without opening a broker account with them ?

 
 
Elite Member
Detroit MI/USA
 
Futures Experience: Master
Platform: Tradestation
Favorite Futures: All Futures
 
Posts: 7 since Sep 2017
Thanks: 0 given, 5 received


Virtuose1 View Post
Thanks. I'll have a look again but it was not possible for Canadian to open an account with them last time I checked. Do you know if it is possible to use just use their trading platform without opening a broker account with them ?

I live in Canada and and have had my accounts for years with them. They stopped accepting Canadian accounts a while back when Canada made it too onerous from a reporting perspective. You might still be able to open a futures account with them - I'm not too sure. I know you can't open a stock account. You can use the platform without a brokerage account - I think it's around $250/month - but their support could fill you in on all the details.

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Market Wizard
Sarasota FL
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader, Sierra Chart
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 4,250 since Jan 2013
Thanks: 30,833 given, 13,746 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary


Virtuose1 View Post
After many years using NinjaTrader 7 for my automated day trading (with a Kinetick data feed, trading on Interactive Brokers), I'm seriously thinking about switching all my algos from NT to another platform:
- Their customer service has deteriorated over the years, is now very weak, providing generic and often wrong information
- Their affiliation with Kinetick makes them lousy at implementing basic improvements such as access to the latest IB TWS version (which now has improved Tick data)
- They took forever to launch NT8 yet not sure how stable it is for live trading and the migration path from NT7 remains fairly painful
- Etc

I'd be interested in other traders view on the best alternatives. My two key requirements are the ability to perform Automated Trading and Interface with InteractiveBrokers. Many thanks.

You could take a look at Sierra Chart. I recently moved from NT8 to Sierra and I like it much better.

Pros (for your situation):

- Very stable
- Runs with Interactive Brokers (I'm not on IB, so I don't know the details)
- Does not still need more work in order to be a complete platform, unlike NT (although they do incremental updates frequently to fix problems, and tweak or add features, which I think is a plus)
- Very fast, has a small memory footprint
- Has a very complete programming capability, using C++, which is a close relative of C#, to call the functions of their custom programming interface. Does do automated trading. (I do not do automated trading, just some basic indicators, so I can't comment on it. But I have no reason to think it would not be professional, as the rest of the platform is.)

Cons (for your situation):

- There is a steep learning curve. I thought often that whoever designed the user interface should be slowly strangled.
- Also on the learning curve: whoever wrote their online Help should also be strangled, if he's not the same person.
(You do, slowly, get used to it and get to know where things are and how to do them. Eventually I have come to know most of what I need to know, and where to find it. It is actually very complete and extremely detailed, and both the interface and the web site have started to make sense -- but it has taken time.)
- The programming model is entirely different from NT (of course) and it does take some work to figure out how to do things. This is back to the learning curve again. I have worked as a programmer a good part of my career, and it has taken work for me to get to know it. But, as with the other stuff, I am getting there.
- The attitude of support is that they don't suffer fools lightly. They can be notoriously brusque. However, the only time I had to report an issue, they were professional, got on it immediately and had a fix out in about a day. The occasional interactions I have had regarding business matters were completely businesslike. But I had to tell you about their reputation, which has been earned. They do respond well to real issues and to reasonable, informed questions, but they do not want to hold your hand.

The web site will give you a good idea of what you would be getting into. There's a huge amount of information, but a little hard to figure out at first: Sierra Chart

They offer a free 2-week trial (which I took), and will extend it for another 2 weeks if you ask (which I did also.) There are detailed instructions somewhere on the site on how to connect to IB and to whatever your data source is. Trying it out would tell you whether it would work for you. It costs something like 24 bucks a month, a little more if you want some extra stuff. You can check that out also.

I do like it and I'm glad I changed. You should consider yourself warned about the learning curve, though.

Bob.

The following 6 users say Thank You to bobwest for this post:
 
 
Market Wizard
Sarasota FL
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader, Sierra Chart
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 4,250 since Jan 2013
Thanks: 30,833 given, 13,746 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary

More on Sierra Chart learning curve

This guide looks like it may be helpful for the learning curve issue. Optimus Futures sierra-chart

I have not done more than quickly sample it, but it does look like they are touching on a lot of different areas and seems to be thorough. Your mileage, of course, may vary.

It's prepared by an Introducing Broker (Optimus Futures) that has a number of FCM's that support SC, so it's prepared for their users. (I have no connection with the firm and I am not making an endorsement.)

It may be of help.

Bob.


Last edited by bobwest; July 27th, 2018 at 02:34 PM.
The following 4 users say Thank You to bobwest for this post:
 
 
Elite Member
Montreal, Qc, Canada
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader 7
Broker/Data: Interactive Brokers/Kinetick
Favorite Futures: ETF
 
Virtuose1's Avatar
 
Posts: 50 since Jun 2011
Thanks: 134 given, 31 received



bobwest View Post
You could take a look at Sierra Chart. I recently moved from NT8 to Sierra and I like it much better.



Pros (for your situation):



- Very stable

- Runs with Interactive Brokers (I'm not on IB, so I don't know the details)

- Does not still need more work in order to be a complete platform, unlike NT (although they do incremental updates frequently to fix problems, and tweak or add features, which I think is a plus)

- Very fast, has a small memory footprint

- Has a very complete programming capability, using C++, which is a close relative of C#, to call the functions of their custom programming interface. Does do automated trading. (I do not do automated trading, just some basic indicators, so I can't comment on it. But I have no reason to think it would not be professional, as the rest of the platform is.)



Cons (for your situation):



- There is a steep learning curve. I thought often that whoever designed the user interface should be slowly strangled.

- Also on the learning curve: whoever wrote their online Help should also be strangled, if he's not the same person.

(You do, slowly, get used to it and get to know where things are and how to do them. Eventually I have come to know most of what I need to know, and where to find it. It is actually very complete and extremely detailed, and both the interface and the web site have started to make sense -- but it has taken time.)

- The programming model is entirely different from NT (of course) and it does take some work to figure out how to do things. This is back to the learning curve again. I have worked as a programmer a good part of my career, and it has taken work for me to get to know it. But, as with the other stuff, I am getting there.

- The attitude of support is that they don't suffer fools lightly. They can be notoriously brusque. However, the only time I had to report an issue, they were professional, got on it immediately and had a fix out in about a day. The occasional interactions I have had regarding business matters were completely businesslike. But I had to tell you about their reputation, which has been earned. They do respond well to real issues and to reasonable, informed questions, but they do not want to hold your hand.



The web site will give you a good idea of what you would be getting into. There's a huge amount of information, but a little hard to figure out at first: Sierra Chart



They offer a free 2-week trial (which I took), and will extend it for another 2 weeks if you ask (which I did also.) There are detailed instructions somewhere on the site on how to connect to IB and to whatever your data source is. Trying it out would tell you whether it would work for you. It costs something like 24 bucks a month, a little more if you want some extra stuff. You can check that out also.



I do like it and I'm glad I changed. You should consider yourself warned about the learning curve, though.



Bob.



Many thanks Bob. I did my undergrad in Computer Sciences years ago but Iím a terrible programmer ;-). I managed to learn NT and Iíll definitely have a look at Sierra.


Sent from my iPhone using futures.io

The following user says Thank You to Virtuose1 for this post:

 



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