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So what exactly moves the market again?
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So what exactly moves the market again?

  #11 (permalink)
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ClearLog's Avatar
 
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##"Markets move up when their are no sellers left at the ask price##

Something is wrong I think here. If there are no limit sellers (offers sitting above the market price) then there is no way market moves up. On the other hand if at a level there are no aggressive sellers meaning there is no one to sell with market order then there is no way market moves lower. Is there a possibility the statement that you read is meant to repfair to other matter or you didn't understood it well ? Because as you write it... it makes no sense.


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  #12 (permalink)
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ClearLog View Post
##"Markets move up when their are no sellers left at the ask price##
Something is wrong I think here. If there are no limit sellers (offers sitting above the market price) then there is no way market moves up. On the other hand if at a level there are no aggressive sellers meaning there is no one to sell with market order then there is no way market moves lower. Is there a possibility the statement that you read is meant to repfair to other matter or you didn't understood it well ? Because as you write it... it makes no sense.

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Yeah that scenario would be the exception, there is only one way for the market to go in those scenarios.

What do you think otherwise, is it correct or?

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  #13 (permalink)
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##"Markets move up when their are no sellers left at the ask price##

Or this example could be simply mean that if market Is offered at price X and there are 1 limit order siting at the offer then the only way to move the market higher is that 1 market order hits that offer so there are no more limit sellers at the offer now and who ever want to buy with a new market order he will be the one that will move the price higher..

Or maybe if you rephrase the statement as
##"Markets move up when their are no sellers with limit orders left at the ask price X and a buyer is hitting the market order button to hit a limit sell order assuming there is one offered at the next level which is X+1##

No way I simplify better !!


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Last edited by ClearLog; May 12th, 2018 at 07:06 AM.
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  #14 (permalink)
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tpredictor View Post
@Revan
if all the liquidity on a level is cleared then the bid or offer will move

So it seems like the depth is a pretty good tool for speculation, in a way you can actually see the order prints within the depth itself, just inversed and mixed with people pulling/placing their limit orders.

What benefits do you find in reading the order print columns? personal preference? alot of these newer DOMs are super nice with all the order columns but apparently a fair few prop guys made their money on TT X_trader not all that long ago.

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  #15 (permalink)
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@Revan I find being able to read both together to provide superior insight then either in isolation. That is basically why i made my own software and what is shows me. Right, the problem with attempting to just read the depth is that it is very micro scale and it can be faked or simply highly volatile due to changing conditions: the orders cannot be faked but if you don't have the depth you are only seeing part of the picture. Even though the depth can be faked, I find it to be useful too.


Revan View Post
So it seems like the depth is a pretty good tool for speculation, in a way you can actually see the order prints within the depth itself, just inversed and mixed with people pulling/placing their limit orders.

What benefits do you find in reading the order print columns? personal preference? alot of these newer DOMs are super nice with all the order columns but apparently a fair few prop guys made their money on TT X_trader not all that long ago.


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  #16 (permalink)
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Look up a vendor called Jigsaw trading, find their youtube videos and then watch them as they cover the basics in a very understandable fashion, and provide good detail as well.

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  #17 (permalink)
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ClearLog View Post
##"Markets move up when their are no sellers left at the ask price##

Something is wrong I think here. If there are no limit sellers (offers sitting above the market price) then there is no way market moves up. On the other hand if at a level there are no aggressive sellers meaning there is no one to sell with market order then there is no way market moves lower. Is there a possibility the statement that you read is meant to repfair to other matter or you didn't understood it well ? Because as you write it... it makes no sense.


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If there are no bids (limit or market), sellers will move their ask price lower.

If there are no asks (limit or market), buyers will move their bid price higher.

If there are no market orders (bid or ask) and no limit orders that crossed the spread, then the market will stay frozen.

Do correct me if I'm wrong.

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  #18 (permalink)
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Arch View Post
If there are no bids (limit or market), sellers will move their ask price lower.

If there are no asks (limit or market), buyers will move their bid price higher.

If there are no market orders (bid or ask) and no limit orders that crossed the spread, then the market will stay frozen.

Do correct me if I'm wrong.

If I understand well then yes If no bids then limit sellers that sitting on th ask will move their limit orders lower if they want to sell lower

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  #19 (permalink)
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iantg View Post
There are two sides to this.

1. The market order queue (buyers at ask, and sellers at bid)
2. The limit order queue (buyers at bid, sellers at ask)

The market moves up when the ask limit order queue is cleared
The market moves down when the bid limit order queue is cleared

The limit order queues can be cleared for 2 reasons:

1. Transactions occur do to market orders hitting it.
2. Cancels from orders inside the limit queue.

In your example the 101 market order buyers at ask and 100 market order sellers at bid would only play out the way you described if there were exactly 100 limit orders in both the bid and ask queue and no one canceled at all and every market order filled.

The more common case of a price level clearing is a combination of

1. Canceled from inside the limit order queue
2. Additions to a one of the limit orders queue
3. Market orders hitting the limit order queue

So in short market orders are only 1 of 3 factors that can influence if a price level changes.

Hope this helps.

Ian

This and the process of accumulation and distribution.

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