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scalp the ES mini using fibonacci tool on ninja trader


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scalp the ES mini using fibonacci tool on ninja trader

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  #1 (permalink)
broken8
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Posts: 4 since Apr 2018
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would like to learn how to scalp the ES mini using the Fibonacci retracement tool on my ninja trader. Any thoughts as to who educates , who mentors , who has experience would be appreciated . Thank you .

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  #3 (permalink)
 iantg 
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I can give some insight into scalping the ES generically, this is the space that I play in. If you are talking about scalping, then you are ultimately talking about using limit orders. Limit orders are commonly thought of as a way to protect your price position and break even on your entry, (So your not immediately down 1 tick or more). But the problem is that limit orders will more times than not only fill you if the price moves passed your position (Toxic Fill).

So one area of research that you may need to add to your training would be optimizing your limit order fills, so you are not immediately down 1 tick on the entry of every trade. Being down 1 tick immediately in and of itself may not be detrimental, but often times the very force that fills you also drags you down 2 - 3 ticks straight to your stop loss.

A lot of people have theories about which way the market will move..... T.A, Order Flow, Level 2 predictions, etc. Are any of these able to predict the market? Who is to say.... But even if they were good for 1 to 2 ticks and could be beat the betting line, if you start every trade with a toxic fill then your best case scenario will most likely be just to break even after paying commissions even with making 1 to 2 ticks on your directional prediction.

The point is, that there is quite a bit more to scalping than just predicting price movement. You will need to optimize your order position as well.

I can't offer you much in the way of education / mentoring, but I can share this as a starting point just to get you thinking.

Algo trading also helps, and co-locating also helps as well. In the scalping space these are the tools that you really need in my opinion. If you are going for 5 to 10 ticks, then you can likely trade manually, but if you are trying to capture the spread and do this manually..... This will be quite difficult. Maybe some others that do this manually could point you in the right direction, but I can't conceive of being fast enough myself personally to scalp the ES manually.

Best of luck!

Ian


broken8 View Post
would like to learn how to scalp the ES mini using the Fibonacci retracement tool on my ninja trader. Any thoughts as to who educates , who mentors , who has experience would be appreciated . Thank you .


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  #4 (permalink)
 TheShrike 
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Why have you chosen Fibonacci specifically over any other random tool?

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 Blash 
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broken8 View Post
would like to learn how to scalp the ES mini using the Fibonacci retracement tool on my ninja trader. Any thoughts as to who educates , who mentors , who has experience would be appreciated . Thank you .

The best one IMHO for Fibonacci Trading would be Joe DiNapoli. Do a google search for him.... Amazon and YouTube too.

Scalping for 1 or 2 ticks IMHO is ridiculous. Given enough quality screen time and quality training in this field from good sources (like Joe above, among others) one can learn to capture many more ticks than this....But you have to have the requirements for this business to make it. The resources. Create a network..... nobody makes it in this business completely alone.

You can also check out John Netto's (a student of Joe) book, One Shot One Kill, to learn about Fibonacci Trading.

Ron

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RHT34
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For scalping you probably want to learn the Footprint. Get a good one and practice on that. Anyone other than Valtos. He steals people's money. Many posts about him taking the money and not registering PCs. Any other one would work just fine. But learn on a footprint it'll help your scalp game.

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 teamtc247 
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broken8 View Post
would like to learn how to scalp the ES mini using the Fibonacci retracement tool on my ninja trader. Any thoughts as to who educates , who mentors , who has experience would be appreciated . Thank you .

@broken8

All price drawing tools and indicators are based off of past price action. In my opinion, it would be best to learn how prices moves. Everyone gets caught up on indicators and drawing tools and misses the undelying price action. Indicators are based off price. Scalping is just day trading, in and out. So it's best to have a strategy, and use fib in conjunction with your strategy. There is really not much a course can teach you, fib is pretty basic in my opinion.

Process oriented goals #1.
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  #8 (permalink)
 teamtc247 
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teamtc247 View Post
@broken8

All price drawing tools and indicators are based off of past price action. In my opinion, it would be best to learn how prices moves. Everyone gets caught up on indicators and drawing tools and misses the underlying price action. Indicators are based off price. Scalping is just day trading, in and out. So it's best to have a strategy, and use fib in conjunction with your strategy. There is really not much a course can teach you, fib is pretty basic in my opinion.

Here is an example of what I am talking about, I stopped myself out on my last contract, tightened it up too much.

Use your fib in conjunction with your strategy.

What a lot of traders miss in double bottoms or 2b's(double bottom with a flush) is the two wave within the 2nd leg. There's a strategy for you with your fib retracement. Double bottoms don't only happen at the end of downtrends, and some would call that a two wave(momentum was weaker compared to the previous push that's what helped the trade).

If momo was as strong(the same) or stronger you could have seen 100%, 123.6, or 138.20. Since momo was weaker it found support at channel support, and at 61.8 extension, it also could have been 76.4 too if it were are little stronger. The trade is in the eye of the beholder. Teamtc247's mentor tip for the day, wasn't a one liner. Stick with price.


Process oriented goals #1.
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 Blash 
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broken8 View Post
would like to learn how to scalp the ES mini using the Fibonacci retracement tool on my ninja trader. Any thoughts as to who educates , who mentors , who has experience would be appreciated . Thank you .


teamtc247 View Post
@broken8

All price drawing tools and indicators are based off of past price action. In my opinion, it would be best to learn how prices moves. Everyone gets caught up on indicators and drawing tools and misses the undelying price action. Indicators are based off price. Scalping is just day trading, in and out. So it's best to have a strategy, and use fib in conjunction with your strategy. There is really not much a course can teach you, fib is pretty basic in my opinion.

With respect and in a spirit of helpfulness to @broken8......I beg to deffer with @teamtc247 regarding the last sentence just above.

Perhaps on the surface Fibs seem like no big deal or straightforward but I think there is much more behind the curtain. That being said I really don't use them myself other than 50% retracements as I have a system of levels I create.

I would do a search for Fibonacci Queen in-addition to DiNapoli (Joe began trading in 1967 and is still) as I mentioned earlier.

I am fully aware Fibs have a bad name in many circles...mostly due to the erroneous application from novices.

I have studied them... in the end one has to use that which speaks to you.

Ron

...My calamity is My providence, outwardly it is fire and vengeance, but inwardly it is light and mercy...
The steed of this Valley is pain; and if there be no pain this journey will never end.
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  #10 (permalink)
 teamtc247 
Fairburn, Georgia
 
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Blash View Post
With respect and in a spirit of helpfulness to @broken8......I beg to deffer with @teamtc247 regarding the last sentence just above.

Perhaps on the surface Fibs seem like no big deal or straightforward but I think there is much more behind the curtain. That being said I really don't use them myself other than 50% retracements as I have a system of levels I create.

I would do a search for Fibonacci Queen in-addition to DiNapoli (Joe began trading in 1967 and is still) as I mentioned earlier.

I am fully aware Fibs have a bad name in many circles...mostly due to the erroneous application from novices.

I have studied them... in the end one has to use that which speaks to you.

Ron

It's all good, Ron, we all have different view points.

Most people teaching fib will be pushing Elliot Wave or Harmonic trading patterns.

I have taken a fib course, that's why I made that statement. If you have zero concept of fib, a course would give you the info.

Drawing a retracement from a high to low or a low to a high is not super challenging, or drawing a projection isn't super challenging either. Fibonacci clusters are when they intersect, so I am unsure how much more complicated you think it can be.

Fib, in my opinion, is just an added pro or con, like indicators, that's all they are. Scrape away all the drawing tools and indicators and what do you have? Price. What are indicators formulated off of, price? The only forward indicator, in my opinion, is price, the volume will help, but by the time you see the volume, the price has moved.

We all trade differently. In the spirit of helping @broken8, my intention was for him not to get caught up on years of indicators and drawing tools and miss the underlying price action.

Process oriented goals #1.
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  #11 (permalink)
 chartmojo2 
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Fib's are no magic bullet. 50% retrace zone calc's out better and more consistent. Price moves from confluence to confluence of "signals" because more traders are there and thus more orders, targets, exits, entries..and they are tiered there to get filled and the best fills. Fibs have more "gravity", validity, probability if they are confluencing with other items like prior support/resistance, a trend line, a wave point, vwap, poc, an ma, band, pivot etc. and totally depends on context, the bigger patterns and the time zone that is occurring. Look for the confluences. Each item has its own weighting. Certain combinations of confluencing factors etc have more or less weight or "gravity".
H.Simon in studying Chess Masters found that after thousands of hours they see the the pieces differently than everyone else. Thesis: The same is true in trading. Take the long term view to learn. Then practice like a pro golfer or Chess player. When you are entering the market you are basically paying to compete with Trading Grand Masters. A Grand Chess Master has about 20,000 games committed to memory and and visualizes an entire game before it starts. They are generally thinking 15-20 moves out. T.G.M.'s are doing the same. They recognize price action, patterns, waves, morphs and push them and step in front of them pulling $ out of the market all session long. They know all the common trading knowledge out there and capitalize on it by out maneuvering it. Fortunately the market is massive and they can't be everywhere all the time. They are stealth and don't write books. Study and practice, you will see the market differently over time. Opinions come from traders at different levels seeing the market congruent with their level. Would you pay to pay poker against a pro? Would you pay to play golf against Tiger Woods? Would you pay to play against a Fortnight pro gamer? In the markets you are competing against pro gamer/Chess Master types w heavy tools...lightening fast systems, staffs, a.i.'s, algo's etc. Fibs..they can work if there are enough confluencing factors there to create a critical mass of action. The only way to recognize when that's going to happen is first being able to "see" it. Then you have to be able to execute. Order execution is just as important as being able to "see" the market and gets almost no attention. Order execution should be practiced much as a golf pro puts in the tens of thousands of swings before he's ever in an amateur tournament. The only way around the cognitive biases is if x occurs do x1, if y occurs do y1...its different than predicting. "Imagine different scenarios, take the one that confirms." Bruce Kovner. If it gets near that confluencing fib point...you will do x or y depending on how it reacts there. How big is the buy/sell tier there..and how does price react etc. Learn long and practice. Think of learning to trade like getting a P.H.D. Put in the 10,000 hours it takes to master something. Remember, the ego just wants to be right and have an opinion and it will sabotage you account while being "right". Save your money, take the long view, Learn, practice. It helps to find the markets fascinating. In today's markets, things (patterns, waves) are recognized sooner and pushed then stepped in front of tweaking waves and patterns into bullish/bearish variants and then they morph. the classic look of a pattern or a wave is rare. The waves and pattern forces are there tweaked. Once you see them you can't not see them, they are everywhere and fractal. The kicker is price focus moves thru time frames as traders step in front of traders on a 5 min chart it may go to a 3 min etc..shift up your time frames if you don't see anything, to one where you do, like shifting a stick shift car on a mountain road. Higher time frames tell you what happened, lower tell you whats happening..current very low tells you how its happening. Trade the far right edge. If you learn price action you will know where the orders will be ahead of any flow indicator, you will eventually see just ahead of time what any indicator will show you and they will just be for confirmation after the fact. If you see something, others do to..find where the big audience is. If you know where the big audience will be, get in front of them. Buy lower than the next price, the last price ..and for some zen..the current price..and sell vice versa...( catching the twitch or spike). The point is, it's not just about fibs, or patterns, or trend lines..etc. Take the time to see that its about all of it, confluencing. "A great entry, forgives many sins". I obviously need to cut back on the caffeine.

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